73: CEO of a DSO with Josh Gwinn of Hero Practice Services

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of DSO Secrets. I'm your fearless host, Emmett Scott, and today I'm with Josh Gwynn, CEO of HERO Practice Services. Josh, thank you so much for being on the webcast podcast with us today. I really appreciate it.

Of course. Absolutely. Pleasure and a privilege, Emmett. Appreciate you having me. Thank you very much.

Yeah, I'm doing a series now with these CEOs of DSOs. And so there's lots of questions that I've been getting. And instead of speaking for the entire universe of DSOs, I thought I'm just going to come out and ask these CEOs these questions directly. So with that, I want to get started. Obviously, we're sitting on this backdrop of COVID 19. Well, I guess before I get into that, I probably should give people perspective. Your DSO is supporting how many practices and different services?

Yeah, yeah, I'll give you a. Give you a little backdrop for perspective. HERO sees dental vision and orthodontics. So all three practices are typically co located under one roof. And there's 73 practices across seven states currently, so a couple east coast states and a lot of Midwest and headquartered out of Colorado Springs with our primary group of practices up and down the Front Range in Colorado.

All right, so for all of those out there who were frustrated with their one governor or with this one state or this county and so forth, you had a few extra that you were dealing with there.

Yeah, it's funny you bring that up. We literally call it the whiplash that we've received from the seesaw guidance from. And you said at county level, all the way up through, you know, national CDC, OSHA. At one point, we were tracking somewhere around 27 different government entities to be able to make sure we were following as many of their edicts as possible.

Yeah, that's awesome. On one side because what I hear in there is the desire to follow it. And of course, very frustrating on the Other, because as everyone's experienced, there's been the conflicting information in trying to do what's the right thing. So again, with that backdrop of COVID 19, talk us through a little bit of your process and kind of where have you landed as far as ensuring the safety of patients, the safety of your staff? And maybe for some of our listeners and those watching, they're looking for processes that they can be implementing too to ensure that they're doing the best they can for their practices, for the safety of patients and safety of staff.

Yeah, for sure.

Secrets you could share there?

Oh, tons. And I'll start with a little perspective. On March 15, we were 1100 teammates strong across our seven states, about 200, 250 providers all in. And really March 17 came and we received all the guidance that started to flood through. And interestingly, at Hero, we have a clinical leadership board, so our clinicians dictate anything that has to do with clinical that it runs through the clt. We had had a CLB meeting where we were kind of contemplating, hey, do we need to turn, you know, turn the, turn the doors closed and turn the lights off due to this? And there wasn't any guidance. I mean, and you'll remember this time, this is mid March travel starting to slow down. Things are really, really scary. And then about an hour later, we received that guidance after that meeting and within five minutes of that guidance coming down, we turned off dental across the company, we turned off orthodontics. And the way that we did that is we had had communication with our teammates through all teammate emails and all teammate town halls that I lead throughout kind of the ramp up period or the preparation period where we knew things were starting to get a little bit dicey so that everybody was kind of on standby. We also committed to our teammates that we would be guided by government agencies, we would be guided by the CDC, we would be guided by 100% by ADA. We call it the Alphabet soup. But we would be guided by the Alphabet soup to make sure that we were following along with the best scientific guidance that we could find. So as soon as that happened, we put the word out that next day we were able to contact all of our patients and bring the practices kind of to what we called the pause point. And then vision followed 24 hours later. So 24 hours after gentle and ortho, we got the call from the American Optometric association and so we took that one down as well. So we went from 1100 teammates strong to about 100, a little bit more than 100 teammates. And we did that within about 72 hours total to where the company just set on pause. At that point, you know, similar to everyone else, we really didn't know, you know, what was going to happen. So we just stopped. We kind of reassessed everything. We set up a series of nightly emails that I've been sending to every single teammate since that first day. So I've sent out a communique with an update every single Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday since then. And every day we update on what the latest guidance is, what we're receiving, and we do this with an inspirational message and sort of a, hey, you know, here's how we all stick together as a group and we get through this, but also with the guidance by state, by county, all these different places that we've been following as people, you know, kind of the initial shock hit, there was about a two week period where we were just going through the machinations of human resources, et cetera. And then it became full force preparation to restart. The way that a hero kind of looked at that was twofold. One, you know, using our non existent crystal ball, what is the best possible PPE that we can find? And of course, N95s became something that we all learned about as a society, if we didn't already know, and we started to source those. So in those early days, we were able to hunt down thousands of N95s and KN95s really early and get those stored in our warehouse, along with pallets of gloves, other surgical levels, 1, 2 and 3 masks. We weren't quite ahead enough to know that we would need booties and bonnets and disposable lab coats, but we got the other things in place, so we did that early and then we took a look.

