230: How One Dentist Added $10K in Monthly Revenue Using Smarter Payment Processing

I'll tell you one thing that's going good. All of a sudden, I'm showing an extra $10,000. $10,000. That's great. Where did that come from? He said, well, I signed up with NADA Payments. Hi, I'm Emmett Scott, and just like you, I've had my ups and downs in the dental industry, but times are changing. The DO has built a map of how to succeed in one of the most challenging industries to navigate. On this show, we talk to dental industry leaders, solve problems, and get you the answers you need to face these challenging times and thrive. Welcome to DEO's Growth Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Now let's get started.

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Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of DEO Grow Secrets. I'm your fearless host, Emmett Scott, and today I'm really excited about having NADA Payments. Roman and Steven both here, who are leading the charge, helping all of us figure out how the heck we manage this inflationary environment. And I'm excited to get into this because this is a situation where we've had several members now using NADA payments for a while, and so we have a track record. We get to talk about what's working, what's not, etc. But before I bring them in, you know, one of the challenges that I think everyone in dentistry, and frankly, health care, is facing as, as this inflation continues to move up. Because remember, we've said dentistry is recession proof. We've said that for years and years. We've never said it was inflation proof. And I think what we've proven is it's not. You know, that. That it takes a lot more innovation and thinking to overcome rising costs when it comes to labor costs and everything else. You know, my, my son was working at Home Depot right after Covid happened, and he kept getting like, these dollar raises, which he didn't deserve every month. And I'm like, how are they doing this? Well, they just walk over to wood or screws or metal, and then they just raise the price. And we don't have. Most of us don't have that luxury. Most of us are kind of on a fixed revenue component. And so we have to be innovative on where are we going to look for opportunities to squeeze out the different parts of the P and L to be more innovative to bring in technology. So with that, I want to welcome both Roman and Steven here to the podcast. Great to have you all here. And before we get into this, I know both of you are into racetracks and racing cars. Are you guys on the NASCAR side of things, the F1 side of things, like, you know, or some other niche?

Yeah.

Thank you for having us, Emmett. But yeah, as sports goes, we follow more F1 and like the GT racing world, but Steve and I kind of participate in just the grassroots stuff. Take your own car to the track on the weekend, have some fun with it. You know, there's plenty of ways to. To lose money. I think this. This is a quite a fun one if you're going to do it.

Is it one of those things where, like, to make a million dollars in racing, you start with $2 million kind of thing? Yeah.

Yeah.

I think you have to be. I think you have to be a billionaire to become a millionaire with racing. So, you know, we keep it light. It does get quite expensive. But if anybody else at the DEO shares that sort of passion with not a payments, we could at least help fund their weekend projects. Yeah.

At least one of the tires replaced, you know, or something like that.

Y. Yeah.

For those not watching this on our YouTube channel, you can see Steven's background. He's got the model cars back there too, going.

Yes.

It's awesome. What do you guys think of the Brad Pitt movie coming out the F1? You think it'll be good or.

I think it will be great. For anybody that doesn't watch F1.

Okay. It's like an entry level drug, like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But for the rest of you, it'd be like, that's not accurate. That's not really how that.

Yeah, unfortunately it should be. They filmed it all within the production and within the actual races that occurred throughout all of last year. So the whole F1 organization had a huge playing part in all of this. So we're excited to see it. You know, it's something different.

Okay, awesome. All right, well, let's talk about what nada payments is Doing and kind of the innovation you've brought to the marketplace. And you know who wants to start off? Because I think this is super helpful. It's such a simple concept on one side stance, but like everything in business, it's complex to actually implement. Well. Right. And the scripting that goes along with it, along with the technology. So yeah. How did you guys start thinking about doing this? Nada. Payments.

Yeah. Well, we've been doing payment processing for over 15 years. And in 2017 it shifted where rules and regulations changed. Supreme Court rulings where you can now charge a different fee for a credit card and a different fee for a debit card and cash. Right. Before you only had to have one set price. Cash, credit, check, debit, doesn't matter, all had to be by law the same price. This was, this was found a little bit incorrect and unconstitutional because small business owners, private practices, they're ending up eating up all of the costs on accepting cards. Whereas billion dollar corporations like energy and things like, were always able to pass a fee along to get rid of these costs like utility companies like gas stations. And that was found unconstitutional. It's not right. So we saw this coming. We shifted our entire model to a surcharge model, meaning you're passing a fee on credit cards, not on debit cards. Specifically this because it follows a strict regulation and compliance, which we'll go over a little bit later. But this allows patients to have options on how they can pay. This allows practices to eliminate 80% of the cost.

