225: How IV Sedation Doubles Dental Production and Helps Fearful Patients

You're very busy. You've got high volume, low revenue cases. And then all of that boils down to that financial pressure, the stress of like, am I going to make ends meet?

Hi, I'm Emmett Scott, and just like you, I've had my ups and downs in the dental industry, but times are changing. The DEO has built a map of how to succeed in one of the most challenging industries to navigate. On this show, we talk to dental industry leaders, solve problems, and get you the answers you need to face these challenging times and thrive. Welcome to DEO's Growth Solutions Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Now let's get started. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of DEO Grow Secrets. I'm your fearless host, Emmett Scott. And today I've got Clay Griffith, who is the head of marketing and growth for Advanced Dentistry, which is a four office dental group practice group in, in Ohio, and then Ves. And also you're with Vesper Institute, which we're going to go a lot into what Vesper does and the huge leverage and help it's bringing to the industry. And I also have Leah Zipperstein here, who's head of strategy at Vesper Institute. So thrilled to have both of you and I'd love to just dive right in because anytime someone's in the education realm, coaching realm, et cetera, one of the unique things we have is we're meeting with a lot of people in the industry, mostly with practice owners, and you just start to see patterns. You start to see what's working, working, what's not working. So, I mean, before we get into like, the details of Vesper, I'd love to hear what you all just see happening in the industry. Of course, there was kind of this pre Covid world and post Covid world. For better or worse. It is what it is. It has changed. And I'm curious just what. Yeah, where are things going? Where is the emphasis? Where are the problems different than they used to be before and what are the. The solutions people are trying to solve?

Yeah, that's a great place to start. First of all, we're pumped. I'll speak for both of us. Speak myself. We are pumped to be here. Thanks for having us. Be fine.

So great to have you.

Long time listener, first time caller. I'll let Leah kind of hop in. She's got, you know, great kind of like clean thought patterns that are really fun to listen to. So just by way of saying thanks for letting have us here. Tee up, Leah.

Good to have you, Clay. Yeah, go ahead, Leah.

Yeah, thanks. Also very excited to. To be on. And, you know, I think for dentists, really, for anybody in any industry, it feels harder, especially post Covid. I think this. You've got staff who expect more out of you, you've got customers who expect more, and you don't have the time and energy to give. That feels like it's more you thought and you think, and you probably are doing a really great job exerting yourself, putting it all in, thinking, thinking about the business, even when you're not at work. But it's harder. And so in particular, what does that look like for dentists? I think we'd break it into three categories. There's patience, you've got the patient challenge, and oftentimes that's high fear and anxiety. So as soon as they come to your office, probably what is something you've heard, I don't want to be here. I hate the dentist. I'm afraid of the dentist. How is that and how kind of mentally, you know, almost debilitating would that be as a dentist who's just trying to provide good care, or your staff who's just trying to provide good care? But that's the refrain that you continually hear. Or your schedule falls apart because the patient was so afraid they couldn't even show up to the appointment. You see, they have all this treatment that they need. You come up with a really good treatment plan and they say no. So that's on, you know, the patient side and what the patient is feeling, then how does that relay down staff? There's so much churn and burn. I think somebody who started to practice 30 years ago, you ideally had good prep, you know, good staff, and if somebody left, that's not ideal, but you could find somebody to replace them. There's a huge hygiene shortage right now. You can't, like, you feel like you can't lose anybody because you've got nowhere to turn. And your staff's unfortunately not feeling good. They're feeling spread thin. Their patients feel frustrated. There are very chaotic schedules. So that is really, really challenging. It's hard to attract staff, it's hard to keep good staff. And because of that, then you, as the dentist are feeling incredibly frustrated. You went into this profession to try to help people, and you, and you are. But that's not what is being verbalized or reciprocated from sometimes your patients and your staff. So I think you're might be wondering, like, is this as good as it gets? Why did I pick this job? Could I be anything else? You're, you're very busy, you've got high volume, low revenue cases. And then all of that boils down to that financial pressure, the stress of like, am I going to make ends meet? This can be a very lucrative profession, and that's not why you should go into it. But that is a nice upside and benefit that we'll talk about more. But when you've got, you know, patients who aren't showing up, insurance that's nickel and diming, you staff, who's asking you to get paid more, or you're running a crazy schedule, it all adds up to being like, I'm not sure I can handle this. And that's a really tricky place to be for dentists right now. Which is why, you know, a DSO option can maybe be appealing. And nothing wrong with that. But if you're the dentist who wants to take ownership, and I think, you know, those on a DEO podcast, they want to feel like they've got a handle on the business and the clinical. We do want to say it's not all doom and gloom. We've got a solution that we've seen, you know, works on our side, may or may not be the right fit for you, but there, there can be hope ahead on the dental landscape, even with these current challenges.

