189: Women Leaders in Group Dentistry

So there's so much room for winning for women in leadership positions that we have nothing to be worried. There is no scarcity to be had. Right? There is room for all of us at the table. And so I love the humility and the willingness to learn.

Hi, I'm Emmett Scott, and just like you, I've had my ups and downs in the dental industry, but times are changing. The DEO has built a map of how to succeed in one of the most challenging industries to navigate. On this show, we talk to dental industry leaders, solve problems, and get you the answers you need to face these challenging times and Thrive. Welco to DEO's Growth Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Now let's get started.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of DEO Growth Secrets podcast. My name is Amber Nish. I am your guest host today, filling in for the illustrious Emmett Scott. Today's episode is dedicated to all the strong women in the dental industry. I'm thrilled to facilitate a conversation with three such amazing women and and to dive into what it looks like to be a female leader in today's ever changing environment. We certainly hope to bring some understanding, support, development and excitement around all the opportunities that are available to women in the leadership and dentistry today. So first and foremost, allow me to introduce Ms. Lori Noga, Maya Martin and Cami Worley who have joined me today. Ladies, let's kick it off with a good round of introductions so that our listeners can get to know you all a little bit better. Tell us kind of about your company, your role in the organization, and what you're passionate about now. So, Lori, I'm going to kick it to you. Tell us a little bit about you and introduce yourself to our listeners.

Great. Thanks so much, Amber. So my name is Lori Noga. I am a general dentist. I'm stationed out in Western Washington, just south of Seattle. I have four locations currently. The evolution to get here, it's been a little bit interesting. I actually started out as an actuary prior to even becoming a dentist, and so it's been somewhat of an interesting journey along the way. At this point in time, what am I most passionate about? I think I'm most passionate about people. I've always been passionate about people and people development, and that still stands true today. And I find it, you know, kind of we're in a unique situation now post pandemic and how that's sort of shifting with the change in culture. So that's where I'm spending a lot of my time right now.

Awesome. Love the people development side of things. Maya, you talked a little bit about people development in your organization too. So tell us a little bit about who you are. And again, I know some of your passion is around getting dentists up and trained and tell us what you guys are doing inside your group.

Yeah. Hey, Amber. Hey, guys. My name is Maya Martin. I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina. We have also four locations. I played the role of chief dental officer mostly and I like to think of my dentist whisperer. I am very passionate about sedation dentistry and we can talk more about that later if there is time for it. But I think it attracts a certain type of dentist that really appreciates dentistry and quality. So I'm excited to talk with you guys today.

Awesome. Thanks, Maya. Anybody that claims to be the dentist whisperer, I know we're all going to want to learn from because that is a skill set many of us wish we possessed. And so we're excited to hear from you. And then we invited Ms. Kami Worley, who is one of the DEO operations coaches has been hanging part of the D EO. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing for the D E O, Kami, and what you're excited about right now.

Yeah. Thanks, Amber. And I'm just honored to be here with such strong women. I've known Laurie and Maya now for a few years and just really look up to you and admire not just only strong women that you are, but how you always show up and just lead your people and always are giving to others and sharing your knowledge and experience. So I know I personally have learned a lot from each of you and from Amber in the DEO space. Right now, I am an operations coach, as Amber said. So kind of sharing my knowledge and experience from being in operations with past groups. I helped to grow a mobile dental clinic from five mobile clinics up to 35 mobile clinics and seven standalone clinics anywhere from two operatories to 22 operatories and just learned a ton with that organization and really was able to not only grow my own personal leadership skills, but to help others grow theirs as well. So now I have the opportunity to share everything that I learned and my experiences with other dental groups and leaders as they are trying to grow in their respective leadership skills as well.

