Faith in the Workplace (ft. Adam Gale)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Digital Voices special drop, Christmas week 2022. Can't think of a better person to have with me to do that with than Adam Gale. Adam, welcome to Digital Voices.

Well, thanks, Ed, and thanks, Megan. Great to be here today.

Yeah, so we're gonna dive into faith in the workplace. I think that's gonna be a super interesting topic and a little bit about KLAS, K-L-A-S, for the uninitiated. But before we get started, DJ Megan, how do you incorporate your faith in the workplace?

I think mostly, you know, how I treat other people. Like, I try to treat people with kindness and respect like I would wanna be treated myself. Awesome.

No, that's great. So yeah, Adam, you know, we'll get into your introduction, In a little bit, I'll have you share a little bit about yourself, but obviously you run Class, you're the CEO of Class, and you're all about leadership and healthcare transparency, and your faith always shines through in everything that you do. So when I think about the time when we first met, and Adam, I'm not even sure the year, it's got to be 2010 or maybe earlier.

Yeah, maybe even a little earlier than that.

Yeah. So I had, you know, I'm a big user of Class my entire career. It's like, that's like the first thing we check, like, Hey, what about— what do we know about this system? Let's look at the CLASS report. And so I was always working with CLASS and always, you know, being the good steward on the other side and answering questions and taking part in the surveys. And then ultimately you all asked me to join your advisory board, which was great. I think, I think it was a 3-year term, but then I got, you know, an additional 1-year term. And it was great learning more about CLASS and the great work that you all do. And so I think that's really the first time we met when we just connected and we did.

Well, we loved having your candid voice be part of our board. We know that you are very kind, but also very clear on, hey, this is what the market needs. So we loved that.

So everyone wants to know, Adam, all of our guests, what's on your playlist? What kind of music do you listen to?

Well, there's what I used to listen to and what I listen to today. So let me share what I'm listening to today, 'cause it's way off the beaten path for me. I have 3 teenage boys and they all listen to country music today. Which I grew up not liking country music at all 'cause it was like you were a weird kid if you listened to country music. So today my boys get in the car, turn on, you know, plug their phones in and they just blast Morgan Wallen and all kinds of other country music, which was totally unexpected 'cause I'm more of like a U2 old school kind of guy.

Yeah.

And they play a lot of that. And so I listen to it all the time now. And it drives my wife crazy, but I'm I'm starting to kind of get into the country music as well.

Yeah, that's interesting because you know we have that in common. It's kind of the old school stuff. U2 is my band, but also lately one of my kids pulled me into country as well. Make sure your kids listen to Bailey Zimmerman. This is a shameful plug for Bailey Zimmerman. See if they what they think about that guy.

Okay, I'll report back on what what they think of Bailey.

All right. So is there a life message or passion or some words that you live by, Adam, that sort of guide you in your life?

Well, you know, with our theme today of faith and business. business kind of coming together, I thought there's something interesting that, that I have on my person. So I have a ring on my finger that, uh, says Choose the Right. And, uh, the unique part about my ring is it actually says SIG because that's Italian for scegli il giusto. So choose the right in Italian. So it's pretty basic, simple way of living, but, but trying to just do— figure out what's the right thing and then go do that. And I will say that's more aspirational probably than actual on some days. You could Probably ask my kids if I choose the right every day and they might say, well, I could give some examples where Dad has probably not, not been as kind or as good as he should have been. But it seems like a basic way of living of what's the right thing to do and then hopefully being courageous enough to go do that.

Yeah, that's very interesting too. And I think the Italian part is going to tie in a little bit later into the story.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love that. And they have the ring. So it's something on your person. Obviously they can't see. It's a podcast, but I can see you. It's a ring, so it's on your person, so you're reminded of it all the time. I love that.

Yeah.

So share a little bit about your story personally and professionally, like, you know, how you got to where you are today, and then we'll jump into a little bit about class, and then we'll talk about more about faith in the workplace.

Great, great. Well, so I was born in Cleveland, and I know you spent some time in Cleveland, Ed, but, uh, but I, I lived in Cleveland, and it wasn't, uh, till years later that I realized why they called the Browns the Browns. And, you know, I should have made that connection much earlier. But grew up in Cleveland, then moved just outside of DC, lived in California, Arizona, Utah. So I was sort of a vagabond growing up. And part of that was because my father sold for different healthcare IT companies, and he went where the business was and where there was some energy. So we lived all over the country. And it was interesting, he at some point had this idea for class. And it was something that was interesting to me. He was kind of just sharing ideas. And in fact, let me just share where the idea for class came from. He was sitting in a board meeting for Sunquest, which was one of the best lab systems in the day.