I think one of the things that you call out is the fear piece. I mean, that's always existed. It's always been a friction point. You know, as, as a non clinician and kind of all of us with a little bit of a marketing brain, we know that dentistry is not the same as like giving out iPhones. You know, we're not getting a big line and like, guess what, guys, I've got my root canal today. Isn't this, you know, awesome? In fact, we have idioms in English that when we're describing something painful, we use dentistry, right? It is like getting a root canal. It's like pulling teeth. It's like, right? So we are working against those friction points. And I think when the supply demand curve is such that it's like, well, I got enough patience and things are working out, maybe we don't really care about that reality. But when things aren't, we do have to kind of get back to the roots of marketing and sales. And how are we going to reduce the friction points? Simple things like people want more convenience than ever because of the Amazon effect, right? So if you don't have online scheduling, that's a friction point, right, that, that you're creating. So this fear one is really interesting because I just think it's always there and it's something I think specifically you guys are really hitting on in a unique way on scale, you know. So can you talk a little bit about how you address that component and how you think about that?

Yeah, I mean zooming really far out. And this is kind of typically comes up whenever we talk. So I got just go ahead and tee it up and we can reference that later in our minds. Yeah, it's. It's just like this universal thing. It's this age old. Everybody doesn't like the dentist, it's not going to go anywhere. So Lee and I often, like you really force ourselves to come with questions, you know, rather than just like solution first go. As you know, we what? How can we really get a good, solid, healthy question around this that pushes us to push pushups? So what? And Dr. Sarah who's, you know, he's been on podcast before, lovely gentleman, founder of both Vesper Institute and industry, talks on this all the time. So it's really kind of part of like Vespers and advanced dentistry's DNA. So kind of everybody who's listening, you can picture like a nice old school pie chart, right. Divide it simply in half. 50. 50. That's really kind of comes into when you talk about like, you know, blue ocean dentistry and stuff like that. Let's talk about the red half. So not, not the blue ocean side. The, you know, get the half. This stuff over here is generally right around half of our American population is comprised of people who are behaving, quote unquote, as they should. They're taking care of their dental hygiene. They're going every six months, every six months, but they're going regularly. They're doing the things that they've been raised and told that are effective to do. Brushing, all the things right that, right there, that 50% in your mind, let's call it that red. That is red. Because almost all of all dentists are competing for that. That's about half of the population. Now let's go ahead and take our eyes over here. The other half of the pie, let's call that blue. Okay. Why is it blue? Because no one's really talking to that. And it's still 50% of the American population. Right around 50% of the American population is comprised of people who are not regularly seeking dental care for a whole host of reasons. Anywhere from they're somewhere on this fear spectrum, whether they're full on phobic and hyperventilate on the phone, which happens all day, every day. I listen to the calls and they haven' been in for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. Happens every day in all of our locations. Or maybe it's not fear, maybe it's their medically compromised or have a special need. Or maybe it's an extreme gagger or an obese patient needs a special special chair. All these reasons add up to the door picture, especially metaphors. Now picture a door that a patient can go in. Traditional dentist has a this size door. Maybe this doesn't fit for all the different patients. If you can expand the size of the door and help enter. Oh, I can walk through that door. That door can fit me. Yeah, I'm a special needs, that can fit me. I'm medically compromised, that can fit me. Now you're Talking to this 50% of the population that no one else is. And so if you're able, if you're the 1% of dentists that's talking to that 50% of the population. Yeah. Now you can say, I get you're scared. There's nothing wrong with being scared. That's a human condition. I was once scared, too. My dad was scared. I was raised in a scared family. And here's how we're going to solve this. Yes, you're going to hear Lee and Clay talk about IV sedation as a path toward that. But there's many, many, many ways to slice that cake. As long as you're coming from a place of genuine acknowledgment, saying, yes, you're not wrong, there's nothing wrong with you. And guess what? You're not alone. There's a lot of people who need somebody to say, I can help you. And that's Advanced Industry Investment Institute. We'll talk more about that. But that's the general foundation of kind of how we approach it.