That's awesome. I'm super excited. Appreciate everybody being here. By way of quick introduction, I am a coach at the DEO as well. I do a lot of marketing and executive leadership coaching. I was my life has been in marketing in a dso, so I grew up in the DSO Space and was the chief marketing officer for a group that went from about 80 to 74, 75 locations and then transitioned into the DEO to kind of help again, just like Cami said, bring some of the what was poured into me on my journey as a leader and into other groups that are needing some support and some insights as well. So I'm super excited to be facilitating the conversation of this amazing group. I know we were asked to kind of this month it got to be all the ladies because it was International Women's Day. I also know that we, you know, several of us just had the opportunity to go and attend or hear about women in dso. So it's our privilege and opportunity to share some of the insights and our experiences as we grew as women in the industry. So one of the things that always happens and I'd love to hear about and we'll pick on you a little bit first, Maya, is kind of your journey towards leadership in the industry. Where did you start? What got you excited about dentistry and how have you ended up as the self proclaimed and probably much appreciated dentist whisperer inside your organization?

Yeah, I kind of grew up around dentistry. My mother, I actually grew up in Yugoslavia and my mother was a dental assistant in Serbia, which is a little bit of an interesting perspective there because nurses are dental. Like one of the nursing areas is dental assisting. So she was a nurse and she was a dental assistant. So I was always around it and didn't really think I would be a dentist, but ended up doing dentistry and just love it. I feel like it's just a perfect fit for me. And I finished dental school in 2002 at UNC Chapel Hill and did solo practice for about 10 years. And then as the practice grew, I added a first associate in 2013 and then the second one, 15, 16, 18. And then, you know, I just love to learn and I think this is really what's driving this whole process. I never really set out to to do what we're doing, but it's kind of a natural progression of the learning process. You know, once you kind of master one thing, what's next? And so we're now at the multiple locations. Chris and I are working together and joined and we're not exactly sure where it's going to end, but the journey of learning continues.

That's awesome. I love that too because again, I like that as a leader and an owner, you're still calling out that part of your journey is learning and growing and developing and constantly seeking out ways to, to develop your teams. Your doctors, your organization as a whole and that not quite sure where it's going to land you, but if you just keep learning, it'll get you there. I know, Lori, your, your quest, your journey might be a little bit similar. So tell us about kind of how you ended up as an owner of multi locations and leading teams as well.

Yeah, I would say it's similar in the sense that I didn't ever expect to end up here. It wasn't where I was originally aiming. I, like I said I was an actuary before. I just didn't feel fulfilled in that career. I didn't feel like I was having any positive impact on the around me. And so that's what drew me towards dentistry where I set out to just be a dentist. Honestly, I, I went, went into dentistry not even really thinking about the leadership and all of that part of the business. I really just was thinking about the clinical side. So that's all stuff I've had to learn on the fly. And I, I opened my very first practice as a startup. So it was a de novo. It was me and two employees. And at the time it was kind of a fun journey for all of us to just kind of grow into our respective roles in the practice and me as an owner. But what I realized pretty quickly is that I loved watching people develop and being a part of that and creating a place where people could use my organization and the platform to build themselves up in terms of their, their personal and professional skills and development. So that really was what sparked my interest in continuing to grow and scale. And of course we just got busy really quickly and I couldn't even manage everything I was doing. I had, I had opened my doors 28 weeks pregnant and my son came six weeks later prematurely. And so it was totally not expected. The office was insanely busy right off the bat. And so I immediately had to find other help with that because I just couldn't manage all of that myself. And so the story goes, you know, I ended up adding an associate about a year and a half later. And that's really when I think my leadership journey really started, was with that first associate.

Yeah, having to you kind of, it sounds like. And I think a lot of us have ended up in dental a little bit accidentally, a little bit like that's not where I thought I'd be, but I jumped in and. And then you quickly discovered that actually what you love even almost more than the clinical is the leadership side of things and the people side of things. And so for you, the motivation to grow your business has been to grow and provide opportunities for other clinicians, other staff, other team members to have the opportunities to develop, which is awesome. Cami, your journey is a little bit different, but even still, maybe tell us how you landed in dentistry. Was that intentional or accidental? Like, so many claim that they kind of just fell into it. And, like, how did you end up being you? You went through operations leadership, and then, you know, into training and coaching operations at the deo. So tell us about that journey.

