103: Technology, Convenience, and Ease of Access: Keys to Optimizing the Elusive "Patient Experience"

Welcome to DSO Secrets. I know what it's like to be an entrepreneur in the dental industry. I've had my ups and downs, just like you. There's so much opportunity to be excited about, but so few resources to get answers. From here on DSO Secrets, we get you those answers so you can change the lives you're meant to bless and achieve your personal success.

When I was working as an associate rat at a school, I never imagined I could own these many practices with

this amount of support. So thank you.

You have helped build my marketing mind

to a whole new level. You have this natural talent, this unique ability.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of DSO Secrets. I am your fearless host, Emmett Scott. And today I'm talking to Al Yudin, CEO and founder of Next Health. Al, thanks for being on the show, my friend.

Yeah, of course. Listen, thank you so much for having me.

Yeah. So you and I have had lots of conversations about life and the future of dentistry, and I thought it'd be good to have you on here just to talk through, really, the patient experience. I think, you know, I know you're deep into NextHealth and that component. We can talk about that. But there's so much competition, if you will, going on around the customer experience. And, you know, before the show, you were on an investor call where, you know, your investors are out of that Silicon Valley world. And I mean, talk about people focused on and having intense conversations around about customer experience. We call patient experience. I mean, it's like if the button's in the wrong place, we don't use apps, right? I mean, it's just like, yeah, that one's so much harder. I had to switch swipe twice to do my stuff. I mean, the individuals in Silicon Valley, I have a lot of respect for the technology development because I think there's a lot we can steal there from how intensely they have to focus on the customer experience. And you were talking to them a little bit about Instacart. And by the way, I was using one of my local stores uses Instacart. And I was using Instacart through the local store. And then maybe I'm slow to the party. I realized Instacart had its own app, right, That I can pay for, and just like an Amazon prime. And now I just can order from a whole slew of stores, and it comes to my front porch there, and it's insane.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're definitely right. I mean, I think, you know, just talking about experience in general Silicon Valley, if you look at Silicon Valley and you're going to reduce it down to something, it's really just making things more convenient. That's all it is, right? You know, you look at Uber, for example, you know, before Uber you'd have to stand on the street or call someone to come to your place and pick you up. Right now it's just, you know, two taps and you got a cab coming to you, right?

And you couldn't rank them when they were terrible, you couldn't rank them. And that's the, that's the real power is they have to be good or I get to rank them two stars and put a comment, you know.

Yep, yep, yep. You know, like, so it's all about making things more convenient. Frictionless for the consumers, Businesses, yes, but more so for the consumers, right? You look at Amazon, it's all about, you know, Amazon is always, always, always focused on reducing down to the time to delivery, right? Like when they first started it was like two weeks, then it's two days, now it's like two hours, right? Always, always pushing themselves, going one step further and further. So the insight that I had at NextHealth when starting the company is that look, so today I'm 27 years old. I started the company, I think when I was 23 or something. And I grew up with the Internet and my experience was that look, day to day speaking, everything that I do is through technology. I can stream a movie, I can call a cab from my phone, I'm having this zoom conversation with you. But when I go to my dentist, it's a whole different world. It's actually jarring. Like that experience difference that you have, right?

All of healthcare is just jarring, right? And I shared this experience. But first of all, when you say Amazon, I was just in, flying southwest and go down to Dallas, love there. And now they have an Amazon market small one. You put your credit card, you walk around, grab everything and walk out. Which kind of feels cool. Cause it feels like you're shoplifting, but you're really not. You just paid for everything. And they've just got these series of cameras that track what you picked up, what you didn't. But it was just another level of, it was kind of eerie convenience. But it was another level of convenience. Then I go over and take my kids to the dock and they hand me stacks of paper that I'm filling out and I'm like, to your point, I love the word. It's a jarring. It's almost our entitlement kicks in so quickly and it becomes our new norm, right? It's like, what do you mean I can't order that? What do you mean I have to fill this? What do you mean I have to put my address in three times? Like, it's just, it's amazing how quickly I mean, I still remember when the iPhone loses the button, right? And like within, you know, 30 seconds, I had to like push the button on my iPad at the time and I'm like, oh man, this is like I did a full body crossfit workout or something.

Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yeah. And you know, I think we were talking about this a couple of days ago as well, which is the rest of the world is, you know, removing the, the buttons from your phone to make it more convenient for you. Now it's, you know, with your face, right? You just look at it and it unlocks. And in the healthcare world we're talking about, does it make sense to have a cfo? Does it make sense to have, you know, head of marketing? Right? The world is, you know, really, really focused on, on, on the consumer experience, while in the health care world, you know, we're talking about just something completely different, right? So anyway, so we designed NextHealth and we built NextHealth with that specifically in mind, right? Which is, you know, we're going to provide you the tools and the services so you can digitize your whole patient experience end to end, you know, from your patients discovering on Google to scheduling an appointment in real time that syncs bidirectionally with whatever practice management system you're using to like filling out their new patient paperwork, paying you, all of it, seamless experience. But at the same time, we built our core technology which is that, you know, synchronizer that we have between like open dental, Eaglesoft, Dentrix, all these different systems. And NextHealth, that core technology is also used by third party developers. So for example, Emmett, I noticed your podcast with SmileDirectClub. So smiled at Club's new product and new service is built on top of our technology, right? So are we not only enabling healthcare providers to digitize and make things more convenient for consumers, but also enabling other companies like SmileDirectClub, maybe working with, to give your patient a seamless experience?

Okay, so as, as a consumer and being, you know, a little step farther than a dentist is from a dental practice, Right? I know you work with them all the time. Dental practice all the time. But as you think about the friction points, the jarring pieces, what are some of the things that you feel like healthcare in general, like needs to solve. And I'll put you on the spot. Like, if you had to prioritize, are there things and whether Next Health has solved them yet or not, you know, other than, like, I want it to be, you know, completely painless, no shots and not have to drill on my teeth or something like that, which that by itself is, you know, the product itself is a little bit painful. But when you think through the like, experience compared to somewhere else, what would be. And I'd be curious, for those who are watching this on our Facebook site, I'd be curious. Things that you think of as a consumer are friction points of dentistry that you'd love to simplify. And for those who are listening to this on the podcast, come over to the so Secrets Facebook page. But how would you order the patient friction points?

That's a great question. I like to think of myself as a product guy. So these are things I actually always think about. For any service, not just healthcare or dental offices, for any product, in terms of priority, the first thing you want to reduce the friction for and the very first thing you want to make the most convenient experience possible is that very, very, very first interaction that the consumer or the customer has with your product. So I'll give you an example, right? I recently bought Tesla and I have the app on my phone, and every time, you know, I walk out and I want to get in the car, I don't do anything. I literally have the, you know, the phone in my pocket and I just walk in. The very first interaction is the most seamless, most frictionless experience you can think of, right? On the other hand, you know, if I want to book, by the way,

for those of us, for those who haven't driven a Tesla yet, if you really want to ruin your life, go drive a Tesla and then get back in your car, I bought a Tesla. We'll wait and see if it actually gets produced someday. But getting back in my truck after, I'm like, this is the most stupid vehicle ever. And I have to do so many things to get from point A to point B. I mean, your brain just immediately gets so entitled so quickly. So sorry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyways, if you look at the whole Tesla experience, right? Like, I have the car, I just walk in. No keys, I don't. I don't push anything. Nothing. I just walk in, right? So I think the same concept applies to everything else in life, right? Especially in the health care world and the dental world, right? If I, you know, the very first interaction I have with any doctor is I Google, like, dentist near me. Right? And what I want to do when I Google dentist near me, I have clear intention of going and seeing a dentist. Right. So your job at that point is to make it as seamless as possible and as beautiful as possible. Is that first touch that the patient has with your office and then the onboarding experience as well. Right. So I should be able to, at 10:00pm, three in the morning, I don't care what time it is, right. Any time of the day, I should be able to click, see availabilities in your office, book myself in. Then I should have all my data, then get synchronized with whatever system you're using. You know, dentrix, Eagle stuff, it doesn't matter. And then I should be able to fill out all my paperwork before I come into the office. All of it seamlessly done. Right? So I would say yeah. Focusing on that very first experience.

