85: Straight Talk (Strategically Tackling Rough Situations and Tough Issues Effectively and Directly) with Jackie Brown, Director of HR, Community Dental Partners

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of DSO Secrets. I'm your fearless host, Emmett Scott, and today I'm with Jackie Brown, who is the HR director for Community Dental Partners. And Jackie, thank you so much for being on the show today and being on Facebook live with us and everything, taking time out of this busy time you've gone from with this Covid laying off and helping, furlough about 400 people, and then six weeks later bringing back 400 people. And so anyway, you kept a smile on your face and been willing to do this podcast. So thank you so much for being on the show.

Glad to be here.

All right, so we're going to get real specific today. We've gotten a lot of questions about something at Community Dental Partners that we have, which is called Straight Talk. And where this came out of originally is all of us, since we're developing people, are dealing with people management and people leadership. And there's different tools and tools and resources that we wish we had that we didn't have. And so we've developed those over time. And one of those tools that's come out of the HR department here is called Straight Talk. And I think from a problem set perspective, Jackie, what's the main issues that you would say Straight Talk really solves? Like, if I want to know whether I need to listen to the rest of this podcast, what kind of things would I be dealing with where this might be helpful?

So I would say, inevitably, communication is where most of the time, breakdown is going to happen. And when there's not communication happening, a lot of times people are going to fill that void with negativity. And so communication is key. So regardless of what's going on, communication is really where the rubber hits the road for me. And so with Straight Talk, it's basically dealing with situations, having conversations, being professional and addressing issues as they come along so that we're not letting things fester. There's nothing Worse than having gossip and negativity spreading through the culture of your organization. And a lot of times what people are saying is, what's going to affect that culture? Actions and words? You know, there's a lot in that. And so I think straight talk helps us dive into positive communication that helps push us forward and gets us into a collaborative mindset where we can work together.

So if you're a clinical leader or a business leader, and let's say you have team members where gossiping is happening and you want to say, well, just stop gossiping. Right. They might need a little bit more specifics. Straight Talk could be helpful there. If you have team members that ever have conflict with one another, Right. Different personalities, different perspectives on things. You know, let's say there was a global pandemic and people had different perspectives on things. Right. And they needed a healthy, professional way to have that communication and move on. Let's say that you hire people that occasionally bring a little drama in. Right. And you need a professional, consistent way to take that on. Those would all be things Straight Talk would handle. Is that a good process?

Definitely, yes.

All right, so basically, if you have humans in your organization, this could be helpful to you, right?

You're going to have humans and you're going to have some people who don't always get along or see eye to eye on things. And this is how we encourage them to deal with those situations. We want people to resolve issues by attacking the problem and not the person and having conversations centered around what my feelings are, your feelings, you know, and feelings are going to come into play. We do try to maintain professionalism and respect each other, but when you don't have the conversations is when the problems happen.

Yeah. Now, I will say, knowing community dental partners pretty well, that you have a value system in place, nine pillars of value. You have what we call pillar in a box. People are doing value activities and morning huddles. There's lots of good things going on. And even with that, there's still conflict, there's still communication that needs to happen to make sure that stories in people's heads don't blow up into something bigger and they're having more healthy communication. I will say we're a big proponent of crucial conversations, that book, and super helpful. But sometimes, you know, handing somebody a 200 page book, they're just not going to consume it. And you need something really specific that maybe that book, I think, addresses larger principles and is excellent for leaders. But with team members, they need kind of specific step by step and things that. That. Where they don't have to maybe connect the principle down to the activity, but really the activity. And here's the action and tactical.

You should do well, inevitably. I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead.

I was just gonna say inevitably, you're gonna have a situation where we need to have some feedback and we need to have some coaching. We value that here and we know that even with coworkers, that there's going to be someone who thinks, okay, well, maybe my feelings are hurt because of the way this was handled, or maybe I had an idea about something and the team didn't go with their idea, and I'm going to sit over here and fester on it. The reality is, when we have that open communication with each other where we can really talk about those things, it does help clear the air. The more that we have those conversations, the better we get at it and the better our relationships are with one another. Because as we learn to do those crucial conversations with one another where we're giving feedback and coaching, then the person does start to feel more comfortable. There's more of a trust there. Because I know that this is a safe place where I can come and have real conversations without you judging me or talking down to me.