Yeah, most of my journey was accidental, but then I think it was also on purpose, too, because I don't believe in coincidences. I believe that opportunities find us when we're looking for them. So I actually started going to school as a nurse. I wanted to be an ER nurse and just had always been interested in the medical field. And my family dentists that I had since I was 8 years old said, well, while you're going to nursing school, your smile needs to be in dentistry, at least for a little bit. I need a dental assistant. Please let me train you. Come work for me while you go to school. So I did, and I just kind of fell in love with dentistry. And then marriage and kids happened, and so I just stayed in that dental. In that dental field. I loved dental assisting. I love the clinical side of things and just being able to serve people in that capacity. And I'm very much a people person, so it was easy for me to step into that role. Worked with him for a few years. I took some time off to raise my kids and my family. That was important to me, to be there for them. And when I came back into dentistry, I worked for a family dental group. They have three locations. And I quickly became a clinical manager for them in one of their locations. And so I was able to kind of up my skill set there, start leading people in the back and running systems and processes and things. My step up to operations leadership, again, was kind of accidental, but also not at the same time. Was around 2008, when the economy kind of crashed and we were going through a hard time. So I picked up a second job as a dental assistant for a mobile dental group. And within a month, they offered me the position of practice manager. And then six months later, asked me to work more hours and take on marketing. And a year after that, I became their first regional manager. And every time that they elevated me, it was like, we love your leadership. We love what you're doing. We want you to do more. What would you like to call yourself? What would you like your Title to

be up your title.

Very interesting to grow a group at that level where everything was just brand new. And it was like, what's your title? So same thing happened when they elevated me to director of operations, overseeing everything operationally in that group again. It was. What would you like your title to be? We know what you want you to do. Everything. What should we call you? And so it was really cool. I had tremendous mentors all through my. My journey and my career, not only in dentistry, but in life as well. I feel like I've always kind of had this leadership scope about me. Like, I know Maya was always into sports and stuff. I played softball, but then I. I danced a lot, and I was on the drill team and was in leadership positions on the drill team my junior and senior year of high school. I did cheerleading in college and was in a leadership position there, you know, and then I coached and taught dance for several years. So it's kind of always been a passion of mine just to help others develop into their best selves and just to be around people. That's what I'm passionate about. Like Lori. I just love that people development. I love to see other people succeed and reach their dreams, and that's really what I'm all about.

Yeah. And why we get to use all of that genius now at the DEO to help our members have that same success. I love your. Your journey, too, because, Cami, it just epitomizes the fact that we all know that operations. We joke about it all the time. Is the junk drawer to the extent of. We're like. We don't even know what to call what you do, but you just do all the things. So whatever you want to call yourself, just keep doing all the things. So I love that. I think everybody mentioned, too, at some point in their career journey, you were not only balancing the growth that you needed to do as a professional, but I heard everybody talk about. And then my kids were born, and then this. I was. I was a wife. I was a partner. I was a parent. So we play a lot of roles, in particular as women in the workforce. And I'm curious how you found balance. Lori, I'll kick it off to you of, like, because again, you mentioned, I'm launching a brand new practice, and now I have a brand new preemie baby. And you had to navigate quite a lot of the roles that you had to play. How did you navigate that and find success, both professionally and personally in that journey, which I'm sure was not an easy one.

Right. And I think this is a question we all ask ourselves, right? Is how do you find balance? But I think there's some misleading that happens with the word balance. I don't know that balance is even something that's achievable. But we, yet we strive for it. And I think that that was me for a lot of years thinking about how do I get more balance, right? Because there wasn't any balance. I just had a newborn premature baby in a brand new practice. There was no such thing as balance. I was exhausted. I mean, that part of my life I don't even remember most of, like that first year. So. So I think I've come to the point where I've realized that balance isn't necessarily something that's achievable, but rather it's an equilibrium, right? So there's a difference there. And with equal equilibrium, you have to give and take, right? To create that flow between all of the different facets of life. And so for me, it's. It's really about what is it that maybe requires more of my time right now and being aware of the thing that I might have to take away from in another area of my life to achieve that. And then it's a decision. It's like, is what I'm going to gain on this side worth the sacrifice that I might have to make on the opposite side, right? And if it's not, then maybe the equilibrium shifts back the other way. But I think that that's really, for me, the question I always have to ask is what is there to gain by. By taking away from some other thing in my life or what's there to lose and what's worth it to me? And that's how I've achieved, I guess I don't call it balance.

