From Service to Innovation (ft. Eric Gardner)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Ed Marx here. Welcome to Digital Voices. One of my favorite things to do on the podcast is have military veterans as guests who are then doing great things in the civilian world. And so you won't be disappointed today in our talk with Eric Gardner. Eric, welcome to Digital Voices.

Thanks so much, Ed. It's a pleasure to be here.

We really appreciate our veterans. And Eric, thanks for serving.

Yeah, it was my honor.

So yeah, Eric, I'm trying to think the first time we met, is it all online or did we meet up somewhere?

Yeah.

At a boot camp.

No, the first time we met was online through LinkedIn. I actually picked up the book that you did with Patty during COVID So, it helped me bridge some knowledge gaps there. I reached out to you and you replied back and had some nice conversations. And then, of course, we met face-to-face recently at CHIME. Yeah.

So, that's kind of a nice thing about the virtual world. We can connect with one another and scale a bit. But yeah, then we connected again at Chime. This is cool. So what, Eric, everyone wants to know is what's on your playlist. So what kind of music do you like to listen to?

It's very eclectic. I think I've been spending a lot of time listening to Burna Boy. He's a Nigerian artist. But also looking at a couple of concerts I'm going to and catching up on my Red Hot Chili Peppers. They're coming to San Antonio. in, in May. So listening to them a little bit. And, uh, yeah, just the, just the real broad swath of, of music from, from country to, to rap and R&B and a little bit every— everything in between.

Yeah, that's very, very cool. And what about your life message? Or maybe there's a quote or a mantra or something that you sort of use to guide your life?

Yeah, so, um, being a, a 2-time cancer survivor, uh, carb— Carpe diem is kind of my mantra, right? Seize the day. We are not promised tomorrow, so try to make the most of each day and be a positive force in the world.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. How has being a cancer survivor, how has that helped you in your role in healthcare?

Sure. Yeah. And we'll probably get into this a little bit more, but Uh, you know, I got into healthcare, um, because of, uh, an experience that, that my father went through. He actually passed away of cancer, uh, when he was 49. I was 17 at the time.

Wow.

And, uh, just seeing how fractured the system was, it was so difficult for us to navigate, even though my mother was a nurse for 40-plus years, um, navigating the healthcare system and trying to get him what he needed while we were going through the, uh, the treatments was, was a nightmare. So, I got into healthcare to help fix that.

Yeah, I'm so— well, I'm sorry to hear about your dad. I mean, that's a very young age. And then, you know, obviously while you're, you know, still at home and so forth. Yeah, it does have a way— I can relate, of course— it does have a way of impacting you. Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about your story, sort of personally and professionally, and how you got to where you are today.

Sure. Yeah, so Uh, as you mentioned, I, I joined the Air Force at, uh, 18 to test out the, uh, the healthcare world, uh, before I invested in, um, you know, several years of my life, uh, in, in med school. Um, so became a medic and learned a lot about medicine and, um, went through some of the pre, pre-med, uh, work in, in junior college and, and then decided I really wanted to have a bigger impact, uh, more than one patient at a time and, and hopefully influence the, the way that the healthcare system is organized. So moved over into administration and the rest is history, so to speak.

That's great. And so you start off as a medic like I did, and that sort of, that experience is sort of further emboldened, sort of like this started that passion, right, for taking care of other people based on the experience that you had with your Your dad. And where is the medic? Where's the medic school for Air Force? Where did you go to school?

Yeah, so I went to lovely Wichita Falls, Texas. Oh, and became an EMT and worked through— it was 16 weeks worth of stuff, but really became a medic. And my providers, when I worked in primary care, let me do a lot of the assessments and treatment and in prepping me for potentially going to UShoes or another med school. They would let me do a lot of the workup and then they would come in and make sure that I was doing the proper treatments and sign off on everything and adjust them as needed. But it was just a tremendous experience. But as I said, I fell in love with the administrative side. I moved over into a staff development type of role and started doing EHR transitions. This is when we were moving from paper to our EHR. And so became a super user and then started working with the IT team quite a bit in that, uh, that whole, you know, change management process of bringing folks along to, uh, to electronic health records.

So what kind of leadership training, you know, you mentioned we already talked a little bit about the medic training and, uh, moving sort of an administrative side. What, what sort of leadership training did the Air Force bring that helped you, you know, to prepare you for the role that you're in today?

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think everything from the basic training, uh, all the way to, uh, you know, Squadron Officer School and, uh, Air Command Staff College, those sorts of things. But in between there, there was a host of, uh, you know, Airmen Leadership School and NCO Academy and then officer training and then, um, uh, and then it helped Health Service Administration course that really primes folks with degrees in the Department of Defense health system. It gets folks a broad overview. I was lucky enough to have that coming in, having 8 years experience in the, in the Air Force health system. But yeah, just a lot of great things. It's a tremendous place for folks to, to serve their country as well as really get some great benefit out of it as well.