Well, in the nine pillars and the values, there's personal honesty and responsibility, team loyalty and respect, individual compassion, development and learning. So straight talk definitely helps with all of those different pieces as well. You sent me over a PowerPoint, and for those who are listening this on the podcast, we'll post this to DSO Secrets Facebook page. And so you can go in and download it. Don't have to recreate it. You can utilize it within your company. We think it's a tool that's just helpful in people development, and so we want to share it out there. So I have it up right now. So, first of all, straight talk, we think of, yep, direct communication, but it's actually an acronym. Do you want to just kind of talk us through that?

I will. So the acronym stands for strategically, which is where the S S is strategically, then tackling rough situations and tough issues effectively and directly. So straight actually does stand, or the actual strategically tackling rough and tough issues effectively indirectly. So we do use that as we are having straight talk. Those are the key elements. So I love that we came up with this acronym way before I got here because it really does give value to what we're doing.

And I won't go through all pieces of the PowerPoint right now, but you basically take this on in an onboarding situation. And then just as needed, maybe where Straight Talk is not being utilized and kind of walking through with someone a reminder that this is a key principle that you utilize at Community Dental Partners.

Well, and we actually have done this with even our doctors where we have a once a month UDPG meeting where we're doing ultimate dentist professional group training, where each month they get CE credits and they may be having one month oral surgery, something, something. And then the next month we actually are having a session on Straight Talk because the reality is we have to be able to learn to speak to one another no matter what level of the organization that you're in. And sometimes it can be a little bit intimidating to go talk to the doctor or your boss. And so we do talk through how you have those conversations with each other, regardless of what level you're at.

Yeah, doctors have feelings too, right? I was on a UDPG call. It's like a mastermind for those who are kind of trying to imagine this. Each of the doctors are able to share best practices and get CE credits, et cetera, and talking through the Straight Talk. And a doctor raised his hand about not attending a morning huddle and said, I just don't really know how to give feedback without not destroying the team. But that was kind of the general feel. How do I give feedback in such a way that it's constructive and good heart, but just was missing a skill set. So things like this, if we can provide this to our team, we can raise the culture for them. Because I think most people have the intention to do the right thing. Definitely emotions and negative emotions can get in there, but if they have the right skill sets, they can resolve those. So I'm looking at one of your PowerPoint slides here and I love kind of the dichotomy here on each side, you know, that that thought we have of, well, it's just so much easier to talk to my friends at work or I just need to get this off my chest. So I'll let my friends and, you know, at work hear me out. But then on this other side, you've laid out, well, it may seem easier, but it results in nothing getting fixed. Right. And in fact, we'd probably argue it makes it worse.

It does. Because you're not really resolving the issue that you have the problem with. And inevitably, as a human being, we want to be seen and heard. And so a lot of times that's what they're doing when they're going to talk to their friends, they're venting, they want to be heard because they feel like they haven't been seen. And so when they're doing that though, that's really not fixing any of the problems. And then the person continues to go about their business, the one that they're upset with, and they don't even know anything's wrong. And then they keep doing whatever that thing is. And so, you know, until you really have that conversation, you're not going to resolve the problem and the problem is going to continue to happen. Happen.

Yeah. So I mean, here's some great benefits, right, that straight talk eliminates gossip, promotes professional and productive communication. Unresolved issues will now have a positive solution. Hostility won't be an active part in the, in the workplace. So just a great list here. Again, we'll post this now let's kind of talk through the details then of straight talk. You have kind of these five options that people have. And I love the five options. So you just, you know, when people say, okay, tell me about this straight talk system, I feel like they're building me up for something just so you know, it's super simple. But tactically it solves so many downstream problems if people just follow these five steps. So you want to just kind of walk us through these.