Can I ask you, Josh, just real quick, and I love where your thought process and methodology here as the clinical team was making these decisions. I think some of the things we've seen is that not all the clinicians were totally on the same page either, and definitely not all the states and counties were on the same page. So as you were bringing down to, let's say, emergency care, and I'm curious, did you go ahead and shut down completely and just say, hey, we just can't operate in this fire? Were you doing some level of emergency care? How did you find that in navigating this?

Yeah, great question. So as soon as we got our hands on the appropriate ppe, we stood up emergency clinics in every one of our micro counties or in our micro areas. So we say we look at. We look at metro Denver. We had two clinics, northern Denver and southern Denver, that were seen emergencies. We also stood up urgenthub.com so urgent-hub.com and what urgent Hub was, was, you know, in that those initial days, we didn't know how long this was going to last. So the idea with Urgent Hub was to come on and really keep folks out of the er. And the way this worked is we took flyers and we reached out to every one of the, you know, pediatricians as well as doctors offices, primary care, and the emergency rooms and let them know that if you have a dental emergency, send them to Urgent Hub. Hero would then do a teledentistry appointment, which we stood up in less than seven days. All of this got stood up in a week. So we stood this up and then we started to reach out to these patients through tele immediately. And that way we could triage and manage through each one of our groups with the limited amount of PPE we had at first. So that was really the first step to your point. You know, day one, we set up a crisis management war room team. We stood up an internal email for every teammate to be able to flood that box with questions, tips, tricks, thoughts, and have this communication flow inside. And then secondarily, it was set UP emergency clinics, urgenthub.com, get that prepared so that the communities could be as safe as possible and we could do our part to flatten the curve and keep those patients out of the emergency room.

How does your clinical team respond to all this? I mean, it sounds very organized and methodical, so I would think that it would be fairly positive. But what did they see, their role in this? It sounds like you didn't move completely into emergency care until some of this PPE was in place. Was that driven by them or what was the decision making around some of that?

You know, it was all happening concurrently. So if you think, you know, we had the quote, unquote, war room team did include our CLB leader, our chair, as well as our vice chair for the clb. So our lead dentist, our lead orthodontist, and our lead optometrist are all three part of this group, but then they were also conducting over here at the exact same time. So as we were preparing to find the source, the PPE and get that in place and make sure we shipped all over the country with face shields, et cetera, they were taking care of standing up, who the doctors would be, what the teams would look like, how many teams Would run per, you know, the thing that we said, and this was Emmett, literally five minutes from getting the guidance, we walked into a room and I'll never forget this, the team came together and I just said, team, listen. In times of crisis, leaders lead. It's just what happens. And you're either a leader or you're not. And we are about to find out the truth about every single one of us. My belief is that my team can do things that others can't. And we're about to show the world. So that was the mentality we took. And our clinicians jumped right on board. They were, they've been behind me for three years now and they were 100% beside me on this one, pushing us forward to make sure, you know, we said we have three key tenets and number one is safety, period. You know, safety for the teammates, safety for our communities, and safety for what we call our little bosses. We're primarily pediatric, as you know, and we look at every one of those children and their caregivers as our bosses. We call them the little bosses every day. You see it throughout Hero. And that was really the thing. Like, you know, the last thing we're going to do is, is put any of our people in harm's way or allow one of our little bosses to go without the care that they have to have, Especially in an emergency like this. You know, the worst thing I can imagine is having all that pain, not being able to eat, not being able to sleep and not having anywhere to go and being too afraid to go to the emergency room because you're not sure what's out there.

