195: Direct Mail & Digital Marketing Synergies To Increase Patient Flow & Practice Revenue

One of my favorite sayings is revenue covers a lot of sins. So if we can create more patient flow, better marketing, better sales, all the better. Hi, I'm Emmett Scott and just like you, I've had my ups and downs in the dental industry, but times are changing. The DEO has built a map of how to succeed in one of the most challenging industries to navigate. On this show, we talk to dental industry leaders, solve problems and get you the answers you need to face these challenging times and thrive. Welcome to DEO's Growth Solutions Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Now let's get started. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of DEO Growth Secrets. I'm your fearless host, Emmett Scott and today I'm excited to have Jesse Stamp, marketing consultant with Patient News and Judy Webster, VP of Sales and services at Patient News here with us. And just to give you a little background of these two, Jesse has been eight years in dental marketing, has helped hundreds of dental offices like strategize create effective digital and direct mailing campaigns. By the way, one of my favorite sayings is revenue covers a lot of sins. So if we can create more patient flow, better marketing, better sales, all the better. Jesse really understands how to use data and research to support brand development, build the practice awareness and increase new patients and production. Judy is a dynamic and innovative sales and marketing leader who sets priorities and manages end to end execution by inspiring the dedicated team on performance and cross functional collaboration. So I'm excited to have both of them here with us today as we're trying to solve this inflation and increase our revenue. You know, some of those at deo, some of our members are launching new practices. Maybe they've been successful in their current practice, but they're on number two or three and those have struggled a little bit more and they need to step back and kind of like, okay, what is my marketing strategy here? How do I get more patients in the office? So anyway, thrilled to have both of you on here, really talking through like some of the, the innovation that's happening and some of the mistakes that are happening. I'm going to start with something that might seem a little off because we tend to go digital first, but I want to go old school for a minute here and ask you guys have direct mail? I mean it's, I love the name Patient News. I feel like it's like grounded in the 20s, you know, but, and that'd be 1920, not 2020. But tell me a little bit about your thoughts on direct mail. I'm hearing from more dentists that it still works. What's your guys's take?

Yeah, so I'll jump in here. And thanks so much for having us. We're so excited to be here. Not 1920, but 1993. So close. But, you know, we've been marketing dental practices for 30 years. So that experience in dental marketing allows us to know that direct mail is that number one brand awareness tool for each of our offices. So because it provides a physical presence that digital marketing often lacks, online presence has a lot of choice these days, which allows that digital presence to get buried in that overwhelming competition. So that's really where direct mail provides a physical and humanizing presence for an office's potential patient. Now, with that 30 years, we also know that over 80% of consumers trust print ads the most when making a buying decision.

And it's concrete. Right. Like, you can feel it and touch it. And back to what you said, too. You know, I was in a group called the 25k group, so everyone knows how much that cost, but it was all online marketing marketers. And one of the things they said very much aligned with you is it's interesting, as we've gone digital, the mailbox has gotten a little more empty and less crowded. And so now if we kind of zag over to that, we put ourselves in front of people in a way that, you know, isn't as crowded as it used to be.

Absolutely, absolutely. It's really the only way to reach 100% of the marketplace, but it also drives activity online for more information. So just like you said, with the reduction of transactional mail, direct mail becomes very visible, which ultimately gets those practices results. And it's the only proactive means that triggers interest before that search as well. So it also helps keep the eyes off the competition and on the dental practice that really wants to attract that larger market share.

Well, and the importance of branding. Right. So it's. It's fun how the brain works when you really get into marketing. If I'm in their mailbox and then I show up on the digital side, it kind of gives this impression of like, oh, wow, these guys are successful. Oh, wow. They're everywhere. They're really involved in our community. Right, right. And then if I've done any of those little ancillary things with the school or whatnot, it just. Just builds on itself. Right, Those different pieces. Yeah.

It's all part of that patient journey, we call it. So kind of like you touched bas in the beginning as well. You know, each phase of that journey has its own growth aspect but they all intertwine together and each of them are important to be successful within the next campaign as well. I always say marketing is food, not medicine. So it needs to happen for the length of time that you decide to practice in that area for sure.

The length of time you decide you want to live. Right.

Yeah.

Now this might be outside. I don't know if you manage this level of detail, but I am curious, are there any tips or tricks on direct mail? When I look at the actual ad itself, you said something like it could actually drive my digital side. So part of it, of course is I'd want to have my website and other maybe a QR code or something simple. Right. To be able to jump to it. Is there anything else you would throw in there that makes sense on direct mail? Yeah.