Yes. So even if you have someone come and I've had this situation this week where someone came and talked to me about a situation that they felt that their voice was not heard with their supervisor in a meeting. And so they were coming and kind of complaining to me about the situation. And I basically said, okay, well we're going to go back to our straight talk process. So have you had a one on one talk with the individual? Which of course would be their manager. So sometimes 1 and 2 are going to overlap, but the reality is you need to talk to the individual one on one before you come to the next level. And so if they haven't had that conversation with that individual, they really haven't given that individual the opportunity to even have the conversation. Fix the problem, hear them out. And sometimes just that simple conversation of saying, hey, can I talk to you for a minute about the meeting that we had yesterday? And of course the person should say, sure. And then you can get into, I felt that at the meeting, maybe I had some great ideas that weren't heard and maybe it's because they weren't given the why behind, you know, something. And maybe just having that simple conversation around. Oh, you had some really great examples. However, this is why we chose this other route. And it was because you didn't know about these other things in the background. And then the meeting's over. They're both happy. They both feel like, I love that you came and had the nerve to come and talk to me, that you had that respect for one another. The individual then feels like, okay, I feel like I've been hurt. That was silly of me. I got upset for nothing. But the reality is you talk to the individual. If you don't get anywhere with the individual, then you go to their manager. If you don't feel that that's gotten anywhere, you go to your manager asking for assistance. And as a manager, I am going to ask them, have you already done step one and two before I get involved? And then step four would be, you can always contact HR or call our 8555, tell us hotline. And then step five is, there's no step five. You go back to one through four. Because step five usually means I'm going and talking and gossiping. And so we aren't going to go to step five.

Love this. And I think what's critical if we kind of break these down one is that first one on one on one talk with the individual. You know, you brought up a great scenario. Sometimes the individual even comes to their supervisor or manager, which is great, but that manager can kind of become a third party in the gossip. And so even that manager, in your example, pushing back to, hey, have you done step one yet? Right now, clearly there's times where there's safety concerns, et cetera, and that's why there's more steps to move through here. Maybe you didn't get a good response. You know, we often give the example, if this is sexual harassment or something like that, you're not. You might go to the individual, but you might want to go upstream quite quickly. You might not feel safe. So all of that's very appropriate. And if the individual is your manager, then you're going to go up above that. And then as you mentioned, having a hotline and this hotline, you know, in our company goes right up to the compliance and legal team. They review all of these calls that come in. We actually have that for patients too, as well, to go above. But this allows someone to go right to the top, you know, and in our organization that compliance and legal can go above the CEO as well. So something like that, where people really know that they have full outlet if something goes bad. I think it's just good culture, good transparency and ensures that everybody feels safe. So this is, I mean, again, oh, cool. Straight talk. Tell me about you know, this 50 page book or whatever. And it really comes down to helping people understand these four steps and that there is no fifth step. It's amazing how many things that that solves. So anything else you'd want to add to that, Jackie?

Just want to say that when we go back to our pillars, you know, when you have an individual and we do talk to our employees about this is when you do have an individual who is going to come and have straight talk with you and they may say, can I have a straight talk conversation with you? The reality is sometimes it makes us uncomfortable. We don't like confrontation. But when we go back to our pillars, when you are the receiver of okay, someone wants to come and talk to me, having gratitude that they're willing to come and having compassion around the fact that they've got a problem and you're willing to listen. So we go back to those pillars at the same time, the person who's coming to that individual, we're all about teamwork. And so if you're not addressing the issues with that individual one on one and you're going to someone else and gossiping, then you're not following that teamwork that we want you to, we want you to walk the walk and talk the talk talk. And so going back to our pillars is so important in this whole thing. And then really when you do want to talk to somebody, even if it's a person who I need to go have that hard conversation with someone I work with, it is straight talk as well. And also having that respect for them and the compassion and starting it with, hey, how are you doing today? Because if they were rude to you when you came in, you know, something seemed off. But instead of going to them saying what is wrong with you? It's more like, hey, how are you today? And maybe you're having trouble getting this task done. Is there something that I can help you with rather than beating them down like where's my project that you had were supposed to give me three days ago? And then if there's some, maybe we're not on the same page. And you may say, hey, how are you today? And then the conversation then goes to I see that you're having or that you're taking some time with this. Is there something that I can help you with? Or maybe it is, I don't feel like we're on the same page. Feel like there's a lot of noise going on around what we're working on. And so I don't feel like we're on the same page, what can I do to help with this collaboration and maybe communicate in a better way? What expectations did I share with you that weren't clear that we can talk through? Because I want you to be successful.