So talking with the pediatric docs, I think one of the things that we can take away from this that was probably missed in general is we said, listen, we're going to stand up emergency care and you just need to communicate and reach out. And as you think about 4 year olds and 6 year olds and 8 year olds, I'm not sure that they have the ability to articulate, even in the best of times, their oral health care needs. So if we do this again, so to speak, I think in talking through and strategizing with other pediatric doctors, I think a different strategy for the pediatric segment of our population is going to be needed, especially if the longevity had gone much longer than what was already happening. I don't know what your thoughts on that are as well.

No, I agree wholeheartedly. One of the steps we took originally was the urgent hub. And the reason was, you know, one, we didn't know what the Scope of this was going to be. We didn't know the length of how long the shutdown would last in any state. We still have states that are shut down today, frankly. We have, you know, many are up, thankfully, and are starting to get a little bit of traction, but we also have many that are still shut down, especially on the east coast, you know, in some hard hit areas like DC in the case of this, you know, reemerging or having an issue like this. Again, I completely agree with you. Finding some sort of pacing where we can still do, at a minimum, teletriage or something for these children and have, you know, pediatric dentists who, you know, this is their livelihood, this is what they do, this is their expertise. Having them ask the questions, having them build the rapport with the child and the caregiver and being able to make sure that that child is not in an emergent situation.

More proactive, reaching out. Right. I think children in general need a healthcare provider helping triage more than just kind of waiting for them to respond. It's a side note, but I think it's because of the patient type that you support and serve. It's just something to note, I think in the future. So, I mean, from an activity perspective, from a planning perspective, you all really responded amazingly, which I give you credit for. As you went across the different states, did you have clinicians who were having different responses to some of this? How was it handled if a clinician said, listen, I don't want to do emergency care, maybe they have concerns, personally or otherwise. We'll be empathetic towards that. How did they source that or determine that?

Yeah, one of the very first things we decided, Emmett, was that, you know, everyone is going to respond to this differently. And again, there are mitigating circumstances in everyone's life that we don't know. And far be it from us to try to dictate terms to anyone. So what we did across our entire organization is, and we've repeated this almost daily as a mantra. If you don't feel safe, don't come back. That's okay. That is absolutely fine for you to stay home if you don't feel like you can be your best in service to the boss. Right. Stay home. This is a great time for that.

Josh, we should probably stop you there. I've interacted with you, seen you at conferences and stuff. You have this mantra throughout your company around the boss. Can we just pause for a second there? You kind of talk to us like that's a jargon piece that you Use, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. Again, every kid, every caregiver who walks in the door, we see them as our bosses. We know that we don't exist without them. You know, we live in service to their oral care and their oral health, but we really look at it as if we treat them. We always say we treat them holistically, with respect. We deal with a primarily Medicaid community, so there's always, you know, folks within that community. And frankly, as a child, I was part of that community. I grew up in that community and, you know, lived this life. And there are times where we are the only person that they see that gives and inspires hope in them in a day. You know, we always assume that every time we interact with one of our bosses, it's an opportunity for us to change their life. So when we say we treat the, you know, we treat the boss, we mean, you know, getting down on our hands and knees and speaking to them face to face and making sure they understand that, you know, for us, they're all that that matters. They're everything. So when you hear me say the boss, that is just. That's who we're for. We're here for the boss. No other reason. You know, pre pandemic, we plan to see 800,000 little bosses across the country this year. And our goal is to see as many as need us. And we know, especially in the Medicaid community, there's a huge, massive need, almost 50% who don't get to see the doc every year. And, you know, we live in service to making sure we spend what we call heroes, virtuous cycle. And that cycle is just to get the company to a position where we can grow and see more little bosses in every neighborhood that needs us. So that's really what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I have a lot of jargon around the customer and the focus on customer. And I love how you've stacked it as well, which is all of us have a boss, right? And the ultimate boss is the customer.

