Taking the Cost Out of DGTL Transformation (ft. Matt Love)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices Podcast, where we chat digital transformation challenges and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Digital Voices, Ed Marx here. So this is really going to be fun for me because it's actually a friend of mine that I haven't connected with in like, gosh, Matt, has it been 15 years probably since we last served together at University Hospitals in Cleveland. And so it's kind of fun to get back together. And then I'm just like, so I'm not like dad age over Matt or anything, but I'm like really proud just of what you've done. It's like, oh my gosh, it's like, so how cool is that? So we're gonna, we're gonna jump right into it because Matt's like the president and CEO of Nicklaus Children's Health System. And Megan, before we jump straight to Matt, here's your chance. Have you ever asked a question of a CEO, president and CEO of a hospital or health system, or especially a children's hospital. So here's your chance to ask any question because I know you have a young child yourself. I do. And it's— gosh, I could ask a million questions. But the first one that came to my mind was just really a question about, you know, I'm always interested in the career path, education, training, all the things that sort of led you to your current role and how you landed CEO of Children's Hospital.

So it's always interesting when you look at people's career paths, right? Because you end up getting to where you at, I think part by chance, part by luck, and knowing a lot of great people historically, right, that guide you, right? I'm a big believer in mentors. You know, I look back and I think about folks like Ed and a guy who worked with Kevin Roberts, which I just admire explicitly. He was a CFO person. And Mary Armour, who ran the children's hospitals in Cleveland, you know, kind of bringing all that together. And I think, you know, if you're open and curious and willing to be You know, take adventures and take that next step without knowing what you're going to do, right? And exactly what it's going to look like, which is a little scary at times. But you got to jump in, right? Jump in with both feet and just see where it takes you. I never dreamt of being a CEO of a children's hospital, you know, 20, 30 years ago. But I also never dreamt of being a CFO either. You know, you kind of got to go where the path is. But, you know, being a CEO of a children's hospital, it is wonderful. I mean, I love talking to parents like yourselves and seeing what goes well, what doesn't go well.

It's just—

There's nothing more rewarding than being a CEO of a children's hospital.

Yeah, that's cool. I can only imagine, right, Megan, to be CEO of a children's hospital? It'd be so cool. So Matt and I first met, I think, in 1999. So I showed up at University Hospitals. Matt, you were already there working in finance. You were like a VP in finance. And as your career continued, my career continued, and I became CIO, we had opportunities to work together quite a bit. and try to do some cool things in revenue cycle and finance. And you're right, we both had a common mentor in Kevin Roberts. And I think back, you know, Mary Armour, you know, Tom Zenti when he first arrived and others, it was truly a special magical place. You know, we all were sort of turning things around for all of UH and, you know, we were a key part of it. And then, you know, we sort of grew up and come into our own ourselves now. And so that's kind of cool. You know, one thing that everyone wants to know, of course, of everyone that we interview and have as a guest on our podcast is what songs are on your playlist? So what kind of music do you like to listen to?

I listen to a whole bunch of everything, you know, but, you know, when I'm on an airplane or things like that, you know, I love, uh, I never, you know, I think back when I was a teenager, how would I ever say, like Josh Groban, right? I mean, it's just good music, solid music. So Josh Groban, I love country, you know, I love rock. I mean, so I got a whole bunch of different things on that. I actually have some Frank Sinatra as well. So it's a huge thing, you know, But, you know, one I found recently that I really enjoy when I'm sitting outside is Yacht Rock. So it's on satellite radio now. It's a newer station, and it just, you know, it takes me back to when I was a kid, when you're sitting outside and in the sun and having fun. So I love music, right? It just takes you away.

Yeah, no, that's great. I love asking this question because it gives me more songs for my playlist. What about your passion in life, or do you have like a mantra or a message or some sort of guiding sort of idea that keeps you focused?

Yeah, yeah, you know, I was thinking about that. There's really 2 things, you know. On the personal side, you know, it's a— it's all about family. I'm a family man, you know. I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I'm a grandfather now. I'm gonna be grandfather next week again. Yeah, and that's important, right? I love what I do. I love— I love leading the children's hospital, but my family is really what grounds you. So I think, you know, you gotta— you know, you gotta have that. But the other thing is, you know, do what you love. I've been doing this for a long time, like, like you, and I never think about it as a job, right? It's a passion.

Yeah.

And so if you don't, you know, whether you, you know, whether you run a hospital, whether you run IT, whether you work, you know, you know, outside in the different industries, just you got to love it, right? Life is too short not, not to love what you do.

