Rappin‘ All Things DGTL (ft. Jared Johnson)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices Podcast, where we chat digital transformation challenges and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Hey, it's story time. So it's Ed here and excited to have a conversation about the critical role of the chief marketing officer and how that intersects with us chief digital officers. And I remember just through my career journey, my interaction with chief marketing officers, because it was like such a cool title and kind of cool responsibilities, and I was always really, really intrigued by advertising and marketing from the get-go. So when I first became a CIO, I got to serve with Chief Marketing Officer at University Hospitals who had been in a similar position for P&G, so Procter& Gamble. So he came from outside of healthcare and brought a lot of new clever smart thinking into our health system, and we did this complete turnaround. And it wasn't just because marketing, of course it was IT, was a big part of that, but it was everything. Just, we got a new CEO and just a fantastic turnaround story at University Hospitals. But certainly having a chief marketing officer with those kind of chops, you know, having been with Procter& Gamble and consumerism, those sort of things really helped. So that was sort of what my expectation was in terms of chief marketing officers. And then, and I won't pick on any organization, but I just happened in my next organization, I kind of had inflated expectations. And instead it was sort of backwards. It was someone who still used a typewriter actually. And it was funny, they actually had a hidden office where that person's typewriter was. And so I befriended the team because they wanted to do a lot more progressive things. And I remember they showed me the office and sure enough, there was a typewriter and that person put out edicts via typewriter. And then she had— then that person had someone else— oops, I just revealed the gender. That person had someone else, you know, put it in a computer system and those sort of things. And I'm not making fun of that person. I'm just saying, wow, what a dichotomy, what a range from super progressive to let's just say something less than super progressive. And then when I came to New York City, it went back to this huge progressive side where I got to serve with an amazing, amazing chief marketing officer. And then again at the clinic, another amazing chief marketing officer. He had come from Delta. So he actually had 3 careers and he's going to be a guest on our show as well, but he was in financial services doing CMO type of activities, then for Delta Airlines, and then the Cleveland Clinic where he's been for quite some time. So that's sort of my expectation, but it really made me think about, wow, you know, what are some of the best practices for working with the chief medical off— not medical officer. Oh, Dan, I'm gonna scrub that again and start back about 10 seconds. So given that experience, I am sure a lot of us as Chief Digital Officers have an uneven experience. So what is the best way to work with a Chief Marketing Officer, and what are some of the best practices? And I can't think of anyone better to talk to me on that topic than Jared Johnson. In fact, from the healthcare rap, I don't know, Jared, I was thinking I should come up with a clever rap or something, but when I spoke spoken with you in the past and seen all the things that you've done in your videos, I was like, wow, I wish I could serve with Jared, you know, in a complementary role as a CDO and a CMO. I think we would do a lot of, uh, a lot of cool things. So same question I ask everyone, Jared, before we get into specific questions for you: what kind of music do you like to listen to, like, in your downtime?

Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot, actually. This is the question that almost stumped me the most, which is funny. I think just because I love so much different music and the one that would leap off my tongue would be U2. And I think we've covered that between you and me before, all the live performances I've seen where I have to rank them between the Rose Bowl and Cowboy State, AT&T Stadium, like all sorts of different experiences. I've always loved them. They'll probably always be the top of the chart. But I think one that's a close Close to them would be Coldplay. I'd say just also because they're a band, right? I think I tend to like bands better than solo artists. I feel like a band, when, when they're really solid musicians, they can put together something better than any of them can as solo artists. And so it's kind of like that interplay between them, like what can they create? And Coldplay is one of those that's, I mean, they're, yeah, they're not too far. They're a stone's throw away from U2, you know, sound-wise.

Yeah.

