Enabling Change: People, Processes & Tech (ft. Roxane Heaton)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences.

And now, your host, Ed Marx. Welcome to this edition of Digital Voices. It's our international edition, and it's going to be really unique for a number of reasons. And one of them is our guest has initials behind her name that most of us don't have or will probably never have. And it's really the BEM, or British Empire Medal. So Megan, have you ever met anyone with those credentials? I have not. I would love to learn more about them. I know, right? It's, it's pretty exciting. I actually did a little bit of research myself, but I do want to introduce our guest, uh, Rox Heaton. She was awarded the British Empire Medal. We'll talk about that in a little bit. That's pretty exciting. But she's a fellow CIO and also a fellow triathlete. So she races for Great Britain while I race for Team USA. And so we've been at multiple races at the same time. And now at the next one, which I think is— are you headed to—

Ibiza.

Yeah.

Not this year.

Okay.

It's a good race. Yeah.

So I'll catch up with you at the next World Championships. I'm really looking forward to that. We'll talk all about that. You're the CIO of Macmillan Cancer Support, and we're going to go more into that here in a second. That's really how we first met is really online. Then we had all these other commonalities, and so we're like, we need to chat. Rocks the song. That's what I'm about to ask you. The question we ask everyone is, what song is on your playlist? Tell us a little bit about your musical tastes.

Yeah, thanks so much for inviting me. It's great to be here and with you. So, songs on my playlist, I do like something that I can run to, so it needs to have a beat, but definitely something with some uplifting words and something that makes me smile. It's definitely some sort of cheesy chord change is useful, but something that I love and something that I sing at work and encourage my team to think about as well is Heather Small, Proud. What have you done today to make yourself feel proud?

Yeah, yeah, I like that. That's sort of, so that's sort of your like, Your life statement or your motto, things that sort of keep you going. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And is there a particular song you listen to before a race? Like, I have a couple of go-to songs that really pump me up before a race. Or do you have— do you do anything like that, like, as you're getting ready to race?

I talk to the friends. John, I'm sure we'll talk about racing later. So I talk to those around me or look at my bike and think, how am I going to get on and off that thing?

I listen to—

I have a couple Go-to songs.

Yeah. So I usually try to get away before I get back to get ready for the start, and I'll listen to Don't Stop Me Now by Queen. That's been a go-to song for a while. And then I'm a big fan of U2, so sometimes it'll be a song that they did, a little bit more obscure song, but it's called Magnificent. So those are a couple of my go-to songs. Let's talk more about you and yourself personally and professionally. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Yeah. And again, thanks. So I'm over in the UK. And I'm a Kiwi by birth, half Kiwi, half Aussie. So, I'm a bit of an international flavor. And I'm ex-military, so I joined the Royal Navy following an engineering degree. And I spent 12 years in the Royal Navy, and then I worked at Morrison's, which is a UK supermarket, one of the Big 4 in the UK, based up in Yorkshire, beautiful place, lots of hills for training, really handy. And then I joined the civil service, so the public sector, which was fantastic. And we did some great things for users there. And now I'm at Macmillan Cancer Support. So, quite diverse, but the user is at the heart of everything that I've done across digital data and technology.

Yeah. Tell us about the British Empire Medal. I looked it up. I did some research. It's a high honor in your country. Tell us a little bit about that and how that happened.

Well, that's exceptionally kind, and thank you so much. It was a huge shock and massively humbled to be awarded in this year's Queen's Platinum Jubilee Honors List, which came out on her birthday. Empire Medal, which is for services to the community, which to me is really humbling. It's doubly humbling that something that I've done has had an impact on people in the community. So, it was for digital services, services to digital technology during COVID-19, and it was for my work creating better user experiences while I was in the public sector. So, hugely humbled. It's always a team sport, this. So, definitely, those around me have enabled this. But I'm doing a doctorate in digital inclusion. inclusion to improve social mobility, so how we can improve our digital experiences to create better things that more people want to use. So, I thought there was some great dovetailing in there. I used some of the recommendations that I've been working through in my doctorate. And so, I think it's, yeah, it's great. It's had an effect on people. Yeah.

No, it's fascinating. And we don't have anything directly equivalent, but definitely a medal similar to that, a Freedom Medal, And it's only bestowed upon, you know, very people like yourself have done very special things. So big congratulations to you and what you've done for your country and service along with your team, as you mentioned. So that's pretty amazing. Tell us about Macmillan Cancer Support. So for those of us unfamiliar with your organization, what is your mission and how do you work with other healthcare organizations?