Yeah.

And they were having a discussion that was fascinating because they were about to go public. And so the discussion was, okay, how much can we reduce expenses to make the numbers look the very best they can for going public? And part of the expense reduction was how much can we trim our support team? Because they had some of the best support in the industry and that's what set them apart. But they said, look, we could drop down, we're at the 90th percentile, we could drop down to the 75th percentile. No one would probably really notice until after we went public and then we could hire those people back or maybe not. So my father's sitting there in this meeting thinking, we're really talking about how much worse we can be as a company. and hoping that no one will notice.

Right.

And he had been selling the fact that, look, it's a good lab system, but the best part of Sunquest was you get great support, interfaces, you know, all the things that come with having great support. So he went and with a couple of other folks that also worked at Sunquest at the time, they were sitting in Tucson on the steps of the City Hall building saying, I think we should build a business that measures how well these healthcare IT companies really perform. And this is before Yelp and Google Reviews and, you know, all of those other things that made that kind of ubiquitous. But it was stepping out on a limb to say, can we really have some transparency in healthcare IT and get that out to the market? So that was really the moment where Class was born, I would say. Yeah, interesting.

So you just were raised up under your father, right, in terms of the business. So he brought you in the fold and then you've since taken over the business.

Yeah. So at that time, there were 4 founders, and I think they just needed me as the vowel in CLASS, because CLASS is Kent, Leonard, Adam, and Scott. I think they just needed an A for the business, and so that was me. And I did a lot of the, I'll say, the heavy lifting in terms of technology, built the database, the website. I was going to Brigham Young University studying those things, so it was natural for me to do that. But pretty quickly, I learned to love the business, like learning to talk to CIOs and hearing what their issues were. what they were trying to solve. And I couldn't help but just love the fact that IT intersected with healthcare in such an interesting way and that we could really change the world by raising the bar for these healthcare vendors. So it didn't take long for me to get hooked on that. And so I was working at Class. I mean, working at Class, it kind of existed as a business, but we had no revenue. So that was a little challenging. And so I graduated from BYU, went to my father and said, hey, I have some great job offers, which one should I take? And he said, well, I think you should work at Class. Like, what would you think of doing that? And I said, well, if you'll start paying me, I think we could start thinking about that, you know, being an actual business. And there was just a jumping off point where we said, look, we think this could actually work. You could have enough data that it would impact the market. And so that was the jumping-off point for me with Class, with these 3 other founders, including my father, who was one of those.

So what about— you mentioned you had 3 teenage boys. Are any of them interested in following in your footsteps? Are they interested in that sort of business world?

So my oldest son thinks Class sounds like the most boring thing in the world, like to do research on technology and build graphs and such. That's how I've kind of dumbed it down, is, OK, we sell graphs to people. He thinks that sounds not interesting at all. My 13-year-old son, on the other hand, he goes door-to-door selling cookies to people, and he just has the biggest, bluest eyes. So I'm still trying to recruit him as a sales leader, you know, in about 20 years when he's at that space. But I don't think there's a natural affinity to doing what we do 'cause it's such a unique thing.

Yeah.

And even, I think people being in healthcare IT generally, it's not something you grow up probably thinking, I want to do healthcare IT. But, but when you get into it, you learn how it's easy to have a passion around the space.

Yeah. So Adam, part of your story too. So you were at BYU. So is that where you met your wife and, and you got eventually got married and had children?

Yeah, met my wife at BYU. And, uh, the one thing that I promised I would never do would be to date a freshman, by the way. So, so I get to BYU, meet this girl, and she's so fun and so cute and amazing. And all of her friends are sophomores and juniors. I go to her birthday party and I count the candles on her cake and she's turning 19. And I'm like, what in the world? I promised that that would never happen. But she's incredible. She's the superstar in our, in our tag team here. And I pretty much just try to keep up with her as best as possible. But she's pretty remarkable.

Yeah. You— what do they say? Both you and I, we outkicked our coverage or something like that. Yeah. Married up for sure. So on Class, before we head to faith in the workplace, what are some changes, Class, from the time that, you know, you first all sort of started and you took your first position there and what you do today? So, 'cause I imagine over time things have changed a little bit.

