147: Accrual Accounting Part 5: Change Management - How To Make the Switch

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to a whole new level. You have this natural talent, this unique ability. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of DSO Secrets. I am Ken Kaufman, your host today and I am so excited and thrilled. We finally are working our way through our five part series on making the move from cash basis to accrual basis accounting. We have as our hosts, or I'm sorry, I'm the host. As our guests we have CFO Holly Williams, CFO Mike Yates, and CFO Nathan Chitty. To the three of you, thank you so much for being on today.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having us.

Great.

Awesome. All right, well, as you guys know, we've got some work to do. We did four episodes, but this one's going to round it all out. I will give just a quick overview. We started this whole series out by just talking about why you should even consider accrual accounting. So go back and listen to that episode if you missed that one. The second one, we talked about the impact on your profit and loss statement or your income statement and how that flows through. The third episode, we talked about the balance sheet and how the conversion to accrual impacts there. And then the most recent version, we actually talked about how it impacts expense recognition. And in this last and final episode, we are going to focus all of our time now on actually the change management, getting our doctors and our practice managers and regional managers and other leaders and CEOs that we support, getting all of them to understand everything that's going on to get to accrual and why it's so great. And what are the most common questions that we should be prepared to answer from them as they're getting accustomed to the new way of things. Holly, I always love kicking this off with you as, as you think about this concept of getting high in from your team and running the change management. What's, what's the first thing that comes to your mind of stakeholders or, you know, of challenges of communicating how this all works?

Well, I mean, you know, the team when you, when you define team, I'm thinking more about the leadership and then also the partners in your organization. And I think if you can talk to them about the ability to clearly be able to forecast the future with a true accrual basis method of accounting, they'll. They'll understand. And it may take some conversation to show them what you're talking about, but it's much, much better to forecast what your future will look like under this method.

Oh, so true. That's one of the huge values of this. Our ability to forecast forward has everything to do with the integrity of the data we're looking at backward. And if it's all cash basis, meaning it's just flowing in and out of the bank account, there could be a lot of interesting and really painful anomalies in there that could cause you to forecast and then make some very painful decisions about the future and how you're going to structure things. That's a great, great point. Thank you for that. Mike. I wanted to touch base with you because I know you guys partner with a lot of your doctors, and sometimes there's some confusion. Not because doctors aren't smart, doctors are actually brilliant. They just never went to business school or accounting school, and they don't have that background or experience about how this all works. Sometimes there's a little bit of confusion about how. Why does this differ from how I'm used to seeing things or the collections that show up over here in this system? Could you maybe walk us through how you've had to take on some of these conversations with your conversion to accrual?

Yeah, so. And I think you touched on the key differences. They live and die by their production report, their collection report. And then, you know, we. We've made a big focus to also get them living by their P and L, obviously, two different methods of accounting. So what. What I've had to do is, is explain to them a lot of what Holly just said, why the timing matters. You know, how we can use today's activity to project, you know, tomorrow's collections. You know, one of the things that I've recently started doing is, is actually walking them through a statement of cash flows, because they'll ask the question, these are my collections. My income statement's not showing it. And so I'm literally walking them through. Okay, inventory changed. That's money that's sitting on your shelves. AR went way up. Yeah. You had all these production, but we haven't been paid for it yet. And I was actually really surprised. It seems to really Strike home. It's a logical enough method for them that they can just say, oh well that kind of explains it. But it's really been trial and error with each doctor to get them to understand the differences between the two and why a huge collection month doesn't necessarily mean a huge net income.

Yeah, it's so important because we want to have a trust relationship with our doctors and we want them to feel comfortable and be able to trust the financial information that we're putting, putting in front of them. So, so critical. Nathan, what have you got?

So I want to echo what Mike said. I had a conversation with the doc about the, about their practice and bringing in that cash flow statement at the practice level really allowed an understanding of the difference between, you know, the cash on the bottom line and what you've got to, what you've got to spend. So it's at the practice level a cash flow statement and just bringing it up that, you know, there are three statements that people who rely on financial statements look at income statement, balance sheet and the cash flow statement. I think it can articulate something that people can go back and study if you, if you generate that. Yeah.

And just one other follow up comment. It's, it's also very enlightening to show a doctor and hopefully you're not showing this too often but to show them a month where there's a negative cash from operations, you know, it really, it really strikes home with them that you know, this, this isn't, this isn't cash basis anymore. It's not just, you know, how much money do I have left in the bank at the end of the month? Because if you have a negative cash flow from operations, it's going to make next month tough without some source of funding. So it's been really helpful.