Yeah, I mean, that's why I'm asking these questions and mentioning it is because I don't think people realize just, you know, in the medic example you gave, in the military, there's a little bit more freedom. You know, you're not sort of typecast. And so, yeah, depending on your personality and who you're serving with, you get, you know, you get a lot of opportunities. I was an 18-year-old, you know, driving around an ambulance with a medic kit, and I, I could do about anything, you know, that—

Right.

needed to be done and we wouldn't get that experience elsewhere. And then the leadership training that you were describing, you know, these academies that you go to are definitely the equivalent in my book as like an MBA.

I mean, absolutely.

Yeah. I was shocked when I went through it and I was like, um, I was like, yeah, I wasn't prepared for it. I was used to sort of the training I had as a, when I was enlisted as a medic and things like that. And all of a sudden, bam, I felt like, oh yeah, I'm definitely getting advanced Uh, graduate degree. Um, and so I'm a, you know, I, I, I believe, uh, highly in the military and what it can do for people. And, uh, what about yourself? To our audience that might be listening, uh, you recommend, uh, serving in the military for people still trying to find their way, or—

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It definitely helped, uh, make me the man I am today. And, and, uh, I was, you know, honored to continue on. You know, I went in thinking I was going to do 4 years and then go to med school after and stuck around for almost 22. So I definitely fell in love with, with the service and the folks that you serve with. I mean, it's just tremendous group of brothers and sisters that, yeah, it's just a great, great opportunity.

I once had a team, my team comprised of, I had an F-15 pilot, Apache— not Apache, but Black Hawk pilot and medic to the SEAL team. And it was quite a— it was quite a— it was quite a team. So I'm, I'm very fond, obviously, of the military and the training it provides. Would you be able to define like 1 or 2 key things that you learned from the Air Force that help you today?

Yeah, if I, if I could narrow it down to 2 or 3, I think, you know, Accountability, adaptability, and communications are 3 key things. Of course, I would add in innovation and emotional intelligence and those sorts of things as well. But definitely you learn to be accountable for whatever you're responsible for and making the decisions that are needed and those sorts of things.

Yeah. And what are, what are one or two things that you learn in the Air Force, maybe specifically, that you've been able to bring into healthcare? Are there any sort of unique things that came from the Air Force that, you know, things maybe the way they, they practice or administrated medicine that you found helpful on the civilian side?

Yeah. I mean, the similarities are shockingly, or shocking to me because, you know, know, you throw a few different acronyms in there, but really it's, it's patient care. So we took care of, of, uh, you know, active duty members, retirees, and their families in the military. And in the civilian sector, I mean, we're taking care of the same sort of population, um, folks that may not have served, but again, there are families, um, and friends in the community. And so, um, those things are very, very similar. Uh, I think, The unique relationships between administrators and providers, you know, those are things that I learned to build really strong relationships with in the military, and the same is true in the civilian sector, making sure that you have a great relationship with your physicians because, you know, our physicians drive the business. They're the ones that are taking care of patients every day along with their support staff, but those type of relationships are instrumental in getting the job done.

Yeah, no, that's good. Let's switch now towards innovation, 'cause I know that's something that you have keen interest in. How did you develop an interest and focus in innovation?

Yeah, so I've always been very curious and technological savvy, I think. Early in elementary, I actually got the opportunity to work with Apple as a young student. And Wozniak actually came to my school and gave us a Macintosh. But I got to learn how to use the Mac. I was one of 2 students that were actually allowed to touch it.

Wow.

And use the handheld scanner to scan in maps of different countries. And then I would do a voiceover about the country. Essentially, I was making an encyclopedia. That was one of my first exposures to it, and then building my own computers and those sorts of things in later years. But I always have been very curious about things and how they worked and tearing things apart and maybe having extra pieces afterwards. But that's sort of where it started.

What year, if you don't mind me asking, was that? Because I do remember in the news, like, Wozniak going around to select schools, and you happened to be one of them and one of the few students got to do something. What year was that, roughly?

Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be late '80s, I think. Yeah, uh, yeah, yeah, probably somewhere around '87-ish.

Yeah, I— when I went to grad school, you know, I was given a teaching assistantship, and I remember I walked into this office, a very unique office, but for another time, uh, but one of the unique parts of it, there was this— the Apple II, or one of the versions of Apple. And, uh, it was just sitting there. No one used it. I don't think anyone knew how. Uh, it was so cool. But, you know, this was still in the day where, um, computers weren't very ubiquitous. You know, you had a, uh, in grad school you had to go to a computer lab, you know, to basically sit down and use a computer. So yeah, we've come, we've come quite a bit.