It's a really amazing place. So I followed a career that takes me to places that have amazing purposes and what a place. So our mission is to help everyone living with cancer live as fully as they can. It was— we were founded in early 1900s by Douglas Macmillan. He had £1 in his pocket, and he stood for betterness, and we still stand for betterness now. The story of cancer, as we, we all know from, from your sector as well, exactly, exactly the same, isn't it? So the story of cancer is constantly changing. However, the needs of our users are the same, that we just want to be able to treat people and to support people. But the impact of cancer is clearly, is clearly growing, and 1 in 2 people clearly will have cancer by 2030, the stats that we know. And so the number of people people being diagnosed is increasing, but the number of people who are aware or have healthy and normal conversations about cancer, including things like end of life, is not high enough. So cancer is having a huge impact on people's lives. So we need to be able to treat it and survive it and help people on those journeys. So one thing that never changes is the impact of cancer that it can have on your life. So we work with a lot of organisations across the National Health Service, be it either locally in the community, because our health service is very different across the UK and across the 4 nations. And then we also work nationally, making sure that the voice of the people living with cancer is heard, be it through data sharing or trust in the system, all the things that are needed. We also have Macmillan professionals who are embedded within the health service. There are nurses, and we work with startups who are small providers, and we work with our corporate partners as well. But we also know it's really interesting that When we talk to people with cancer, the top 10 things that are on their mind, cancer isn't one of them. It's things like fatigue or worries about finances or worries for their family. So we know that the impact of cancer is much broader than cancer itself. And we need to work even more with more health charities and social charities and across the system to make sure that experiences of those who need services is all joined up. So there's definitely more, more to do.

That is super key. I'm working on a book on patient experience with a colleague of mine from Mayo Clinic. And awesome. Yeah, everything you just shared, super key to having a superior experience despite the circumstance. Tell us about how you leverage technology to serve your members. So you, you talked about working with other organizations, NHS, uh, clearly, and you did mention sort of, uh, the exchange of information. What sort of things do you do from a tech point of view?

So, we've got a lot of things, and as any organization that grows up embryonically, those things may not always talk to each other. So, I love that sort of thing, though. So, technical debt, to me, is, like, a wicked problem. It's really exciting to help solve and help join up things to create better user experiences. So, we've got a lot of things. We've got some amazing phone lines, and people on the phone lines who are experts in finance, unlocking welfare rights, unlocking fund— different funding sources, and just being an ear to listen. So we've got a lot of counsellors, and we also signpost and have good relationships that we hand off to different other services that we, that we partner with. We've got online platforms and a far-reaching website which is really accessible and inclusive and is in lots of different languages. And we enable our colleagues, our volunteers who are so valuable to us, and our Macmillan nurses that I mentioned with data to be able to be better informed. But we know, as mentioned, there's a lot more to do. And we've got some incredible corporate partnerships as well, some of the big healthcare providers such as Boots, which is part of Walgreens Alliance, and some like a big pub brand. And so how can we be in more places where we know our users are? And I know, and I'm so passionate about the opportunities there, about integrating more data and more experiences so we can talk more, and that our users don't need to come to us or don't need to go to one of my my health peers, for example, in the charity sector. As long as they're being served by someone and they're getting the right information and the right support, it doesn't really matter who they come to. It's a lot that we do, but there's definitely more we can do to provide the joint experiences. And it links partly to my doctorate, because we know that we reach 34% of people at the point of diagnosis at Macmillan. Therefore, there's a big percentage there of people that we don't reach. And why is that? Now, is it because they're reaching— they're being met by people around, by different other charities? communities, and that's great and that's fine, but what if they're not? And so my ambition is that we'll be able to understand those communities where they're not harder to reach because they are there already. So we need to be phrasing these things differently and reach them in different ways using data because the opportunities of things like genomics and digital self-management will accelerate. And so we need to enable the confidence and the competence of our colleagues, but also everyone around the UK, and then supporting others around the globe, um, supported and supporting others around the globe to be able to do better and more and more things. And I believe we can only do that through relationships. It's not about money anymore because everything's so expensive. Um, it's definitely about building relationships and sharing ideas.

Yeah, no, I love it. It's, it's amazing work that you all do for your country and definitely to be applauded. So you, you do have this fascinating background, Rox, you know, and, and you, you mentioned some of it earlier, you know, when you were talking about your, your own professional career, you know, everything from the Navy to the civil service to retail and now into healthcare. I wanna talk a little bit more about that. So do, would you recommend a diverse career like that for, for others who are maybe just starting earlier in their career? Should they focus on one specific industry or has it been beneficial for you to have all these multifaceted experiences?