Yeah, those are great words. I love that, both the family aspect and doing what You love. So we've heard a little bit about your story already as Megan asked that first question, but tell us anything else you want to add to it, both from a personal or professional side, about, you know, how you came to who you are today as a person and as a leader.

I don't know if you know this, Ed, but, you know, I, uh, two, two things I always— people are surprised about, you know, I'm a, I'm a twin, identical twin. So, you know, there's another one of me out there, you know, which, which is a little scary if you ask some people, but, uh, it's good, you know. See, I always had, I always had, you know, kind of someone right next to me my entire life growing up, right?

It was always Always someone there.

And competition came out of that and collaboration and friendship and all this stuff. So folks really don't know that about me. And then the other thing that I'm actually very, very proud of, I actually married my high school sweetheart, right? So been married for almost 30 years now to her. And again, just keeps me grounded in terms of what I do and how I do it and those types of things. Folks ask me a couple of times, oh, Matt, you're an engineer. What's that about? And then you went and tried to be CFO for a little bit, and then you went and did CEO. And so to me, your education is so important, but it's about your experiences. And it's about your willingness to do something different and challenge yourself. I feel very proud of being able to do that, right? There's been times where I've been really scared about taking a brand new job or doing something really good. And you just have to take a risk, right? There's so many times where people will say, I don't want to take a risk. I'm scared, right?

I'm comfortable.

I give people advice. I mean, you got to take a risk, right? So I was almost— I didn't do well my first year at Ohio State, and I almost did not do engineering. I was going to go and do an actuary. Can you imagine me as an actuary? I mean, think about that. But it wasn't going to be fun, right? And so I just jumped right back in and said, let's do this, let's get through there. And you can't ever be afraid of the unknown and trying something different.

Yeah, that's great. And so We sort of established your path has been a little bit— to CEO has been a little bit different than perhaps the norm, sort of that engineering background and then a lot of finance and then suddenly CEO. How did that come about? Did you think about when you were in finance, did you think about, oh, my next move, I'd like to be CEO? Or how did that happen?

No, no, I actually never thought about it, right? Sometimes I still think, well, what did I do? Finance was easy. Don't tell Kevin that because he would probably disagree. But I never thought about it. But then the opportunity came, the job And the board had asked me to kind of step into it. And as I said earlier, I don't want to be afraid of doing something different and trying to take a risk. But yeah, up until the day that I sat down in the chair, I never envisioned myself as a CEO. You look at folks like Tom Zenti and Mary and Fred Rothstein, those folks, you're like, wow, they're on some pedestal. I want to be like them someday. And then one day you wake up and you've kind of been asked to sit in that chair.

Yeah, that's really cool. I had a similar experience recently myself. I was always in the C-suite. CIO or chief digital officer track, and suddenly the CEO position opens up. And I never thought about it either, but like you, I, I love what you say. You know, you have to be sort of fearless and, and take risks and live and follow your passion. What are maybe one or two surprises that came along with being CEO that you didn't think about, you know, when you said yes?

Yeah, it's, uh, well, number one is it makes the finance job look easy, uh, cuz you know, things are pretty, pretty black and white in finance, right? And, and there's a lot of gray and you need to push some things and, and things like that. But, you know, I always thought finance was hard. But, you know, the other part is it's very rewarding. What I didn't do enough when I was in finance, and even when I was in operations in my prior roles, is, you know, walk around and talk to families, right? And talk to the patients, see the kids, participate in— and, you know, we have a fun event almost every single day on this campus, right? We had Batman here yesterday. And so getting out and doing that, that's a lot of fun, right? And so how do you reenergize yourself? Because, you know, being CEO is hard, right? I mean, you're finding out, right? There's so many competing priorities and everyone is trying to do the right things, right? As CEO, no one's ever come to me really with a bad idea, right? But it's around priorities and how do you choose and at what pace? And those are hard decisions, right? And so reenergizing, I love, I love being able— I never would have thought walking through our NICU would reenergize me. And now it does.

Yeah, that's great. And you're pretty prolific on LinkedIn. So anyone listening, you should follow Matt and see Batman and some of the other fun things that take place at the hospital. And yeah, you're right. Just again, you're sort of blessed in a sense in a children's hospital and any hospital really, but especially children's hospital. Just walking around and seeing all the good that happens and all the great care that takes place is a great way to get reenergized. So what's maybe one benefit of being a CEO with CFO-type chops. So obviously, you understand finances pretty well. So I imagine that's a pretty big benefit for you as CEO. Yeah.