Yeah, I might be predating myself. It might have been in the '90s actually when I was in middle school. So, um, I think it might have been a little later. It was probably an Apple IIe.

So do you think healthcare is behind other industries in terms of innovation, or you think we're equal? Where do you think we stand?

Yeah, so back to your book, when I picked that up and probably about 10 others with a similar sort of topic, but I think in this digital transformation realm, we're behind, of course, other service industries. And what I talk about my team with quite a bit is, creating a more Amazon-like experience where folks can navigate that system. Again, back to my experience as a teenager and my father navigating the system, I want to be able to see in our portals or digital front doors where things are at or how I can connect the pieces, right? So if I've got a referral to a provider, I should be able to see where that's at in the system. I can see where my pizza is at with different pizza companies.

Yeah.

So why shouldn't I be able to know where my referral's at and whether or not it's been approved and book that appointment and get the care that I need. So those are some of the things that I think about.

Do you have ideas on how, as an industry— I know we can't speak— we don't always want to speak specifically about our own organizations, but generally, what can we do as an industry to help accelerate innovation?

Well, I think, I think that we're making some headway. COVID, of course, helped with opening up some doors, relaxing some restrictions that CMS had, especially for my team in the telemedicine space. And, you know, there's a lot of folks out there lobbying for getting patients the access that they need. And so if we can get those sorts of things to stick, it will really help. that momentum keep moving along. I know I've seen the adoption rate of our seniors go up dramatically during COVID where folks just didn't want to use patient portals or telemedicine, and now it's an everyday part of their lives. So that's really great, and the consumer is helping push us along, right? So we want to be in that innovation arc where we're a little bit ahead of the consumer and making sure that we're overdelivering a little bit. You never want to be in that deficit where you're behind. So I think that that's helping drive innovation in healthcare. But I'm excited for the future. I think that we've got a long ways to go and there's a lot of great things we can do. So it's a good place to be.

Yeah. You know, I want to sort of go back slightly into the leadership topic. And Eric, I'm just curious, you know, because given your experience in the military and now a few years in the civilian world, what has been sort of the most rewarding part of being a leader?

Yeah, I think the most rewarding part is I've been able to build a really great team. You know a couple of the folks on my team. And I've been given the flexibility to really double down on the things that we wanted to do. And it's all in the name of taking care of our patients and making those connections. But I've just— it's so fulfilling to see my team succeed and do some really great things and really bridge those gaps that our patients and providers are having. I think that, you know, over the last couple of years, it's just been really fulfilling for me to be part of the organization I am and the team that I've been able to build.

So, Eric, obviously, you know, with family and work and all the different roles and responsibilities that you have, you know, I know that you do some volunteer work as well, like with Habitat for Humanity. Can you share a little bit about that?

Sure. Yeah, yeah, I do. Actually, most recently, I've been doing a lot with the Texas Ramp Project and building ramps for our patients that are disabled and need some assistance there. And there's a great team from my organization that gets together once a month to build a ramp for our seniors. But yeah, also, you know, the Habitat for Humanity folks, there's a great community that we've been building for several years and it's really rewarding. I take my teenage sons out there as well.

Yeah.

To get them exposed to to that and just really enjoy spending some time with them. You know, from, from being an executive in healthcare to swinging a hammer takes me back to my roots a little bit.

Yeah, that's very cool. So maybe along the same lines, what do you do to refresh or keep yourself fresh, you know, in terms of making sure that you sort of have an integrated or balanced life?

Sure. Yeah. I wake up really early so that I can have some time for myself and do, you know, the Miracle Morning sort of routine, right? I focus on what I'm going to accomplish for the day, meditate a little bit, read a little bit of the Bible. I'll exercise, jump in the sauna or the hot tub, and just get charged up for the day. And then on weekends, you know, hanging out with the family. Uh, going on hikes and biking and running and those sorts of things are all, um, part of our routines.

Yeah. And what did you call it? Miracle mornings? What, what was the phrase?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Miracle Morning. It's actually, it's a book, um, that's been around for some time, but, um, they talk about, you know, a, um, protocol of things that you do every morning and you can break each category down into, uh, you know, a few minutes worth of Of, of, uh, investment. And it really does great things for your, your outlook and, and, uh, stress levels and things like that.

