Improving Quality of Life (ft. Deborah Venesy, MD)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx. Welcome, Digital Voices. My name is Ed, and I get to host this program, which I love. This is one of my favorite parts of Anything I do because I get to talk to amazing, amazing clinicians and leaders like Dr. Deb Venissi. So Deb, welcome to Digital Voices.

Thank you so much, Ed. I'm thrilled to be here.

Yeah, this is going to be fun because, you know, you're— yes, you're a clinician, and yes, you're a leader, but you also are the past president of the American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, which is like so cool.

It is.

And I still want to talk about that, right? Because that's not one of the specialties we often speak about. and talk about. And, uh, so I'm really thrilled about that. But what makes this very extra special is that we've known each other for a long time.

We have.

Deb, I was trying to think. I know you and your husband Dan came over to our house one time for dinner back in Cleveland. I think it was like 2000— what, '04 maybe?

Yeah, it was whenever Dan joined, uh, university. You had a— we were talking about that. We had— you had a welcome party, I think, for Dan and maybe Darby. And yes, yeah, I remember that very well. It was fun.

Yeah. And what a dynamic duo that was. But, um, it was great meeting you then. And I remember because it was kind of weird because, you know, for those who aren't super familiar with Cleveland, you know, you have 2 juggernaut world-class hospitals, University Hospitals and Cleveland Clinic. And, and there's other good ones there too. So Public Health with Metro, they're awesome as well. But anyways, you know, here we were sort of, uh, University Hospitals, and here comes this clinician from the Cleveland Clinic. It was kind of fun, but all my neighbors were Cleveland Clinic, and, you know, everyone's there to— at the end of the day, we're all there to take care of people and make their lives better. So it's all cool. But that was the first time we met, and, and I, I thought it was so cool, uh, you know, and talking, you know, speaking with you. I remember that time. And then, you know, just having Dan, your husband, on board. Very cool.

Yeah.

But Deb, one of the first things everyone wants to know of all of our guests on Digital Voices is What's on your playlist? So what kind of music do you like to listen to?

Well, you know, this is probably one of the harder questions, Ed. You know, really growing up in Northeast Ohio, I worked at Blossom Music Center, which is, for those people that don't know, it's an outdoor amphitheater and it's the summer home of the Cleveland Orchestra. I worked there in college. And so honestly, I really love all types of music, especially rock, '70s through now, old stuff like Eagles, Springsteen, You too. But of course, some of our Northeast Ohio favorites, uh, Black Keys, Michael Stanley. And, uh, we have children, and our daughter taught us to really appreciate country music, like Luke Combs, and any and all of Zac Brown.

Yes.

Darius Rucker, and of course, any Jimmy Buffett songs on vacation. And, uh, one of the— I was thinking about this— one of my walk-on songs, if you will, or a song that I listen to Every time I did a virtual meeting last year, which was many, um, was a very special song from actually one of our favorite concerts, the one right before the last one I went to before the onset of the pandemic. And the song is I Like the Sound of That. And it was, it was just, I don't know what it is, but that's kind of my walk-on song. So a little bit different than things that I listen to, but I really love all music. So. Yeah.

No, that's cool. And yeah, and Blossom, yeah, for those who don't know, it's just one of the crown jewels, I think, of, uh, Ohio in general, but definitely North Ohio. And I've seen so many concerts there. I think the last— so here's another question for you. What maybe the last concert or the best concert so that you saw at Blossom? So the last one before I left Cleveland is I saw The Who. Oh, and it's just a couple years ago. It's like probably 2019. And because I was there by myself, I was able to score a front row ticket at the last second. Because it's easy to get a single ticket as opposed to 2 or more. And that was so much fun because, yeah, it is way, way old school. But man, that's classic rock right there. What about you? What was the best or last?

The last concert that we saw— well, we've seen a lot of the orchestra certainly over the summer. And it was great to be there. I've seen a ton. I told you the Rascal Flatts. That was 2019. And probably one of the most memorable ones was U2. At Cleveland Stadium. So that was, that was really pretty cool, but that wasn't at Blossom.

But yeah, no, yeah, you can never go wrong with U2. It could be in a subway. Yeah. Um, yeah, in New York City. Uh, Deb, what about a—

they were amazing.

Yeah, I, I can't get enough. In fact, this morning I was actually listening to Forty, if you remember that song by U2. They used to end all their concerts, probably when they did Cleveland Stadium, They have ended the concert with a song called Forty. Um, so, uh, do you have a life message or mantra or some sort of words that you live by?