I firmly believe that they vote with their pocketbook and or feet. They can just say, you're fired and go somewhere else. So my job is to serve that boss and make sure that they feel me, my support and my team's understanding of who they are in our lives. That's a big deal for us.

You mentioned this virtuous cycle. Is there anything more you'd want to say about that? That's an interesting jargon piece too. I kind of hear things in different companies. Really kind of these mantras and jargons that kind of drive the culture, right? And they become this shortcut for, like, these deeper meanings. So I haven't heard you a lot on the virtuous cycle in passing, but is that another jargon of hero?

It really is. Virtuous cycles have existed throughout. Throughout time and throughout place. What we looked at when we talked about Hero's business, frankly, is fairly simple. We say there are seven steps to success at Hero, and that's how we spend the virtuous cycle. And frankly, they start with, number one, we see a child. And what that means is we have the 40, 50 man call center. We have marketing, we have community outreach teams who go out and they find children and. And make sure that kids know that we're here to be their home for dental vision and orthodontics. So that's step one, and step two is we see that child. And that's what we mean when we say we see that child holistically. We try to be there for them for all their dental needs, all their vision needs, all their ortho, but plus just to treat them with respect. And then number three, we do all necessary treatment safely, which is crucial in our business. You know, we believe our clinical leadership board has led us to believe that hemispheric dentistry for these children is the best possible solution. And then cross care to make sure they get their vision appointments and make sure they get their ortho appointments as needed. Number four, we bill it correctly. That simple. Number five, we do that, we get paid. Number six, we pay the bills. And I teach my teams. That includes all of us. That includes the rent, that includes our salaries. That is everything we do. And then most importantly, number seven is the commitment that, you know, my group has made and the leadership group has made that we take everything else and we build more, we open up more practices, we affiliate practices, and we bring them together and we start again at number one, and we just spin that cycle. And two people live inside of that cycle at Hero. Number one is our teammates. Our commitment is that we do everything we can to promote from within. And in 2018, we always pointed that we had 750 teammates and we promoted over 300 of them internally that year. And then number two, the second person that lives inside that cycle, obviously is the boss. My first year, we saw about 475,000 visits, and this year we plan to see 800,000. So as we spend that cycle, we help more bosses, we help more teammates, and we just continue to be able to do more and more of what we do. So that's really what we mean when we talk through virtual.

It's awesome, Josh and I appreciate you being willing to share that. That's that almost that proprietary culture piece that really does make a difference. So thanks for sharing that secret, you know, with us. And I think it's one that if anyone, you know, wanted to steal something, that would be the thing worth stealing. Because if everybody operates off of that, we, we create a better industry.

I completely agree. And what's good for Hero, frankly, to your point of it is good for all of us. And on the vice versa of that, if we have one bad actor, one issue, it hurts all of us. So our goal is that everybody can adopt some form of virtuous cycle and understand that we are truly, all of us, to the benefit of the patients. And if we keep it there, this becomes fairly easy. The decisions aren't hard, but if it becomes about us or it becomes selfish, that's when it really becomes, you know, a different challenge. And we see, we see issues crop up. So definitely believe now you're in this,

you know, ramping up. You've got all these states, they're various levels. I'm guessing you have clinicians and others, you know, maybe hygienists or other team members who are also ramping back in. Tell me a little bit about how you're managing that because that hasn't been easy for a lot of people. Others, you know, it's been fine. But I think that there are challenges out there. What's the methodology and thought process that has kind of gone into that ramp up and how have you organized those priorities?