And they've also had enough songs, I think, over the, over the years that have made me stop in my tracks and make me think like, what, like, what, what is that? I remember still clearly the day in 2003 I first heard Clocks. You know, I could tell you what street I was driving on and what city I was driving on still. Uh, and thinking, wow, like that's not like anything I've normally heard. I felt the same thing about like Viva La Vida when I first heard it. I'm like, what are they doing? This is on like, like pop radio. Like what, what is going on here? So, I just love the way it makes me think. Usually a lot of their lyrics will take me to a different place. And yeah, so a lot, a lot to do that. The caveat will be I've never actually seen them live. So crazy.

Oh, that's, that's something that we'll definitely have to do is go catch a show with them together live, especially as things are opening up here, at least in the United States. And seeing them live would be really, really cool. So I'm just laughing because I had the same experience with Coldplay. So in particular with Fix You, the song Fix You, and I had to look up the lyrics and I like studied them. Like, what does that mean, the dry bones? And, you know, they're so clever and so intellectual in their lyrics. But anyways, it's just, it's, I find it so funny that we have such a similar taste in music, but I cannot rap as well as you can. So I'll give you that. So Jared, What about your life message and mantra? Is there sort of like a North Star or something that keeps you centered? Like, what's your philosophy, main philosophy?

Well, Ed, I can tell you, I wake up every morning with 4 goals, 4 things I try to do every day. And they are build muscle, build my faith, build relationships, and then build a meaningful contribution to the world in some area that I'm interested in. And if I can look back at the end of the day and say I've done all or most of those things that day, then it's been a good day. I mean, genuinely, like, there is a connection between all those parts in my life that's really important to keep balanced.

Yeah, that's cool.

I like that.

And that's easy to remember too, sort of this BUILD. Well, tell us your story. I know you're a digital transformation consultant. You've been a CMO. You're just a really smart and fun person. So, I know our audience wants to get to know you a little bit as we launch in. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, you bet.

I think it's really interesting looking back to say that, like, when I was going to school, the things that I'm passionate about now, the things that I can see being part of my career for the rest of my career, weren't things I learned about in school at all. You know, there was no digital health or digital marketing. At least in their current forms. I mean, sure, there was probably like a basic web coding class. And, you know, that's one thing I learned by hand in Notepad, like, you know, hand typing, you know, and then I remember Dreamweaver coming around, you know, a WYSIWYG editor and thinking, wow, like, this is a game changer. And so, I kind of came up that way. Those were my interests, but those weren't fields yet. They weren't roles yet. And so I'd end up finding my way. I was, I worked through a couple of probably 3 different medical device companies and I'd be in, we didn't even call it digital then. We'd call it like the web marketing or web manager or whatever, web person. And it was before we even called it digital because we just saw one channel, you know, a website. And then there would be a new thing that would come around and it would, you know, the boss would come and say, hey, there's a new thing. It's called an iPhone. Can you go figure out what the business value is of that? Like, do we need to be worried about this thing or figure something out about it? Like, anyway, just go figure it out for us, would you? And so I would do that. Like, I would go study it, I'd go figure it out. And then the next thing would come around and, hey, there's a new thing called Twitter or Facebook or YouTube, whatever. Like, it was definitely a time in the early 2000s, mid, you know, 2005 to 2010.

Yeah.

Where we were, new platforms were coming around. Yeah, then it was an iPad, then it was responsive web design, you know, then it was mobile first. And all these things just kept coming about and they're like, okay, here's the next thing. Can you just go figure that out for us? And it would usually come, you know, I was still embedded in a marketing team, but with a very digital-first role. And so, when I was talking about things, I wasn't talking anything about advertising, you know, kind of what you might expect from a traditional marketing role. And I learned a lot in that type of role in terms of the importance of innovation. And I feel like that's something that's driven me all along. I mean, like, the funny thing is, if anyone knows me by my Twitter handle, it's @JaredPiano. And that's because when I originally signed up, I don't know, 2008, 2009, something like that, like, I was, you know, back in a former lifetime, I never did it professionally, you know, maybe semi-professionally, but I wrote a lot of piano music. Like, I liked just sharing music. And so if you could You know, go in the Wayback Machine and, you know, circa 2008, probably my tweets were all about, hey, the latest song or whatever. And so, another way that just— I think those things blend a lot. It's all about innovating and creating new things and learning how to keep up with the new platform and so forth. So, I mean, my passion is very much in this digital health and digital transformation space. And it's been a lot of fun. It's been a wild ride, though, that's for sure.

