Life-Agile (ft. Sophy Lu)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Welcome to Digital Voices. This is Ed, and I'm with my producer, Megan. Hey Megan, shout out to you. Hello.

Hey Ed, glad to be here.

Megan, we have another awesome guest this week, and it's We don't have an official series, but we could have gone back and actually made one of really inspiring women leaders. And what is one thing that you've really enjoyed about having all these inspirational women leaders on our podcast?

I've enjoyed getting to hear a little bit about their journeys, and really, it's inspiring to me that Pretty much all of them are moms. They have families. They're doing all of this at the same time. And it just, you know, goes to show that women can do anything and we're out there and we're making a difference.

Yes. No, I love that. So I'm really excited to introduce everyone to Sophie. And Sophie, I wanted to welcome you to Digital Voices.

Hello, Ed. Thank you for inviting me to join in your podcast. Very excited. Uh, as I said earlier, uh, this is probably my first podcast and, uh, very much enjoyed our conversation when we first met in person. And so, uh, looking forward to sharing and having more open dialogue. Totally unprepared.

Yeah, no, that's the best way, you know, cause, uh, Peggy and I were talking about this, the, the one, the individuals that have come on and we love everyone. So there's nothing negative. But the ones that were overly prepared, like they actually had a marketing department and PR like go through all the questions and prep them, and you could tell they rehearsed the answers. It's kind of boring. This is— we're more unplugged. Like, we're real people. We're, we're not overly— we purposely don't overly engineer digital voices. It's just like real people. That's who we are. And that, that's what's cool about you, Sophie. And I, I love meeting with you, uh, in New York. And I think that was really the first time that we had met. And we just had this great conversation, like 2 individual CIOs, you know, talking about work and life, and you're just such a great person. So I know that you currently serve as the SVP and Chief Information Officer at Northwell Health, but more than that, you're just, like we said, an awesome person, a great leader. And yeah, so we're gonna jump into that. So a couple questions. These are our 2 standard questions we have for everyone. What are songs on your playlist? So like, if we got your iPhone or whatever you listen to, or your Spotify, like, what kind of music do you like to listen to?

So I think you'll find that I like all sorts of genre and actually dip my toe into many different new music by extension of my daughter, who's 18. So, you know, you'll see my music span all the way from the Beatles to Jimmy Buffett. to Imagine Dragons, to Adele, to some of the, I think, the newer music.

So what about any sort of— is there a life message or a quote or a mantra or something that— words that you live by?

I think that the words I live by is to just enjoy life. Enjoy every simple and complex moment and really try to make a difference in your everyday, whether that is small or big. But, you know, be intentional.

I love that. That's good stuff. So, Sophie, can you share a little bit about us, your story, personal, professional, you know, sort of, you know, where you grew up all the way to, you know, where you are today, sort of everything in between, you know, some things you want to highlight.

Sure. So I was born in Taiwan and came over at about age of 7. I was tricked to come over here to go to Disneyland, ended up realizing that I was never to return, and eventually migrated across country on Greyhound into New York and ended up settling in upstate New York probably within that year. Grew up and went all the way through high school there, and then eventually moved into Pennsylvania for college and probably my initial career paths. And then was able to study chemical engineering and practice as a chemical engineer for about 7 years or so before I took a leap into technology and started within consulting. in industrial gases and consumer goods, and then leaped into healthcare probably about 20 years ago and stayed ever since. Never looked back because I felt like it was— the work to be done in healthcare was very tangible, and there was a lot to advance and evolve in healthcare in America, for sure. And so the work has never been— never slowed down and ever more rewarding still through the years.

Yeah, that's awesome. And what about Taiwan? Have you gone back? Do you go back on a regular basis?

I have not, unfortunately. I think the last time I was back in Taiwan was probably close to about 20 years ago, 20 years or so ago. And at that time, I was visiting my grandparents, grandparents back in the days, but most of my family are all out of Taiwan by now.

Yeah.

So I haven't had the chance. But even within when I left at 7 and then when I went back probably 10 years later, it has evolved so much from, you know, it became— I was from Taipei, so the urbanness and the, The congestion and where I used to play in the parks were all gone. It was very industrialized, but again, it advanced a lot. So see how fast—

Yeah, and when you think about your journey, I mean, you're obviously a CE, chemical engineering. It's like the hardest engineering discipline, I think, in terms of academics.

Don't say that too loud. Other engineers would not like that.

And you're in your position today, Do you think some of that experience you had to go through as 7 years old, you know, going from something you were familiar with, this brand new country, do you think there was something in there that, that helped you to become who you are today?