So it's amazing. One of the challenges I quickly learned is even though that passed at like the federal level, the rules still exist. If I'm right, at every state level. Right. I mean there's local jurisdiction rules that have to be navigated on this, correct?

That is correct, yeah. Yes. So Massachusetts, Connecticut, California and New York have a specific set of rules of how to implement this program properly. And then you have another set of rules from the card network brands like Visa, Amex, Discover, they have their own rules as well. So you have to make sure that you're not only following their rules, but like you mentioned, the state rules as well.

Yeah, I think that's one of the first places when people start doing a little research. They're like, oh, this isn't just me going out and saying, hey, we're charging you a fee now. You got to do it the right way and compliant way, otherwise you end up in, in big trouble. So that's kind of rule number one of this. As, as practice owners are kind of coming on Board. What's primarily their concern that they come to you all with, you know, they're like, hey, I want to do this, but what.

But I don't want to upset my patients. How are my patients going to react? That is the number one concern. That is the only concern they really have. Right. They want to make sure that their patients won't get upset at them or their front desk staff for adding a fee now to a credit card so that that would be the only concern that they have. But once they come on board, they understand the concept, the logic behind it. And usually when we do our month end statement reviews, once they're on board, the first thing they tell me is, you know, Steve, I should have done this six months ago, I should have done this a year ago. Why didn't I do it sooner? What was I so afraid of?

Because the amount of friction that they're getting isn't nearly the amount versus the benefit that they're getting. I mean, one thing. Do you think the thing that we have working for us right now is so many other industries are already ahead of us on this concept. You know, I mean, most places I go, they're already passing on the merchant fees to me.

That's, that's a really great question. And this is something that comes up on meetings all of the time. Practice owners tend to sometimes forget everything that they've went through to get to the point of where they are. And the fact that their patients are choosing them not based on your $30 more, $30 less. They're choosing them based on the, the care and expertise, the overall experience at the practice. So the practice might not have done this before in the past, but their patients for the last seven years or so, they've seen it everywhere that they go. The fact that these patients have a choice on how they want to pay is the key to the entire program. So once they come on board, they realize this is a complete non issue. Nobody bats an eye on it. Yes. One or two patients might say, hey, what's this surcharge? But then they simply opt out. They pay by debit, and no issue whatsoever.

Yeah, let's, let's get into that. And so we're not boxing the patient and we're basically giving them choices now, right?

That's correct.

Yeah. So kind of talk through that and maybe some of the scripting or however deep you want to go on, how does this typically work? Right. The patient comes in, goes through their normal rigamarole, they go there to kind of settle out their co payment or their full payment, whatever it might be. And then. And then what?

So the patient is presented with the price and full transparency. So we pioneered surcharging for health care and dentistry. We started building out all of these systems from the ground up. We're not just reselling somebody's technology like a clover device that you can just get any processing company with that. It comes as a train of thought from A to Z, meaning from the simplest concept. You just elaborate it so that everybody is on the same page. When the patient is presented with the price, they're let known of what the price is in full. Hey, this is 103, meaning $100 and a 3% surcharge. It's shown as a breakdown on our system. So, hey, this is 103. If you're paying by debit, it's $100. How would you like to pay? Always be transparent with the patient. Let them know the total price of everything. Let them know that it's lesser than if they pay by debit, you're giving them the option. The patient is deciding on how they want to pay. They've seen this everywhere else before, from DMV and government, municipality here. They're just making that decision. It's presented to them in full.

I think that's so powerful. I mean, even that simple concept right there that your technology is solving. Because I think when a dentist thinks about doing this, and then they're like, okay, number one, what's all the compliance rules that I don't know about? But number two, is somebody going to, like, sit over there with a calculator and redo this and then show it on a piece of paper and, you know, how is that going to work? So one of the things that nada payments technology does is just makes this flow. Very simply, all the math is happening for them. Correct?