Yeah, no, that's a great journey, and I think as a result, that's why you have such rich content and things to share. So you get exposed, given your role, to a lot of the leading-edge thinkers, including yourself. What are some of the trends that you're seeing in digital? I know it's sort of a generic term, but in digital, and who tends to own it? So I know we're talking healthcare, But what are some of the trends that you're seeing and some of the cooler things that some of the health systems are adopting?

Yeah, so I think there's 3 things that we're really trying to fight right now in terms of trends, and they are, I call them Frankenstein, Ferraris, and fatigue. And what I mean by that is first and foremost, the Frankenstein way in which a lot of health systems have put together their martech stack. So their marketing tech stack, and that's all the platforms that are involved in any kind of encounter with a consumer, whether or not they're a patient or not. So that can, that can be a scheduling platform, a find a doctor directory. It can be your, your listings like a Yext or a doctor.com, you know, a platform that's managing all the, the listings when, uh, that, that get published out to Google My Business. And, and a lot of those other listings are platforms that just do that. We've found this glut of point solutions that we've built on and bolted on along the way. Now we're looking back and saying, we probably have a lot of overlap. We don't even know where the data flows between all of these. We've just bolted them on to serve a certain purpose one way or the other. Now we've got to figure out what to do with that and what we can create with it. The good part is we have a lot of the parts we need, to create a better experience for the consumer. But a lot of health systems don't know exactly where to start with that. So that's one thing, kind of this Frankenstein piece together of all these, the martech stack, which tends to either get not included in your main, you know, tech stack when you're talking about your EHR ecosystem, for instance, you're not usually talking about, you know, martech platforms. And yet there are a lot of them that You know, someone in a CDO role is probably the one dealing with that, realizing that there's a lot of data that's going from your third-party scheduling system that's supposed to— that's trying to talk to Epic, you know, or Cerner.

Right.

And actually schedule with them. So, that's one thing. Then Ferraris in the garage is kind of an analogy I've been using a lot. So, with these platforms, especially when you start talking about more probably traditional marketing platforms like a CRM, a customer relationship management database, which will track when, you know, Ed as a consumer has scheduled something based on any kind of advertising he's seen, has responded to anything that's been put out on social media or a blog or has gone to these pages on the website. It's a lot of that type of encounter data about you as a consumer. Then we have consumer data platforms that bring in all sorts of other data about you. This could be anything from a CRM to Salesforce to Adobe to a marketing automation platform. There's just a lot more platforms in the mix. I think it's kind of the theme here. And we have these sitting in the garage and a lot of, if we haven't managed them properly, then it's sitting there and we don't even know where we want to drive it. So, we're just letting it sit there in the garage.

Right.

So, we're fighting that. And then the third one, fatigue. I mean, just overall in a lot of health systems, especially after COVID, we are fighting transformation fatigue. I don't know a better way to put it. Like, we are, we are, we know the expectations are evolving from consumers. We're hearing, you know, the more we've been listening, the more we've listened to patients, the more we're hearing the good and the bad. We're knowing, we know more about the areas we need to improve about their experience. And so, yeah, those are just, those are the themes I'm seeing. And then in terms of like who owns that, I think it's a great question. I wish I had a good answer for you. I think there's a case to be made for several different people to own it. You know, like the case for marketing to own it is that they know consumers. You know, in theory, they ought to know consumer behavior, and they ought to be able to look at some of that data that's being created. The case for the CIO might be that this involves a lot of platforms, and those platforms need to be kept up, maintained, secured, tied together, stood up, supported. So there's a big piece there. And then you look at, you know, ultimately, even ops could probably make a case for owning some of this because it they usually involve business processes. You're talking about scheduling or billing or following up virtual visits. So operations is involved too. So the CDO has the opportunity but also the challenge of kind of putting all those pieces together and saying a lot of times it depends on what the individual capabilities are within your team.