Yeah. And I think your numbers are pretty close to what we see with ADA and ADSO, who've done some stats, you know, 50%, maybe 40%, but either way aren't going to the dentist on a regular basis at all. And if you think about that, you know, when you think about cell phones that have a market penetration of like 110%. Right. Because some people have more than one. And we're at 50% market penetration in dentistry. In theory, you could double the entire industry if you could address that second half. So when people say things like, hey, are you concerned about DSOs? Are you concerned about, you know, I'm like, there's an entire set of market that no one's even addressed yet. So so much opportunity and I think that's what you all are, are hitting on. So let's talk through IV sedation and it can feel intimidating for a dentist, maybe complex. You all are really set to try to simplify this and make this, I don't want to use the word norm if that's the wrong word, but make it a systematic for dentists to be able to use and feel the confidence to use and to solve the fear side of this equation. So Leah, can you talk a little bit about that and why you guys have gone that route?

Yeah, I think fear is, you know, such a theme for this because patients are fearful so they won't see the dentist. They could benefit from IV sedation. Dentists are fearful to implement IV sedation. Vesper Institute exists in the middle knowing patients need it and want it. Dentists are fearful to offer it. Can we provide training that closes that gap? So we taking care of more patients and we're giving, you know, students dental, you know, dental students in our program at least the confidence and competence to go practice this safely. And so it is just safety, safety, Safety is the most important thing. It's a mindset. I mean imagine if you went the first year you're in dental school, the first year in the clinic and you're handed the drill. I'd like to think most people were a little fearful that first time they're drilling into a tooth. I would hope so. And now it's second nature. So as with anything when it is new, it is scary. With the right training and the right attitude, you gain the confidence so that it be can't it can become second nature. And our faculties really, really good about this because the mentality isn't if there's going to be a metal medical emergency, sedation related or not, it's when you know, they don't say, they don't schedule appointments. So IV sedation aside, I think it's really important for dentists to not feel as though like everything is is hunky dory without IV sedation and they're comfortable. Safety's got to be important day in and day out. Whether you're doing a sedation related procedure and if you tack on IV sedation then you are going to be at the top. You're not relying on somebody else to come in and handle it. You're going to know how to handle it. So with that first just really important mindset not to say snap of the finger, you're good to go. But if you can adopt that then I think you start to chip away at your fear as the practitioner implementing IV sedation. And in our program, that's where it starts. Just understanding it, recognizing it, and then giving you the training, which is mock drills. We have a really great sim lab with kind of this high fidelity mannequin inside our didactic training where you're running like, you know, what would feel like a real life emergency and getting to navigate that, also understanding scope. If you're starting off doing IV sedation in your first or second year, what's the type of case and treatment that you would feel comfortable with and where should you not go? And having access to faculty to be able to ask that question beyond the gates of our program. You know, we don't want to say, you finished the program. Best of luck to you. You finished the program. And we expected encourage you to call the faculty and say, hey, I've got this upcoming case. How would you handle it? What should I be on the lookout for? So that is, first and foremost, you just got to acknowledge it. And once you own that, our training is built around ensuring that you're confident and safe.

Leah, when you were laying that out where you say the customer really wants this and it's logistically complex, right? That is someone could get hurt, die, etc. And there's a lot of fear around that. Those two elements are always what creates competitive advantage. Yeah, right. So if you think about Amazon, it's like, hey, I've got this low cost book that I want to be able to deliver within same day and still be profitable. That's a logistical problem that most people didn't want to solve. And it's played out okay for Amazon to figure that out. And it created entire markets because of that. And so I think from whether you decide to do IV sedation or not, what's great about these podcasts is the underlying principles are still the same. Looking for opportunities in your marketplace where other clinicians are saying, but that's really hard. You know, it's really hard to do same day treatment. It's really hard to be friendly here. It's really hard to train the staff to do X, Y and Z is also where the competitive advantage exists so that you are not just a commoditized element. And as much as I think most clinicians say, well, I just do good dentistry, the problem is, is that as the consumer, that's actually just a standard, I expect, you know, and you could argue like the guy down the street isn't as good, but I don't know. First of all how to identify that, you know, I don't know what margins are and how to, how to, how to see. I just expect that Amazon delivers me the book appropriately and calls it good. I don't think this delivery system's better than that other than it's around convenience, et cetera. So anyway, all that being said, I think it's a really cool principle you pulled out, which is where fear meets client really wants, this patient really wants. This is where some cool competitive advantage. Now the next part that you hit on is then you have to be systematic and not Harry carry about solving that. Right. So the other extreme was like, oh well, if the customer wants it, who cares? You know, let me watch a YouTube video and let's go. Now what is going to be your systematic approach to make sure that these logistics are really nailed down and I think that's where you're saying Vesper comes in, is to bridge that gap around quality.