Um, I'd say I, I was thinking about this also, and things that I'm passionate about are actually several, lots actually. My family, certainly volunteerism and giving back and gratitude. Um, I love my academy at PM&R, all of my Our members and volunteers and professional staff. I'm also quite passionate about patient satisfaction and empathy. And I guess it's thanking our patients for being there, listening to them. And I've got another one, courageous leadership.

Oh, I like that.

So a lot of things. So those are the things that make me happy and sing and feel real passionate about.

Yeah, that's cool. No, I like that about you. You're just a real, uh, person. And, um, you know, in addition to all the other great accolades about you, Deb, can you share something about, you know, your story? Like, how did you, you know, grow up and become this, uh, physician leader? You know, anything you want to share, both on the personal and professional side?

Sure. Well, I am the oldest of 4. I have 3 younger brothers, so I'm their favorite sister. My mom was a nurse attorney, and she also worked at the Cleveland Clinic before she retired. I did my—

Oh, cool.

Yeah. And so 2 Veneces, it's an unusual name, but 2 of us there. I did my residency at The Ohio State University, and I worked there after I finished my residency. And I also worked in private practice before I came up to the Cleveland Clinic in 1999. You mentioned Dan. So my husband, Dan Clark, worked with Ed at university, and he and I have been married for 30 years, which is— wow, I know, it's amazing. And we have 2 amazing kids, Matt and Katie, and only one rescue lab left, uh, Dakota. So that's my story in a nutshell.

Yeah, no, 30 years. Congratulations, because you both look— I mean, people can't see you because this podcast, but You don't look like you're, you know, in your late 30s or something.

Yeah, oh, thank you.

Well, that's awesome. Marriage standing the test of time, I love that. So yeah, let's jump into physical medicine and rehab medicine because I remember when we first met, and I hate to admit it, but it was true, I wasn't super familiar with that specialty. And so I remember researching it when I was meeting you because I was like, I need to know about my, you know, my team and their spouses. And so I did a little research, but I have a venture to guess that, Not, not everyone knows. So can you share a little bit about it?

Sure. So physical medicine and rehabilitation, or PM&R, it's also called physiatry, rehab medicine. That's probably part of the problem is we have a variety of names. But PM&R or physiatry, we aim to improve function and quality of life. We are team-oriented physicians. So like, if you break it down into the PM, they're the physical medicine and the rehab. The rehab is a little bit easier to understand. We take care of patients after strokes, spinal cord injuries, brain injuries, and now we're certainly dealing with folks that have long COVID. And that part of the specialty, well, we started after World War II. So anybody that survived a traumatic injury. Amputations, head injuries. So we were the folks that helped them. The physical medicine might be a little bit more fuzzy in regards to what we do, but we use physical modalities, exercise, in addition to medications and other things that physicians do to help with MSK injuries or musculoskeletal injuries, sports injuries, spine injuries. Everything is geared on helping that person function better. And as I mentioned, our specialty is very diverse.

Mm-hmm.

We have pediatric rehab. We have certainly adults. My colleagues deal with pain medicine, so interventional types of things, spine medicine, which is really what I'm doing right now. I mentioned sports medicine. We do cancer rehab, cardiac rehab. There's a wide variety. But overall, we are experts in designing comprehensive and patient-centered treatment plans, and we're integral members of that care team. So, as I said, it's a very function-oriented, quality-of-life type of specialty.

Yeah, no, I love it, right? Yeah, yeah, when you explain it, it's like, yeah, I get it completely, and I can see how I, I've probably been under the care, yeah, of such a clinician. And so, um, curious, why did you choose this specialty? So you went to Ohio State, I think you mentioned, medical school, uh, and then when you went into residency, you had to make some choices. So, right, I'm curious what led you, led you down this path.

Yeah, well, certainly, uh, My mentor, Dr. Ernie Johnson, who was my chair at Ohio State University, loved him. I really love the patient-centered holistic approach to helping people. And I like that we can help our patient functional ability regardless of their impairment. So as I mentioned, I do a lot of outpatient spine. So people that might have neck pain from looking at a computer or back pain, From that type of impairment to someone that might have a stroke or a spinal cord injury. So it's all about getting that person back to whatever the goals are, whether it's return to work, return to sport, just improved quality of life. So I love that about that, very holistic.

Yeah, no, it makes total sense. And so, you know, another question I had is when— but I think, I think you sort of answered it— is when a patient should see a physical medicine physician, all those examples that you just gave.