Yeah, things have definitely changed. And, and, and I just thought I'd share with you, Ed, one story that I don't think I've ever shared publicly with people that they might find interesting. And this was, this was fairly early on. That I'm at home on a Sunday night and get a call on my cell phone from the CEO of a fairly large public company, which did not happen often for me. So I knew this was something interesting. And so he's on the phone with me and he, he first, he hears my kids in the background and kind of, you know, jokes about my kids and like just is very positive about life. And then he says, Adam, I want you to not publish the report you're about to publish on our company. And my ears perk up. And this was a company, well-known, everyone would know who the CEO is, but their new release was a disaster. And not just a new release, it was a major upgrade for the market, and it was gonna solve world hunger, but it was a disaster. Even going so far as where if you would document on a patient, it would go into the wrong record. So the documentation would go to the wrong patient. Which was, you could imagine, pretty painful for some of those first adopters of that system. And so the phone call goes from kind of cordial to, I think this is best for the market. If you don't publish this, it's just going to confuse clients. They're still going to buy from us anyway, but you'll just cause lots of issues. And then the end of the call went to, and class, if you do publish it, we're going to sue the pants off of you because we're a big public company. We're just going to crush you like bugs. And that's one of those moments where you really decide what you're made of. What is the goal of the company? Because this is a vendor that paid us a lot of money to have access to the data. And I knew that if we didn't publish this, I couldn't look myself in the mirror the next day. There's no way. There's no way I couldn't tell my CIO and other friends out there in the market what was really going on. But we ended up publishing that report. It was really bad news for this vendor. And I think that was sort of the beginning of their Long downhill trajectory. But, and by the way, it also probably cost Class about $1 million at the end of the day because they acquired— like, they canceled their membership, they bought another vendor, they canceled their membership. So for a small company, that was a pretty big deal for us. But I think it, it clarified in my mind who the customer really was, that it wasn't who paid us the money, it was at the end of the day always the health system buyer. What did they need to know? And then the patient at the end of the day. So, so that was something that I think people probably don't recognize the pressure on us to, to say the things that a certain vendor— that lots of vendors would like us to say, but also the reality that if we ever did that, you know, the providers would lose trust in us as a, as someone that amplifies their voice. So I just wanted to share that before I got into maybe some of the changes.

Yeah, no, that's good because it actually ties really well into the faith, you know, discussion, because it's about being your authentic self and being true to yourself. And when you start compromising it, you run into problems. So this certainly is a business. If you start compromising your ethics and your North Star, you're going to run into some sort of issues downstream. Let's jump into faith. So you were a missionary in Rome. That ties back, I imagine, to your story with your ring.

Yeah. So, you know, you picture this. I'm a 19-year-old kid. I've lived all around the country, but still kind of a sheltered life. And there's all the normal things you care about— going to the university, your girlfriend, your car, your job, like all the things that are like front and center when you're 19. And, uh, you know, you submit these, uh, kind of an application to say, look, I'd like to go serve somewhere for 2 years, and they tell you where you're gonna go. So you fund it, but they tell you where you're gonna go fund it, you know, for the next 2 years. And mine just happened to be Rome, Italy. And I had never once pondered going to Rome, Italy, but when I got that call, I was pumped. Like, I had no idea literally what that meant, but I knew it was going to be awesome. So you go out there in the middle of an unfamiliar city, you don't speak the language, you literally don't know anyone there. They tag you, team you up with another kid who's probably 20, you know, a year older than you. But, you know, he's like the senior guy that knows what's going on. And you live in an apartment, you have very little oversight, and your guidance is to go support these people physically, emotionally, and spiritually. And you're knocking on doors, meeting people, fumbling through with the language. So it was— I mean, you want to talk about baptism by fire, that is baptism by fire for a 19-year-old kid. But it was incredible.

Yeah, I've never had that kind of experience, but I can only imagine. you know, how it sets you up for success. In fact, I think I read an article on that one time. It was actually about— I think maybe it was in Time magazine. It was about the Mormon Church. And it was at a time when— when— who was the individual? I just spaced it. Uh, was running for president?

Mitt Romney. Yeah.

Yeah. And it was a very positive article about how that 2 years, how that training— I mean, because think of it as a young adult, how informative that training is. Learn how to talk to people. Learn how to share something about yourself. Learn how to ask questions, how to serve people. I mean, of course it's gonna make, uh, these, give these individuals a, an advantage, I think, in the workplace because you have all that maturity and then you go to school and it, it's just a great mix. I mean, it's just, I can see how, how that, you know, could really make for great leadership.