Yeah, I think there's two components and you kind of just, you know, outline them again, Emmett. Like there's two, there's two components of the fear is like, am I clinically, Is it. Do I have this in my natural genuine appetite to bite this off and do this clinically? Second fear is am I going to plunk down all this, you know, training, registration fee and time away from, you know, what I'm doing to learn more. Am I actually going to be able to implement? And that is a very, very founded fear historically, and I'm sure they're kind of like, you know, these numbers are probably updating as we speak. But historically the literature has not been rosy on doctors who get trained in IV sedation actually implementing it. And that's kind of why we're here. That's one of the jump, the kickstarts of why we're here. Because that's not great. We don't want that. For those of us who have kind of been living in the dream of doing it, seeing the numbers of people who aren't able to actually implement in real life, it stings like, well, let's get out there. And to be honest with you, and the numbers that I'm referencing there is I think it's 86, 85 or so. 86%. This is Malamed's book. 86% of docs who are trained in IV sedation end up not implementing it. They don't operate. It just ends up withering on the vine. Because it's really hard, to your point earlier, Emmett, to systematically operate this thing to put it out There. How does my front office need to change? Do we need to answer phones a little bit different? What does my billing need to change? How does my marketing need to change? What does my office manage? These little things not to like paint the dim and gloom picture, but it's a small thing. But if you don't have support and you don't have the systems already and you don't have support on getting those systems in place and you are on your own, that's not fun.

Any specialty, I'll see someone go, I'm going to add ortho. They go, do the ce. But adding ortho isn't just the clinical output, it's the entire again logistical process that has to be figured out. So it would make sense that probably those stats are true with any kind of specialty component. Doc goes out, does their CE feel some level of baseline clinical capability, but then realizes everything is actually implemented from front desk, you know, back. And without those systems in place, then you don't execute. I am curious as far as like outcome for those who do implement it, what are we talking about as far as roi? I mean, not to jump to the end of the story, but if I just flip to the back of the book here. If someone from a financial perspective, more impact on patients and community. Do you all have some stats on like, hey, our dentists who come in, who take our courses, who truly implement this, their practice goes from X to Y. And how do you guys think about that? Like how do you measure financial success on this?

I think that's part of the. And Leah, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's in the, the white paper that folks get when they listen to the podcast. I'm not exactly sure.

Okay. It'll be dropped in there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yes, I right now and Leah kind of update me if. If need be. Thank you. I say, I want to say like the national average for a daily production is for a GP is about 5,000 by way. And we can get into why this makes sense and how it actually occurs. But broad brush that jumps from 5,000 to about 11,000, maybe 9,000 to 11,000 in the first year of implementing IV sedation and can go more than, more than doubles.

Yeah.

Now according to Ada, just so you know, the average dentist does 700,000 a year, which comes out to about 60,000. So if they were working five days a week, you know, it'd be even lower than that. But yeah, the, the fact that you're saying this opens up the opportunity for more Treatment acceptance somewhere around doubling. Whatever you're doing is that's.

And it really gets. And we. I'd love to kind of drill down and kind of pull back the curtain on, on how. But yeah, that's, that's initially, maybe it's not first six months. Nothing's, nothing's like this. If you go in and you're going to be negatively disappointed. So that's accurate expectation here. Within the first chapter of implementing it, you're going to get better and better and better and better. Soon enough, your numbers are going to rise and you're going to hit the double mark a year later.

And your scope that you can handle also is increasing along the way. So you're going to be super picky in the beginning, really small scope. And then as you build on that, that probably also contributes to the outcomes there. Right.

Several of our. Precisely. Nail on the head. A lot of our doctors who've been doing this for, you know, a while get up in the nice, like, 20s, you know, every single day in production. And that's. That's great. And the reason why.

What causes that? Yeah, you were going to say the reason why. What's the outcome of that happening? Obviously, patient acceptance goes up because we just killed the fear factor. Right.