I love my current CFO, Dawn. She's absolutely wonderful. But I don't know if I'd want to follow a CFO that became CEO, to be honest with you. But she does wonderful. I think part of it is just the thought process that finance folks bring and engineers bring around You know, let's think through a problem. You know, how do we problem solve that piece of it? And then really connecting the dots because we do what we do and it's really special, but we also have to have a margin.

Yeah.

It doesn't work otherwise in the long run. You know, a bad year here or there, that's all right, that's fine. You know, we have strong balance sheets and those types of things, but how do you connect it back, right? And in terms of when you decide to do this, do this, because most things, again, as I said earlier, Make sense, right? There's really a bad idea, right? The question is, which one do you do first? Which one do you do second? How do you pace it? And thinking through it from a finance lens, I think, is helpful. It's not always the answer because, you know, finance guys and gals can, can really make, uh, some different types of decisions. But I think it's helpful to think through what are the implications.

Yeah, there's definitely an advantage. I know that I feel a little bit at a disadvantage as CEO not having as strong a finance background, but I'm very fortunate to have served with you and Kevin Roberts and some other great finance people that that background has helped me, served me well in my new role. So I know the timing was pretty interesting for you, right, to become CEO, because wasn't it like 2018, 2019, right before the pandemic? So it was almost immediately as you became CEO that you're— bam, you're dealing with the pandemic.

It was actually crazy, right? And I think I was in the role for 6 months or so, and then all of a sudden things started to shut down. And I remember sitting in my office here with some of the leaders and saying, you know, this is gonna be 3 or 4 months, right? And let's think, 'cause, you know, down here we're used to emergency preparedness, right? We have hurricanes.

Right.

But they kind of come and go a couple days, right? And then you may, if it's really bad, you may have some lingering effects, but, you know, we thought, well, 3 or 4 months on this pandemic thing. And, you know, look at us now, what, 2 years later, 2 and a half years later, still working through, you know, some of the challenges and But looking back on that, Ed, I tell you, I mean, we had a newer leadership team come in at about the same time. We had some folks that started right as the pandemic came on board. So they never actually came into the office, some executives. But the pandemic really brought people together, right? I mean, there was a— there's nothing like a common purpose.

Right.

It really gelled the team together. And so from a silver lining perspective, from a team development, it was fantastic. But it was tough. I mean, you know, you think back. You know, almost overnight volumes got decimated, right? Staff got scared. So our physicians in the ED were frightened, appropriately so. I mean, I was frightened, but, you know, look at what we learned, right? I mean, again, it's a learning opportunity for us to be able to say, look how much we've grown over the last couple of years because of the pandemic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's definitely a lot of lessons learned. But yeah, it kind of probably accelerates your whole leadership curve and your teamwork curve, as you're talking about your team development curve, you know, because you were dealing with a with this common challenge and having to rally together. Now, I know from our service previously, you were always sort of hip on technology. You know, you were always, uh, pushing us in IT to, you know, develop improved services, develop better products, that sort of thing. How have you adopted to the digital world, like as a CEO, or, you know, is that something still like important to you and keen to you? Yeah.

You know, I, I think, you know, technology and transformation and digital, I mean, That is part of what— it's in our DNA today, right? It's different than it was 20 years ago. And people adapt at different paces, right? And so the technology and the digital piece, I don't say that's the easy part, but it's the change, the transformational piece, right? You can't— one of my first focuses as I was doing process improvement earlier in my career said, if you automate the current process and you make mistakes, You just make them faster and you don't know it, right? So the change component around the digital piece, I think we as a country, as an industry, we really underestimate that. 'Cause the technology is really pushing us and we have to catch up, I think, from a change perspective. And so, you know, I love the fact that it's impacting, you know, positively in a patient care perspective, right? The data you can get on your devices, right? Your heartbeat, your whatever on your watches and your steps and your calories, all that stuff. But also transferring it or feeding that to parents and even us as patients, as adults, is wonderful, right? Information is powerful. And so I think the more and more we can do that, the better we'll be. And I have a great CIO here. I think I actually think I tried to recruit you at some point and you were like, no, I had enough of that. But he's great because he pushes us, right? And my job is to give him resources. And make, make a difference.

Yeah, that's cool. I would love to serve as a CIO, CDO under some CEO like yourself. And I have met your, your leader there. He's, he's very good. So any cool things that you're all working on, you know, at the Children's Hospital to help patients and families?