That's right.

The other thing I think it helps in interjecting that is you're able to see the investment in capex more clearly to highlight that particularly of your distributions are, you know, for us the distributions are based on after CapEx, you know, to the partner DOC and debt service if the debt is at the practice level.

Yeah, that's a great point. Hey Nathan, if you could check your sound really quick. We're getting a little bit of an echo. It's a great point because the interesting thing about all of this is there's so much emphasis on ebitda, so much emphasis on what's your ebitda, what's your EBITDA and those in finance. And I'm going to point the finger of blame at us. Sometimes we take a very lazy shortcut and say, well, EBITDA is that's your cash, that's what you're generating. But the reality is that doesn't include all the fixed assets or capex purchases. It doesn't include principal payment on debt, doesn't include interest payment on debt, because we know that's already excluded. And there are other pieces of the puzzle that can get really, really messy and that you can miss. And so it's really helpful to make sure. And again, Mike, I just want to articulate this clearly. There are three financial statements you should care about, not one. We all think. Most operators think, I'm a P and L operator, I'm going to run my business based on P and L. But there's a balance sheet and there's a statement of cash flow. And I don't know how the three of you would vote on this, but if I could only have one of the three every month, I would take the statement of cash flow over the operational piece because that tells me what's really flowing, what's really happening and where the hangups are inside the organization. And because also remember up at the top, it starts with net income and then you add those things back so you can kind of shortcut your way and figure out what EBITDA is there. But then it shows you what's really going on with cash flow in your organization. So the next thing I want to talk about is and we can kind of go around this. So there's one thing about, you know, our doctors and making sure that they understand it. Sometimes our CEOs struggle with this type of a conversion and really understanding what this means and then, and sometimes the rest of the leadership team. So think about non clinical, non patient facing folks who are helping build your organization and really shore up your processes and your scalability in your organization. Sometimes they struggle with this. I'm curious, Holly. You know, you went through the transition and Mike, you went through the transition with CEOs who were used to being cash basis and they went to accrual and leadership teams. Maybe, Holly, I'll pick on you first. Does anything stick out as, you know, things that it took a minute to get everybody to really understand what was going on and the change. And then I'd love to hear if they like it better now or if they still say, oh, I still wish we were cash basis.

Well, no, we don't still wish we were cash basis. And I will say that we successfully made the transition and the CEO here It was the biggest, the biggest difficult conversation was that adjustment of gross production to net revenue, you know, in that collection rate and what's sitting in that collection rate. But team grasped it and they understood. It took some conversations to show, you know, if we get ahead of our skis, you can really see it on an accrual basis. P and L. But no, I mean, I think everyone here is very pleased and very happy. And it's the forecasting part that has made life easier for all of us, is just to be able to truly have a forecast of what is coming. We have targets of what we expect weekly cash collections to look like. So we still have, you know, reports on collections. It's just based on the fact that we have an accrual basis for our revenue. We can, you know, articulate what we expect to collect every week.

Thank you, Mike. How about on your conversion and just working with the CEO and other business leaders there.

Yeah, I think the exec team has really bought into it. You know, the CEO, we've got multiple MBAs on our exec team, you know, so they understood the three statements, which, which helps, you know, if you trickle that down a little bit to the field. It's funny, one of the things that's really been difficult, which, you know, seems kind of straight is, is inventory and just even getting that concept down of, of why you want to count it, why it's important and why your units are important and, you know, you know those things. But I agree with, with Holly. I mean, you know, we're. The forecasting is key. You know, we're even looking at projections at an individual biller level now to measure performance and compliance with those targets. And, you know, it's just, it just gives you a level of visibility and planning. You just, you just don't have managing off your bank statement.

Yeah, great point, Nathan. Anything to follow up on there?

How's my audio now?

Better?

Okay. I don't have anything to add.

Okay, awesome. So there's another part of change management that I think we may initially underestimate when we go through this process. The accounting and finance team themselves may actually struggle with this change because they're used to cash basis, they're used to a certain way of doing things. It also requires a different skill set because when you go to accrual, you need to know journal entries and you need to have what I call debit and credit chops and know how everything flows through and works in a general ledger and the dual entry element of accounting, just in general. And so Sometimes your current accounting team struggles with, you know, taking on and learning new things, taking on a new mindset, you know, closing down certain things at certain periods. Mike, let me, let me start with you on that. What types of things did you go through just in terms of getting your own internal accounting team on board with the transition?