I say equilibrium, equilibrium, right?

Because in balance is I'll never have equal amounts of everything, right? I could never equally have time with my family and equally with work or career development. It's really a give and take. That's how I, I've viewed it.

I love that. And I think about balance too, or equilibrium. I love that. Call it in seasonality too. Are you thinking that it needs to be balanced that day, that week, month, right. Or are we looking at this as a season where my equilibrium is heavy on this side and then it will swing? And I know like Cami, you mentioned, like, I chose seasonality and said there's actually a period of time where I'm actually going to stop focusing on work so much. I'm going to focus on my family. So is that kind of how you thought through that decision making and looked at it more in seasonality than in days and weeks?

Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, I mean, that's brilliant. I love the equilibrium idea because balance means that things are the same, right? And they're never going to be the same. It's always going to teeter one way or the other. And, you know, not only when my kids were younger, I made that decision to be with them, but then as they became teenagers and I was in the thick of that growth within the organization. I mean, I was working literally seven days a week because we had a non profit organization where we would go service people in the Ryan White foundation in Northern California. And so I was very involved in that too. So it was pretty much seven days a week I was working on the phone, on my computer, helping people to, you know, achieve the goals that we had set out. And so it was really hard to put the focus where it needed to be when my kids became teenager and I was in the thick of that other space, right? And I was really good at my job. And sometimes I felt I wasn't always really good at parenting because it's so hard. And so. And I would have to check myself and say, am I not doing so well in my parenting and as a mom because I'm putting so much energy over here and do I need to shift? That's really where we have to look at that scale and is it teetering or is it like really off balance? I think that that's.

I agree.

We're never going to find that balance, but we can find a healthy space, right? Whereas if it's teetering way too far, one way or the other, we need to take a look and say, do we need to shift our focus a little bit and do we need to bring a little bit more of our work down so that our family life or our health, you know, you sacrifice your health, you sacrifice so many things for these other areas that we have to focus on, and it just kind of becomes more a balancing act, right? A teeter totter.

Quick interruption to your podcast.

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Now back to the episode.

I love that, Cammie. And I love what you're talking about with. With knowing within yourself, what is my equilibrium? What. What is my seasonality? Maya, how did you think about that for yourself, even against other, whether it was women or men around you, other folks in. In your space, peers, family, friends, co workers that maybe didn't understand the choices you were making because they're your decisions. Right. So that your equilibrium didn't maybe match their equilibrium. How did you kind of think about that and balance that in your own career development?

I think just knowing yourself and doing what's right for you, there are no right answers. You're just, we're all doing the best we can every day and we need to not feel guilty about it. I personally don't like the work life balance phrase because it implies that work is somehow separate from life. And I think what you guys are talking about give and take at any given day, you may have to give more to work or you may have to give more to your family or to your dog or whatever you choose to do. You make it work. So I think women are pretty awesome. I think women are way stronger than men. Don't tell anybody.

I agree.

What we do every day, compared to what guys do and how they complain about stuff, you know, they have no idea.

Yeah, we do wear multiple roles. But I think, and Laurie, you might be able to speak to this too. I think one of the things that we do feel awesome and powerful and strong when we can put all these other hats on. And then sometimes we look around at other women and we assess ourselves against them or we listen to their assessment of us against theirs. Right. Which hats they can wear versus which hats we can wear. So have you seen any of that kind of in your development, Laurie, and felt some of that like, how do I, how do I write set for myself and not listen to either my own insecurities about what other women are doing or my own insecurities about what they are judging me for what I am doing verbally and out loud? Right.

Right. Yeah. There's a lot to unpack there. It sounds like Maya really is like very self aware.

She's so confident.

And I aspire to be Maya. But I think there's so much that. It's our upbringing, it's how we were raised. It's the same. It's the things that our parents taught us are the mindsets that maybe we grew up with that can affect how we take ownership over having our own equilibrium. Right. And so for me, that was a struggle for sure. And it still is. Right. Comparison is the thief of joy. And I do find myself getting caught up in that. And so it's really hard. Or when you have friends who question, you know, why are you spending so much time on work? Why are you putting so much into this business when you have little kids? And so then I have. Then it makes me go back and question myself. Right. So there's always those mindsets and stories that I'm telling myself that I've had to work through to feel confident in the decisions that I'm making. And it's really difficult. I mean, there's, there's no, like Maya said, there's no right way to do this. It's the right, the only right way is the way that's for you. But it's really hard to always have that in mind when you're looking at other people around you, even in your own friend group or some of your closest friends or peers.