It's acceptance. Yeah. I would say even more than that. It's the concept of value per appointment. And kind of like what you're saying a minute ago, initially, if you've got your IV certification, you're going to wisely. Please, I encourage you to start slow, slow down, speed up. Safety, safety, safety. That's our beat. Initially, you're going to be looking at a very, you know, a narrower column of yes, this is my type of patient. I can service them appropriately. I feel competent and safe. Let's go six months, you expand it nine months, you expand it a year, two years, three years, four years, five years. So eventually, like you pointed out, you're going to be adding, you want to say, be able to have a wide door to many more patients. Say yes to many more patients who have been. And it always comes back to the patient. If they're the type of individual for any reason, fear, medical compromise, whatever, if they haven't been in the dentist for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. What's that look like in them? It looks like they box. And I always say they box themselves into a life corner where now they don't get to think about fear. They don't want to think about anything else. They have to do it because they have to do it. They're not going to pay for that truck they're going to buy this year. They're not going to do X, Y and Z. They're going to get this fixed and they, they don't have a choice. And if you.

That's an interesting part I hadn't thought about is this 50%, as we're calling it, that's been delaying it. The treatment planning on them is going to be more extensive. Right. Because of the natural delay that's happened. And so. And the fear factor is naturally even higher built in. So now they've.

Yeah.

You said they bought themselves in the corner. They've been fearful. They now have more work to do than the typical individual. And so it's a compounding effect. And unless someone can bring in an agent that will smooth that out and allow for that to bridge over, then they're just going to continue down that road. Right.

Yeah. Go ahead, Kalia.

Yeah. Something else to add there. I mean, I think you naturally become a magnet for patients who have avoided the dentist. So they, you know, are going to be higher dollar value. That's not why you're doing it. But that's just, that's the circumstance. On top of that, you know, to your point of the Amazon example, you remove, you remove friction for patients who are already in your patient base because there maybe is a treatment plan you've had and you've been thinking, how do I navigate this conversation and convince them this is work and are we going to wait until you have to have it done? Are we going to be a little more proactive? Because that could save this tooth or whatever the case may be. And they might say it's money or it's the time of having to sit in a chair and schedule out five different appointments. And if you could say, you know what, we can get it done one fell swoop, let's come, we'll. We'll knock it all out. You'll be knocked out. Well, you're going to feel better. You can get the smile you want. You just kind of remove the obstacles where people have reasons to say no. So it's very easy to say yes. And that exists within your current patient population, let alone attracting those who have really boxed themselves into a corner.

I wonder how many people say it's dollars. And, you know, the saying price is an issue when value's not present. And is the value component the fear factor that's feeding into this? Right. And so ironically, even if the sedation increased the price, the value is so dramatically Different. That price now isn't even actually the problem and maybe never was. It was just like, do I want to pay to be in pain? No. Okay. You know, so, yes, the challenge. Right.

And, like, I know you're pointing out earlier, you know, like, there's the. Things are a given. Like, you're supposed to be doing great dentistry. You're supposed to take care of me wonderfully. So, like. Yeah. And if they're. If they're, you know, looking at competitors and where to spend money, that's not an issue anymore. It's like, who can. Who is the one person that can help me? And if you've got your hand up

at the lowest pain point. Yeah. So how does it kind of work tactically? You know, let's say somebody's like, hey, this is really interesting. I want to explore this. What is the typical path for a clinician? And then it sounds like their team as well, to build into, you know, and we're talking about doubling the revenue for your practice, potentially, if you have associates, et cetera. I mean, now everybody's on a doubling path. Even if you got half that result and you increased 50%, you know, it'd be dramatic if you said, oh, I'm only going to work in a very narrow scope. Right. So what is the. What does that journey look like, typically?

Ilya, you want to take. I'm happy to.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I'll start. I'm going to take one step back. I always like to go a little more upstream to get. To get to where we are. So I think just to confirm that we're on the same page of, like, who's a. Who's the right match? Who's a good fit to know that this is. I mean, the thought of doubling production, tripling production. I'm sure many people's ears are peaked, and they're saying, that sounds great. I want to do it. But when we get into what you have to do, it's not, you know, snap of the finger. So let's just make sure we're talking to the right folks, and either internally they can do this audit, or they have a buddy down the street and say, hey, this might be the right fit for you, but how would you even know that? So I think you want to start off by thinking through what procedures are you currently offering? What would you like to offer? If you're already doing some really complex treatments, then you would be in the bucket of, like, IV sedation, maybe. Makes sense. If you're not, but you want to, then you Might say IV sedation makes sense because it's going to allow for that possibility.

And what would you consider complex, like what are typical things that like these start to become a no brainer for?

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, root canals, if you're doing implants, if you're doing more like surgical cases, the things that you would, if you're earlier in your career referring out to, but you're starting to do that on your own, you know those types of treatment plans.