Yeah, yeah. So we're doing a couple really cool things. One is, you know, on the front end, we're revamping the registration input processes Much more online, trying to make it easier so you don't have to stand in the lines up front. And we have our challenges, of course, but moving in that direction. And then really the one thing that I'm really excited about, we're actually, uh, we're just starting to putting up a new surgical tower. So it's about 130,000 or 140,000 square feet. You know, I don't want to tell you what the price tag is because it's big, but it's going to be state-of-the-art, right? We're going to have immersive rooms. You know, technology is going to be prevalent. That their operating rooms are gonna be like 800, 900 square feet. I mean, they're gonna be massive.

Yeah, nice.

And so I can't wait. You know, about 2 years before it gets done. I get a little nervous with cranes and hurricane season, but yeah, you know, my construction folks tell me it'll be okay. The new tower is really gonna be a good complement to our pavilion that we put up a couple years ago, so I'm super excited about that.

I'm gonna definitely have to make my way down there just to I'd love to tour your facility and just hang out a bit. And because I know the— you can sense it in your voice, Matt, you know, the passion that you bring to your role and, you know, the vision that you have. I know that even before you got there, the hospital was a very special place. And but I think you've taken it to the next level. So that's pretty cool.

Come down. I'd love to have you. Yeah, it'd be fantastic.

That'd be fun. I definitely need to do it. So how do you keep yourself on point? I struggle with this all the time, Matt. So you're a CEO, you're a leader. You've got to know a little bit about a lot of things. You don't want to fall behind because you've built your career on the fact that you've kept pushing yourself, staying sort of ahead of the curve. So how do you keep yourself on point as a leader to make sure that you don't become that leader that sort of stops growing and doesn't add tremendous value?

Yeah. So learning and education, I mean, in the classroom is important, but Just continually challenging yourself around what you don't know, right? So you think about when you're a kid and you think you know everything. I can't learn anything more. And then as you grow older, you're like, you know, in that last half of your life, right? It's like the book The Halftime, right? The first half, you're actually playing, you know, and then you realize there's a second half. But then the second half, it's actually over at some point, right? And so you change in terms of trying to do, you know, things in the first part of your career to actually making a difference. And so to me, that's kind of where I'm at in terms of, well, how do I help make a difference? So it's not pushing out that next report or whatnot, but it's how do I help the next generation? How do I stay curious enough to help them along to get to where I'm at? I had a blessed mentor in Mary. She would always say, I've done that, Matt. You get up there and you present. And it's like, oh, I really didn't want that. But she's like, wait, now you have to do it. And so my time is now to do that, to remain curious, do some reading, You know, those types of things, but I don't have, you know, a CEO is, you know, I don't have all the answers. Right. And if folks think we do, you know, come sit in the chair. Right. But how do you lead the team? Right. How do you develop people? How do you get things moving along? That's the magic of a CEO. You know, I always said, if you think you're the smartest person in the room, right, you're probably in the wrong room.

Yeah. I always say that. I was like, I want to be the least smartest person in the room.

Right.

That's always my goal. Cause I'm always afraid if I'm the smartest person in the room, we're in big, big trouble. We did that same at, at UH, at University Hospitals. I remember, you know, just as I formed, you know, we had to rebuild IT and that was my litmus test. It's like this, whoever comes in has to know more than me because I'm pretty limited. And thankfully we, we were able to recruit the right people and work with great people like yourself and do some good things. So, you know, now that you're CEO, so you worked with IT your entire career. You know, finance and IT is always close cousins. You and I served together in our teams. And now as a CEO, you know, as you look and you hire a CIO, CDO, what do you think are some of the tools? Because, you know, some of our audience, right, are CDOs and CIOs that are listening or those who aspire to be. So from a CEO perspective, what are some tools that you think an effective CIO, CDO should have, you know, coming into that role?

I'm fortunate enough that my, you know, CIO, CDO is Is a physician. And so bringing that skill set to, you know, to the table and understanding and being able to talk the talk. If you're not a physician, I mean, that's okay. That means you have to complement yourself, right? So you have to hire a great, what, CMIO or a great number 2 or someone that you can connect with on the physician side because, you know, technology will be very useful if people use it. And so between the nurses and the doctors, and so how do you How do you make sure you don't lose it? And that's true for finance folks, right? You can be a great finance person, but if you don't know how things run or operate, you won't be effective. And so it's not about being right, it's about being effective, right? Right. And so I think anything that folks can bring to the table to complement where you're weak, I would encourage any, any CIO or CDO to think of them in those realms.

Yeah, those are some good points of Advice there and, and bring a checkbook.