Oh, absolutely. Um, and it was interesting because I would tell you a long story short, uh, when I used to travel in consulting, you know, you used to stay in these long-term hotels and you always see You know, same weekly folks that you go to breakfast with in the breakfast lounge. And I met this gentleman, and I always like to meet with different people, kind of have open conversations, just catch up. And one gentleman came to me and basically we had a small conversation about the same, like, how did you grow up? What is your background? And so on and so forth. And he had said, yeah, I've noticed as we dialogue and just kind of getting to know you, you're very adaptable and you listen and you kind of consume and assume, and then you sort of adapt it and evolve it into sort of your conversations and your considerations. And I never even really thought about that, but I think that it just complements, I think, what I always encourage my children and encourage a lot of people to do is Not only do you want to have interests that you go deep in and you invest time in and you open up your mind about to become, you know, and maybe you want to become an expert in it, or maybe it will complement your skill set or your knowledge. But with all that said, you need to be a continuous learner. I want my kids to learn to learn, right? Because I don't think you can ever stop learning, and you can never stop really applying what you've learned through experience, through conversations, through cultures. And whether you call that adaptable or it's a complement of your tool belt that enables you to sort of mix it all up and reflect upon it And look at it from different perspectives. And, and, you know, people, you think about in technology, we're always trying to evolve into agile nowadays, right? This is life agileness. How, how do you, you know, always learn, communicate, adapt? And I think the experience, whether I chose it or was forced upon me in life, Uh, has always, um, enabled me to be open to listening, learning, and adapting.

Yeah. That's super interesting, you know, cuz I'm studying a lot about resilience today and we talk about that in the business world, but also on the personal side and how do you cultivate resilience? And I, I think I'm fortunate in the same way that you are, Sophie. You know, we're both immigrants and, uh, our parents came over and so we had to sort of adapt. And I love the term you used, life Agile, and we just kind of were forced into it, and it just became, right, part of our DNA. And so when we run into things in work environments, stuff like that, we're probably pretty much similar in terms of, all right, we'll roll with it, you know, let's go with it.

Yes.

And that's— it's natural for us, but for a lot of people, uh, it's a little bit of a struggle. And, uh, so that's why I was so interested in your answer. It's good, and it's something like you were sharing, it can be developed through Continuous learning, opening up yourself to new ideas and experiences. And that whole, I think a lot of our listeners understand agile, but then applying that to yourself as a person, that's, I think that's really good.

I love it.

So that's good stuff. So I wanna jump into sort of, you know, 2 or 3 areas here. The first is I wanna talk a little bit about Northwell Health, and then I wanna talk about, you know, quote unquote, you know, I always do the air quotes, but digital transformation. I know, overused word, But then really finish up on leadership, which was what we basically started with. So can you share one thing about Northwell Health that many people might not know? You know, because obviously in New York, everyone knows about New York, but this audience is pretty global. Is there, is there some fun fact or something about Northwell Health that not everyone knows?

Well, I was trying to think, you know, obviously we're the largest employer in New York. That may be very common. I don't know if you know that we have probably one of the oldest inpatient psychiatric facilities. And thinking about the world today and how we want to commit to mental health, we continue to evolve and grow that vertical and service that need. in the community. More fun facts. I don't know if people also know we have a partnership with an organization upstate, but it is a town that invests in a whole— the whole community, from farming to living to small community businesses, to the— to special needs children through adults. And I haven't had a chance to visit, but I think it's really very special. And I think that we really need to think more, and I'll just continue the theme of, you know, mental health and special needs. Um, especially in the world that we live in today, uh, I do think we need to reflect and think about how to service, um, more and more of the population that, uh, very, very, uh, much needed.

Yeah, no, that's cool. Yeah. And we'll drop that in the show notes too. Um, that, that unique collaboration that you have with the actual, uh, city in, in your, in your area. So that's, that's really cool.

Yeah.

So you mentioned already that you grew up— I mean, after your consulting, you moved over into healthcare, and you've been at Northwell Health for quite some time, which is really remarkable and admirable. And so you sort of worked your way up. Can you share maybe one or two things? Maybe it's the culture, or one or two things that have helped you to stay and grow within the organization? I mean, you aspired Now you're the CIO, you know, you're at the top from a tech digital point of view. Right.

So I've been with Northwell Health for about 13 years. And what really inspires or inspires me about Northwell is that it is definitely an organization that is very forward-thinking. It is, it looks at the healthcare as sort of a, holistic healthcare concept. So it is more than taking care of the sick. It's more than encouraging wellness, but it is how do you extend that wellness to service the community, whether that is, you know, you'll hear Northwell and Michael talk about gun violence. You'll hear the assistance that we give to Ukraine for our telehealth services in times of need. You talk— we talk about also outreaching internationally beyond Ukraine, but we help insert in services for healthcare and mentoring in other underserved countries. And how does that come full circle into— I'll go back to the communities in the social determinants of health, but also just even reaching out during the pandemic. in figuring out what is needed, whether that is vaccines or whether that is just extension of food or elderly services or religion for that matter.

