Unveiling the World of Fashion (ft. Alla Eizenberg)

Welcome to Digital Voices, where healthcare and life science leaders explore the real work behind transformation. This podcast is about people, leadership, and the conversations that move healthcare forward. Now your host, Ed Marx.

Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. I love changing things up every couple of weeks and having guests that aren't necessarily healthcare technology or healthcare digital transformation. but in other industries. And today we have a good friend of mine, Professor Ala Eisenberg from Parsons School of Fashion. Ala, welcome to Digital Voices.

Thank you for having me. Very happy to be here.

Yeah, this is so much fun because I think some of my audience knows my background in fashion, although they would never know it by how I dress, but they might know it from some history of me speaking about it. Previously. And so when the two of us met, so we have your husband is awesome. Ram, he's with Contact.io. And so we were having dinner in New York City, fabulous experience. And I got to meet you and we just connected because of this fashion thing. I'm like, oh my gosh, Parsons, that's like the top 4 fashion school in the world. It's right up there with London, Milan, and Paris, if I got the 3 other ones right. And it's like they're in New York City and it's like, wow, a professor is just so amazing. So, Ala, thank you for being on, on this Digital Voices.

Absolutely. It's my pleasure. And here I am in Parsons School of Design, uh, and, uh, right here on 13th Street and very happy to, to talk. I don't know what I can contribute, but I will try.

Well, I, I think all of us always, well, one, you're just a fabulous person, so that's first and foremost, but secondly, I think I think all of us always have questions. I think all of us have some insecurity when it comes to fashion, when it comes to clothes. And so I hope by having you, we'll demystify fashion a little bit and help give people greater confidence. But Alla, before we go further, the most important question is what songs are on your playlist? Like what kind of music do you like to listen to?

Wow. My playlist is very broad from Bach and Beethoven to Chemical Brothers and LCD Soundsystem. And I do. change it quite frequently. So yeah, I know that's probably my top ones.

I love, so Chemical Brothers, that's new. And you mentioned another one right after that. What was that one?

LCD Soundsystem. It's a fabulous New York band. They've been around since, I think, very late '90s. And we're still happy to join the concerts usually they have, like, you know, they do A small tour before the holidays, so almost every year we go to see them. Yeah, and, uh, and it's fun.

And being a New Yorker, I should ask you also about Broadway. Like, what's your— what's the favorite play you ever saw on Broadway?

Oh, that's not a good one to me. I'm less of a theater person, and if yes, then like more like repertory theater. So I would go to watch, I don't know, Brecht or Ibsen, one of the classics. But we do go a lot more to Lincoln Center.

Yeah.

And, uh, we kind of like attend the Philharmonic and the New York Ballet and sometimes opera. So yeah, a lot more there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. That's very cool. So tell us about yourself. Like, obviously your accent's different than mine. Tell us a little bit about who you are. Like, where did you grow up? You know, how did you get to the United States? All that kind of stuff.

Well, I'm, um, my background right now can be summarized by the few hot dots on the map. I was born in Ukraine. My family immigrated to Israel when I was 14, and that's where I basically, I finished my high school and, uh, I went to fashion school, which without me expecting, it turned out to be a very serious fashion school. It was very much, um, founded by Jewish, British Jewish community that were in textile and fashion businesses. And that's why we were very much aligned with, uh, Central Saint Martin. We had many like professors coming and, uh, it was a great education. And after that, I started my career in, uh, womenswear. I designed, uh, for another designer's brand in Israel. And later, Rom and I, we went to Milan because Rom continued his studies, and I thought for me it will be an awesome place to deepen my knowledge of fashion and also my ambition to become a menswear designer. So that's exactly what happened in Milan.

Yeah.

For me, 2 things basically. One, that I started my own brand, which I never actually planned for, but it just happened that way. And second, that I could dive into traditional menswear. And I did a lot of kind of apprenticeship work starting with the shirting, like small workshops for shirting, like custom-made shirts, and then tailoring ateliers. And after I kind of felt that I have enough foundation to start my own, I, uh, started my own brand. That was called Maison Rouge Homme, and, uh, it was menswear and it was a very kind of like innovative for, for that moment. And, um, and we came back to Israel after living in Milan for 3 years. And, uh, yeah, and I had Maison Rouge for 7 years and then we moved to the US.

Yeah, that's cool. Uh, and then you. end up at Parsons and you're, tell us about what you do at Parsons.