Yeah, so, you know, we reorganize priorities starting with number one, safe safety. That is the absolute number one priority. Our commitment was to do nothing, to put anyone in any additional harm. We're in a precarious time. Everyone knows that it's already, you know, uncertain enough without us adding to that. So we went back and we rewrote standard operating procedures across the board. Somewhere between 30 and 50 new SOPs had to be rolled out across the company, including new temperature check in processes, new PPE donning and doffing. And what we were able to do, we went and recorded new video training. So we had pediatric specialists doing the donning and doffing videos. We also did the new check in process and sent that out to all of our patients about a 90 second video so that they could see the care that's went into how much ppe. The whole design of how we're doing it, the social distancing inside the reception areas, the social distancing throughout the practices, this goes. Now. One of the unique challenges that Hero had is we're a high volume Medicaid practice. It's not unheard of for our Doctors to see 25 kids in a day and have multiple doctors running across the system at all times. So there were times where we may have upwards to 100 patients through a practice in an 8 to 10, 10 hour day. And in today's world that's just not that, just not viable. It doesn't make sense for us. So what we did is we split our teams into red and blue teams. So if you had a practice, for instance, who had previously two providers that worked the same hours the same day, Monday through Friday, call it 9 to 6, we split them into a red team and a blue team. And with our clinical leadership boards help, all of our teammates agreed to work 7 days a week, 10 hour shifts so that we could expand the service and get the volume close to pre Covid levels. Now there wasn't a way that we were able to keep the distancing in place and see as many patients, but we were able to spread it out and be able to see more patients through this red team, blue team. And the other idea was if one of those teams were to get infected or have an issue, we could take them offline, but it wouldn't shut down the whole practice and then we would have a white team in reserve that could stand up behind them. So we really split our clinicians up and then put teammates around them to be able to run these team systems to keep us clean and healthy as we, as we go through this next phase.

Now you said, just to clarify, you said that the teams are running 10 hours a day, seven days a week, but those individual members aren't working 70 hours. You're saying between the two teams?

That's right.

They're covering that much time for availability for patients.

That's right, that's right. Pre Covid, we were open 40 hours a week. But because we've had to spread everything out in Sundays, we're not open 10 hours, it's a five hour shift. So we have a red team and a blue team. And the red team may work say Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, so they get 35 hours and then the blue team comes on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and they get 30 hours. So all teammates maintain their 30 hour a week full time status. So, and we've kept, you know, one thing I'm really proud of my team that they were able to accomplish out of finance is we just, we just paid the healthcare premiums for every teammate through this time just to keep everybody whole and healthy that way. There was no, no one, you know, having to worry about losing their health care as we work through this. So that full time stuff keeps them also in that bucket, so they're good to go there. And we've kept everybody whole in that regard. So that's how we're staffing as we roll forward.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. And I appreciate everything you've shared and just being transparent on these. I mean, for those who are listening or watching, if you're listening to this and thinking, holy smokes, we didn't do that, or I don't have the capability to do that, I don't have the resources to do that. I think the big takeaway and maybe secret here is to just be innovative, to be working with the team. You know, Josh, as awesome as he is, didn't come up with all these ideas and roll them out on his own. Right. So the team was very involved. Probably they were strategizing on some of this. This would work, this wouldn't work, et cetera, and really drove that process. I don't know if you want to speak to any of that, Josh.