So we were a little bit unique in that we were making. If you go back a little bit, all of our accounting was outsourced. So I was kind of finance employee number one. And so I kind of got to build the team up from an accrual. I mean, because everybody that I hired, I hired under the assumption this is the way we are going to do it. Let's not think about the bank statement management so much as this is what we're going to do.

They had lots of experience in an accrual accounting environment before you brought them on the team.

Some of both.

Some of both. You know, I've brought in a few people straight out of school, you know, and so there actually have been some discussions on the whiteboard in my office of just old fashioned T accounts to your point. You know, this, this is the way you record it.

Yeah.

Which is great because I think what that's done is it's helped them really foster a good understanding. And so when they get the question from a regional manager or from the CEO, something like that, they're able to answer it the same way I would. So it's been good. The only other place where I won't say we struggled, but it was a little bit of just a constant reminder for a few months was in accounts payable. And just at the end of the month, you know, we've got to get a good clean cutoff. So we really need to push those first three or four days of the month to get everything into the right period. But again, it's, it's now just second nature. I mean, they're, they're telling me now when they're going to close accounting or AP for the month.

Yeah. And I want to hit on something there just to go one layer deeper for the listeners because we sometimes take it for granted. An AP hard close. What we're saying is we tell all our vendors and we tell all our practice managers who get invoices and anyone else who gets invoices, hey, look, we need all of your invoices in for the prior month by the third or the fourth of the following month so that we can get those entered into our books. Because we're trying to capture all of the incurred Expenses during the prior month before on a, on cash basis. It was like, oh, an invoice comes, I'll put it in, I'll pay it whenever. No big deal. This requires a discipline so that your team can get the information they need because you got to get accounts payable done before you can move on to fixed assets. Right. And you can work on depreciation and you can work on other pieces of your financial close that you do on a monthly basis. So I love that you called out accounts payable. I have yet to meet an accounts payable supervisor or accounting person who doesn't try to keep it open longer because there are always those invoices that are trickling in and we're saying, no, we got to get them in and get them closed. So there's a, there's a good, healthy pressure there, but a lot of effort needs to be put in just to get that process dialed in. Any follow up to that, Mike, or pushback on that.

Now we do get, you know, a little bit like you said, of bleeding in. But, but again, I think they, they know and they work closely enough with my accounting team. You know, we, we just have a worksheet that, okay, we're closing this day. Any of those triple invoices, we're going to make an accrual for those and we'll, we'll true them up when you get them. So it's, it's been a, it's been a collaborative effort.

Very nice. Holly, what about you? I know you kind of came in as the transition that was happening, and you were probably making some hires and things, but you probably have some team members that endured through it all too and are still part of the organization. So tell us, tell us how this transition was for you.

Well, I mean, we have a great team here and we have several people that have been here for many, many years. And I think for the accounts payable team, you know, really just paying attention to that invoice date, not when they got it, paying attention to when the product was received versus when they received the invoice, and then even noticing when an invoice is invoicing for periods. So if you get your insurance bill when it comes in at the beginning of July, that's your renewal date. They don't, you know, you don't book the whole thing in the month of July. You spread it out over the 12 months. And so those are the things that I think were the biggest challenge. But, and as far as closing ap, we do the same thing. You know, Mike's, team is doing as we kind of close AP and then we do we see that something's missing, we'll go ahead and make an approval for it. True it up when it comes in.

Very nice. Any other challenges? Just with your accounting team in general. Just changing the mindset to where everything is accrual, really.

Honestly, we built the team kind of as I was coming in. Like you said, I came in kind of during the transition. And so we did have to add senior accountants and general ledger accountants who, you know, were more on the debit and credit side, as you say, you know, they're more doing the accruals, the prepaid expense analysis, you know, approved payroll, those type of things. And so, you know, a lot of schedules that they have to build out to book the correct entries.

Very nice. Nathan, how about you?