Yeah, that's really insightful. What do you think the ballpark percentage is based on your experience, you know, how you divided things up between Frankenstein, Ferrari in the garage, and fatigue. Where are most organizations? Are they still in the Frankenstein stage, or are a lot of them do have platforms, but they're just not optimizing them? You know, where do most healthcare systems fall?

That's a really good question. I mean, it's somewhere in the middle. I'd say the majority are at least at the stage where they recognize that they're not optimizing all the platforms, that they don't know the capabilities of all of them. There's overlapping features. And it, again, I think it's just, you know, we've created these silos of expertise around each one. A lot of times that hasn't, you know, bubbled up all the way to the CMO. They, if you ask the CMO themselves, they might not know all the capabilities of all the platforms because they may be focused on some of them. It does seem like the majority are at least having those conversations now. I'd say more than half are dealing with the, They're probably in that Ferrari in the garage stage. I think in the last 5, 7, 8 years, majority of health systems have invested in their martech stack. And so, it is sitting there and now they're trying to figure out what to do with it.

Right. Yeah. And I think part of the complexity and maybe some of the reason that we haven't been out there driving as fast or as often as we should be is that ownership issue. And it differs, as you mentioned, you know, sometimes it is the CIO, sometimes the CMO. CDO, and I think it really is probably organizationally dependent and dependent on the particular personalities or culture. So what are some pearls of wisdom that you might have for CDOs? So our audience is largely chief digital officers or those who work for them in all of health and life sciences, and they probably struggle, not everyone, but a fair amount struggle with this whole conundrum that we've been alluding to. So what might be 2 or 3 pearls of wisdom for how a CDO can work well with a CMO?

So, you know, I think it starts with a recognition of the mission and finding some shared goals. Because without that, then this is just going to keep being a turf war between marketing and, you know, CDO, CIO, and CMO. And that's not going to help anybody. We're hopefully moving past that as an industry. So I think if we start recognizing like our mission here is to make healthcare easier, less scary, More convenient, less costly, you know, more effective, more long-lasting, more preventive.

Right.

Let's do our part to do that. And to do that, a lot of that happens digitally now. So, if we really do put the consumer at the first, at the middle of every conversation and every question, it's going to lead us to have a different discussion within our teams. And so, I think that as a focus, The way we start describing that is as an experience ecosystem, you know, where at least an experience focus where we're saying that's the framework we need to live under instead of saying we have platforms, how do they tie together? The question should be, here's what the customer, here's what a consumer, here's what a patient wants. We have data to back that up. Here are the pain points. How can we together create an experience that's better than each of us trying to solve it on our own. So, there's definitely an element of teamwork. That's kind of— that's an element of a leadership philosophy now, which is of not managing individual platforms anymore, but of managing results together. And that shift is one of the most important things that has to happen. And to me, the thing that helps catalyze that is Putting the consumer first, because it's hard to deny.

Right.

You know, that, that, that doesn't— that leads usually to fewer turf wars, because when everyone is trying to put the, the consumer first, we, we think differently. We start innovating in a different way. Our questions change. And instead of saying, hey, how can I protect the thing we've already got? And you start talking about sunk costs, you're more— you're talking more about reducing friction. through an experience. And anyway, that you're going to realize, hey, well, we own right now, we only have, we only, we own this part of the experience, then it, you know, then that data comes from here. Let's have that conversation. I think that's a big piece of it. So managing results and not platforms. And, you know, it's funny because that kind of, you know, when we were talking about bands at the beginning, you know, a band, you know, again, a good band creates music that's better than any of the solo artists on their own. Like, that's what we're talking about here, a good team with a CDO, and all these other relationships in the mix is going to create a better experience than any of those teams can create on their own. So we just have to be thinking that way.