Oh, any, anytime. We'd love to see you and help you out at any time. But really, if you're anticipating maybe a hip or knee replacement, we can help you with preparation before and after. If you had an accident or you had an injury or some type of chronic condition that had left you with pain or any limited function, we can help with that. If you have an illness, I mentioned COVID, that decreased your ability or your energy, Or ability to move easily, we're there for that. Certainly if you're recovering from a stroke or significant neurologic problem, we're there. I mentioned chronic pain, arthritis, repetitive stress injuries, work injuries. We do it all. Yeah, I know.

I was like, okay, I know what I need to do right after we're done recording.

We're very exercise-focused. We have worked with fantastic colleagues with our therapists too. So I know.

I was just thinking while you were sharing that, you know, I'm pretty involved athletically. I do a lot of crazy things, and I should, you know, rather than wait until I need to see a physician, you know, because I've injured myself, right? There's probably proactive things that I could do and learn by seeing someone before I get myself into trouble like that.

Yeah.

So yeah, no, that's cool. So I want to talk a little bit about— I'll use PMNR, the Academy, American Academy. Of PM&R. And so can you tell us about the roles that you held and the role that you currently hold?

Yeah, so when you reached out to me, I was the current president, but now I'm the immediate past president of the American Academy of PM&R. And I just completed really an amazing presidential year. At the end of October, we had our annual assembly in Baltimore, and this was the first time that it was a hybrid meeting. So because of the pandemic in 2020 and 2021, that was completely virtual. So this was the first hybrid one. It was really super exciting. As immediate past president, but I've been on the Board of Governors for 7 and a half years. I've done a lot of different volunteer committees within the Academy, tons, as well as other professional organizations. But honestly, the last year was a blast. I loved it. I loved it. I learned about the Academy, learned about myself. I learned about holding meetings virtually, hybrid.

Yeah.

I met a lot of super cool docs from, excuse me, all over the country. And our president, or, or as president, our CEO said, hey, Deb, you can attend any meeting that I was interested in attending. So I did. So I was already, I did a lot of other committees before being on the board. But because of Zoom, I could jump in and attend medical education committee. I could do a diversity and inclusion committee. I could hang out with the residents and fellows. I participated in a long COVID collaborative. It was really amazing. And I was just struck by the number of volunteer physicians across the country and all of the cool things that they are doing. as well as our staff. So it was really, it was really an amazing year. And I, my own personal thing that I tried to do last year was try to be more visible on LinkedIn. And that's really how you reached out to me. I was always excited when you liked one of my posts. And, uh, my, my personal goal was just to raise up any awareness of the Academy of PM&R, as well as any physiatrists, because I wanted my colleagues, my friends, my family to really kind of know what the heck do we do? What is a physiatrist, right? And what we're doing. So, and both of our kids are, you know, like Katie said, welcome to social media, Mom. And Matt, who, who does social, um, he does marketing for sports. He was pretty impressed how many times he would see me. And really, uh, both Matt and Dan were always the first ones to like my post. It was very, you know, but I, I don't have as many followers as you, but, uh, Trying, but I, that was my own personal thing that I really wanted to raise awareness. Yeah. So really grateful that you reached out that way. So thanks.

Yeah. Well, clearly you're a great leader, you know, just what you've done already pre being on the board and, and president. It's been fun. And, you know, yeah. And obviously, you know, you're espousing, you know, as you speak, you probably, um, not, may be aware, may not be aware, but for me it's, it just jumps out. I mean, you're, you're just espousing all these leadership traits, you know? Oh, thank you. Being involved. Getting engaged, meeting people, you know, and then like you said, active on social.

Yeah.

And it really does, you know, make a difference.

It does.

Helps. Yeah. So no, that's that's awesome. This is so great.

Thanks.

So can you share a little bit about the the mission of the academy? So you know why does that academy exist and and what is it that it does for its members?

Well, that's that's easy. So the AAPMR or the American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehab is a national medical specialty organization. It's the largest one. We have over 10,000 physicians who are specialists in physical medicine and rehab or physiatry. And we represent— there are members in all 50 states as well as 41 countries. So we're national. Very cool.

Yeah, very cool.

We were founded in 1938. And our Academy's goal really, just as the Academy, is to lead the advancement of our specialty or physiatry's impact throughout health And this really, we're trying to position our specialty for success now, as well as in the future. You asked about the vision statement that's on our website, and I'll just share a couple thoughts.

Yeah.

One, our vision that we as physiatrists are essential medical experts in value-based care, evaluation, diagnosis, and management of neuro, Musculoskeletal, so that's a big word, and disabling conditions. We're indispensable leaders of directing rehabilitation and recovery, as well as preventing injury and disease, things that you mentioned, as well as vital in optimizing outcomes and function early and throughout. So we, our goal is really to be early. So we like being working with our primary care providers, trying to help people before something gets chronic. There are lots of ways that, you know, we can help people throughout. So those are— that's our big vision statement for our academy.