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm a big believer in all that. That's why I asked you the question. And, uh, yeah, it's helpful to have a routine, um, for a wide variety of reasons. And, you know, sort of a hack that I learned this year, I've been practicing and so far, uh, so good. I, you know, I aspire to do all the things that you just mentioned in your Miracle Morning. But I was having trouble being consistent in my reading of scripture and my meditation. But I never had a problem being consistent with Peloton and, um, you know, my workout. So I finally integrated the two, uh, and I haven't missed, um, a quiet time or meditation, uh, since the beginning of the year. So, um, that's great. First thing I do, you know, I hop on the Peloton just as a warm-up. And so during that warm-up, Instead of perusing email or Facebook or whatever, um, I am, you know, doing my get through the New Testament in a year and, uh, prayer things. And, um, it's, it's been wonderful actually. And so, uh, that's just a little tip for our listeners, whether it's, uh, you know, meditation or some— something else that's important to the routine. If you combine it with something else, um, You're more likely to get both accomplished. So that was my, that was my little learning. Um, yeah, let me, let me go ahead.

Oh no, I was gonna say, I, I often tell transitioning military members, I try and mentor folks in that transition because there is a, a bridge to cross there. But, um, I often tell them to keep their routines going, right? Because, uh, in the military we, we set routine and we're, we're typically doing our PT, our physical training in the mornings and things like that. And I've seen, you know, folks that have gone into pretty deep depression and unfortunately some folks that take their lives and there's all too many, 22 per day that take their lives. So I often tell folks, make sure you keep the routine up and reach out if you need some assistance on that. But it's really important for your mental health.

Yeah, absolutely it is. And Yeah. And that's a discipline I learned from the Army when I was 17. I went to basic training, you know, they got us up at 0300 and the first thing we did was physical training. So I had never stopped, you know, so 40 years later, uh, I haven't stopped. So it's really good. Hey, Eric, I'm going to ask you a bonus question. Uh, so if you, if you choose not to answer, that's fine, but I'm, I'm kind of curious since you opened the door and that is, uh, how do you incorporate your faith in the workplace?

Um, interesting. Yeah, I mean, uh, folks definitely know my faith, but, um, I try to, of course, be open to everyone's religion, right? So, um, lots of, lots of experience in the military with, with folks coming from all different backgrounds and respecting and celebrating their religions as well. So, um, That's part of it. And integrating it is sharing other people's customs and learning about their traditions and things like that. So we've got a big contingent of folks in India and recently got the privilege to go over and see some of our teammates and learn a little bit about their culture and celebrate some of the great things that That they do.

Yeah, no, that's great. My, the way I always challenge myself is, um, is to be the same person, uh, whether I'm in a church or at home or in the workplace. Because then if I could be the same person, then I'm, I'm my authentic self. Uh, but if I find myself challenging myself or like feeling challenged in the workplace, like I don't want to say a certain thing or what have you, then I know something's wrong. It's like this little alert system that goes off inside my brain. It's like, no, no, just be who you are.

Right.

And, uh, right, and, and like you said, you know, you, you're, you're respectful of— I'm respectful of every, uh, person, background. Um, I love different cultures. I love different ways of doing things. Um, but certainly I, I'm also true to myself. So, Eric, we covered a ton of ground. We, we talked about, um, sort of your formation in the Air Force and why the military in general can be a great, great place to learn skills and learn leadership that then you can apply, whether you stayed in there for your entire career or someone like yourself put in a great amount of years, almost 22 years, and now work in the civilian side. Then we talked about a lot of the key commonalities between the two and how that comes over in healthcare. We talked about innovation and where we are with innovation, how we can close some gaps. And then we talked about what you do in your downtime and spending time with your kids and, um, you know, building ramps and stuff in Habitat for Humanity. So I think that's really cool. Um, and it's so helpful for people. It's a great thing that you're doing. And then we talked about just being our authentic selves and, you know, our faith in the workplace and, and, and really threw out a couple of practical tips, like how to, how to fit it all in, in that Miracle Morning. So, um, we talked about a lot. Is there something we didn't talk about or something we talked about that you want to double down on? So I kind of give you the last word.

Oh, thanks, Ed. No, I think we covered a broad spectrum of topics. So, I appreciate the conversation and always open to coming back, or if your audience has questions, please feel free to reach out to me. But I'm just really grateful for all the things that you do for our community and the work you did with Patty on the book. And I know you've got more books coming. So, appreciate all the great work and just thanks so much for having me.

Yeah, Eric, you're, you're a great, uh, person, great man, great leader. Uh, again, thank you for your service. And, um, I really appreciate you sharing with our audience. And, and, and we went pretty deep on some personal things. Uh, thank you for being so transparent. I think it helps others in their journey. So, um, we'll definitely see you at Chime or Vibe or at some location, if not Texas itself. So thanks again. All right. So that, yeah, that wraps up this drop for For Digital Voices, we'll talk to you next week.

Thank you for listening to Digital Voices Podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.