I mean, does it really boil down to, like, we don't want to have to talk to anybody anymore? I mean, I hate to say, like, we've become that antisocial, but I hear a lot of dentists as they get their group, like, oh, I'm going to get my call center together. And I'm thinking, as a consumer, we actually don't want to interact with call centers. Right. Like, they're a necessary component. I get it, we have one. But, you know, we even changed the name to patient communication center. Because my thought was at some point this is all texting and chat, isn't it? I mean.

Yep, yep.

I got a call from, from my AC person. I'm like, man, what I wouldn't give to just text them back and say, yes, please come over at that time. Right? But call, be nice to them, say, hello, how is your day?

Right?

All this wasted time when really I just want to, like, text them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think the way that we, we, we framed it recently is that people don't like talking on the phone. I don't think it's that people don't like talking on the phone. I think it's, it's that talking on the phone requires more effort. It's. There's a bigger lag time. It's, you know, there's more friction of me talking to someone explaining things versus me tapping on things. Right? Like, if I can just like have a screen and tap a few times versus if I have to get on the phone, wait for someone to pick up, say hello, have the social manners, all of it, right. It's Just way more friction. Right. So it's really all about convenience, friction, and fidelity. So if you can just reduce the amount of friction you have, people will love it. Right. Like, you know, talking about the Tesla experience again, I popped the wheel on my car. I just got it, too. And I needed, you know, emergency.

Yeah, again, go, drive on, and then don't buy it. And then just realize how painful and difficult your life is. You know, I mean, the pioneers would be proud of us. We have to drive gas vehicles, and they're not even smart. So anyway.

Yeah, yeah. So anyways, I'm pulled out on the side of the road, it's midnight. I pull out the app on my phone and I tap twice, and within 20 minutes, someone was here. I could see it on the map. And they changed my tires and I went back home. Right. So that's what I mean. I could have got on the phone. Right. And, you know, it's an emergency and I have to. I have no choice if I. That's what I had to do. But Tesla didn't force me to go through that experience because, you know, that experience is way more inconvenient and way more effort from the consumer than tapping twice and just sitting in the car and looking at a map of, you know, the. The driver getting here and changing my time. Right. Yeah. So anyways, the broader point is that, yeah, I think. I think it's harmful to. To blame it on the consumer and say, hey, people are just lazy. They don't want to talk on the phone these days. I think it's more so that people want convenience. It's just the fact of human life. And people have expectations from other parts of their lives that they bring to your office as well, and you should meet their expectations.

Yeah. I mean, I think at the end of the day, if you want to be great at marketing, someone once asked me, like, how do you get really good at marketing? How do you come up with good marketing strategy, et cetera? And my answer, as I thought about it, was empathy. And I think as you think about being a great innovator, too, and overcoming constraints in your business, it's really about empathy. I mean, you and I know when you're talking to a dentist owner who says, you know, I hate associates, they're all entitled. All they care about is making money. And they go through this long list of, like, you already know, they're not going to scale very far.

Right.