I think there's also a leadership sales job. And what I'm referring to is that cash basis is so easy. Oh, why do we need to hire staff? What's FP&A? You know, there's a degree of professionalism that needs to be explained and justified. And there's also the impact of your external communication with your bank because our implementation of accrual still has bumps in it that causes variation of monthly results, big supply orders, cutoffs of payroll, and so on. So I think there is an internal education process with the leadership that says, hey, you know, the same team, the same number, the same headcount is not gonna. Is not gonna cut it when we have to have accrual accounting. And it's worth it because the credibility that you gain in a consistency of earnings and in the reliability of your numbers is much higher. And particularly as you go up the scale of the scope of your audit work, you know, compilation, review, audit. You know, when you get to that last one that your big banks are going to need, you better have it down and be able to do reporting. We're behind the curve because our bank reporting requirements are massively more than they used to be.

So you guys are transitioning even at this point to catch up with and get your reporting a little bit more robust or even a little bit more professionalized.

Yes.

Awesome. Good. That's great feedback. Yeah, this is heavy lift and it's hard work. One thing that I'll mention, because in the last year or so, our organization's been active in affiliations, in doing these affiliations for the most part, these smaller groups. And I know, Mike, sometimes you do affiliations with one practice at a time. They have cash basis financials and There is a heavy lift to work with and work on and get that affiliated group to come in and get everything moved over and converted to accrual so that you can consolidate all of the financials together. And so that's another piece of professionalization. And I found there aren't a lot of team members out there who really know how to do that, that you can go higher. We ended up, we looked around, but we ended up just working with our team and building up some of those core skill sets and competencies within the team. And some of them would probably tell you they're still not all the way there yet. There's still plenty more to learn and plenty more to get to. But affiliations is another place where once you're cool, you have to be ready. Or else, if you have these two groups, one's on accrual, the other's on cash, just smashing those together, that could maybe last for a minute or two, but you're going to have to get them onto the same basis of accounting in order for anybody to really believe and trust the information. And I should say on accrual, because if it's all cash, everybody knows that it's just not reliable.

Period to period. Right. And I think Holly touched on something that really kind of covers both sides of this. One is, it's a lot of extra work. But two, it really has the opportunity to kind of swing the story, and that's your balance sheet reconciliations, you know, and not just cash, but prepaid assets, deposits. Fix that. You know, all of those things where costs and investments can hide. You know, it's just imperative that those are reconciled and you know what's in there. And they're appropriately accrued and they're appropriately spread out and amortized. But to Nathan's point, that that takes time. I mean, it's, it's, it's a lot of time to sit and build those schedules.

Yeah. And I think a lot, a lot that haven't spent a lot of time with this accrual accounting concept, they don't realize that the power of the balance sheet is that it drives the accuracy of what you see on your income statement. And so you have to go through and tick and tie and reconcile all of those balance sheet accounts every month. And I always, the joke, the controller in my organization, Brilliant. She's phenomenal. She'll say, ken, the month is closed. And I'll say, awesome, where's ebitda? And she'll say, I don't know. But the balance sheet is reconciled. And that's her way of saying, I know it's right. You can go look it up and you can look what EBITDA is. I'm not even focused on that because I'm just making sure everything is completely accurate through the entire system. So if you're looking for a great controller, find out how they report that the month is closed. And that's one little item you could have as you're looking. All right, great feedback so far, guys. And again, the focus is around this change management element. For those of us here on this call doing this podcast together, we think about this all the time, but this is new to our team members and new to everybody else. Mike, I'll pick on you for a second. Does anything else stand out as you're making this transition? And we talked about accounting team, we talked about doctors, owners, and those sorts of things. Are there any other stakeholders that stick out to you that this transition was rough for or that maybe you underestimated the change management for?

I think revenue cycle, again, just because it does flash a new light on their work, you know, in a cash basis, you know, it's. It's, well, how much do we collect? How much is left at the end of the month on the bank statement? And as long as both of those are kind of sort of where you want them to be, revenue cycle kind of gets to fly under the radar a little bit. But when you're looking at agents and you're looking at ar, you're looking at, you know, this much revenue should equate to this much cash, and it's only 80% of that number. It really shines a light on revenue cycle and puts a level of accountability on them that just hasn't been there.