Yeah, it was certainly a great way to learn empathy. You know, you're in someone's house and they, they're sharing with you their deepest, darkest challenges. That could be challenges in their marriage, challenges with their kids. financial challenges. And you're thinking, all right, I'm this 19-year-old kid. I've never been married. I don't have any kids. I've never faced most of these things. But look, I know there is a way to have hope and peace and finding that. So we shared that through Jesus Christ, you know, the Church of Jesus Christ, the Mormon Church.

Yeah.

So we would share those things. And it was, I mean, it's life-changing. So not just the sort of knocking on doors, but the The empathy that you end up having for people. And there's so many stories of things that happened. I just thought one that would be interesting. So we took this van from Rome down to Naples, and the further south you go, the more— I'm just going to say sketchy it probably is with the mafia and other things. So we go drive down, we park. So one side of the street you can park on, you pay $2 to a guy who's standing there. And I mean, it's not paid parking, but you just pay this guy $2 to park on that side of the street, and the other side you don't pay. We parked— I mean, we had no money basically, so we parked on the side that had— you didn't pay. We slept outside, like right above the van on a balcony. I mean, this is not a fancy setup for these missionaries. So we sleep outside on the balcony. The next morning, my companion nudges me. He's like, hey, What? Our van is gone. And I'm like, what are you talking about? So I just like lean over the balcony edge and sure enough, our van is not there. So again, I'm this 20-year-old in a foreign country. Like, no one's going to believe the Americans or care about the Americans.

Right.

We go to the police station. They, they just kind of shrug like, well, that's just what happens, you know? But, but I'm like, I'm going to find this van. So I go to some guys that I know probably have some connections. to these kinds of people, and I say, can you help us find our van? And they say, absolutely, we can help you find your van, but just realize this: if we help you find your van, then you're going to owe these guys a favor, and you don't want to owe them a favor. Like, that is not a good place to be. And so again, I'm just this kid from the United States who's trying to figure out, like, what are these other countries like, and is the mafia even real? And you're like, okay, It is real, and we're just going to let the van go, and that's going to be fine. But those kind of things, like, once you've done that, you feel like you can deal with just about anything that you'll run across in the rest of the world.

So now, you know, a few years later, you know, you're in the workplace, and, you know, I know you as a God-fearing man. How do you be your authentic self in the workplace? So you, you have this belief system, and how do you carry that? And at home, how do you carry that into the workplace, or do you not carry it? How do you— I don't want to lead you on too far.

No, no. And by the way, just the fact you asked that question was really interesting for me because I thought back on my life and I, I was picturing junior high school. I was not authentic at all. Like, I wanted to be anything but authentic in junior high school. And so, because, because I was kind of this— I was a smart kid and it was not cool to be a smart kid in junior high school. So, and so I was embarrassed by that. I was embarrassed to get the right answer in math class or whatever, and for kids to call you names about, oh, you're the teacher's pet or whatever.

Right.

And then, and then in high school, I learned that I was the smart athlete. And by the way, that is different from than being a good athlete, which I was not, but I was a smart athlete. And I could start to be my authentic self in high school and really just enjoy the things that that I was better at. So now as a CEO, I think one of the things— and I don't want to toot my own horn on this, but I do want to just say, I think people would say Adam is the same at church and at work and at a football game and at a neighborhood barbecue, just being who I am. And that doesn't mean like being preachy all the time. That doesn't mean like telling people what they should do. I think it's just trying to be a good example of what you would want to be, what you would want others to be. And that, I don't think, is, is that complex. It's just trying to maybe choose the right— again, going back to that theme.

Yeah, yeah, I know. For me, it's still a little challenging where, you know, if I was in a church setting or a home setting and you shared with me that, um, you know, you had— you were dealing with cancer, I would immediately stop and we'd pray together. And so in the work situation, you know, that comes up and it's like, okay, Ed, are you going to be the same or are you going to be different? And so I, I've learned over time I'm the same, or 90% of the time. I can't, can't claim it every time, but I try to be. So I challenge myself, it's like, all right, what would I do? I got to be the same person. So if that person's hurting, I'm going to love on them and I'm going to pray with them just like I would another.

And that is harder at work, and you have to be sensitive at work about, you know, what's the appropriate way to do some of those things. But I think caring about people and just taking the time with them, and there's probably appropriate places to pray or reference something religious, and knowing who you're talking with, like what their level of willingness to have that discussion would be, I think also makes sense. But just trying to always be as real as you can.