They just don't have enough of the customer mindset to be able to take care. And the same Thing. If you get in a place where you hate your customers, right, where you're like, patience, they want everything online and they want to be able to text me and they want to, then you're just not going to get as far. Because the reality is, whether they're lazy or not, or they just want convenience, however you want to frame it, they pay the bills, they get to choose. And one of the things that happens in healthcare, which scares the heck out of me, is that people will just choose not to go until it's an emergency, right. If convenience isn't there. And this is where I get a lot of passion around this, this isn't just about building a great business. But health care isn't like Candy Crush where you just say opting out, it's not fun, it's not convenient enough, et cetera, and then your life goes on. If we don't take care of this in health care, and frankly, I feel like primary care didn't take care of it, well, then what you see is it gets deferred because you can't get it deleted, right? And now all these ER clinics pop up to try to handle the fact that no one's having consistent preventative care anymore. So dentistry, I feel like, is like, you know, the last of the Mohicans here and a big opportunity for us to really lead health care. We're the only large healthcare network of providers I know that does proactive preventative care. But the bar's raising on us, right? Like with all this technology, all these requirements, it's not about just sending out a postcard for the six month appointment anymore. Like there's a lot more we have to bring to the game even just to maintain par. I don't know how you feel about that, Al, but you can tell I'm passionate about now.

So the interesting story is when we were first starting out, so I actually was supposed to go to medical school, obviously, ended up not going. And before starting the company, I was working at a doctor's office. Part of it was school, part of it was some other things and it was a primary care office. But as a company, we actually decided instead to focus on dentists. Because out of all the verticals that you can think about within healthcare, dentists tend to be the most entrepreneurial and more innovative. Right. So dentists, dentists generally are leading the pack, but I think there's still so much more work to be done because, you know, like, if I'm a, if I'm a patient, if I'm a consumer, you Know, I get all these convenient experiences elsewhere. And then, you know, dental also tends to be like transactionally. I go, every six months, I get my cleaning, whatever. Right. I bring that same expectation to my dentist and forget about, you know, medical. Right. That's, that's a whole different story there. Yeah, no, I completely.

Yeah, no, it's a, it's a whole other disaster is what it is. And I appreciate that you independently were looking at healthcare and said, okay, our only hope is to maybe go for the dentist. And this is why I get passionate that dentists don't deserve a seat at the table of healthcare. They deserve a seat at the head of the table of healthcare and say, hey guys, you want to know how to take care of patients in a proactive, preventative way? Again, it's almost like a stewardship of mission to really solve health care. When people talk about dentistry integrating into healthcare, you know, for me it's more of dentistry leading healthcare going forward and getting them to really switch the whole system. So I get passionate when I see technology like yours and others that are on DSO secrets and other groups, I'm like, okay, yes, we need this, right? Because otherwise as DSOs, I mean, I remember 10 years ago when I wanted an AR report $2 million later of programming, trying to get this stuff done right. There wasn't guys like you around starting to plug this together. So everything convenience oriented, whether I needed it to take care of the practices, take care of the doctors, take care of the patients, we were having to build all this stuff on our own. And now, luckily, there's a ton of you now starting to build this out. And I think one of the things that you all solved early on and others are coming now is a lot of them solved it for individual practices. You kind of solved it at enterprise level, which gets important for those who have multiple locations. Otherwise you're having 26 different logins or whatever else. So again, it's just entitlement. I want to have one place I log in. I want to be able to do my two way texting, I want to do my, I want to see what my online schedule. You know, I just want one dashboard, not, not multiple. So you guys are getting hit on every front with all this entitlement, right?

Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the biggest things I learned from Jeff Bezos is that customer expectations always go up. They never go down. Like, you will never, ever see your patient expectations of you as a, as a doctor, as a dentist, your office staff, or anyone to, you know, come back and say, hey, my expectation of this reception is lower than it was before. So I'm just happy with whatever she's giving me. People's expectations always go up. And you, you know, like maybe in 2015 you were doing certain things and in 2021 you can't continue to do those things because the world is changing around you and you have to be able to, you know, evolve with them regularly. Right. I mean, going back to the marketing, going back to the marketing topic, right? We have this customer, Dr. Plotnick, Jennifer Plotnick. She has, she has office, like really beautiful office in Williamsburg, Brooklyn and she started three years ago or so and now she has some 10,000 Instagram followers, all organic Instagram followers. And she's just the best at marketing and she has a really nice office. She uses our product and you know, really great experience. And the point that I'm trying to make is that customer expectations will always go up. Right.