Yeah, no, I love it. It's very encompassing and very direct. I mean, you read that, you hear that, and you're like, okay, I know exactly what the academy does. Now, we've talked a lot— so the big setup for the digital question, right? We've talked a lot about what physiatrists do, And, you know, the whole specialty and things like that. Surely with digital transformation, you've had to embrace— and, you know, the pandemic, right? Digital tools. Can you speak about, you know, sort of how your specialty has evolved that way?

Sure. So I'd say all of us, like all physicians, are deep in the use of electronic medical records. And we're concerned, like other physicians, about some of the administrative time with You know, finishing charts, etc. So that's just one concern. But really, I took an Epic user, superuser class a million years ago, and I've got a refresher coming up. So that's certainly one tool. But really, as a specialty, we have been so fortunate to work with a fantastic group of industry partners as well that are helping us redefine many aspects of our care. And our specialty really has been quick to embrace telehealth. I love doing telehealth. Um, I love to see my patients virtually. I think it's a very neat way to meet them where they are, to see their pets, to observe them in their own environment.

Yeah.

And it's, for physical medicine, you know, I said 10,000, so there, we're not, we're not the largest specialty. So it's a great way for us to reach out to our patients and our providers and to maybe to see folks in rural communities and underserved areas. I mentioned pediatric rehab. There aren't that many pediatric rehab physicians taking care of kids with, say, cerebral palsy, or, you know, just one example.

Yeah.

So it's a great way to, say, to extend what we're doing. And from an academy perspective, we have really worked to increase patient access to rehabilitation by supporting telehealth expansion, and we continue to advocate for telehealth reimbursement. We developed a white paper addressing telehealth innovations in physiatry, or physical medicine and rehabilitation, as well as the range of practical telehealth educational resources for our members. And certainly you mentioned the pandemic. So we Since 2020, we've been a leader in providing COVID-19 resources for our physicians. We've hosted webinars. We actually, in 2021, had a call of action to President Biden's administration about preparing for the next COVID crisis, meaning long COVID. And if you go onto our website, we have a really cool COVID dashboard, and it shows how many millions of Americans might be experiencing long COVID symptoms. So, you know, there's that kind of a tool. So you're right. So we've used a lot of the digital tools to help our patients, to help improve outcomes, education. So I think that's where we are. And I was listening actually to a very interesting podcast yesterday with Brené did. She interviewed 2 The authors of The Digital Mindset. Have you read that book?

I have. Yeah, it's great.

Oh, really? It sounds really good. It is. I'm on a waitlist for it, but that sounds— it just had a very, um, like, what is digital transformation? And they spoke about data and tools, and I'm hopeful that we can use some of that data to improve our outcomes. So it was interesting.

So, yeah, it's just interesting. The reason I asked that question is, you know, we're— all of us are evolving, and, uh, healthcare in digital transformation and starting to use more digital tools. And, you know, as you were speaking, I'm thinking about— I'm doing a keynote for a big, uh, ortho-related consortium and, you know, talking about, hey, you know, if you do not digitally transform, yeah, you will be disintermediated by those who do. And we're seeing that today already, right, with big tech and Amazon and, you know, and then retail. And there's all sorts of different forces. And, you know, and so it's really important that all the specialties, you know, recognize, hey, you know, there's this, this thing happening and we need to make sure, you know, and it sounds like your, your academy is right there, you know, making sure that all of its members, you know, appreciate, know what sort of digital tools are out there and, and then being super consumer, you know, oriented. I know you, you know all this already because you're at a organization, right, uh, for, you know, at the Cleveland Clinic where, you know, that's sort of ingrained in the—

Yeah.

DNA, if you will. So, yeah, um, no, that's great. Let's, let's transition into just general leadership. So as I mentioned, you know, you're clearly this, uh, great leader, and I was wondering, did— was there ever a moment in time that you thought, uh, oh, I, I am a leader? I mean, was there a moment where that occurred, you know, in your youth, or maybe it was later in, in your career? You know, where you realized, oh, I'm a leader?

Probably not, actually. I guess, you know, in thinking back about leadership, I got involved in volunteering in my professional organizations early. So, you know, that was something that was encouraged during residency to at least be a member of the, say, American Academy of PM&R. And so that's when it started as a volunteer. And then my history of volunteerism and leadership really from my family and my mentors. So, as I mentioned, my mom was a nurse attorney and she was, gosh, a lifelong volunteer and leader, dozens community professional organizations. So, she instilled that love and passion to give back and in volunteering into me.