So what we want to do with it is we really want to differentiate practice from that competition. So we want to highlight what makes them different. And of course, with the direct mail, again, with our experience, Emmett, we know that over 90% of those decisions are typically made by a female. So we're trying to drive her to either pick up the phone and call based on the information we provided, which is, you know, only two pages. So we, we need to be to the point, but again, drive them online to potentially find out a little bit more and then call from there as well. So we want to again include a little bit about the practice on the front, maybe have some offer strategies and then on the back we want to have that QR code potentially to their website, a little bit about the dentist and then of course, some great reviews as well.

Okay, now we're going digital. Everyone's going to go to the website. They're going to go to the Google Maps that will lead them to the website, whatever that might be. Right. What are, you know, we're not great at this. Some of us are still learning what are common mistakes. Let's start there and then we'll go into like strategies. But like, what are the do not do this on your website kind of things?

Okay, that's great. Well, I'll take this one, Emmett. And as Jesse mentioned, around the patient journey, the online presence is just so important because it really is the place where people go for patient. Patients will go to research as well as then ultimately make their buying decision more times than not. So you really have to get it right and make a great impression so you don't lose that opportun with that potential patient. You want to make sure that your website is polished and professional, really easy to navigate and really highlighting what makes you unique and provide like a welcoming presence so that people feel confident in, you know, clicking through to book an appointment or through to make a phone call.

I mean, we don't think about it, but we're kind of intimidating. Like we're a clinician, right? Like we're a doctor. And so it's the.

It can be. It can be. Want to make sure when they put the pictures on the website as well as on their newsletter that they look friendly and approachable, as does the team. So again, really important that it is personalized. You can see the doctor. They're not looking scary. They're looking friendly and approachable as well as the. The staff. And so, you know, as a business owner, you know, you really want to stay on top of that and not have that slip through the cracks because you can spend money on marketing in a lot of different areas. But if you don't make that connection when they're coming to the website, it could be a real or break. So you asked me for the top mistakes. I have a lot. I have nine of them. So I'm going to maybe look over every now and then and to make sure I don't forget anything. But not having an attention to detail. Stuff happens with digital and it could be set up perfectly. And then something happens and a link gets broken and you don't know that that link is broken. And people you're frustrating somebody that's coming to visit your website and they also

wonder if, like, are you still open?

Yeah.

What's going on here?

Is this how you run your practice? You know?

Yeah, no, exactly. You know, everything is about the impression. So you just want to make sure that, you know, you're checking to make sure that things are all functioning as they should or that you have a solid partner that's doing that for you on a regular basis. And then how it's laid out, you know, you know yourself if you go somewhere and it's just so text rich and. And it just looks like so much people's attention span is pretty short. So you want to get to the point you want to have that flow, the white space. Space. But not too many colors and, you know, too. Too much busyness so that you don't lose somebody in that. No spelling mistakes as with every.

And we're. We're not going to read a ton, right. So you got to be careful on the narrative.

100%. 100%. And that is a bit of a challenge in that, you know, when you get to the point of doing SEO, you want to make sure that your website is SEO rich with keywords and what have you. And it's a fine balance with the amount of content on it, but still being able to show up. And when Google's crawling the website, the one is most people will actually go and look on their cell phones. So they're going to be using their mobile friendly look beautiful on the desktop. But then you go to the cell phone and it's not presenting the website in a really user friendly way, which will really frustrate that user experience. And knowing that the majority of searches are done from a mobile, you just definitely need to make sure that it looks visually great. And it's a really smooth experience there too.

The mobile is almost more important than the like. If I'm sitting on my couch, I'm not going to be like, let me run over to my computer to look up a dentist. You know, like right, oh no, I'm not getting up.

I do everything on my mobile. So if it's a frustrating experience, I may have to get up and use my desktop to do it. But I don't like that. I'd rather be able to see it right through on my mobile.

Well, I'm actually just going to another website. I'm going to go to another site. Right? Yeah, yeah.

Because really people don't have a lot of patience nowadays. Right. They're very, they're very busy. And then not having. You have a beautiful website but you're not investing in search engine optimization and really that's the important thing that you want to do. Dentistry is at a local level and you really do want to show up when people are searching those keywords for a local dentist because they're having that need right now. And if you're not on that page one or close to that, most people don't click through. I don't know about you emt, but I tend to look for what's on page one. I can see what are and then I see what the, the organic ones are. So we want to make sure we're investing in that and we want a strategy that's going to get us to page one and help us maintain our position. So that's really critical. Ignoring that can really make. It can be expensive because.