Yeah, and I think it requires a level of humility. So like in a band analogy, you know, you'd probably want to, you know, a lot of people would want to be the front person and they want to be the Bono, but not everyone can. Everyone has a certain role, but your desire should always be about the experience of your fans. And if I'm better off as a bassist and not doing any vocals at all, then, you know, that's, that's a good spot to be in because we're making great music. And, and that's really, I think, some of the approach that needs to happen too, along with these very practical things you suggested, because it'll lead to humility. So I think if the individuals can be humble, it's like, okay, so what? It doesn't officially report to me, but this is the right thing for our patients and the experience. So who cares? Let's just do what's right. And I think sometimes that's a struggle, you know, with different leadership styles along the way. So it really does, a lot of it comes down to humility as well. Jared, you've given some good examples here of how to work really well with CMOs. Is there a strong healthcare tandem that you know of, and what is it about them that makes them strong?

That's a good question. I mean, one that comes to mind immediately is, and I don't think they'd mind me naming them by name, is Northwell Health. Because so their department, it's called Digital Patient Experience. And they've actually pulled out, they don't report up through marketing or IT, but they're the digital health owners, really.

Yeah.

And so as a separate unit, they feel like they've had a lot of success Because those conversations are happening every day with the CIO and the CMO, but they have a director or VP level who's over digital patient experience. And so they are the ones leading the discussions about, you know, about what digital— they have product managers within that team, you know, who are actively trying to continually improve and iterate different parts of the experience. So they're one that comes to mind. Another one that comes to mind is Mercy Health out in St. Louis there. And I think there's more— has more to do with— I don't know if their organization reflects this, but I know the way they see their martech stack is very integrated because they don't even just call it a martech stack. They call it an experience system.

Yeah.

And you're talking like Salesforce, Adobe, and Epic, I believe, is what they're on. And to have those things interplay, to know that, you know, Epic as a walled garden, you know, they have to have, you know, the market, the traditional marketing leadership, the CMO isn't able to get into, you know, and create, you know, connections with Epic, you know, to get back in the way that they'd be able to, you know, they just can't do that on their own.

Yeah.

So even referring to it as an experience system, I think, is something pretty unique and helps them recognize that all of this is giving us data to help us improve this whole healthcare experience for a consumer?

Yeah, so it really does come down— we really hit on some key themes. Culture is really critical, structure, but ultimately, in my opinion anyways, is the humility part. Because I think you could make it work in any structure if you have the right leaders in place who aren't so much concerned about themselves and their little kingdoms, but really what's best for the patient experience. But I love those examples. And I think those are really strong. Let's say you went back, Jared. So I know you're doing great things for the industry and doing a lot of consulting, helping with digital transformation. But let's just say you went back and you became a chief digital officer now for a hospital. And let's talk about sort of your average hospital. So not one like a Northwell or Mercy, which is pretty advanced in these particular areas, but like an average one. So What might be some of your first moves, or what are some low-hanging fruit? The reason I ask this question, just as a part of the setup here, is that a lot of hospitals are just starting out on this journey. Like you said, there's a realization, maybe made some investments, as you pointed out, but haven't really kicked it into, you know, out of first gear. So what might be something, generally speaking, that might be that low-hanging fruit?