Right.

Through the community or faith, I guess, is something that we think holistically.

Yeah.

So I think that really matters, right? Because your job is sort of boundaryless in the impact that you aspire to make. You really— oh, and also education, don't forget. So I truly believe in both of those concepts in order for us to evolve healthcare. And I think that the values and the ability to have the leadership involvement and mission to service all of those things are inspirational. I mean, that is— that means so much more every day than let's say, your budget or your operational things, even though they're all very important. But what inspires me to continue to stay is because I feel like I'm serving a larger mission and making a difference.

Yeah, it is. It is a remarkable organization. And, you know, you're very fortunate. And one of the reasons that you sort of mentioned it, that you stay, is you have just a fabulous CEO, right, who Very progressive, very forward-thinking. It's been there a while. You've got a lot of stability and it provides a great culture, I can only imagine. So that's really cool.

And all of us walk our talk.

Yeah.

So I think the inspiration from Michael and all of the organization really walk our talk, right? We don't only go on a podcast or go speak about it publicly. You know, a lot of our leaders really go out into the field and service the community.

Yeah, no, that's very special. And I can sense the authenticity from you. And I know a couple of your colleagues as well. They're just equally as fabulous. So let's switch over to a sort of digital transformation. You know, right now we're recording in Q1 of 2023, and there's a lot of financial headwinds for many organizations, and margins are down to the negative as an average. And do you recommend, you know, so if you're a CIO listening or a CDO listening to this podcast, you know, would you recommend, you know, Generally, like more investment into tech or less investment? How do you view things like, you know, when you're in these financial headwinds?

I think you can never stop investing into tech, just like I feel like you can never stop investing in good people. I think that we always need to take the long view rather than the short view. In the crunch times and in times of stress, you can't lose the long view of what you're aspiring to do and with risk considerations and think about what are your priorities to double down on. If you look back in whether it's tech or people, you want to then make sure that in everything you invest in, it is intentional and it's needed against your risk, right? And that you are— when you invest in something, that that is also providing the efficiencies or the return in the timeline to minimize your risk and bring value back. At the same time, you need to measure regularly, right? The, you know, the industry changes, the world changes, we change with it. And so you need to be iterative on your measurements of how you're doing, whether you are hitting the targets as you anticipated, and whether your risks are still the same. I know it's very general, but if you go back to, you know, a lot of my peers and Northwell as a whole, are doubling down in technology investment because healthcare is behind in technology, and we all understand that we need technology to evolve. And I do wish that in 3 years from now we don't talk about the word digital transformation anymore and use some other word, or the word digital just kind of goes away. But when you are doing your digital transformation, you're also looking at modernizing your tech stack. You're looking at evolving the usage of your data platforms and your data in general. And anything that you're doing and investing in that you have, you're focusing on the people who are delivering the work, right?

Yeah.

And the work that we're delivering is healthcare. And so when it comes to efficiency, you're trying to make sure you are You're mitigating the talent gap or the clinician burnout in the things that you're thinking of. And they don't have to be big and sexy, sort of magical pixie dust innovative initiatives.

Right.

They could just be, we call it, how do you optimize the interstitial space to really help someone do their work every day? And every little bit for every one person times 80,000+ counts.

Yeah, absolutely right.

If you modernize and invest in standardizing your ecosystem, you then— it entails reduced your operational costs, but also leap into optimizing your speed of delivery for transformation.

Yeah, no, that's good words of wisdom right there. Yeah, a lot of organizations, they do this, hey, we're struggling with finances. Let's cut 10% equal out of every department. And that to me is just— that's from like 30 years ago, I don't know, 20 years ago. You need to think much more strategically. And so, yeah. And then your whole— the last concept, you know, I talk a lot about moving from pockets of brilliance to an enterprise of excellence. So, Yeah, you can have these great shiny object things, but sometimes it's just the bread and butter things that you need to do to make the organization more efficient, more productive. And it's, yeah, 1 times 80,000 instead of 10 times, you know, instead of 0.1 times 80,000. So no, that's really good. Where do you think we might be headed as an industry in the next— it's too hard to go too far out. But maybe 3 years, you know, with technology, what do you think will be mainstream that perhaps today is experimental? Or are there some things that you're thinking about that most people are just thinking it's, you know, too far out?