Yeah. And I always ask for permission too. I'm like, I don't wanna freak you out or anything, but hey, I wanna pray for you. And then they're like, you know, people often say, oh, I'm gonna pray for you. And they mean, you know, someday in a corner or someplace someone might pray for you. But I'm like, no, no, I'm gonna pray for you like right now. Are you cool?

Yeah.

So I've found that that helps. But yeah, you're right. You gotta be sensitive, right, about how people might respond and the appropriateness and things like that. Have you ever had a conflict between, gosh, your faith, like where you had, what you know is right, again, going back to your ring, and something in the workplace. And you actually gave an example already earlier with the CEO who was saying, don't print this, don't print this. Do you have any other examples where you've sort of been challenged and how you overcame that?

You know, there's one thing that came to mind specifically as I thought about that. So we, we have 5 values at Class and a quote on the wall about each of those values. So one of the values is humility. And we had a quote on the wall that I loved, and it said, pride is about who is right, Humility is about what is right. And that quote came from a leader in the Church of Jesus Christ. So it was kind of a spiritual religious quote. And there were a few people at class who said, look, we just feel like this is kind of a religious thing and we'd rather not have that in the workplace. And I really had to ponder on that for a couple of weeks thinking, because I don't want people to feel like religion is being forced on them in any way. I do want to represent the best of religion, like this quote of humility is concerned about what is right. And at the end of the day, we found a different quote that gave the same kind of powerful message, but not from a religious standpoint, because my goal wasn't to push religion, it was to push goodness and push humility. So trying to remember just what the goal is.

Right.

is not to push your faith, but to push just, you know, being wise, in this case being humble. So that— but that took me a few minutes to say, okay, I'm not trying to hold on to the religion or my religion so much as to just teach the class people to humbly listen to the people that we listen to. So that, again, I don't know if I made the right decision, Ed, but it was trying to get down to what is the principle that I believe in.

Yeah. And sort of related to that, sometimes faith is caught, not taught. So there's times when, you know, you hear the gospel, you hear a message of hope and love and, and grace, and, and you're like, oh yes, you know, and it makes sense. And other times it's people watching and they catch it from by the way that you act.

Yeah.

And, and especially in the workplace, I think people are always skeptical, you know, of people who have strong faith and, uh, always looking, you know. So having that congruency between all phases of life is important. And I think people They kind of catch it, you know, sometimes. I like that.

Caught versus taught is inter— that's interesting. Thank you.

So have you learned anything from the scriptures that you've applied in the workplace? Like, because it makes sense from a leadership point of view, there was something that, you know, you learned from the Bible that makes sense, you know, as a leader.

So here's one that just comes to mind right off the bat, is that leadership is really followership.

Yeah.

So following the example of great people, of following the example of Jesus Christ, following the example, like, even for me, following my father. So my father is a man of great integrity and great humility. So learning from him and learning from others around me, because I think I used to think leadership was more like, you've got to be out front, you've got to kind of bulldoze people or, you know, whatever you may need to do as a leader. And I found that leadership can be much more about empathy, much more about trying to do the right thing. And that may be cliché, but I just think that followership helped me learn leadership, as strange as that may sound.

Yeah, I just thought about it as we were talking because really the— and again, we're not trying to preach to people here on this podcast, but just talk about faith in the workplace. But a lot of the Bible is really a great leadership story and followership story. And I take a lot of my lessons and cues from scripture. There's great leaders in script— in the scriptures, whether you look at 'em as a historical figure or actual figure. For me, like they're real, but it's just the lessons learned and the thing, the way they led and the vision, all that kind of stuff. I, I think there's a lot of applicability into the workplace. So let's move over to, to leadership then. You've been a CEO now for quite some time, and what are one or two keys to your success?

Well, I think we, we've hit on this some, but it's really about the people. As much as I think it's about a great strategy or having great tactical plans or having great whatever else, I think it's having great people and then valuing them in a very real way and then giving them room to fly. So I think the best things I've seen leaders do is just to share real gratitude. And again, thinking about that this Thanksgiving, this last week, I've been thinking about that quite a bit of how you should be grateful for the people and what they've done and how do you communicate that better? I don't know that I always communicate that as well as I'd like, but I had someone come into my office this week and they pulled out a thank you note that I'd written 12 years ago. And they said, look, I just valued this so much that you took the time to handwrite this to me. And I've kept this. And I just think some of these small things about not just saying you value people, but really appreciating them and really giving them room to grow feels like it's maybe an underappreciated, uh, piece of that leadership spectrum. Yeah.