Right, because you're. The more you can be on page one, the more you drive down how much pay per click you're ultimately going to have to do.

Yeah, exactly. You totally got it. You've totally got it. And then the next that kind of really segues really nicely into kind of neglecting the opportunity of doing paid ads. And you had mentioned that you work with startups as well as established practices. And, you know, when you're first launching a website, you don't really have any SEO credibility at all. And that's where paid ads is really a great opportunity to get out there when people are searching and get you on that first page. And having a partner that's, you know, really savvy about creating that great paid ad experience. People clicking through the paid ad, a big mistake is that it takes them to the website, but it's not about that specific service that they're advertising. And then they're kind of searching, going, well, I really wanted to know about, you know, implants or, you know, teeth whitening, but now I gotta find it. So you want to make sure you're landing them where it's really easy for them to get the information they need and then to take action.

Okay, can we pause there? Because that's like a gem right there. So if I'm searching, I'll give an example to our listeners. If I'm searching for boat insurance and GEICO comes up or whoever, and I click on there because I'm like. And they go, hey, we can provide you great boat insurance or whatever. So I click on it and it takes me to their homepage. Now I'm searching through to find out the whole boat insurance thing. And that's what I actually initially wanted. And if that's not easy or I can't quickly fill out the form on that, then I'm jumping back out because. And I'm clicking on the next one, right? So now I'm just spending people's pay per click money. But the best, right, we'll say, okay, we're going to run this ad on boat insurance. Let me bring this over to dental. We're going to run it on implants, we're going to run it on crowns, veneers, whatever it might be. The landing page that they go to needs to take them right to what that ad was about. If you're just kind of frankly lazy, putting it right on your homepage, it's, it's fine. But now they've got to go hunt and say, okay, I came here for implants. Do they do implants? Oh, look, there it is. Let me go into that right, right now. How do I book an appointment for that? I mean, clearly if someone's done the search, they've clicked on there. You want to make this like, book your Implants now.

Right, Exactly. You want to get them the information, build their confidence and then have them take action, which is going to be clicking to call, filling out a form, whatever the call to action is. And so, you know, for, you know, and then having that paid strategy alongside the SEO strategy, initially you'd want to, you'd be spending more on paid ads as you're building up your SEO. But really the secret is get your. Invest in your SEO driving that organic search, then you can start pulling back on the paid ads. And you know, that's a really great strategy because it's easy to just keep, you know, increasing your paid ad budget and it does a beautiful job of driving patience. But for a long term view, I would totally recommend looking into the.

You guys help. I mean, there's a science to both the SEO side, which clearly it sounds like you all help with. Do you also help when I'm like trying to figure out what words to choose? Right.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay. Because I want inexpensive words but high value words. Right. By the way, I drove by and I saw a dentist literally named their practice dentist near me, which I thought it's brilliant. Like there can only be so many of those. But they're really trying to use that SEO component. Right.

That's kind of cheeky, but I kind of respect it too, so.

Exactly. Definitely like a marketing first.

That keyword would not be cheap.

Not at all.

Competition to that.

Yeah, for sure. Sorry, Jesse. No, but also what you want to do though is, you know, just to kind of play on that. You do want to have keywords, you want to keep your cost per click down. And there's, it's, you know, really we need to make sure that happens. But we'll do the research and we can clearly see what people are searching. So it's great to be on page one for a keyword, but if nobody's searching for it, then it's not putting the patients in seat. So it is that you've got to really make sure you're focusing. And usually in most areas it's five keywords, five top keywords that drive the majority of searches and click throughs and action. And so really getting on those top five as a long term strategy is critical. And then you can have secondary keywords around your services that will, you know, not necessarily be as pricey but that, you know, keeps you relevant for the different services as well. So good. A good strategy is important and working with someone that knows their stuff.