Right. I think that, you know, as you've talked to a lot of our peers in healthcare, a lot of folks in digital transformation talk about enhancing the consumer experience, enhancing the engagement and the personalization of the patient, their families, and whatnot. I think that is table stakes. I think that is something that either is here or needs to be here fairly quickly. And then we talk about the partnership, and that is where I think we're still figuring out as an industry is how do you optimize and leverage technology for the clinician? And the discussion about AI and the discussion about automation in the operations is still evolving. And the perception of healthcare being personalized and having to practice at the top of your degree or your profession, does the automation and technology take away from that? Now, that's both from a clinician perspective and could be from a patient's perspective. So I think that all needs to be refined. And I think that there is a balance there that we need to discuss. Discover and prove out and have the adoption and the belief of those personas to be able to leap and accelerate those capabilities. And I think Last but not least, if we talk about 3 years from now, do I think healthcare will ever become— a lot of people compare it to the financial or the travel industry. I don't think so. Do you think healthcare is going to be Amazon or it's going to be, you know, I'll just call it Walmart of the future? Yeah, parts of it, maybe. But the large pieces of that pie, I do not. I still think it's very unique.

Yeah.

And it is the practice of medicine, the study of medicine, the research of medicine, both from a delivery and, you know, staying well ahead of that curve, uh, is still very different than just general consumerism.

I, I think you're, you're right on. We can learn a lot from other industries, certainly take a lot of what they do and apply it to healthcare, but in no way do we want to necessarily be like that industry. We want to take the best parts of those, and because healthcare is A bit, uh, unique and very personal, obviously, for, for, uh, for obvious reasons. So anyways, let's move into, um, I, I really curious your thoughts. So some listeners, maybe, uh, and it could be men too, uh, but you know, we already established you're of Asian descent, you're a woman, you've achieved great things, you're an inspirational role model. You heard Megan in the very beginning, she didn't know you had kids. you have kids, you've done all this stuff, balancing everything. What's maybe one piece of advice you might give to someone who's like, maybe they're a manager or director that's listening and they listen to you and they're like, Sophie Liu, I wanna be like her. And again, it could be a man too, but what would be your advice?

Well, first you don't wanna be like Sophie Liu. You wanna be whoever you are and whatever brand you want to present and whatever, Mark you want to make in the world, right? So staying true to yourself—that's first and foremost. I also think nothing is impossible, and you have to have the chutzpah to take that leap, to say you're good enough, and network, and get sponsor and mentorship, and and and and discover. What are the possibilities? I also think that, I think that you need to open up your mind about the possibilities of roles matching the sort of your career, your passion, or your career desire. Title may not be it, and titles don't exist Today for tomorrow. And so I think that you need to aspire and follow your truth and be brave enough to go after it.

Yeah. I love all those things. I just wanna keep going down there, but for the sake of time.

I can't keep it up.

For the sake of time. So let me do a, what do you call it? Like a bullet round or super fast round. I have 2 or 3 more questions and If we'll just do them really fast. So the first one is best advice you ever received.

Life happens when you're planning.

Love it. What about how do you stay current and keep an eye on the future? I talk to people like you, Ed. Okay, and here here's my my last one in this speed round is. What's the hardest decision you ever had to make? You can take a little bit more, more than 10 seconds on this.

That is a hard one. Yeah, that I stayed for my husband instead of going to Singapore to open an office. Or, or maybe you could just say, uh, I had to choose between career or love, and at that point in my life, I chose love.

I like that. I like those both. I, I think it worked out for you for sure.

No, no, absolutely. But I still look back and I said, what What if? I mean, he just wouldn't come with me. It doesn't mean— I mean, I assume we would still have been together, but yeah.

Uh, that's good. I love that. So Sophie, we talked about a lot of stuff. We talked about sort of life in general, and, and your background was just so fascinating, and coming over from Taiwan when you were 7. We talked about resiliency and life agile, and we talked about how do you create resiliency within yourself. Then we talked about Northwell Health, and then we talked about a little bit about, quote unquote, digital transformation, technology, where we're headed. And then we ended with a lot of really good advice in terms of leadership and growing yourself. What did we miss or anything you want to double down on as I give you the last word?

I think that I cannot emphasize— and I was really happy that we talked about this— I cannot emphasize enough that I think we started with adaptable. And I think the piece, if I had to leave behind, would be, you know, for everyone to take a look around and not only within your career, but also in life and be adaptable, be learning. And be willing to take a chance for yourself or for others to make a difference, whatever that may be. I think a lot of times we spend, we spend time analyzing or paralyzed about a decision, whether that's life or work. And I'm not saying that we should not always process and think. I just think that sometimes we get paralyzed or we are, uh, more risk-averse and we, we kind of miss the bigger point.

Yeah.

Take those words in all things— life, play, or work. Yeah. And I think that it will serve you well.

Yeah, Sophie, this, this has been just full of remarkable ideas and concepts for individuals who are on their journeys. I love that. I love the whole last part about taking risks. Be brave, be you. Really inspirational. Thank you so much. You're a wonderful person, a great leader, part of a great organization. And I really appreciate you being on the podcast as well as my dogs who are barking.

I had a phone, you have a dog. It's all good.

Hey, that wraps up Digital Voices. Thank you.

Thank you, Ed. Thank you for listening to Digital Voices podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review.

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