That is correct. Exactly. Yeah, correct.

It's part of the compliance. And I think it's a good time to kind of just speak on, like, the regulations.

Yeah, please.

On it. Steve, do you want to cover the. The main kind of three regulations and kind of what practices kind of have a skew on it?

Yeah, sure, absolutely. I mean, the most important one is obviously you're not allowed to surcharge debit cards. Right. Because a debit card does not have any incentives. There's no rewards, there's no cash back. And Visa, MasterCard does not want debit cards to be surcharged. So the technology that we provide automatically detect credit and debit on its own. So that means the patient doesn't need to tell you if it's credit or debit. Your staff does not need to select the button that says credit or debit, and the patient does not need to enter a PIN number. When the sale happens, our system and our technology will automatically recognize debit and it will automatically remove the surcharge. So this eliminates any user mistakes, and this just makes the whole process convenient and seamless. Some of the other compliance requirements are the credit card receipt needs to have the surcharge as a separate line item. So we're not just tacking it onto the total and giving the patient one total. We have to give a clear breakdown prior to the sale and after the sale. What was the base amount, what was the surcharge amount? So that's clearly presented to the patient. And the last but not least is transparency. Not only are you verbally informing the patients about the surcharge, you also need to have posted signage, and any treatment plan that you have will need to have a disclaimer regarding the surcharge as well. So once all of these three things are combined, you're going to be fully compliant and you need to be registered with the card brand networks that you're doing surcharging. So what, what do I mean by that? On traditional processing, when you have a traditional merchant agreement with your processing company, you're not allowed to surcharge because that goes against the existing agreement. So when the doctors and offices come on board with us, we make sure we register them and let Visa, MasterCard and all the card networks know that this merchant is going to surcharging. So they ever come in to check or if there's any inquiry, you're fully compliant, you're fully on board, and you're doing everything in a way where it's not going to get you in trouble

or find that's wrapped into the package. So I don't have to worry about any of this. You know, as I think through the check boxes, I mean, the compliance piece is huge. Because I think anyone listening to this kind of thought, okay, how do I do this? Maybe I just have them grab a calculator and do it. It's like, oh, wow, this is. Is a lot more involved than that. But they're also worried about just the general scripting. Do you guys provide that scripting and some kind of onboarding process? Because the front desk, as straightforward as this even sounds, just listening, you know, you could almost say, listen to the podcast. There you go. Do you buy them some kind of training that says you Say this, then you have them click here. You know, those kind of things.

Absolutely. So we have two steps to our onboarding process. The first step is we go in, we install, we make sure everything works. Then we make a separate appointment for a full staff training or individual staff training, where we coach them on how to properly present this to the patients so that the staff is confident when they're doing so right. Because we want them to be confident. That's how the program works. We train them on what to say, how to present it, what if the patient gets angry or upset about it, or what if the patient questions the fee. We have ways to coach and educate the team on how to properly address each situation. And once they do the training, they're fully confident, confident, and we never hear from them.

I was just in one of my tribe coaching because, you know, we meet with our DEO members every week, every other week, and I said, hey, what's going good? You know, what's not? They said, I'll tell you one thing that's going good. All of a sudden, I'm sure I'm showing an extra $10,000 of, of cash on my bank account. I was like, 10,000? That's great. Where did that come from? And he said, well, I signed up with not a payments. You know, I saw him at your. One of your summits. They came in, we were really concerned about X, Y and Z, and they helped us navigate through this. The practice has said, you know, that the team has said this has not been nearly as big of a deal as we thought it was going to be. And he said, one interesting thing is I am ending up with a lot more cash, you know, as people select, like, I'll just pay with cash. And they're like, okay, great, you know, so he's like, now I'm navigating new cash coming in. But he said, between what's going in my bank account and having all this extra cash, it's kind of working out well. So anyway, that just happened this week before the podcast. I thought it was great. And then we've had several other members that said that was a lot more seamless than I was expecting. So, anyway, kudos to you all. Now everyone who's on the collection side of things, who's doing RCM processes, you know, and feels the pain of the insurance companies and all those things is thinking to themselves a very detailed question, which is, where am I going to book this surcharge? How does this integrate into the practice management software? Is this some separate thing? Do I have to hire 10 more people now to book this $3 charge, all of those things. So kind of walk us through that. Do you guys integrate in with the practice management software? How does it work if we got nerdy here for a second on the ledger side of the world?