So basically I started teaching fashion back in Israel. With my brand came some kind of like certain level of, I don't know, recognition. And, um, I started to be invited to school where I studied to critiques. And, um, and that was very fascinating for me because I could still remember very well how I felt as a student, but Also, there were like a lot of new insight and new kind of challenges that I had to solve while starting my own brand. So when they offered me to teach, I was like, yeah, I want it. And it was from the beginning, really exciting experience for me. So when we moved to the US, I still continued having my own brand, but Then with my son being born, my travel around the world and the, you know, like, and staying in other places, I just decided that I should slow down a bit. And I came to the decision that I want to stop doing my own brand. And that's when I joined Parsons. I mean, my previous experience obviously was very helpful there.

Yeah.

And And from the very beginning when they hired me, I was basically hired to teach, uh, 4th year. It's a graduating year, which is a year-long course called like thesis, which is the main graduating collection. And, you know, like the body of work with which people start their careers in the industry. So yeah, I still do it.

Mm-hmm.

It's one course that kind of like I continued doing through all of my years in Parsons. But, uh, at the meantime, I taught practically every core course on the School of Fashion curriculum. I developed a number of courses. I also did my master's in fashion studies, which is more like theoretical side of fashion and, uh, I also teach theory as well. So yeah, that's very cool. What I do.

At what age do you remember you first had the idea, hey, I want to go to, I want to be in fashion. I want to be in fashion school. Like how, how old were you when this idea first came up?

Well, I probably wouldn't articulate it as I want to be in fashion, but I definitely wanted to make clothes and it was from very, very early.

Yeah.

Stage in my life, basically, like my dream thing, which I never got, was those like tiny sewing machines, but I never had a chance to get one. And, uh, uh, so I like, I went through doing everything I could with just my hands. So that's what brought me to fashion. I think, uh, kind of this word fashion, it's like so mythical, it's so loaded that it often overwhelms really what it really means. And like, what are we doing? It's a lot more human. It's a lot more closer to us.

Well, let's talk a little bit about fashion, you know, in this day and age. And like, for our audience, it's people like Ram, right? He's a fellow healthcare executive. And, you know, we spend a lot of our time not only meeting people in person and going places, but also doing many of these sorts of things where where we're, you know, uh, virtual and having these video meetings. What are one or two words of advice in general that you might give for professionals on dress, on how to dress, how to, you know, I don't want to say too much more, but I'll just leave it open-ended.

Yeah, no, I think that it really connects to what I just said about this weight attached to the word like fashion. We, we almost don't use words like style anymore. And I think that's kind of extremely, extremely important because clothes are extremely influential to how we feel.

Yeah.

So my word of advice, always wear what you feel kind of good with. So I know there are dress codes, there are more expectations to particular jobs or situations, But my advice would be always to find something that somewhere bridges the expected code and something that makes you feel comfortable, feel in your skin, because clothes are the second skin. And when we wear something that we are uncomfortable with, it impacts everything. So it's, it's hard to perform well enough.

Yeah, no, there, there are some really good things. I was just taking notes, but Something that what you said made me think about this. I often talk about the importance of having a personal brand, like who you are, what you're trying to communicate to others. And so you carry yourself in that way to align with your brand. And something you said about style, and I sort of interpreted the same way. Should we be intentional about our style? When I think about how I want to present myself to the world, definitely whatever makes me feel good. And my second Again, that came across loud and clear, but should I sort of be intentional about, hey, this is what makes me feel good. This is my style and I should, I should try to dress in my style.

I think it's a great thing if you can do it and you definitely have it. I mean, we, we met, uh, you know, maybe not so many times, but I can definitely see that you have intention and obviously like your wardrobe reflect things that makes you feel good.

Yeah.

And I think that, uh, but, but style maybe as a goal, it's not something that is interesting for a lot of people or like they can consciously think about it.

Yeah.

So that's why I used more accessible terms.

Yeah.

Like, uh, yeah, you need to wear a suit. Great. So make sure that pants of the suit, uh, something that really like make you feel good, that you don't need to, to be like uncomfortable in this chair or in that position. Yeah. Something that can, or a jacket, and then go from there. Like find the suit that has those qualities.

Yeah.

The same about shirts, you know, like harder collar, softer collar. It's things that doesn't change the nature of the shirt. Shirt will remain the same, but it does change a lot about how you would feel wearing it.

You know, I, I never really thought through it like you're explaining it, but it makes a ton of sense. And I, and I think of how many times, yeah, I probably wore things or still have things in my wardrobe that I'm not comfortable with, but for whatever reason, I would still force myself, maybe because I spent money on it, force myself to wear it. And that's really silly. In a way, and I should be free from that.