I definitely do. Emmett, you make an incredible point. My leadership team, again, we always say at Hero, our team can do things others can't. Now that's an internal thing. That's our own belief in ourselves. I hope that every one of you guys have that same part in your team and that same pride and you believe that same thing about your team. But Emmett, you said it. I have a team of just incredible talents who, you know, they came together and there's, you know, every Single morning at 9am we have a call and we strategize and that's all we do on that call. And we put out the latest information to all the teams. And that call, even when teams were on pause, had, you know, high levels of participation. And then every evening the war room team gets together at five and we do the same thing. We strategize and we start to layer in, you know, these lists of items that have to be done for us to get re ramping. So that was probably weeks three through five of the pause where I had, you know, just this incredible team that was knocking out all these new SOPs, rebuilding everything about Hero to get us in a place where we could come back. And frankly, none of this happens without that team. I mean, no, to your point, I didn't do most of it. They were the ones out, you know, really crushing, throwing ideas. And I'll tell you the next thing that was absolutely crucial for us. You know, I mentioned earlier that we do an every single night all teammate email that I send out to every teammate in hero all 1100. And then on Thursdays we do an all teammate town hall. Our town halls have had almost 800 participants each time. And then we run an FAQ doc that's live that every teammate can source that has a fine function and feature. And so if they have questions, they can go straight to the FAQs and punch them in. And then if they don't get the answer there, they come loaded to the town hall. And then we survey every teammate to get all the questions, pre and answer as many as we can. And at first, I'll tell you, the first town hall we spent two and a half hours answering questions. As you can imagine, just everything, you know, where are you getting in? 95, do you have all of it? By the third we had maybe five, six questions that you know, that, that hadn't been answered. And just that consistency and that level of communication. I get responses to my email every single night. And you know, there's two types of responses. One, thank you so much for just making sure that you're educating us. It takes away some of the fear and anxiety. You know, one of the things that my team came up with in this time was to get rid of fear. We have to over communicate. Leadership replaces fear. So we had to lead. You know, I said earlier, leaders lead and leadership can replace fear. So we communicate, communicate, communicate until people are frankly sick of it. You know, I send the email every day at first. Thousand people read the email. Emmett, a thousand people do not read my email every day anymore. Maybe 100 and that's perfectly fine. I don't mind because you know what I'll hear from folks is hey, I had a really tough day two days ago, but then I just went and read your email and I know you guys are still there, you're still grinding for us. You're still doing everything you can to keep us safe. And that connectivity has allowed us to innovate on the scale that we did. So how did I get my providers to work Sunday? I'll be honest, I asked them, hey guys, this is what we need. This is what the boss needs right now. I'm not, we're not going to be open Sundays forever. That's not our intention at all we need the hours to be able to make up the volume and the ball. We had 90,000 visits that we had missed during this pause period. We have to make up those visits, plus get the rest of the kids in who need us. So this was the team and the providers just being innovative and being dedicated to the mission of serving the boss and coming together and saying, yeah, we'll do it for the time being, whatever it takes. Josh, you tell us. Let's go get it. So that's really how that all came out.

No, it's awesome. And that's another secret that I think many of us have taken away is the over communication is just such a powerful tool. And, you know, in places where we felt like we were communicating well, maybe that served us well. In places that we weren't, we're like, wow, why weren't we just doing this more often? Right? Reaching out to that team? Because keeping them in the loop and over communicating seems to be serving everyone quite well. Let me hit you with a couple of those DSO questions that every single dentist would want to ask. So, number one is, do you do anything that forces the dentist to do any clinical outcomes? And how does. How's a dentist in your group? How are they protected, you know, from. How do they keep their autonomy? I think that's the best question, right? Or do they not. Do you go in there and you tell them what to do?