Wow.

So, it was kind of what I grew up with. And then I found that when I was working with my physician colleagues and let's say the academy, my, the staff, the professional staff the Academy of PM&R. I love that. And I was passionate about how we could continue to escalate our specialty and highlight all the good work that's being done across the country. So that is a long answer to no, I don't really said, oh gosh, I am. It's just kind of some of that, that volunteering and that I showed up. I loved what— I answered my email. So, right. No, Deb, you hit on something really important that people don't mention.

You showed up. So, so it was caught, not necessarily taught. So, right, you had this great upbringing, you see it, it just becomes part of who you are, right? And so it's just a natural thing. It's not like, oh, there was a point in time.

Yeah.

And then, uh, and then you show up, you, you took action, you volunteered. I mean, it's, it's basic stuff, but natural, you know, to you and I, uh, to many, uh, but for some it's not natural. And that's why I like to talk about it, because then it could be like, oh, okay. Yeah, hang out, have mentors, volunteer, say yes, I'll do something. And then the leadership happens. It's kind of like empathy, another topic. I wish we had more time to go down that road because you mentioned it at the top and I'm really into that.

Me too.

And I'm always like, can you teach empathy or do you catch it? So anyways, we'll save that one. That's a deep one. We'll save that one for another time. What's the most important advice someone ever gave you? So again, kind of back on the leadership track, but yeah, you know, was there some sort of advice that, that meant a lot to you?

I think from mom, my mom and Dan would be, go for it. You can do whatever you want. And so that's like, you can do it. And I, I love, uh, I am a Brené Brown groupie and I love her quote, courage is contagious.

Yeah.

And, you know, one of the things I was reflecting back on this question earlier, I was enrolled in a really unique program through the Academy. So, it was going to be Northwestern's Kellogg Business School. So, it was going to be a joint MBA PM&R type of leadership program. But unfortunately, COVID shut it down, canceled it. Couple years, so I listened to a lot of leadership podcasts and I read a lot of books. So those are those are the things that I've done. But I'd say go for it, and and courage is courageous.

Yeah, no, I love those. And how do you recharge your batteries? You know, you're you already mentioned you got a husband of thirty years. You got two children. You have a busy practice. You're yeah, you're doing all this volunteerism. You're part of the academy. How do you recharge your batteries?

We we are avid walkers. So Dan and I walk all the time with our. Our dog, Dakota. And to me, walking is a great way that I can talk about the day.

We can—

Yeah. And it's good for my, my head. And, uh, and when the kids are home, we can do that. And then we really got into cycling. I know you are an avid cyclist as well, especially with the pandemic. So we, Dan and I, really, we have explored most of the national park near our house, as well as many biking trails in Ohio. We'd love to do a little bit more biking outside of— now that we can travel a little bit more. And we love to trek. Listen to podcasts. Yeah. But yeah, so I'd say walking, cycling, those are, those are the things that help me recharge. Yeah.

And that was another thing, right, about the Cleveland, Ohio area is like the, uh, I forget what it's called, the Ring, but it's amazing for those who are not familiar. Yeah, the, the whole forest, it's all connected through bike paths. And every time I get— I go up to Cleveland still quite a bit. And every time I get there, I love to get out there on the pathway and run or whatever. Yeah, uh, cycling.

It's gorgeous.

It's such a great, great place. It's very underrated.

It is.

Um, wow, Deb, we spoke about so many things from, um, the academy, about leadership, about family, uh, just tons of stuff packed into 30 minutes. Is there something that we missed, uh, that you'd like to comment on, or something we did talk about that you want to double down on?

Nothing specific, Ed. I just really appreciate the opportunity to highlight my specialty of physical medicine and rehab, or physiatry, and to highlight the good work that's being done by a number of physiatrists across the country. So I'm just really grateful for that opportunity. So thank you.

Awesome. No, thanks again, Deb, for being our guest on Digital Voices. You're an amazing person. I'm glad we Reconnected after 20 years.

I know.

And LinkedIn. Yeah. So next time I'm up there in your neck of the woods, I'll have to let you and Dan know, and maybe we'll be able to go walk or cycle.

Yeah, we would love to cycle with you, take you to Blossom.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. At the time of a good concert.

Yeah.

All right, well, if you— hopefully you learned a lot today. I know I did. But also check out Blossom, right? Yes. Good live outdoor amphitheater type of music. So again, Ed Marx, Digital Voices. Thanks for listening.

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