Well, I don't want you, I, I don't want to make you feel silly, but, uh, but I think that, like, you know, I am not a good shopper. Like, Ram always tells, tells me that I'm a shopper. I'm not window shopping. I go, I get, I, I'm out. And I really need to sleep on it and understand. And if it's this thing or that thing, it's they could be very much the same. So, I mean, that, that's maybe like personality thread, but I think it's important, like when we definitely shop for clothes to identify from previous experiences what actually worked better.

Yeah, no, it makes, makes a lot of sense. What about in the virtual world? Like, is it, is it different in the virtual world how we dress or present ourselves than if, if it's in person?

I mean, you still need to feel good.

Yeah.

But definitely if we're looking at the screen right now, now our frame, there is a lot more attention to face and like upper body. So even today when I was dressing, I kind of, you know, in the winter I would say sweater is like fine. Yeah, it's winter, but because there is like Only that me, I thought I, I'd better have something here.

Yeah.

To kind of like provide another cue.

Yeah.

So like, I would say that, you know, with women maybe it's easier because there is jewelry, there is makeup. Yeah. There, there are things like that. But I think that at, at the end of the day, it's, uh, it's about just to show that you care. Yeah. Like even if we are on Zoom, even if we can do it from our own bedroom, we still need to show that we care, that we respect the person on the other end.

I like that as well. Yeah. It, you know, cause you're still presenting your brand, like I call it the brand, but also the style. And if you do anything to diminish that, it just, it not only is negative, I think, on you yourself for doing that. But yeah, it's disrespecting the person a little bit that you're meeting with. Like, oh, you're not important enough. I think you're sending like a subconscious message maybe that you're not that important that I'm going to present myself well as if I were there in person. So I think we need, I think I agree with you. We need to be intentional.

Yeah. And also I think even if maybe it comes across as maybe like disrespectful, but then it reflects back on you.

Yeah.

Because if you don't respect yourself, if you don't care, then nobody will. And that's kind of something that I, I say a lot to my students, you know, how you bring clothes, how you speak about clothes. If you call your clothes the stuff, then it means that it doesn't mean anything to you. It's like you don't care.

Yeah. I think we may have had this conversation, but if not, I'll never forget 2 things that really stood out to me when it came— comes to fashion or dress or style. One was my first time as an adult in Paris, and I just, I was wowed. I have to be careful how this is going to come across, but I was just wowed by how I could say the same for men, but I noticed the women, how confident they all seemed walking around compared to when I was in the United States. And I couldn't figure it out. I was like, why are everyone beautiful? And I, and I was like, It's because the way they're dressing and carrying themselves, it had little to do with their physical look. It was their style and the confidence that that brought.

Absolutely. I remember too. I remember being in Paris for the first time. I think I was like 17 and I was really taken by it. Like everybody, and it was winter, it was so cold, but those scarves and those, like, there was so much allure. Like they, they were just like magnetic. Yeah.

And that's a fun thing too. I, you know, many people know I lived in New York City for about 3 years and I love the— so I'm a summer person and more spring, but I ended up liking fall and winter the best because people were dressing up a lot more in New York City than in other cities in the United States. And it was sort of the same thing where, man, the fashion, it was like, it was awesome. And it just made everyone, I just, they walked with more confidence and they just looked better as a result, you know?

Yeah.

And then, yeah, and the other experience I had, and again, I can't recall if I shared this with you or not, but I was on the board of a fashion school, Colorado State University. And we, like the once a year, part of our job was we were at the runway, right? The graduate students were presenting their new fashions and we had a runway. It was like a big fashion show. And I'll never forget, I was so intimidated because I was a judge and I really had no idea what I was doing or Anything, but what the revelation I had was similar where it wasn't the, the model, it was the clothes that gave that model, uh, that confidence or how they carried themselves as opposed to the look of the model. You see what I'm trying to say? I'm trying to say it wasn't how attractive—

You mean like appearance?

Yeah, right. It wasn't how attractive they were as a, their appearance, it was How they carry themselves with the clothes. And I found myself more drawn to those individuals, had little to do with the attractiveness of the model, but I was drawn to those individuals that walked with confidence, had the style, and that it was a complete package. And that, that was just revelation to me.

Right. It's absolutely. And the truth is that this kind of like feeling good in clothes can make even less, you know, less expensive or even less good clothes, because really like not all clothes are made the same. But if you have it, like if you have this charisma, if you have this body language, it makes the garment look so much better. And the same is correct other way. Like you need this synergy, this body and garment, they work together.