For me, and what I would say to anyone is that just Just do what you love, keep having fun, go somewhere where you feel valued, and that you keep adding value. To me, though, the user will always be at the heart of everything, no matter what sector. I've learned so much from different people inside and outside technology, and also the challenges, and the opportunities, and the frictions that one must overcome in order to be able to better serve the user. Having a different perspective across different sectors definitely has been valuable, and the transferable skills are huge. So, if you're concerned about going to a different sector, just do it.

Yeah. No, I like that. And your point is real about everything is centered around the user in one way or another. And so it's— you can easily transfer all the skills that you learn. Now, I know that you're very active with STEM and diversity opportunities. I know that's part of your passion. Can you share your apprenticeship program and sort of other tools that you use to help people?

Yeah, absolutely. And so I am really passionate, and I know there's absolutely more to do here. I'm quite new into Macmillan, and there's definitely more we need to be doing. with our early talent routes. But I also really recognize that there's no one tool in the toolset, and everyone has a different route in, be it either through growth from early talent, or as a veteran, as an example, myself, retraining, or sports people. That's one that's really important as well. Or prison, if you've been in prison or care, being able to reach different people with different backgrounds is really important in finding new routes. But also, returners to the market after career break. for whatever reason, or, in my— what I find really exciting is retraining as well, from people who want to come into technology, who realize that technology is not just about coding. So, we do have some apprenticeships, but we absolutely need to be doing more in emerging skills, and being able to support more people in more regional areas to be doing this. And also, things like bootcamps. It depends on who we're trying to offer these to, apprenticeships, bootcamps, or other routes, or even just informal learning, and appreciating that no one is a unicorn. So, accepting people and enabling them to have development plans. I'd rather someone— it's an old military phrase, actually— I'd rather have someone sitting around my war room table who had the passion, and you can always grow the skills. So, to me, the person and their ambition is more important than the skills, and we can grow that.

That's a great perspective. I embrace that as well. I love what you're doing, and I think it's sort of almost like an ethical or moral responsibility of all of us as leaders to create that opportunity, especially for some of the groups that you mentioned who may be at a disadvantage and could really benefit from our support. And then it just helps everyone. It helps not just them, but it helps our, your own organization cuz you need the skills and talents of these individuals and, and the broader society. So, so I love it.

I was gonna ask, do you have any top tips? Because it's always such a, such a hard thing for people to start up. Do you have any top tips on things that you've learned?

Yeah. So some things that I've done at several different organizations where I've served is start sort of like an apprenticeship program. And we've usually focused on university kids and/or young adults and created opportunities for them to come into healthcare and get a career. Because sometimes, you know, you go through college, you learn a lot of academics, but you don't necessarily learn the skills. And so we created these opportunities with local universities and then We had apprenticeship programs during their junior and senior year. And when they graduate, if we liked them and they still liked us, you know, we would hire them into these positions and grow them. And oftentimes it would be that, you know, a few years later, you'd do this for multiple years and you'd see this young man or young woman suddenly become this manager and a director and that sort of thing. We also had some experience doing that with military. So I, like you, am a veteran. And so I sort of have a soft spot there. And so I recall hiring a couple of individuals and, and one in particular comes to mind. You know, I met him in Kosovo as I was, uh, doing a civilian mission on behalf of the military. And, um, and I was so impressed with him and he was a plumber, you know, that was his trade. But I was so impressed with him. I was like, he could just help transform healthcare and tech. And he, we hired him and he did. And then he went on to, you know, become, you know, vice president and, and it was a great success story. So that's what I would do. I'd create, create these programs, create these opportunities. And then the last one, you know, that we did at, uh, the Cleveland Clinic is pretty good at this, is working with their neighborhoods. So surrounding the Cleveland Clinic is a very disadvantaged, uh, neighborhood. And so those kids, they, you know, they grew up, um, 100 yards from this great world-class organization. They never really had an opportunity to serve there because they just weren't getting the, the equipping and the opportunity. And so we created a lot of these opportunities. And so there's so many stories now, if you read about those particular programs where And we took some of them into technology as well, but also programs where they took them into the clinical side. And some of them are doctors today, right? So kids that would've never had that opportunity. So there's definitely things you can do, but Rox, as you know, cuz you're doing it, you just have to take the action. And it doesn't have to be this big formal program. It could be one person, but you make a difference in one person's life. You know this, you know, you can help change the world.

Right.