Clay, it's interesting you say that. I remember when I was president of Adso, I was talking to one of these billion dollar DSO groups and they were just talking through stats and they said they had a big firm consulting firm come in and just look at all their data. And they said on their de novos, if they didn't do a certain amount of root canals within the first month, it changed the trajectory of the growth. And when they double clicked on the Y, it was because the patient perceived the dental practice as not being able to get them out of pain. Right. So we think of it as like we do these treatments, we don't do these well, et cetera. From a patient perspective. It was like I went in and they couldn't solve my pain point. They didn't think of it as. So they. So the referrals went down versus someone who could do more complex things, who could remove pain from someone. And I. There wasn't a sedation component talked about in this, but I'm sure that would have been, you know, 10 exit. But then they just say, oh my gosh, I went in, I was in so much pain. No one's been able to solve this. I can imagine the compound. I just went to sleep, I woke up, boom, it was done right. That story starts to take off like wildfire.

I think we see that on the just regular medical side as well. I mean, Clay and I, we are more the marketers. So we're patients both as dental patients and as regular medical patients. And it's very frustrating when you go to your GP and you say, I've got this problem. And they're like, I don't know, go see this person, go see this person. Just it is. You're at a point, you start going to Google Doc to figure it out because you don't have time to make all these appointments and have somebody else tell you that they don't know. So it is very reassuring and encouraging. Back to dentistry. If you could have a dentist who can do it all again with IV sedation, maybe not right at first, but if, if you're the type of dentist who wants to be more of a surgeon and really feel like you're a doctor of dental surgery, then IV sedation certainly is. Is in the realm of possibility and probably the right fit.

So let's say I fall into that group and I'm like, yes, I'm definitely one who's done the ces, I'm doing the more complex cases or I want to, then what's next?

Yeah, Clay, you want to talk about, you know, maybe just walking through the program, what it would look like?

Yeah, I certainly can, but I, I want to. Even before you do that, there's almost like, for me, it's like a two sided coin of like, do I have clinical aptitude or appetite for. This is kind of what Emma's outlined. Like benthic has been stacking up, you know, this skill and that skill. And I can handle these types of treatments and like, I'm really, I feeling compounded and my platform's really strong. Have a strong foundation. That's number one. It's like, do I have the clinical inclination and kind of competence and confidence within myself to bite on it, you know, because it's something that can shift. Number two is really like, I encourage people to think through what phase they are in their own career. Are they, you know, fresh in the field, Are they mid career, Are they trying to get out of the chair a little bit? Or are they eyeing the retirement door and got to be really honest with yourself about where you are and how you want to grow. And you. Probably anybody, there's a million ways to grow. You can grow by way of focusing. And DIA is full of people who are just like, they excel at business, they put the spotlight on the business and there's ways to grow there. You cut this, you tighten that up, you excel this. Put the pedal down. Voila. So there's people that really kind of gravitate toward that, and there's people who gravitate toward growing by way of a clinical avenue. And this is very much. You have to be able to clear that particular hurdle. It is a full enchilada thing. It checks all the, all the boxes, staff, you know, retention, culture, patient care, dollars and cents. All the, all the things are checks. But you have to enter through the door by clearing the hurdle of am I clinically confident in biting on this? And if you clear that, then yeah, IV sedation could very well be a great way to start checking those boxes. Check, check, check, check, check. With that said, I'M happy to kind of like, you know.

Yeah. So, yeah, let's say I'm in, I'm interested. I want to start with myself. Maybe then I'll bring in my associates, but I want to, you know, get myself there first. What does that look like and what's a typical timeframe?