What would you say to someone who's early in their faith or maybe shy in their faith and they want to be their authentic self in the workplace, but they're scared, they're intimidated? Because I suspect this happens quite a bit, and people don't want to offend other people, and, you know, they're afraid what people might say. What would your— if this was like, let's say, your son talking to you and say, Dad, You know, I'm struggling. It's not like they're doing anything counter to it in the workplace, but they're just not living their true self. What would some advice be that you might have for someone like that?

That's a great question. The first thing that comes to mind for me is really 2 things. One is courage and the other is simplicity. So the simplicity is in not saying, hey, here's my— all my religious self, and maybe throwing that all out there, but just saying If someone asks, hey, what did you do this weekend? Like, hey, we went and worked at the food shelter because we did. My kids and I, we went down and packed food at the Utah Food Bank. And not so much to pat yourself on the back, but just to share, hey, that was such a cool feeling to see that, to meet the head of the food bank, to see what the needs are, and just share like a real thing you did. And again, not to pat yourself on the back, but to share how meaningful that is. For you. I have a son right now. He is 20, and he just landed in Poland yesterday, and he's driving into the Ukraine today to deliver medical supplies and body armor to folks in the Ukraine. So it's one of those things where I'm pretty nervous and praying hard for him, but just the fact that he cared enough— this was his idea. This wasn't the dad saying, hey, you should go find something good to do, but he He was really enthusiastic about that and just sharing those things that are maybe small but meaningful ways to serve, do good. I know you, you do the same thing, Ed, because I've seen it lots of times.

Yeah, no, no, that's great advice. And yeah, I just always challenge myself like, all right, don't change your words. If you would have said it like this in church or with your Christian friends or whatever, with Adam, just say it and then let it land, you know, whatever it is. And It just takes a little bit of courage, but you should live your authentic self. There's— life's too short not to.

And I think people don't mind too much when you are authentic and they can see that's who you really are versus you're trying to be preachy to them or you're trying to show off something. If they can see that's just who you really are, I think they appreciate that.

Yeah. And like you, you're very humble, you know, in all of your storytelling. And it's like if people see that humility too, it's like, gosh, I, I screw up. I'm not perfect. And I don't, you know, try to claim to be. Here's what I aspire to, you know, is what I want to be. But there's always that struggle and fight, and I think people appreciate that and get that a little bit.

And by the way, if I can add to that, Ed, one thing I've tried to do that ties to that— so I send out a Christmas card every year to folks and just, just to say, hey, Merry Christmas. And we send with that a list of Gale family quotes from the year that are highlight quotes, and most of those show the the humanness, the normalcy, the weirdness maybe of the Gale family. So trying to tie together the fact that, look, we love to celebrate at Christmas time, but also we're normal folks just like you, you know, and just kind of celebrating the fact that we all have these fun things together.

Yeah, no, I've seen it. It's true. You guys are goofy family. I love it. See it on Facebook all the time. So we could keep going. I love this topic. I— maybe we should try a part 2 sometime. But we talked about a ton of stuff, Adam. Uh, did— is there something I missed or something you want to double down on before we end?

You know, just that it's a pleasure to work with so many good people out in the industry. Like, there are so many people that are driven by trying to do what's right, trying to build something great, trying to run their hospital in the best way possible. So it is— it's a privilege to get to tie into so many good people. And I just feel like I gravitate towards them because they make me better by spending time with them. And Ed, you're one of those. So thank you for both your time on the board, but just your continuing willingness to share feedback and share, share your time with us.

Well, it's my pleasure, Adam, and thank you. And I want to say thank you as well. I think it was, uh, 7 years ago, kind of like the big trauma in my life is I got a divorce, which, you know, in my belief, our belief system, it's not something that I got married, you know, when I was 20, and I intended to not— and I never not intended to stick with it, the commitment, right? But it's— stuff happened, and I got a divorce. Wasn't proud of it, but it happened. And you were, you know, I was watching like the reaction of, of, uh, brothers and sisters, and not all of them were kind, but you were, and you accepted me and loved on me anyway. So thank you for that.

Well, we think the world of you, Ed, so thank you.

All right, that wraps up Digital Voices. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Thanks. Thank you for listening to Digital Voices Podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.