So those are some of the things that, That I did. So, I'm curious about, you know, you're, you're the great, this great, you know, great leader and things are changing all the time. You're working on your doctorate and maybe that's part of your answer, but I was gonna ask, how do you stay current? 'Cause, you know, it's a struggle sometimes. There's so much new things going on. It's hard to stay current. Clearly, continuing your education is one way. Are there any other things that you do to, you know, stay in the know?

Thanks so much. And this is, yeah, I, I, so I'm a serial learner. I love to learn, but I love to informally learn as well. So, I take a lot from my networks, people like you and others, and I love to be challenged. So, be it my personal reflections on what others are saying, or for really open dialogues in my team, because ideas can clearly come from all levels, and I don't have all the answers. So, I really encourage open, constructive conversations across the team and across the organization, to not just keep it in tech as well. So, definitely inside an organization, across networks, and in new spaces. I think the different sectors have really helped with that. I'm still on so many retail press newsletters, but it's really insightful to understand what's happening day by day and what the impacts are being felt by, because those same impacts will roll into my sector very quickly. So, that's quite interesting. Yeah, so, I love my learning. I've actually just submitted my doctorate, so watch out for what's next.

Yeah, Dr. Heaton. Very excited for you. My, my wife recently got her doctorate and, uh, it was a very exciting time.

Congratulations.

In our house for sure. Yeah, those are great tips. So for our listeners, so our listeners are always wondering, you know, because they always look up to people like yourself and they're like, how do I become like a Rox? How do I become, you know, the CIO of particular organizations? And one, one commonality, and, and that's, and you answered, is continuous learning, right? And you, you gave some of the, your sort of, uh, hacks, if you will, you know, your tips for that. So, I don't often get guests that are members of GB Duathlon Triathlon, the country's leading triathletes and duathletes representing their country on the international stage. So, we have to switch the topic now because I know I told you before, it's like Team GB just kills me because I'm always getting outrun on the course by— I might be ahead of them on the bike and then I get on that last run and I get passed up by all these Team GB members. But let's talk about duathlon. So how did you get into the sport and how did you get to Team GB?

Yeah, thanks. And, um, you'd have never expected it, and all my friends say this when, when they speak to me. I was always the one hiding in the locker room trying to avoid PE lessons. But when about 10 years ago I, um, had a friend who— I've got a friend whose young son was diagnosed with terminal brain tumor, and he used to laugh watching me trying to do sport. So me in Lycra made him crack up quite a lot. So I took the challenge to raise some money for a charity that they set up while he was still alive called Find the Wonderful in Every Day, and it was to fund a beach house so that families could get away to spend some time together. And it's still going. Unfortunately, he passed away, but I still wear a green star on my tri suit and have the logo on my bike when it gets really hard. So I— because that was triathlon that I got into, as well. I very quickly learned that I would be finding my bike very easily because I was the last person out of the water, which was great, really handy, but, um, but quite exhausting. And probably swimming was something I needed to go up. I didn't even know about duathlon when I started, so, um, someone recommended it to me. And, um, I definitely do it because I like to eat cake and I like to meet people. I definitely am not going to win any medals.

That's great. It's a very, very similar story to mine. And for our listeners, so triathlon is Swim, bike, run. And duathlon is run, bike, run. So you basically switch out that swim for another run. And I'm the same way, Rox. I would, like, when I was doing Ironman, I would be the last 25% out of the water. And you're right, a lot easier to find your bike amongst thousands of bikes. And then I would finish overall in the top 25%. So I quickly realized, wait, I think I'm pretty decent at a bike and run. It's the swimming that's like an anchor. And I took so many lessons and I studied it and I watched videos, and for some reason I just could never swim quickly. So I found my home also in duathlon, and it's a lot easier to train because obviously you don't have to have easy access to a pool all the time. Have you learned anything from sport, whether duathlon or other sport, that shapes you as a leader?

Definitely. So my resilience is quite high. I imagine a bit like yours. These competitions pretty tough, and in pretty tough climates sometimes too. And also for the training that you have to go through as well, while doing probably a full-time job, having a family life, and maybe having a life as well. It's definitely that teamwork. But most importantly, that was what I love the most about probably the sport, is meeting people at all levels, because rank has no place in Lycra, is what I say. So the different people you meet, it doesn't really matter your background, because you're wearing a piece of skinny fabric, and, and that's great. So that shaped me as a leader because, uh, it's really once again recognizing the importance of everyone at every level to contribute to the broader conversation. And I've been so lucky, a bit like people like, like meeting you. It's a great, it's a great team, Team GB. It's a bit of a strong team, but I hope at one point when I get, when I get older, I might actually get further up the medal table.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I'm sort of the filler person. I help the podium finishers. I, I, I can draft for them or something.