If I can pause you here, this is so good. It's like rich stuff. One of the things we teach at DEO is how to get very clear on your patient avatar. Okay? Like, who is the customer? And Dennis hate this. But I say, please don't tell me that your avatar is we do bread and butter dentistry because it's so expensive to take that approach. Right? So the more specific we can be of like, hey, I'm looking for, you know, women between the age of 35 and 55 who have these type of issues, which, by the way, all of us can just look in our practice management software and say, who are we naturally already servicing? Right. Who's really coming into the office right now? Or if I'm pediatric, Let me get clear on that. Now my keywords are more relevant. They'll align, by the way, with the procedures that I'm going to do. See, this is about, like not wasting money on every step. I'm going to have a landing page that ties into the patient avatar and the keyword that I want to see. And now my treatment coordination, everything just kind of flows. Right? So sometimes I feel like dentists will say, man, I just need a marketing company. Boom, I'm done. And really sitting down and having this much more strategic, thoughtful approach and have everything be very congruent. You know, I think those of us who like Apple, we like the congruency of things and how they just flow together. I think all of us really want that congruency in the marketing realm too. We don't want it to feel jolted, like, I clicked on this, but now I'm over here, but now I can't find this and it doesn't work on my mobile and I came into your office and that's not even really what you guys do here. You just kind of went after that patient for a minute, you know, those kind of things. Right? I'm going to do Invisalign, but I'm just going to bring you to my homepage now. Do you do invisible, whatever it is.

Sorry, Jesse. I know, Jesse, you go ahead.

I know. I'm just like prior to any marketing here, one of the first steps that we do, of course, we can't just recommend marketing without doing a deep dive. So understanding the keywords in the area, the click rates, the demographics, diving into all of that, but also diving into their practice management system. Like you said, what is their top demographic but who's their top spend? Where are they located based on production spent in the last year or two, Is there a correlation of high value patients within a specific area or walk route that we can target to attract more. So yeah, it's all based on science and having that data prior. I always say I can't expect you to tell me what's wrong with my mouth over the phone without doing an X ray. That's what I want to do to your practice first is really dive in to the analytics and, and all of the key components that are going to make campaigns successful for sure.

Awesome.

Yeah, that's for sure. Jesse. I always say there's an art and a science to marketing.

Yeah.

You need to have both. You need to have both for sure. Okay, I'll go to the next one. Is a slow loading website. You've been there, you go in and it's just the circle. We call it the circle of death or it is hard to find the buttons. Hard to navigate. No really, you know, easily visible.

Does that happen just because I, I just, I've loaded too many graphics. I haven't really designed it.

Well, it's really about the website design. Emmett. There's things that you can do to make sure like we want, you know, using video can really slow a website down. So you have to have other tools that help to make sure that your, your website is fast and believe it or not, Google it matters to Google when they're ranking you for your SEO, the speed of your website. So that's something you really don't want to have a slow website because it's going to get you on end as well. We also talked about the navigation and making sure that your calls to action are clear and easy to find. And reviews, the importance of patient reviews and reviews on your website on your Google business profile, Facebook Google. It is so critical. Again it's super important to SEO for reviews but it's also important during the patient journey as they're researching the practice and making that buying decision. You know, do you want to go to a practice that has one five star review or 704.8 as a total rating? Like you're going to really want to see that and not only driving the reviews. And I know that there's tools, we happen to have one. But there are tools to make it easy to get reviews that the practice can execute on and then also answering those reviews, that's really important too. Answering the good reviews. And then if somebody wasn't so, you know, maybe somebody wasn't so kind but you do want to be able to address those as well. So that's a really important thing that people forget.

Kind of talk me through the reviews on the website. Because I think when most of us think of reviews, you know, we think of a Google Map type element. But most people don't realize, like, you can bring that stuff up to your website, which is super helpful. Not only am I looking for the stars, and you're right, like one five star review, it's like, oh, I'm glad their mom likes them, you know, but when it has volume, first of all. But number two, I'm always looking in the reviews for myself. That's really what I'm looking for. Oh, look, there's somebody whose kid hit their tooth too. And the doctor was really good with. Okay, yeah, that's what I was looking for. Right. So. Or you're looking for the emotional piece. Like, staff was really kind, doctor. You know, took the time to answer my questions. Like we're all emotionally doing this vetting process. So it's not just about the, the stars. The volume also helps the probability that I'm going to find myself in those reviews. Right.

That is so true, doctor. You know, made me feel very relaxed. If you're nervous. Right. Like, those are the things that I would look for. Yeah, you, you are so right on that. So again, very critical to have a strategy in place and not having one is a mistake. When you're investing in your marketing, you know, whether it's a patient newsletter, you want to make sure you're using call tracking. You really want to make sure you're understanding what your return on investment is, having a way to track that specifically to the different marketing that you're doing. And so making sure that if you're running paid ads, someone goes to your ad, but then they go to your website, that phone number follows them, and it's called dynamic number insertion. And you know, you want to make sure that you're working with a professional organization that's going to help you really, truly understand what is driving the patients in the chair from your marketing investment. So I would say that we want to make sure that we understand that fully. And then again, just providing a poor user experience in general, if it's not a good user experience on the website. If you have online booking, here's one that's come up recently. So a lot of people are using online booking tools, which is fabulous. But when's your next available appointment? Because if it's three months down the road, that person needs the dentist right now. You got to be really careful to make sure you're putting those slots aside for new patients so that they're not coming. And then being deterred so you've got to really think that through. So those were my top ones.