Yeah, timeframe, I would say we say, you know, you can enter the process and get out, you know, around six months. I think that's a healthy, healthy ballpark, knowing that everybody's different and they should be different. If we're talking slow down to speed up and if we're talking safety, safety, safety, focus on the patient first, then you should go at your own speed and really be, do those audits on yourself. How am I learning? Do I feel confident today? Am I ready to move on to the next step? With that kind of mental backdrop as kind of the ally here, I would actually put our eyes on the end of the process first and then we're going to walk us backwards from there, if that's okay. So people listening and watching might be a little lost, but I'm going to start at the end of the process and work backwards for us. The end of the process and I would say with all your IV station training, training programs that we encourage you to look at, please be aware of everything that's out there. It's going to end with a clinical well with us it ends up with ongoing support where we say, this is how we're doing our clinics. Here's this mock drill to run through with your team, here's all your support, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's us before that. It's the clinical phase. For us it is all about safety. It is all about slowdown to speed up. It's about how can you get the most real world ready education in an environment that is going to resonate with you. So a lot of other programs, zero shade, everybody slices the cake a little bit different. It's going to be more of a hospital like experience where you're kind of moving at a much higher clip. With that means being, you know, doing a 15 minute case. A 15 minute case, a 15 minute case, a 15 minute Case and that. And in a hospital like environment, that's not exactly what folks are going to be doing in the real world in the field. And we want to drop them into one of our clinics where they are getting shoulder to shoulder, elbow to elbow, one on one mentorship from a seasoned expert doc who's been doing this for a long time and know what the real world is actually like. Who knows what it's going to be like when you have a, not a 15 minute case every single second. Going to have an hour long case, you're an hour 15 and eventually you're going to work up to a two hour case. Then in a few years maybe you can bite off something and we're going to show you the whole, the whole cross section and kind of walk you through and let you kind of like kind of seep and marinate in the, in the juices of what that is every day in a real life working I a well oiled clinical environment.

And part of the competitive advantage you guys are bringing is some training programs are like here's what you need to do to check off the boxes and be sedation certified. You guys have said that's true. However, it's not as complimentary to what's actually happening. And so we feel like it's better if we just mimicked real life so that your training matched your reality. Is that part of what I'm hearing?

It's a great outline and I'd actually say knowing that as well. We tell all of our graduates, you know, if you, every state has, you know their state requirements to get X number of patient cases and go report to the board and you know, submit and all that stuff. Most states are about 20 cases and there's a few allyers, Indiana for instance, there's 10. What we tell our graduates is like listen, you might have hit your quota and you might have hit your 20 and you're going to move on. If however you'd like to come back and get 10 more or 5 more, 20 more, we're still doing this every day, all day, every day, no charge. Come on back. We want you feeling safe, we want you feeling confident and that's where the rubber meets the road for us is like we want our graduates to get it and not only get it here and here, but get it operationally and implementally. That's not a word, to go out and not be part of the 86% and let it wither on the vine. We want them to get it here, get it here and go do it and stay with them until they keep on coming back to the well, keep on drinking, keep on talking to our faculty, keep on using these documents we've got until finally it's two years and you're actually doing it. You don't need us no more. What a wonderful feeling. That's what we want to create. We also nod, do you have Anything to add on top of that?

Yeah, no, I think that's accurate. I mean, there's state by state requirements, but generally speaking, it's X number of didactic training hours and 20 patient cases. I mean, getting it down to the basics, that's kind of what it is. So for somebody.

So Those could be 15 minute cases or those could be hour cases. Yeah, that's not regulated. And that's where you guys feel that there's a difference in what you're doing.

That's a huge differentiator, especially if you're doing yours in what feels more of like a certain, you know, actually, you know, a hospital or a surgical center where you just have patients coming in that is not going to mimic your real life experience. And so sedation done safely can feel safer than regular dentistry because the drugs are titratable and reversible. If you're doing a 15 minute case, though, you're not even seeing what that looks like. You know, you're. And, and on one hand, when you get going, maybe those are the cases you should do. But I think it's also important for your training to know what the spectrum is and to understand what does it look like to have a longer case. How do I manage that individually as the dentist? What does it look like for my staff to be managing that? So inside advanced dentistry, you see what it looks like to really put it up on its feet. And we encourage you to bring your dental assistant so they can get that training too. And like Clay said, you know, 20 is the benchmark. And 20, you know, what we've seen for the most part, 20 is enough. But if anybody would ever want to come back, that door is open and you are very much encouraged to come back. And I think, again, removing barriers to get going, you know, we can show you the, the wonderful clinic that is advanced dentistry. And it's really invigorating, exciting to get compliments of. Wow, this is just, this operates so smooth and then have a recognition. You're not going to be able to go do that right away. But what are ways that we can again, remove obstacles? So one way is that, you know, we have a partnership to get you a sedation starter kit. So we've got the list of drugs that you're going to need, the equipment that you're going to need, and at a discounted rate, get you going in your office and certain other things. I mean, we're inviting feedback from graduates to say, like, what else do you want? We want to make this conducive. For you at first, it's maybe just help with getting the, the application complete for your state. Great. Like, don't let that be a barrier. There's a lot of things that you need to track down. We're here to help. Then it's how do I get it up in my office from equipment to like Clay said it might be, you know, the marketing, I mean, all those things aren't necessarily built out just yet. We don't want to lead you astray. But it exists because it exists in advanced dentistry. So it's all within our grasp and when somebody asks, we can go track it down. So I think the biggest differentiator is, is that we are really focused on a high quality delivery and being a small, nimble team that can do that.