Awesome.

But that's about it. Yeah, those are all great. That's why I love sport, whether it's triathlon, duathlon, or any other sport, is all the things that you mentioned, you know, the resilience and the training requirement, the discipline and the teamwork and all those sort of things. And yeah, it is wonderful. You meet super, super people and everyone's kind. You know, that's what I also noticed. While we're all representing our country on the world stage and we all wanna make our countries proud and we wanna do our very best, At the end of the day, the majority of the athletes, you know, I want to say 99.9%, they just accept one another and love one another. And there's no judgment. And whether you're number one top podium finisher or you're the last person across the finish line, everyone is loved and celebrated. So it's a pretty unique thing.

Yeah.

So I didn't mean to make an advertisement for everyone, but certainly I think Roxette would say, go out and do it. Join a club or just take a chance, do a small race and it might change your life and lead to, you know, who would've thought, right, Roxette? that you and I would be, you know, competitors on the world stage and, you know, connected in so many different ways.

Absolutely. Very lucky. Thanks.

I'd be remiss without— I want to ask you about the Navy. That's so interesting. So, you know, because the British Navy has such a great history, what inspired you to join the Navy?

Oh, so, um, public service probably has been, uh, quite, quite deep in my heart. I did aeronautical engineering at university, and I was really fascinated by how fluid moves over things, and I wanted to see the world. I did end up seeing the world from the inside of a tin can, in the main, but just hugely lucky to see a lot of things, meet a lot of people, spent a bit of time out in operational theaters, a bit like you, and latterly with the submarine service. But there's always something new to do, and the team spirit is second to none, as well as the banter. So, you've got to get stuck in, and I love that. I love just doing things. How about you?

I got in it because One, my father was in it, in the Army, and so I was sort of inspired by that. You know, I saw a lot when I was growing up. The second reason is I'm just a patriot, right? I'm a first-generation United States American citizen. My parents came from Germany over to the United States, and, and I just like super like I want to give back to the country. So it was a kind of a public service sort of thing. It's like I want to give back. And then the third reason Which was, I hate to say it, maybe as important as the first 2 was I needed to go to college and I needed money. And so the Army offered me, you know, a scholarship. So that was sort of the icing on the top of the cake. I was 17 years old, you know, and I was like, I was getting no financial aid from the government. I was getting no financial aid from my parents cuz we weren't very wealthy. We were, you know, poor. And so the Army offered me a way. And I gave back. I served 15 years, primarily in the reserves. I know you spent, I think you said 12 plus years. And but but I loved it. I learned so much. And when I think about some of my success today, you know, I just point back to the Army and they how they took this little kid and helped me become you know who I am today. So no, that's awesome. But the Navy, that's much better. Being in the British Navy, that's that's much better. But I can't wait till we get to hang out in person at the next race that will be. in together and, and we'll, we'll have a good time. So we talked about a lot of things and I could have kept going, Rox, because you're such a fascinating leader and person. But we talked a lot about— well, first we started off with the British Empire Medal, which is like, how cool is that? And then hearing about your life story and your career, and then Macmillan Cancer Support and all the fascinating things that you do there. And we talk a lot about career specifically. And areas that you've helped others in and the things that you do today. And then of course, triathlon, duathlon. So we talked a lot about a lot of different things, but I wanted to leave the last minute for you. So is there anything that we missed that you'd like to share or anything that we did talk about that you wanted to double down on?

Just a huge thanks. Healthcare is a really exciting space. Digital data technology, really exciting space. If you don't know where to start, if you're getting new into the sector, reach out to anyone. People love talking about what they do. And start small. If you've not got much time, just just read something on Twitter, for example. Everything shapes us, everything grows us, and embrace your own diversity because you are a team player first and your role second, so you add value to any conversation. So, yeah, just keep having fun, everyone, because that's what we're here for, isn't it? So, just a huge thank you, Ed. It's lovely, actually, to speak to you. So, great stuff here.

I'm really honored. You're, like I already said, you're a fascinating person and Full of great insights. Although the one I wrote down, I wrote down several, but one was rank has no place in Lycra. I like that. That's good. That's awesome. But you're, you're just a wonderful person. I could, I, it's, it comes out very clear. So thank you for being our guest and I'll look for you out on the racecourse.

And you too, when I catch up with you.

All right. Take care. And that wraps up another edition of Digital Voices.

Thank you for listening to Digital Voices Podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.

Thank you.