Oh, absolutely not. Well, yeah, let's start with that. We don't force any dentist to do anything ever. That's just, you know, we look at it very, very, very holistically. My expertise is not in dentistry. The dentist expertise is absolutely in dentistry. At hero, dentists help dentists become better dentists to take care of the boss. That's it. Now, you said, do we go in and make them do. How do they keep their autonomy? Frankly, you know, we look at dentists and we say, you know, to be crystal clear, your we have expectations for you. Expectation number one is that you know who the boss is, and it isn't me. It isn't Dr. Becky Meisner, who's our clinical director. You know, the boss is that patient, and you do what's best for every single boss every single time. The second thing that we make sure that we tell our clinicians is that over treatment and under treatment are both a problem. At hero, you're expected to do what that boss needs each and every time, and only you can tell us what that is. Your clinical judgment as we follow APD guidelines pretty, pretty strictly, and then Third, how do they keep their autonomy? Would be if they have issues or comments or concerns or questions or thoughts, tips, tricks, anything to make up us better. They are expected as leaders to speak up. What we don't abide is for folks to. We say team together, team apart. And what we mean by that is when we're all in a room, we give autonomy to everyone in that room. If you've been asked to be in the room, it's expected that you have the responsibility to step up, raise your hand and ask the question in the moment. Because as we all know, everybody tends to have a lot of the same questions. And if they don't get answered, we tell ourselves stories in our heads. It's just human nature. We start to make up stuff and it's not always super positive. So we say you have the right and the responsibility to bring up any issue you want. But once we leave the room, team together, we are still a team apart. And you have to assume positive intent. You can't walk away and then start talking at the water cooler that you are not sure and this and that. Because if you do, we will come directly and address it. Every single time we say all the coaching happens at Hero, every single bit of it. And if it's coaching I need, I expect that they're going to give it to me as well. So, you know, we look at it as though dentists are our partners. There is none of this happens without the clinical side. And I have great clinical dental leaders who do all the coaching and can handle all the questions. And we do the same. We expect that they are not, you know, not everyone loves everything we choose to do. Big surprise. But reality. And when they don't love it, I want to know why. I want to be able to give a clear, definitive answer. Because again, we might miss stuff. We do not live in this expectation that we know everything or have everything perfect. Quite the opposite, actually. So we need that community to bring everybody together to make sure that we're getting the best possible outcome for the one person that matters. Our boss. That's it.

That's awesome. Josh, thank you so much. And thank you for letting me ping you with these questions. I think what you shared is just super valuable. And, you know, we'll stream this into DSO Secrets. We've got it going in there now. And if people have additional questions, you know, I'd love to be able to ping you and post that there. But again, thank you for being generous in the process that you're using. And maybe we'll have you on again to answer any additional questions that come up. Any kind of parting thoughts or if somebody wants to learn a little bit more about hero, I'll let you plug that as well.

Sure, yeah. You know, interestingly enough, you know, the parting thoughts I have is that, you know, as a community, you know, you mentioned me sharing what we're doing, I'm willing to share at any time with anybody. You know, heropracticeservices.com is a great place. Reach out to our website and there are multiple avenues. You can reach out to me on LinkedIn, but multiple avenues through the website also to get in contact with us. As for if you, if there's any questions that need to be readdressed later, happy to come back on do whatever it needs to make sure we get this information out. But really, parting thoughts are back to what I said before. If we all understand that we're here in service of the boss, whomever that boss might be for whatever constituent dentist is watching. If we understand that and we start at that core, it's best that we all are sharing our practices each and every time. Because what's best for one of us is, you know, could be best for all of us and could keep us all safer. It could protect our community a lot better. And make sure that as we continue to re ramp and grow, we get dentists seen as essential healthcare providers that are able to, you know, help contribute in testing and vaccinations and in multiple other ways that they can use their skills the best and help their communities the most. I know in your case, and in my case, we're in some neighborhoods that no one else wants to go to, but we're there and we're supporting those kids each and every single day. And the more that my clinicians are able to do to care for those kids, the more help we're going to be able to give them to be able to live to their fullest potential. So that's really what we're about and what we're looking to make sure that everybody understands as we go forward.

I love it. I think that's a great way to end. Again, appreciate all the feedback. I'm sure people are walking away with some ideas on where they can take things to the next level. For any of you have additional questions for Josh, come on over to DSO Secrets Facebook page. Feel free to post them there. And until next time, keep smiling.

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