So first thing I would do right off the bat is I would do an audit of the martech stack and that Frankenstein mess of point solutions we were talking about. I would map that out and you— there's some basic templates for it. You can even Google and find online, but actually mapping out where they all go. I would— after an audit, I would create a data lake of all the patient data that stems from those from that martech stack. There are several organizations that have done that and talk about improving the operations of everything, forcing everything to go into the same— into a data lake where then you can pull and push all the data that comes from everything. That simplifies the process. And I'm not simplifying how the challenge of doing that, but that was one of the first things I would work towards is creating a data lake. with the— with your marketing data. I would establish a digital culture right away, you know, one that rewards innovative thinking and attempts to eliminate those turf wars by discussing those shared goals on a regular basis. You know, all the talk we've been doing about experience, hey, what are we doing to make healthcare easier for the consumer today? And what are our parts? Those shared goals like that has to be happening right off the bat. And we need to be talking about it on a regular basis because culture, well, as we all know, doesn't happen And digital culture is kind of unique because it oftentimes is kind of like a bright, shiny object. People want to be part of it. They just don't— maybe they're not qualified for it or they just don't know what their part is. There's usually just— there's usually more turf war than normal, it feels like.

Yeah.

When it comes to digital. So, culture is important right off the bat. And then lastly, I would train everybody in basic experience design, human-centered design, and behavior design. And admittedly, I'm kind of a novice at those things, but If I had to pick like one set of skills that's going to help take things to the next level in digital, it's that.

Okay, that's a great segue. So what should I be doing as a— and presumably a lot of the chief digital officers, we already get this, but certainly we also have a lot of crossover listeners that are sort of traditional CIOs. And you just mentioned something, it just caught my attention, and that is, you know, we need more training on experiential design, human-centered design, What else would you recommend for individuals, professionals who want to get into this more, understand it more deeply? What are some other educational things that you might suggest, again, being very pragmatic, that they might look to in order to improve?

Well, that's a great question. I think just basic data literacy. So, you know, some teams are fortunate enough. I know I've had— I've been fortunate enough to have like data scientists on my team. You know, so we, you, you have that level of expertise, but then there's a whole other level where everyone else in any marketing capacity or digital team needs to have a basic level of data literacy and maybe even become what I've heard it referred to as a data enthusiast, you know, so somebody understands the value of it, but isn't necessarily a full, you know, fully fledged data scientist. And again, their work is very important. What I've seen is that they can be talking at kind of a different level and people are nodding their heads in a meeting and like, yeah, we don't know, you know, we really don't understand. understand like what we're supposed to do with this. And so there's an art right there of being able to pull insights from data. I don't think we have a problem getting enough data anymore. It's getting insights from it. Yeah.

Yeah. And what I might add too, it's just hanging out with people inside of healthcare that get it, that you respect, and then people outside of healthcare in other industries where you think, wow, we need some of that in healthcare. Be proactive and learn from them. Let's sort of turn the corner here, Jared, and as we wrap up, you know, where is digital and marketing sort of headed in the future and how can the C-suite best prepare for that future? So kind of where are we headed and what can we do to be, you know, ready to grab hold of it and make things happen?

I love this question. I think, okay, so here's, in my mind, it's pretty clear healthcare is not going back. I think the future of healthcare is more integrated with digital. I don't know if it's fully digital, because we still need face-to-face interactions with clinicians. We always will. So saying it's fully digital is a bit extreme. But it will be more integrated with digital touchpoints along the way. I think healthcare is going to be more preventive. It's not going to be just a sick care model. There's all sorts of reform happening on the financial side. We start talking about value-based care, direct primary care, retail health, there are more options than ever to make things easier. And that, you know, including paying for it. I think healthcare is going to be more experience-driven, more consumer-first. I think it's going to be less about hospitals overall. And I say that kind of with an asterisk, meaning I think the hospital is going to find its new, maybe its true place in the healthcare experience. I think it's going to be deeper and more narrow, where we're not going to want to go to the hospital for all the things that we've gone to in the past. I think there's going to be more options. And so knowing all that, that it's going to be built around cost and convenience, we're going to hear about players coming in and out that have successes and then some that just totally cough it up. You know, and just, you know, lay a goose egg.

Right.