It's.

It's a struggle. So. But it's also something that I like to talk about with my team because. Because of the uniqueness of it. Right. And I think this is a lesson that I try to talk about with my leadership quite a bit is what is that equilibrium? Or everybody says they want work life balance when they come on board. Right. I hear that more and more today. And so it's a conversation with that person about what does that mean for you? Because I think what I've done, and this is maybe one of the mistakes I've made, is I've tried to create a lot of systems and platforms thinking that I know work life balance means to the masses. But what I realized is that there isn't one system that necessarily works. And so it is a little bit of a challenge. But I think for us, it's having that conversation just to at least have that understanding and know what their baseline is for work life balance or whatever they're calling it. And that's been helpful. Right. Because everybody is different. And I think that's also helped me work through Some of those stories that I have created in my own mind. Comparison. Right. Is that there isn't a right answer.

Yeah. I love that you're thinking about building systems that work for your people and not assuming that your systems work for everyone. Right. I really felt the pain of this a lot in my career journey. I was the call center director, actually, at the time during COVID and it was a recent promotion, and I'm single mom, five kids, so I needed to be present, and I had kind of the opportunity to take a step back and actually be let go and let the government pay me throughout Covid. Right. Just be in that group. And it was really painful for me to watch. I had moms everywhere, left and right of me on social media, making bread with their kids. During COVID everybody was home and grounded, and I chose deliberately to stay in and show up and work really hard and prioritize my career during that time, which did not match the masses that I was dealing with, especially with. With some of my peers and friends in my circle. And my kids were eating, like, Totino's pizzas and hoping for the best. Like, I was like, please get your schoolwork done. Like, go for a walk with each other. Because I was really dedicated at work, and I knew that it was the right move for me, and it did end up paying off, and it led to me being the chief marketing officer in the organization, and it did facilitate my career growth, and it was the right equilibrium decision for me at the time. But emotionally, it was really hard for me to look around and see all the amazing women that I knew and loved and adored home and on and cherishing that time with their kids and creating those magic memories. And I was like, just literally hoping my kids were awake and on their zoom calls, and I had to make that sacrifice. And I think there are times that we genuinely do have to make those decisions. So I love what's right for you and trying to center out what everybody else finds right for them. So now we have this new generation of women coming into dental and really even creating more. Almost more expectation for what's being deemed as work life balance. Right. Whether it's associates and hygienists wanting to only work two or three days or working a few hours, folks wanting to work from home. Kami, how are you seeing you're in the thick with a lot of our members? How are you seeing them working to strike that balance while still protecting their professional business goals? Like, we're in dentistry. That's a hard one. So how are you teams take that on.

It's really tough because of the expectations of this new workforce that is coming up, right. And so much of it is focused on, you know, mental health. Now we don't only have like a work life balance, but we have the mental health balance as well and trying to help everyone be happy and feel safe and warranted in their work. And it really comes down to more coaching, more communication, having clear communication with your teams, connecting with them. It used to be that we would say leave your baggage at the door and when you're at work, just be at work. And I love that Maya brought that up about how there is no, like, you can't separate work and home anymore. It's all in one life space, right? It's. It all just spills over to one another, especially with that work from home feel. Everybody has laptops and cell phones and so many ways that we can connect to work while we're at home. And so it can be really difficult to separate that sometimes. And I think just being clearing our expectations, having those conversations, like Lori said, with your teams, you know, what does that mean for you to find that equilibrium, to find that balance? Where are you at in your life right now as far as home life, your health, work? What are you willing to give to work and what do you need at home? And then finding what works best for you and your organization because we are in the office. In dentistry, you can't have a dental assistant work from home, right. And you can't have a hygienist work from home. But you can help to maybe look at different shifts for shift work or just being clear in that communication, that connection where we're all human beings and we're all here having a human being experience and we need to really connect on that level. And how can we help you to have the best experience here at work while still meeting the expectations that we need out work?