Yeah, yeah, I'll be happy to elaborate on that. So we integrate into practice management software is definitely the main three, like Open Dental and Dentrix and Eaglesoft and a few various others. When payments are posted onto a patient's ledger, the surcharge is not posted with that payment. It has nothing to do with the treatment of that patient. So if they took a payment for a hundred dollars, patient paid with an amex, it was 103 total. The patient's ledger shows $100 posted, which is correct. You don't want that surcharge in there to throw off collection production numbers. You don't want it to appear as a credit on their account and you reconcile. Really simple. Again, because this is built by us from the ground up. We provided from day one the proper reporting. You have three layers of reports that show base amounts that match day sheets on the dental software. A surcharge amount that shows what was collected on top, paid by the patient with a credit card, and then a total settlement at the end of the day. So on three layers you can see on one report you can reconcile to your day sheet, to your settlements, into your bank account. You don't have to subtract anything. It's right there for you. And that's designed so that way practice managers and staff or owners are not sitting there at the end of the day and calculating everything and wondering, what is a credit card, what is a debit card? Where did this fee go? It's all laid out right there in front of you.

It's awesome. Well, and then the next layer is the accounting side of things. Who, you know, typically is trying to book the merchant fee somewhere on the profit and loss statement. So it's like, hey, here's what we produce, here's what we collected so far. Okay, what's all our merchant expenses? They would take that sheet then and offset any merchant expenses that they had, Correct?

Correct. Not only that, especially for, let's say dental groups, you have multiple locations. You would simplifying reporting, you would have all of your merchant statements through all one login. You don't have to go through multiple different companies to see where are these payments coming from. They were from online. Well, that's from a different company. The in person payments and text to Pays, that's from a different company. It unifies it with our technology because we're offering not just a terminal, but it's a full solution. So in person and text to pay and email to pay recurring payments, payment links on websites, QR codes, patient financing, you name it. It's all incorporated in our, in our system. So when you're looking for statements to see profit and losses to deal with your accountant at the end of the month and everything like that, it's all bundled up in one place so that you're not struggling to full reports from 10 different locations, which is huge for dental, Dental groups. Right. Everyone is so busy doing so much across many locations, you want to unify

it even, I mean even two locations, it's not able to see clearly what's coming out of each one and which should get allocated to each one. Etc. Talk a little bit about some of the other capabilities then and we can come back to the surcharge component. But you mentioned several things. So text to pay and, and some of those things. Can you kind of talk us through those and how they're utilized by some of your best clients?

Yeah, absolutely. So one thing we've noticed when, when we started with working with dentists is we've noticed that almost every other office we work with used four different companies to do the same thing. They would use their bank to accept payments in the office. Then they would use their company like Weave, that is a patient communication company, to send out text to pay links or email to pay links. And then they would use another billing company for an online portal for payments that are over the phone or if they need to take a payment that's manually entered. So what we did is we understood that there's no reason for the dental office to have a puzzle piece solution, right when they're using four different companies, four different fees, four different ann fees for different contracts. So what we did is we consolidated all of those features into our one platform so now they can take the payment in person with us. They could take a payment online with us. They could send a payment link to the patient's cell phone or email with us. They're able to keep a credit card on file in a very secure manner where there's no liability for the practice. They can create payment plans that are automated. A lot of these offices were doing manual payment plans where they would have a little sticky note on the wall saying, hey, on the first I have to char seven patients. And they go in and they manually charge each patient. So a lot of These tedious tasks that they were doing with different companies, manual entry and all of that, we consolidated and we automated the process for them. And that's a big part of our solution. That not only do we save you money, but we bring you a lot of value to your staff in time saving and efficiency.

They're all working out of the same system no matter how. So now the collections team is working out the same system as the front desk team and.

Exactly.