And that's okay. Like, that's gonna happen. I think for the C-suite to prepare for that, first and foremost, from the, you know, from the marketing side, I would say, you know, don't assume that yesterday's marketing reaches today's consumer. We're wasting a lot of time and money on brand marketing that doesn't work anymore, where we could be focusing on a message of convenience. on how we are making things even just a little bit easier for a consumer. And that's even looking to Amazon as an example of, you know, if you had told me that they're, you know, one of the reasons for their success is 2-day shipping, you know, like, sure, you know, making it, making you get, you know, reducing the amount of time to ship something to you. I just wouldn't have guessed that, I guess, when they first started off, like, for that to be the thing. But that's the thing, like, no doubt. And now even 2 days is like forever.

Right.

So, they, they've kind of changed that. Um, I'd also say just embracing experience as your new competitive advantage. And there's a lot to that, but doubling down on reducing friction because that creates word of mouth.

Yep.

Uh, don't be satisfied with just having a virtual visit platform, but continually improve that experience because I, you know, I don't know how your experience has been with virtual visits or telehealth, you know, visits, you know, personally. I can tell you the ones here in my area, admittedly, talking to members of that team, they're like, yeah, it works, but it's clunky. Like the, you know, you got to get a text and an email and then another email and then you get a text when it's ready. And like, you know, you do all these different steps. So if you can focus on even reducing a couple of those steps, then that can be your competitive advantage. Like reduce one click, you know, reduce one login. And then the last thing, I guess, for me would be to actively work to eliminate the culture war, actively create this digital culture, recognize how it's different, but how important it is and how those turf wars in the past haven't helped anything and how can we get past that.

Jared, this has been full of super practical advice, which I expected, plus some good talk about Coldplay and our favorite band, U2. Is there one last thing you want to share with the audience, perhaps double down on something we already talked about or something we didn't cover yet?

Well, I guess I could try a quick little freestyle if that's—

Yeah.

If that's appropriate. That's the best way for me to do this.

Yes.

Yes. Okay. All right. All right. We'll see how this goes. This is a world premiere, so we'll see. No one's heard this except me and my wife. All right.

Awesome.

So here we go. Transformation is the destination. No more time for more procrastination. No more looking back, Jack. Time to break from the pack. Yesterday's gone. It's time to move on. The healthcare experience is pretty complex, so that's the first thing that we should fix. Digital is digital. The patient doesn't care which vertical's in charge, so let's clear the air. Drop the silos. We're all the same team. Patients, docs, nurses, tech, and marketing. How can anyone be satisfied with the way things have always been? Yeah, we've tried. So join us now.

Join the revolution.

Digital health is the evolution.

Status quo?

More like status no. Yeah, digital voices is here. Yeah, come on, let's go.

Awesome. You heard it right here. The world premiere. Wow. For healthcare rap himself, Jared Johnson. I'll probably— he'll probably make me pay royalties now because it's going to be like all over the airwaves, I'm sure. But Jared, that was awesome. You're an amazing person for those who don't know you, but I think it probably came out in our time, just the time that you and I have spent together over the last month or so. You're just a great person and full of wisdom and knowledge and practical experience. And how do people find out more about you? Oh, best—

thanks, by the way. Best way is probably on LinkedIn. I'm always there. I'm usually posting probably every day. I'm also on Twitter @JaredPiano. Um, yeah, and then the, the podcast is called Healthcare Wrap. So yeah, people can find it anywhere.

All right, awesome. Thank you, Jared. Been a blast, and I'll talk to you soon. Take care.

Thanks so much, Ed. Hi, this is John Lynn from the Healthcare IT Today podcast. If you like the latest rumors, insights, and happenings in healthcare IT, you'll enjoy hearing my colleague Colin Hung and myself debate and share the latest happenings from the world of healthcare IT. Find the latest episodes or dig into our archive at healthcareittoday.com, or search for Healthcare IT Today on your favorite podcast application or YouTube. When it comes to healthcare technology, we love this stuff, and we can't wait to have you join in on the discussion of everything health IT. Thank you for listening to Digital Voices Podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed this episode, Subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.