I love that. Maya, as the chief dental officer in your organization, you're navigating, I'm sure this a lot. New associates hiring and training, and even hygienist clinicians, dental assistants all the way through the organization. How are you guys thinking about the work life or the balance of expectations of time with family time at home and what your business needs? Like kind of tactically, how are you guys taking that on?

Well, in the end, with doctors and hygienists, we haven't had a whole lot of issues with, with them not wanting to work. They. I think what it is is finding people that are really passionate about what they do and then giving them an opportunity to be really good at what they do. So why would they not want to do it? And plus, they make a lot of money ahead, right?

Make sure they're making good money.

So for doctors and hygienists, we've got to figure it out. For the assistants, it's a little bit harder. We're just trying to find those people that really like to move and feel like life is the reason we live is to make stuff happen, to expend energy, to move, to use our brains. Like, laying on the couch all day is the purpose of being alive. Right? So just trying to find those people, which is definitely more difficult. We. We embrace diversity. You know, I grew up in Serbia. I was 18 when I moved to the United States, and I love people that have that similar experience because it really makes people adapt. Like, you have to adapt to move to a different country. You have to work hard to do that. So I purposefully co. Seek out, you know, immigrants and foreigners, and that. That has worked pretty good.

I love that. We used to joke sometimes, and Emmett and I have actually had this conversation before about, like, I don't need a resume filled with really good tactical clinical experience. I need to know how many hard things you have learned to overcome. Like, I want to know your resume of, like, what challenges have you faced? What obstacles have you overcome? How hungry are you? Are you a good culture fit? Because I think to your point, that's the key. Like you were saying, like, they need to fit with your culture of, like, drive and hard work and passion for life and passion for what they're doing. I think you're like, I'll create some systems around you to train you on some of the tactical things, because that's an easier investment to make than trying to change someone's mindset or culture. So I think one of the things you called out is just upfront in your hiring process, make sure that you've identified those skill sets. And again, like, show me your. Your battle wounds, so to speak. And I'm like, okay, you're hired. Right? So I love that mentality. I think one of the things that has helped. I know me a lot in my journey, and I know, as we've talked about each of you as well, is. Is mentorship. We've talked about how do we guide and grow our teams and mentorship. So I'd love to talk especially with women in the industry. Sometimes there's this belief system that women can be a little bit afraid that if you're winning. I can't be. And we just want to break that mold and say, like, not only do I want you to win, I want to help you win. I want to mentor you into winning. So I'd love to talk a little bit about some of the female especially, but any mentors in your career, Maya, will stick with you. Have you had any mentorship experience that you. You could kind of share and. And feel like that's impacted your career journey?

Yeah. I was sharing with you guys before we started the podcast that Chris and I visited Lori in 2018 and got to visit her practices and see how she does things. And that was an amazing experience. And, of course, we've been part of the deal since 2018, so going on six years now, learned a ton from everyone there. So there's no learning without somebody teaching you how to do it, someone that's been ahead of you and has done that. So that has been a huge part of where we are now.

Yeah, I love that and that they want you to succeed. So, Lori, it sounds like you've got to be part of Maya's journey. How are you thinking about either people who have come before you and sort of mentored you up a little bit and maybe how that's translating into the way you choose to lead?

Yeah, I think. And I think there's seasonality to that as well.

Right.

If I think back to who I was when I first started, there were people that I looked up to, spoke to for advice. Right. Or how did you do this? And then, of course, as you evolve as a leader and a business owner, the people that you need to go to for that mentorship or guidance evolve to. Right. Or you have to look at, you know, it's constantly changing. It's changing landscape. So I've had some coaches that I've had for a decade, but then I've also had some that have just come and gone over the years, depending on where I am. And so I think that that's the key to. To that type of a relationship is knowing where you want to go or what you're.

Who you.

Who you are aspiring to become. And try to find those people and talk to them, learn from them, see what they're. What they've done to get where they are. I think that that's, for me, what's worked the best, probably to. Same thing as my saying.