Yeah.

Bring a checkbook. That's always, that's always helpful. Well, I always tell people though, seriously, it's like, hey, it's great to have these great ideas and they all cost a lot of money to take a lot of investments. So at the same time that you're thinking of these great ideas to bring digital transformation to your organization, bring ideas on how to take cost out of your organization with digital transformation. And that'll be music to the ears of the CFO and certainly the CEO and the board is, yeah, I don't, I don't know that it'll always be dollar for dollar, but Certainly, there are opportunities to bring in new capabilities like robotic process automation or other ways of taking manual processes and automating them and taking costs out. So I think that's a really smart way of trying to convince, getting things approved when you can show that you're all in, you're going to take costs out of the system as well as bringing some new costs to do some transformation.

Yeah. And I think the other thing that I would encourage leaders to think about is, Finance, you ever watch the movie Finding Nemo?

Yeah.

And they talk about sharks, right? Finance are our friends, right? You know, sharks are our friends. And so, you know, IT folks who partner like we did, right? I mean, it worked because we were able to sit down and have tough conversations. You know, everyone's trying to do the right thing and finance is trying to make sure you have enough money to pay the bills, right? And folks are trying to lead us forward on digital transformation and you gotta be able to sit down and work together. Right. So I always say finance are our friends.

Yeah, that's strong wisdom right there coming from a CEO and a former finance person. Yeah. You know, when I was a young second lieutenant in the Army, they, they taught us to become best friends with the, the supply sergeant. You know, like you're a sec— you're like a platoon leader because supply sergeant, he kind of find— he, he or she was a finance person essentially. And, uh, you have to make 'em your best friend. And so that's always been my approach too with finance is like, Hey, you gotta collaborate. You gotta be, you know, work together because you need each other to be successful as an organization. And you certainly did that in your role in finance. And, uh, clearly as CEO, you're bringing that same sort of thought to bear. So, Matt, this has been amazing. The time goes by way too fast. That's why I really do wanna come out and just hang out with you. We talked about, uh, your, your, uh, sort of professional, personal journey and, you know, the importance of Of passion, following the things that you love, you know, having education and experience, challenging yourself. I love I love the things that you talked about: taking risks, challenging yourself, you know, always having that base at the same time. And for you, your family almost been married thirty years, your high school sweetheart. I know you have kids, you have granddad, all that kind of stuff. It's so cool. And things about how to keep yourself sharp over time, how to keep yourself on point, how to work with technology, with digital. We covered tons of area in a very short amount of time. Is there something that we missed or something that you want to sort of double down on? And I kind of give you the last word here.

Yeah, no, I want to thank you, Eddie. I mean, I love following you on LinkedIn and the other place. You're always doing something cool. I wish I could do some of that stuff. It's actually balancing, right? But I just repeat, you got to do what you love, right? This place is is magical, right? I mean, when we help kids walk for the first time and we do certain— I mean, it just, it brings tears to your eyes of joy, right? And there's nothing else, you know, like it. But then also, you know, really appreciate the folks that help you. I don't wanna embarrass them, but, you know, the shout out to Calvin and Mary and Tom. I mean, again, wonderful people. And Don Klein over at Mercy. I mean, so I just wanna make sure if they hear this, you know, that they know that I appreciate everything they've done.

Yeah.

Because I would not be who I am Professionally without some of the great people who taught me the things that I know today.

You're a very humble leader, Matt, and giving credit to a lot of the, a lot of the individuals that helped you along the way. Yeah, I love that. I love those people. I was always inspired by Mary. Kevin for sure mentored me. And it's kind of fun, you know, I'm on the board now of Summa Health in Akron, and I get to hang out with some other people, names you'd recognize, like Ari Jacobs and Randy Langendorfer. And it's kind of fun too. And they were also instrumental in us. And you and I both have a lot to give thanks for, for that UH experience and Tom Zenti, who recently retired, which is hard to believe, but he was there like 20-some years, I think. So yeah, we're very fortunate and blessed individuals. I'm so happy for you and so appreciative of the time that you've taken with us on this podcast. I know that you're busy as a CEO. But you're a very inspirational leader. That's why I wanted you on, not just to catch up, but inspirational person, humble and full of good knowledge for other people. So once again, thank you for being our guest.

My pleasure. And definitely come down anytime. Come down in the winter.

All right. Yes. All right. Well, I think we should all head for the winter in Florida as we wrap up this podcast for Digital Voices. Thanks for listening.

Thank you for listening to Digital Voices podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.