We have several DEO members who've been through this program and it's been amazing, you know, and so that's part of why we wanted to bring you on. Just because with 400 organizations, you know, we're coaching what now 3 billion in revenue. So we get to kind of see where the market's at on certain things. And this one's been really interesting to us. Not that, you know, 400 members are doing it, there's a handful, but those who are definitely leading in a lot of areas. And what's cool there is, I think that this relationship with you all, you all have some incredible training, both on the clinical and it sounds like on the team side. And then also within deo, our members who are executing the teams can, are talking to each other to continue to build out best practices. So that's a nice synergy that's happening. If they are having trouble just with phone answering or what scripting I should say, et cetera. It sounds like with having the advanced dentistry four practices already executing on this, you all can say, here's the script we use, here's the checklist, those kind of things, which is huge. That's a lot different than most, just clinical. CESAR this is really an implementation program as well. So it's awesome. Awesome. So yeah, what would be next steps if somebody's interested in like, okay, I get it, I get the vision, I get that I could have bigger impact on my community. I could really differentiate myself. I could really serve people who have a lot of fear. I could also look at my own book of unscheduled treatment and be a little bit more honest about like why they might not be coming in. Right. And that adding something in. So if I have that appetite and I wanted to move forward Reach out to y'. All. What would be the best way to contact you and. And to just get started and just kind of find if it's the right fit for me or not?

Yeah, honestly, I would say it's very simple. We want to, like Leah saying earlier, remove as many hurdles and, you know, obstacles as possible. Vesperinstitute.com that's Vesper with a V, right? Victor Vesper institute.com. on there, you'll find all sorts of forms. Just send in a form for us. We are a no sales team. We're not going to try to sell you. I firmly believe in Leah as well. You have to naturally and genuinely want to do this. So for us, the first thing is it's a matching conversation, I'll call it, that is like, hey, let us hear a little bit about where you're at clinically, careerly, and what about this kind of reaches out to you. Okay, great. It sounds to us like you actually might be a good fit. Let's kind of move on to the second date and kind of, again, slow down and speed up. That's really where safety is a mindset. And mindsets populate everything you do, and they show up in everything you do. So for us, if we're honoring that, we're going to slow down and date a little bit. I'm not going to, like, hold anybody off and do the Heisman, but it's not like, hey, give us your money. That's. That's not.

It's really right fit. And what's the frequency of some of these classes or getting started? Like, if I said, I really. I've been looking at this, been looking for a good solution. I want to start sooner than later. Is there some kind of cohort cadence or is it monthly or what is it?

Yeah, we're gearing up to. It's going to be quarterly, I believe, in 2026. This year we're kind of getting. We're gearing up there again, slowing down, making sure everything we can, everything we say we can do and we can deliver and really help our graduates as nimbly and as effectively as we can actually do it in real life. Very important to us. So this year we've got a. I think there are spots still open in our July cohort and there are spots still open in our October cohort. And then we're going to move on to 2026. So if you're thinking about it, there is plenty of homework to do beforehand. It's a commitment, and it should be, again, it has to be something that's genuine to you. You got to want to do it and you got to commit to it because it's real deal stuff. So there's some homework to do. So if you're thinking about July or October, go ahead and give Lee and Clay a holler and we'll go from there.

Awesome. Thank you guys so much for all this information. At the end of the day, anytime we can find individuals who are helping us take care of the patients better, helping us retain team members better, and helping the practice to grow. It's a great combo. So appreciate everything that you guys have talked through here. Awesome resource. Reach out to Vesper for those who are interested in DEO, go to deodentalgroup.com you'll see here if you're on the YouTube here. We've got our summit coming up that is for members only, but absolutely awesome. We're going to be talking through the labor codes for practices at different levels. Break out into our tribes and our our masterminds. Some great keynote speakers and Vesper will be there so you'll be able to connect with them as well and dig into more info. But you can go to DEO Dental Group and have a growth accelerator call and talk to one of our team members there. Thank you all so much again and to our listeners. Keep smiling. Thank you for listening to deo's Growth Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Continue the conversation on our Facebook group and meet other dental leaders. Get questions answered and the strategies you need to succeed. Plus, we have some free resources for you right there on the Facebook page. Remember, you're not alone. Let's do this together. Join DEO's Growth Secrets Group on Facebook and until next time, keep smiling.