I am so glad you brought that up. One thing that we've been successful with, the same way that you put a time period to close up your AP or accounts payable, we've done something similar with our revenue cycle, where we shoot for by the third business day of the month, because they're going through and looking and auditing at what's happening at the practice level. And they're finding, hey, there are some potential or there are some services that were rendered here, but this claim is missing the doctor's notes. We need to have that doctor get in there and get their notes properly put in, or there's some information missing about blood pressure taken and what it was, or there are various elements that are missing that will stop a claim from being paid. So we spend a fair amount of time and we shoot for the third business day of the month. So, you know, the first day of the next month is a Friday. We'll give it until Tuesday of the following week. And there's just a heavy focus on. Let's make sure all the work that was done, all the services provided by all the doctors and hygienists and everybody. Let's try by the end of the third day to get all of those claims tightened up and submitted wherever they need to go in order to be processed and paid. Holly, how do you guys think about on the revenue side, just from what Mike said and then, and then the perspective I just shared, how do you

think it even a little bit further? And you have these weekly targets based on historical production. That's when your billers, you know, you do have the ability to, to see how it's going to, you know, maybe you have a biller that's struggling particularly. And, you know, if you weren't watching that, you wouldn't notice it because we're still collecting money. We're just not collecting what we expected to collect, you know, based on the production that the doctor had or the clinic had that they're working on. And so it's really interesting to identify gaps. You know, sometimes it's a payer and it's one that, you know, you really probably might have taken you two, three, four months to notice if you were just managing on cash flow. But if you're managing based on targets and you see that gap and you start digging into why the gap, you can see it a lot faster.

Very nice. Yeah. Nathan, love to hear your perspective here.

So one thing I would mention is that when people are implementing accrual accounting the easiest, often the easiest one to do is the revenue accrual. And so there may be a tendency to get the revenue accrual right. And then when, then when you have the, the follow on really expense accrual, you're going to experience a, you know, in the first month that you really do the revenue accrual. You're going to be good in the next months when you start to bring those expenses in. Just get ready for a transition period both with your internal and external stakeholders.

Great point. Because you're reaching forward into that next month where you paid payroll and you're pulling it back into this month. You're reaching forward in that month where you paid the payables and you're pulling them into the month where those services or products were provided or incurred, you know, to properly time or match all of it. That's it.

That's a great. For us, this is July is a 3 payroll month. Well, you can, you can figure that out occurring from, from January to June or from February to June, that the actual days and that sort of thing. Or you know, don't delay that where you have the three payroll period yet start earlier. Even if it's an estimate, a curl that you're kind of building up that you can offset that 3 payroll period, that's going to help too.

I think that's right. Great point. And I'll tell you what guys, because one of the biggest value adds of having accrual financials is that they're right and they're accurate. And what that does is it eliminates the argument. And I can't tell you in a cash basis environment before we could get to accrual that I was in before, what I found when I got there was there was an argument about the financial statements and if they're right or wrong. I've shared this on this podcast before and the argument is, well, wait, no, no, last month didn't we have three payrolls? Wait, no, no, last month, no, no, that one, that one customer, remember they owed us a bunch of money and they didn't pay us. That. That's why, that's why the financials look the way they do. The beautiful thing about accrual is excuse goes away and it's truth that's in front of you or I should say our best estimate of truth, net net. Once it's all said and done. Holly, what have you got?

So I will say that, you know, some people might get concerned if you're booking your net revenue and maybe you're not watching AR like you would your cash collections from a month to month basis. But you know, to Mike's point, the spotlight does kind of come on to revenue cycle. Are you really performing to expectation? And you don't want to have the conversation eight months in that, you know what, we're not going to collect this ar. We've already recognized the revenue and so this month we got to make a big write off. And so you really, really want to make sure that you're watching that AR balance and that your revenue cycle team is working off the agings, they're working their appeals and they're trying to collect the revenue that you expect them to collect. And if they're not collecting it, then you need to visit your calculation for net AR or net revenue.

Good point, Nathan, go ahead.

Quick cross reference to the 45 minute or hour section that we had at the Dallas Immersive. When your company's AR revenue cycle, people talked about their experience of what they kind of uncovered. To Holly's point, you know, you think everything's going great because of how you're reporting something. And that 45 minutes was really enlightening to me about how someone can kind of peel back the layers that may be occurring in the revenue cycle management that they're, they're not up for because, you know, as far as they were going, everybody's doing a great job. But maybe not.

That's right.

Yeah. It is a continual effort because you know, when you're making the switch to accrual accounting, you do the study, you look at your data, you come up with your collection rate and you know, off you go. But if you don't revisit it and you're not paying attention, you could end up with some issues.