I love it. On that last one we have what's called the DEO ops assessment using constraint theory and it says, hey, be careful about doing a bunch of marketing spend when you're not answering the phone, when you don't actually have availability facilities. So we have that all listed out for people because you solve that, right, and you really drive down your marketing costs. Same marketing spend, better volume.

Absolutely.

You mentioned something there near the end I'd like to talk about, which is in marketing they call it attribution. Fancy word. But really what we all want to know is, hey, this patient walked in my door. Why? Like, was it really because I saw him at the ball game and then they told a friend and you know, none of this digital stuff's actually mattering. Is it because of the digital stuff? Is it because of the flyer? Like, is it because of my billboard etc. As much as I can. And I know this, the reality is, you know, it's seven touches or seven impressions to get there. So I might only get an understanding of what the last one was, not what the first six were. But do you guys have a solution? I know there's more and more looking at software tie ins or something that can start bringing this information to the forefront because otherwise it does feel like marketing's more like an art and maybe a prayer, you know. And what I think we want is a little bit more of the science which would give us more confidence of like, hey, put your money here. It tends to be working better, you know, dig over here for gold versus over here. So how are you all solving that right now for people?

Yeah, so great question, Emmett. We have our own online marketing performance dashboard. It's called our practice zebra and it really differentiates us from a lot of other marketing companies as well because it focuses on marketing and it's fully comprehensive. So what that does is it helps to maximize and support the office ROI from their marketing spend, but also from other marketing campaigns like you mentioned. Maybe we're monitoring a billboard, a subway ad, Facebook, you know, website, direct mail. So other softwares I've noticed focus on one element. But with Practice Zebra, it really allows you to have everything at your fingertips. So it is connected to your practice management system at the office, extracting data for you very easily in a very user friendly platform as well. So it provides everything at your fingertips. So we have everything from call tracking, recording and scoring as you mentioned, it's important.

Oh, so it ties into the the phone as well?

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So we again, score those calls. So we're able to really determine why people aren't booking at the practice. Is it because of insurance? Is it because there's no convenient appointment times? Is it because of fee questions or concerns? And we can provide some call coaching and scripting. So it really allows us to full circle follow that again, patient journey from exactly where they're calling from, whether it be a specific call tracking line and a marketing campaign, potentially an exact address match within the distribution area that we've selected as well. That visibility allows us to then manipulate marketing campaigns for further growth as we move forward together as well.

Yeah, this is awesome. And I love that the market's going here because it's really like, I just explained our constraint theory and you guys are building technology around that same concept. So if I'm an office manager, tell me a little bit, like, what would happen? I could log in, I could see phone calls completed for the previous day or listen to recordings or what would that look like? And then I could see a little bit of where my patients that have come in, where they came from.

You can see all of that?

Yeah, absolutely. You can see all of that. Everything you just mentioned, Emmett, it's very easy to use for an office manager as well, but it focuses on that actionable data. So new patient value versus existing, you know, focusing maybe on retention options versus acquisition, less like danger patients or unaccepted treatment plans. And then it focuses specifically on those key performance metrics. So it allows them to take a look at how they're currently answering or converting calls and visualize their future using specific metrics to predict how a small change in some of those percentages can impact overall growth as we move forward together as well.

Yeah, that's fascinating. You know, I don't. I don't think most dentists know, but in the marketing world, you're looking at lifetime value of a customer. Right. So you're saying, okay, we're going to make a thousand dollars over on this customer. What's the right marketing spend? And the reality is, depending on procedures or customer type that changes. It could be $300, it could be $10,000, $40,000. Absolutely. Being able to start to, especially if I'm, let's say, a general dentist who's doing a lot of different procedure types or, you know, I want to look at different patient types, like where really should I put my money? Sounds like this is software that at least could start getting my arms around that.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Fascinating. I'D be interested in seeing that. Yeah. So and then the fact that it's kind of taking on the funnel too down to the call pieces. That's really interesting.