Yeah, so I love that you're saying, seek out mentorship at every phase of your life, someone is a little bit ahead and can guide you and direct You. And sometimes it's even around a specific skill set or capability. You identify that, hey, I might struggle with, say, maybe a spreadsheet or the details of something. So I want to find mentorship and somebody who actually has that figured out and can help me talk through those things as well as just leadership and mentorship throughout your career. I know, Kimmy, you and I, we are proclaimed homegrown employees. And so we just. So much mentorship, I know we've talked about this before, was poured into. So how has that mentorship impacted how passionate you are now as a DEO coach at pouring into other members because of what was kind of given to you in your career? How's that impacted you?

For me, personally, in the coaching, I love when I can meet leaders or meet with groups who are growing leaders within their organization.

Right.

And it brings a power to be able to coach them in that too, in that space. You know, these office managers who are trying to level up to regionals or regionals, leveling up to the operations directors and putting that belief in. In themselves. As far as mentorship, for me personally, I. Everyone around me, I tried to look for mentorship opportunities. I never assumed I was the smartest person in the room because usually I wasn't. I just had a drive to be the best that I could be. And I had practice managers who. I was their regional manager that I learned probably just as much or more from them as they did from me. And really, I was more of a support to them, saw them more as my peers than as people that I was leading and directing. One of those practice managers, she would call me her on purpose person sometimes. And it. It just kind of. We created this relationship where we could bounce ideas off of one another. And again, just, I. I learned so much from her, and I hope vice versa. I hope she learned some from me.

But it.

You create those relationships from one another's experiences, from one another's knowledge. And I think that the moment that we feel like we're the smartest person in the room, that's when we. That's when our growth stops. Right. And so we constantly look for people around us who can lend to our growth while we also give to their growth is the most empowering thing that we can. That we can do.

Yeah, I think we talk a lot about it too. And anytime you come to a DEO event, you'll hear what is your give, what is your get. Right. Everyone can be a mentor, and everyone can be mentored at any given place in their lives and in their career journey and really looking at everyone around you, not just those who have gone further than you. But I love that you said, even though I was her boss, technically I was her leader. I was learning from my practice manager. I think that that humility and that eagerness and like Maya mentioned, like, always wanting to learn from everyone around you and, and mentorship is really the willingness to share and elevate everyone because there is room. Right? Like, especially when you think about women in leadership positions at this point, we occupy a lot of the majority of staff and practice roles, but not as many leadership roles in dental. You don't see as many, you know, sitting on the executive teams, even percentage wise. So there's so much room for winning for women in leadership positions that we have nothing to be worried. There is no scarcity to be had. Right. There is room for all of us at the table. And so I love the humility and the willingness to. To learn. So let's think about now as we start to kind of wrap in a little bit of what are we thinking about the future? We're seeing these folks that are coming into dental, whether accidentally or intentional, you know, they're sitting as the practice manager, the front desk assistant. They're in dental school right now or may just graduated, and they're looking at their future in terms of leadership and just the evolving dentistry. Maya, what are you seeing and what are you really excited about when you talk to those younger folks that are coming in about the future of dentistry and how you see their career trajectory maybe going and how you can help guide that a little bit?

I love dentistry. I think dentistry is awesome. I'm trying to talk everybody I know into going to dentistry. We have three children and pushing them into it. Yeah, two girls. I. I think hygiene is, hands down the best job in the world, being a dentist. But, you know, for the time of the school that you have to put in, hygiene is a great career. So I think just finding the people that are doing what you want to do, and if you don't know what it is that you want to do, then just get around and watch some people do some stuff and, and see if that is what you think you want to be doing and just learning, just being passionate about moving every day. And I think, yeah, yeah, I love that idea too.

There's.

I am a mother of young adults who cannot figure out what they want to be when they grow up at, like, 18, if they don't know and they're not feeling passionate. I love the idea of just let Them come and watch and see if dentistry is a good career for you. Cammie, it was accidental for you and that your dentist said, hey, I think you could be here. That wasn't your goal. You just were like, all right, I'll give it a try. Because someone looked at you and said, come try this. So I love that idea, Maya, of just being open and letting this generation who can't, they don't know. And college is super expensive. And so maybe saying, yeah, hygiene is a better option for you. Or come in as an assistant. We'll train you and we'll help you create a career path. If you just can't figure that out. Lori, what are you seeing in terms of some of that involvement and trying to help bring in more into the future of dentistry and the landscape that's coming?