So that means those like 1990s, they weren't expecting you to have Instagram. Right. It's like I don't even know who you are. Right. It's like you have an Instagram account, 1990, like, but I bought a, I bought my yellow page ad. That's all I had to do. Right. And I had more customers than I needed. So.

Yeah. And you know, you have patients that go all over from midtown Manhattan to go see her, which is, you know, like a 30 minute drive. And part of it is she's a great dentist, but part of it is also the experience she provides and the image she has. Yeah. So my point is if you don't keep up with it, you're going to get left behind. You don't think you have competition. You do, you'll always have competition.

Yeah. And I really appreciate it. And that might be a good note to end on just because I like in DSO Secrets, what I've liked to focus on is what's the mindsets that we need to have. Like there's a lot of tactical solutions and people will ask me about products and so forth, but really like having you on Al and stuff and other like thought leaders. It's really about can we get everyone the right mindset? Because timing for different products and stuff can be just very varied by different needs. But if you have a forward looking thought process, if you have a customer centric thought process, you will beat out 98% of the population because it's such a tendency to want the world to either, like you said, stay where it's at and not move an expectation or. Or come to you. I mean, I look at, like, practice management software, and it's all built around, like, what a dentist needed. A schedule, a charting and a billing process. You know, there's no CRM solution, there's no texting, there's no communication platform. You know, and in fairness, it wasn't that long ago that was just like getting everybody to go digital. Right?

But.

But the mindset of things being centered around the clinician, that, hey, I paid half a million dollars for this degree, so the world should just come to me. It just. It's a myth. It's not going to happen.

Right.

We have to, like, go take care of them and make life convenient. And as painful as it is for me to be the one to say it, like, emmett, you're destroying my dreams and visions. You know, it's more of, like, if I can let you know how the world really works, then you're not constantly getting stung and disappointed and you're like, okay, I know how the rules of the game are, and it's all around this convenience play. So I don't know if you have other thoughts you'd add to that.

No, no, I would say it really is in all about the world, even in the mindset that you have, you should be customer centric, you should be patient centric, and you should treat your patients like customers. They don't owe you anything. They can go somewhere else right at the end of the day. But, yeah, always having that mindset of stepping up the pace, improving yourself and serving your customers is the way you stay ahead of the game, is the way you have higher revenue patients recommending you. And 99. You said 98%. I would say 99.99% of healthcare practices. And dentists don't think that way. Yeah, I paid $400,000 for my degree. I deserve the world. You don't.

Yeah. You know, and people will ask is, hey, are DSOs taking over the world? Is that where everything's going to go? And my. It's almost like the wrong question to me. It's like, patient convenience is taking over the world. Whoever can do that? Well, I don't care if they're like, you know, like. Like you said, an individual dentist with 10,000 Instagram followers. Right. Can outperform for their little circle any. Yeah. So no patient's going to walk in and say, now what's the DSO that backs you here and supports your clinicians for good care. You know, it's not gonna. It's not gonna happen. So it's really about this mindset of where are you going to get this massive support so that you can take on the massive expectations of patients. That's ultimately what this is all going to come down to. So Al, thank you so much for being on. If people wanted to reach out to you, have more of this conversation or talk to you a little bit about your products and stuff, what's the best way to get a hold of you?

That would be my first name@nexthealth.com that's my email, Al. A M I N@nexthealth.com if you're looking at the video. I think there's some website information behind me as well. They can go to. Yeah, I'm always happy to chat. Really passionate about business, patient experience, products in general. So happy to make room for anyone.

Awesome. Hey Al, thank you so much for being on and appreciate all those listening. Come over to our Facebook site, come into the conversation, help us develop out a better future and until next time, keep smiling.

Thank you for listening to DSO Secrets. Join our community on Facebook @DSO Secrets and get answers and resources to some of your most challenging questions. If you want to get a copy of the seven secrets of any DSO, go to our website at DSO secrets.com and we will get that emailed to you. Remember, don't go at this alone. Let us be your team while you build your team.