It really is a one stop shop Em. And I mean not only are we monitoring existing patient data from again that PMS connection and new patient data, we're monitoring their marketing roi as I mentioned. We're also taking into consideration their call answer and conversion rate with that scoring. But it also has a full suite of patient communication tools. Things like Judy mentioned that review booster tool or two way texting, missed call alerts, monthly email newsletters, dental membership booster. So we can target non insured patients and let them know about an in house membership plan. So it really becomes a one stop shop.

Yeah. That overlay that you, that you wish was in the practice management software but is 100%. I mean we have to remember practice management software was built to schedule a patient bill and chart. Chart and then bill. Right.

Yeah.

And so as soon as we start getting a little more sophisticated and say well no, I actually want to follow up with the patient, I want to market to them, we quickly see that the practice management software wasn't built for that. So an overlay like this basically, you know, supercharges. What was that show like Pimp My Ride or something Supercharged.

Doing that to the mark.

The PMI to the pms. Yeah. So and it sucks the data in. So it's a, it's a read solution. Right. Okay. And then so I don't have to, I don't have to put it into the system. Sorry I'm getting into details here but that's okay. Issues I've had to deal with.

That's okay. We, we can, we pull from the PMS system but we can also push back first certain practice management systems. Absolutely. So when it comes to things like appointment reminder, we can actually write back with the confirmed confirmation within a text or email from those patients as well. So it really does become a full service practice management software really because it allows them to, to analyze daily activity but also overall for, for marketing growth moving forward and ultimately increase the practice production. That's, that's what we're here.

I love how holistic by the way. Open dental Eagle soft. Yep.

Dentrix. We're honestly about 99% compatible with over 300 different softwares.

So.

Okay, so probably you're going to be fine.

More than likely, yes. Eight years. I think I can say a handful of them. Handful of offices I've spoken with.

Maybe it didn't that their brother in law built for them or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

You'd mentioned previously, Emmett, about just understanding where your own patients are coming from and what that looks like. We actually have as part of the tool a patient plot. So not only can you see where your patients are clustered around the practice, but you can see it by the amount of. Of revenue.

Oh, you can plot this like on a Google map type field.

Oh no, it's a. It's right in there for you. You just click on it and it's all there. And you can look at it by visually. Yeah, it's really.

That allows me to target my direction mail too. Right.

Because it's digital ads to your digital ads. You know, you got to do some geotargeting there.

So it's based on the IP address. I can say, hey, this area tends to be. Yeah, that's awesome.

Ideal patient.

Yeah. Percentage of actual patients coming from each zip code as well. So, you know, if we already have 95% of the market share in zip code 22608, then you know, let's expand out of there as well. But of course we want to take a look at their core area and then start to test niche markets with it outside of that as we develop and grow together. For sure.

Yeah. It's almost the power of like door to door sales when they come and say, hey, your neighbor just signed up for this. Do you. Are you interested? Right. Like you can almost be like your neighbor comes to us. Why don't you.

Speaking of that, Emmett, sorry to cut you off there. One of the things with our direct mail that actually is super unique, that I know our clients absolutely love is you. Actually if you marketed with us with our direct mail, your neighbor couldn't. So the area that you select to market into actually becomes exclusive for your practice. So there is no competition there because it does work so well. We don't want our offices to compete against each other and ultimately we don't want to compete against ourselves. We're here to help our practices to stand out and grow.

So get with patient news. Get exclusivity before someone else does. Yes,

absolutely.

Awesome. Well, you guys have been a total pleasure. Super valuable too. I think those who know a lot about marketing learned something or at least kind of reinvigorated like where their focus needs to be. And I think for many, like there's some new jargon and terms and thoughts where this, it doesn't have to be just like, hopefully this works, but we can really get a science down and make sure every dollar comes back to us. If somebody wanted to have more conversation with you guys, dig in, make sure it would work for them. Maybe test drive. Who would they reach out to? What's the best way?

Yeah. So they are welcome. Anyone can go to patientnews.com and there, right on the homepage, you are welcome to book a consultation with one of our marketing consultants and and we'll walk you through the entire process.

Awesome. Hey, thank you all so much for being on. Both Jesse and Judy really appreciate the feedback. Interested in discussing this more? Come over to our Facebook page at DEO GrowthSecrets. And until next time, keep smiling. Thank you for listening to deo's Growth Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Continue the conversation on our Facebook group and meet other dental leaders. Get questions answered and the strategies you need to succeed. Plus, we have some free resources for you right there on the Facebook page. Remember, you're not alone. Let's do this together. Together. Join DEO's Growth Secrets Group on Facebook. And until next time, keep smiling.