People are trying to use. Tell me, what is the typical savings? I mean, if somebody's trying to do the math in their head right now, you guys have a lot of data here, but you know, what are kind of, I don't know, good, better, best type outcomes for some of your, your clients here that they typically can see and then probably on like a per practice basis and then someone can multiply it if they, they happen to have more than one practice.

Yeah, actually I'd be happy to dive into that. I could even share like a comparison that we did just recently for a practice that came on board. Yeah, it'll show direct numbers and I think this, this speaks volumes.

So for instance, let's say those on YouTube, you'll be able to see this and then we'll just kind of talk it through verbally.

Yeah, I'll verbalize this as well. So this is a practice that was doing $120,000 a month in credit card and debit card sales. And they had a pretty decent rate overall. They had a 2.3% rate and they were paying 2900, close to $3000 a month with their previous processing company. Once they shifted over to a surcharge model, the only thing that they paid in total to process the same amount of volume was $690. So they saved $2,200 per month for that one location in the course of one month.

Well, which is huge.

Yeah, Think about the math on that. So we'll just say close to 2500. That's, you know, an extra 30,000 a year.

30,000 a year? Yep.

That's a front desk person potentially. That's, you know, easily like being able to give raises where necessary. That's being able to hire hygienists with some extra dollars. Like those are real tangible dollars. That one could either just go back into the owner's pocket or give them the competitive advantage. You know, feed that over to one of our support DDS partners and hire someone full time over there to be able to process stuff for you and do insurance verification, whatever it might Be. So it's not just the. The dollar savings, but it's the ability then to roll that in that starts this virtue cycle. Right. Of the correct. And you multiply that times two locations, three locations, 10. Locate. I mean, it really starts to add up dramatically.

Yeah, There's. There's no limit. Right. Staffing and equipment and upgrades and renovations and other companies and technology. That's what it's really all about, increasing your bottom line.

I like to always ask people this question, walk me through what your best clients do to be successful with this, but then also tell me, like, what the worst, you know, the people who haven't executed well. Because I think it's just helpful to know the contrast. Right. So people who've done this well, what do they typically do? And people who have a harder time with this and don't execute well, what's usually the bottleneck?

The ones that do really well are confident when they're doing this because they know that they're trying it for a reason. Right. They want it to be successful. So two comes in two parts. The confidence and the delegation and how to onboard. So they assign somebody that's going to work with us specifically. We're not going to work with 10 different people and just be very disorganized. It's organized. Every step is accounted for from A to Z. And it makes both us and the practice efficient. When it comes to implementing some of the less efficient offices, it just takes longer to implement because if we're not dealing with one person, we have to deal with multiple people. Schedules don't align, things don't align. If they have an IT company that's unresponsive, we have to kind of go in and really have them focus on it. And that sheds some light on the company they're dealing with. Right. If we're providing the information, we're doing everything on schedule and somebody on their end is not, and they're spending money with them, it shows them that maybe it's time to look elsewhere. So it really depends on the office and how quickly they want to implement this and how effective they are in delegating the tasks and for the people in their employment to work with us and, you know, go through the process.

Yeah, it's. That's super helpful. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, you have to have a leader. Right. That's going to kind of champion. I think sometimes as practice owners, it becomes like abdication rather than delegation, like, okay, great, good luck. Make that happen.

Yeah.

And you have to have. If you're going to USB port into something, there has to be another side to that plug that happens. And when that happens, then it executes really well. So that's a common thing, I hear.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

As much as we'd like to, we cannot want it more than the office. Right. And they have to want it as well.

So yeah, yeah, that's a powerful concept. Anything else? I mean this has been super helpful, I think. Very rich and I mean somewhat of a no brainer. Right. Because now the patient has options. You've got the additional offsetting expense. Right? The income to offset that expense. We talked a little bit about how that can roll into other things. You've got a centralized solution too, frankly. When I get a piece of paper and it says, Emmett, you owe this ten dollars or a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars, do you know what the main thing that goes through my. Well first it's like, what, what do I owe it for? And then after that it's like, like, so how can I pay it quickly and easily. And if they're like write a check and stick it in this envelope or whatever, or call in to me, guess what I'm gonna do? Not pay it. I don't pay it because I'm like, you can call me and you can give me a simpler form. I mean I'm just entitled at this point around that. But man, if there's a QR code, if they text me, I mean it's just so easy, right? If I can just Apple pay something over, whatever, it might be super simple. Yeah, it's all about, I mean, Amazon has ruined all of us, right? It's like, if I can get it in a day, why am I waiting two days or five days if I can order it?