Yeah, I think the thing that I see the most is that you can't come into this space with a fixed mindset. Right. The field is evolving so rapidly and it has been, it has been for a long time. But I think if you're coming in and you have this vision of this is what I'm going to do, this is how my career is going to go from here till I retire. I think you're going to be really disappointed. You're going to miss out on a lot of things and at some point you're going to hit a wall where frustration aren't moving forward with the world around you. And I think I've even been a

part of that a little bit.

Right.

I went in thinking I was just going to be a dentist at my office, be a mom. Right. I was going to have this great life. But that quickly changed. I mean, within two months of me even opening this practice, that changed. But then even as I've grown and added an associate, now I have multiple locations. Right. So I never set up for that either. But the, the way the industry is evolving, I've had to adapt, I've had to pivot. But then it's also been huge opportunity for me because I've had an abundant mindset rather than coming in with a fixed mindset. So that's the advice I would give to people who are coming into the space. There's tons of opportunity. It's an amazing space. You just have to have the right mindset for it.

I love that. Be open minded. I like the idea of having goals and aspirations for what you want your life to look like, but that doesn't mean a fixed course of what your career is going to look like. To get you there. And so that you're like, hey, we are evolving. I mean, there's so much change happening in the industry every day, it feels like. And even again in our career journeys have been. I mean, if we didn't evolve and change, we wouldn't be sitting here. So I love that. The advice to the folks coming up, the younger generations, is just be open minded, be passionate, be an eager learner. Like you mentioned, Lori and Maya, just be ready and willing to change and adjust and be passionate about your life goals and where you want to be and let your career journey ebb and flow. Any other advice, Cami, from you, as you think about, you know, how we distill to the next generation of female leaders in particular, like, what advice would you share from kind of your experiences to the. To that group?

Well, and just to add to the conversation, just never to give up. And even sometimes doors close. I've had doors close in my career where I thought, you know, it was the end of the world. And never when I was at a dental assistant did I see myself in an executive operations piece. And then that kind of became my identity. And I thought that that's where I would end my career was in this executive operations space, because I loved that too. The company that I was with sold out to private equity, and then the new COO started bringing on all of his own people in operations. And so that part of my life kind of ended a little bit. And at that time, I never would have seen myself in a coaching position. But I'm so grateful that I had that learning experience with that past company for the eight years that I did. And it brought me to this amazing experience that I'm now in. And so it's just taking. Learning what you can while you are in the area that you're in at the time. Right. The position that you're in. Learn all that you can and know that when a door closes, another one's going to open. And, you know, I said it before, opportunities will present themselves if you're looking for them and if you're open to them. And you. You just never know what direction your life's gonna take. And I'm living proof of that.

I know. I think that is the truth. I think we can all say we can't say that we predicted we'd be here, but the journey has been crazy and fun and magical and that the advice is to stay open, not to shut down or have that identity crisis. When a door closes, I feel that like I've. I've had those experiences where it's you've had the opportunity to either shut down and kind of have crisis or seek out the next opportunity and allow yourself to grow. This has been an amazing conversation, ladies. I super appreciate you guys jumping on and talking all things and insights and experiences today around your leadership journey and the opportunities that you've had and the passion that you have for developing leaders inside dental. I think as we've just said already, the opportunities are immense and with particularly with women rallying around each other and supporting each other and mentoring each other, the journey ahead for the next, you know, generation of leaders is coming. Thank you to our listeners also for joining us today. Stay tuned for more conversations at DEO Growth Secrets Podcast. And like I say to my kids every morning, make it a great day, everybody. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to deo's Growth Secrets Podcast for dental organizations. Continue the conversation on our Facebook group and meet other dental leaders. Get questions answered and the strategies you need to succeed. Plus, we have some free resources for you right there on the Facebook page. Remember, you're not alone. Let's do this together. Join DEO's Growth Secrets Group on Facebook. And until next time, keep smiling.