Yeah. I love that body and garment working together. It's the synergy. Of that. Um, yeah, this is great. It makes me want to take your course, but the, you know, probably not on design, but on the theory. Uh, this is like—

We should have more of those conversations next time you're in town.

Yeah. You know, next time we're in town, instead of the Met, which, as you know, we've done the Met and done some other fabulous experiences, I'm going to take my colleagues and we'll come visit Parsons and just, uh, learn more about fashion.

We can do that too.

Because the things we're talking about are, while we're talking about fashion, it's really about your confidence and, you know, understanding body and garments. You know, it all comes together and it helps with leadership. Because we are Tech Digital Voices, I have to ask one technical question. How has tech influenced the fashion industry?

Not necessarily for the better. I mean, it's not, it's nothing to do with tech. But I think that what happens is that, um, when we kind of very driven by this agenda, by tech innovation, a lot of things that are very fundamental for human experience, they become really derailed in a way, kind of like depreciated. And that's especially true for like human touch. manual labor, but most importantly, it creates this illusion that everything is a lot easier and a lot less important than tech. And, uh, and I think that something detrimental is happening in the process.

Yeah.

Um, because I think our, one of the things that really like human genius is amazing, it's in this cooperation between, you know, like mind and hand. My number one example for that is actually very close to your area because it's surgeons.

Yeah.

Surgeons, even if they operate with the technology, it's still kind of very intense thinking and hands that actually perform.

Yeah.

And that's correct to art. It's correct to many areas of design. Manual aspects became left behind in a way. We don't have appreciation for them. we kind of forget that manual processes involved also in very serious things that our lives depend on them.

Yeah.

Including making clothes. You know, like clothes don't jump from conveyor lines. Clothes actually are made by hands.

Yes.

And even if there is a sewing machine, somebody still needs to put it together and make sure that it goes in the right way because fabric is like soft and it's It's different way of thinking. So I think, um, it would be great if we could keep space to value those processes. And actually recently I listened to this interview with an artist who's now kind of like very famous. His name is Luc Tuynan. He's a Belgian, uh, Flemish artist. And he was talking about it in relation to iPhone, how he was kind of like very dismissive of all the cell phones. He didn't—

Yeah.

Felt a need to be found in any given moment and, you know, and texting. But when iPhone was out, it was the first time that he kind of like experienced interest in technology because it reconnected again, this kind of, it was technology and hand.

Yeah.

And it was moving together and It made it a lot more intuitive and it related to this kind of like needs that he experiences as an artist. But yeah, but it was the special example where technology considered human and considered human needs.

Yeah, no, that makes total sense. Where do you go when you feel like your creativity is drained a little bit? Do you, is there ever a time where like you're looking for some inspiration and when, when that happens, what do you do?

Like, I think for me it's mostly art. I love art and. I'm very lucky to live in a place like New York City where there is no shortage of that and it doesn't cost any money to enjoy art. So yeah, even if I'm not drained of inspiration, but, uh, I do have some time on my hands, I would go to see gallery shows, museums, whatever comes. Yeah, there's always something.

Yeah, you are lucky to be in New York City for those reasons. This has been amazing conversation. We got some new bands for our play, for our Digital Voices playlist. Uh, Thee Soundsystem, Chemical Brothers. Those are some new ones for us. Learned a lot about you, you know, growing up in Ukraine and Israel, and then how clothes became so important to you or fashion or style design. So that, that was great. And we learned about what you do at Parsons and the work that you do. And then we talked about a lot. advice for dressing for success, uh, the sense of style, wear what makes you feel good, the body and, um, garment connection for synergy. We talk a lot about the virtual side of that as well. And then we sort of ended up on the creative. What did we miss, or is there anything you want to double down on? I'll give you the last word.

I think I already mentioned it, but I want to say it again. Clothes are a lot more than, than those like smoke screens of fashion. It's a lot more about how we are, how we feel.

Yeah.

How we can express ourselves and how our other people read us. And, uh, it's a lot more intuitive and tactile. And, uh, I just want to, you know, kind of like scratch this, this element that very much attached to fashion, which makes fashion or clothes threatening or kind of like creates insecurities about it. It's a lot more fundamental.

Yeah, I love that. It's a great way to end. Ala, you're, you're an amazing person. I'm so glad that the two of us are connected. Looking forward to more opportunities to be together. And thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience on all things style.

Absolutely.

Thank you for listening to Digital Voices. We hope today's conversation sparked ideas, reflection, and connection. Subscribe on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify Podcasts so you don't miss an episode.