Exactly.

And so just convenience. I, I found so often Dennis are like, my patients don't pay. And I'm like, no, you just make it too hard to pay. That's really the, the bigger, that's the truth.

Yes, that is exactly the issue. And we, we help them solve this issue.

Or you spend $50 in labor costs trying to hunt down $12 in a co payment. Right,

right. So it has to make sense. It all has to make sense. And you can have all of this technology. But the idea is again coming back to that initial concept of it's a very simple concept of how it's all presented right to the same way that it's a very simple concept. You introduce simplicity to the entire system. So that way with a click of a button. You can choose how you want to take a payment from that patient, a QR code, a text to pay, a card on file, run that payment seamlessly with their approval. However it is, keep it simple, provide the technology and it works tremendously for practices. We wouldn't be here if it wasn't.

How does somebody reach out and say, all right, yeah, I want to learn more. What's the easiest way for them to do that? By the way, nada is spelled N A D A just in case anyone's wondering.

Yeah. But just before that, just to add to what Roman said, another important aspect of our technology is that when it comes to staffing, right, if you have multiple companies that you're working with, you have to train the staff on each company. It's time consuming, it becomes confusing. So when you have everything in one solution, it's very easy to trap to train a new staff member to use the system right away because everything is in one place. They don't need five different logins, they don't need to remember five different two factor codes or text messages just to go in. They use one solution and they get trained on one solution and it just makes life easier.

One support number to call, which is exactly.

Yes.

Yeah. So I mean to reach us, we are in the DO registry with our website link. They can contact us directly with our email and our direct phone numbers. And one important part about our company's motto is the support that we provide. Okay, you're not going to be dealing with email support where you're going to wait 24 hours for a response. You're going to have a dedicated person assigned to your account that you can text and call no matter what the situation is. And if that person cannot handle your situation at that time, we will get support to call you. And that alleviates a lot of the pain that offices deal with when they have to wait on hold for 40 minutes just to get the run around of what they need to do. And at the end they have to email somebody to open up a ticket. So that's a big, big thing with us.

If you're going to be at the DEO event coming up June 12th through the 14th out in Phoenix, NADA payments will be there. Roman, Stephen, excited to see you there. If you are not and you're a DEO member, go into our new app. You can go right down into our dental vendors and innovation partners and you'll see nada in there. Really easy to get a hold of them. And if you're outside of all of that then go to Google Google and type in nada payments and you will find them nada and connect with them. This feels like a no brainer to me. So really appreciate you guys innovating within the space. You know, as I often say, you guys are much more than vendors. All of all of you are who are doing these investments for us so that we have these resources to be able to take our practices to the next level. So I really appreciate you all being on here and maybe we'll see you at the F1 movie or chat about it.

Thank you for having us. Thank you for that.

Thank you, Ahmed. Maybe we'll do a track day for all the dentists that are car enthusiasts with deo.

That.

I would love to do that.

We.

Yeah, we. We glossed over that idea. I would love to do that.

Okay, we'll have to get you all full circle. Yeah. Aaron, who's listening in on this? We'll have to plan an event like that. That would be. That would be awesome.

All right.

And for those who are listening, feel free to come over, check out DEO dental Group and see what a unique group we have. You know, I say that our competitive advantage is a bunch of ambitious entrepreneurs who are also vulnerable and humble, talking about how they're crushing it and also how they're getting crushed. And it's just great to be in that group. Until next time, keep smiling. Thank you for listening to deo's Growth Secrets podcast for dental organizations. Continue the conversation on our Facebook group and meet other dental leaders. Get questions answered and the strategies you need to succeed. Plus, we have some free resources for you right there on the Facebook page. Remember, you're not alone. Let's do this together. Join DEO's Growth Secrets Group on Facebook. And until next time, keep smiling.