Yeah, you have to do that look back. You have to do the look back. What I've been told is best practices quarterly, maybe not monthly, but quarterly. You should do that look back, see if, see what you missed. Because ultimately, right, we're making a best estimate of what, what we will collect that becomes net revenue. So we've got to look back and see what did we actually collect. This requires you to use the practice management software maybe differently than you're using it. You've got to post your payments in there, you've got to put the, the, you've got to connect it to the actual, what the EOB says. You've got to connect it to the actual procedure where you can so that it ties back to the date of service. Because accrual accounting is not about when you get paid, it's about what date you're getting paid for, what date of service you're getting paid for. So again, I could, we could go on here, but we're about, we're about out of time. So let's do a round robin. So think for just a second, guys, what, what sticks out to you is maybe one final takeaway you want to give the listeners that will kind of just summarize and cap this five part series that we've done. Nathan, I know you're usually quick to the quick on this one, so how about we start with you, we'll go to Mike and we'll end with Holly.

So I would emphasize communication and not making the assumptions that your teammates, even in your accounting department, your bank, don't make assumptions about what they know and don't know about what you're doing really try to make it a good conversation that maybe happens more than once with these key stakeholders so that they, you know, they really understand. Because a lot of people won't, you know, they won't admit when something's quite like what did that really mean? But I don't want to look dumb, you know, so that's my takeaway is communication.

Great point. Mike, what's your wrap up comments?

Yeah, I agree 100% with communication. I think the other thing is accrual statements for anybody. And I know in this industry it's pretty widespread. It allows you to speak the same language as your bank. It allows you to speak the same language as your partner. You know, they, I won't say they don't care about cash basis. Obviously cash makes the, makes it go around. But they're looking at accrual basis comparatives and it allows you to speak the same language to become apples to apples and really to present the most accurate financial information you can.

Awesome. Holly.

I agree with both of them. I do think, you know, the approval basis method will allow you to forecast and tell your story really well. You know, if you're looking for investors or you have investors, think about it this way. If you yourself was going, you were going to invest in a business, you would want to look at their financial statements and you would want to believe that they're true and accurate. You would want to know what that company has as far as assets and what they owe. And that's really what this is coming to, is bringing your own business into that same level of sophistication so that you can have the same conversations with future investors.

Very nice. All right, so some of my final observations, and I think we mentioned some of this in the very first episode, but just to reset some, most are probably asking themselves, when do I make the change or make the switch to accrual? If you've got one or two or three practices, probably not going to be super critical, maybe even five if you're getting up to 10. You really have to start thinking about this because accrual drives accuracy and you don't have to worry like your financial statements are going to tell you what's happening in those 10 locations. Because there's no way you or your team can be in every single location every day checking up and seeing everything that's going on. So this is somewhere probably between five and 10 practices or if you're at three or four and you know you're going to go to 10 because you're buying or you're, you've got bank loans all set up to get you there, do de novos, whatever your plan is, you really should be thinking about this sooner than later. And at the end of the day I always come back to and Holly, what you said really resonated there at the end which is if you were going to invest in something, wouldn't you want to actually have an accurate picture of what's going on in that business and not a bunch of just what flowed in and out of the bank account, but actually know performance wise what's happening that really, that resonates because ultimately accru drives accuracy. And if there's anything that will give you more clarity and more confidence about growing your organization, it's having total clarity about where you've been financially and the ability. Like you said, Holly and Nathan and Mike hit on this too to forecast forward to so you can see into your future and you can properly plan and you just, you just make so many better decisions. I hate to oversell it, but I kind of have to oversell it. Accrual accounting is absolutely the way to go. And of course as we're wrapping up, I have to just throw my one comment out which is Mike and Holly and Nathan, you guys know it's an accrual world out there. We've all got to watch out and be careful. But again, the three of you for participating in various sessions of this five part series cannot thank each of you enough for being a part of it.

Thank you, thank you.

Thanks for putting this together.

Yeah, you're welcome. And many, many thanks to all of you listening in today. Make sure if you've got questions about accrual accounting to come over to the DSO Secrets Facebook page. We will get after it and nerd out to your heart's content there on any of these types of subjects or anything else. Dental finance. Because that's just, that's what we do and that's what we love to think about and talk about all day long. Many, many thanks to all of you for joining. This is a wrap for the five part series on accrual accounting. Happy day.

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