Yeah, it's awesome. I think really what you're saying is straight talk is not a opportunity to go abuse someone. Right. Hey, I'm ready to have some straight talk with you. Right. You want to get ahead and still be empathetic. Right. So, okay, so we have a few questions that have come in. One is, do you use straight talk for all communication? So let's say someone's having a clinical issue or they have clinical questions and so forth. This isn't really for straight talk, Right. That straight talk is more of a one on one personal interaction issue. There's other lines of communication for business process type things. Is that right?

Yes, I would say if it's a clinical question that has to do with something specific to the clinical, yes. However, it has come up where there may be a chairside assistant who's dealing with a doctor and they feel like there's some questions around how they're handling something. And instead of the employee going to the other, you know, back office assistants and saying, I can't believe that Dr. So and so was acting like that today or that he was doing something, something, something, you know, clinically related, then that would then go back into straight talk where that person then needs to sit down with that doctor and say, hey, do you have a minute? Maybe I don't understand something. Help me understand.

So yeah, instead of going to the practice manager, right. It's really, you're following the principle of step number one is go to the individual. Now, I have seen Jackie, sometimes they've gone to like the practice manager and say, I need to do step one, I need to talk to this clinician, but I actually need a little bit of coaching on how to do that. Right. And so I found that to be very humbling and very appropriate when you're trying to do step one, but you just need some coaching to do it or hey, I know that this conversation needs to happen with this front desk person, but I want to do it right. So can you, you know, can you kind of coach me?

Totally. We never want anyone to ever feel like they're not supported in any manner, whether it's their work or the conversations that they're having. So, yes, we definitely want those conversations happening. If they need some help with coaching through whatever that conversation is going to sound like, we definitely Want some support there?

Okay. Are there any topics. Is another question that came in. Are there any topics that you advise go straight to hr? Like sexual harassment, which often comes up. So with that one, you just call the hotline or just go straight to the HR team.

And I'm going to say anytime I deal with an employee where a situation comes up, if it is a sexual harassment kind of situation, we are always, as an HR person trying to ask them, have you said no? Did you say something back to that individual? Did you let them know that these advances are unwarranted, unwanted? I don't feel comfortable because sometimes it can be an innocent on the person's part who was doing the talking and the individual took it the wrong way, which that happens sometimes. But yes, there are certain things that need to come straight to hr and definitely harassment is one of those where we are here to support.

Well, the nice thing is if you go straight to hr, you can get that coaching, right? So and those kind of things really protect the individual too because if they are going to have some kind of case or if HR is going to need to deal with something, there are specific items they need to make sure that they can protect that individual. So good. See, how do you move an entire team to a place where each member understands the principle? Number one is the best principle, that people really do want feedback. You know, how do you get the team to understand that and not be afraid of these conversations? Great question. This seems to be a big area where training is needed. You know, how do you, how do you approach this? You know, one thing I'd say about this, Jack, is I had a coach once who said, emmett, if people are getting you feedback, they're supporting you. Where you really need to get nervous is when people stop giving you feedback. Right? So I think understanding that culturally within the company that feedback is a positive personal development thing, but that, that takes a while, doesn't it, Jackie? Because feedback in other realms sometimes hasn't been positive personal development thing.

Right. And that goes back to our culture and our learning and development. We always believe in continually learning and we're not going to learn and grow if we're not accepting feedback. And it is hard sometimes to hear some feedback that you feel that was a little bit like, oh, maybe I didn't do something very well. But the reality is we really focus on supporting individuals where they are and where they want to be. And we always want to be growing. And so we do value that feedback. And sometimes it is hard to accept. It's hard to listen sometimes because you immediately get on that defense, which goes back to our humility. And unless you've got humility, it's hard. It's hard to receive feedback when you're not humble.

So you mentioned these a few times. I'm just going to pull them up here on the visual. But I think one of the things you're saying is straight talk needs to sit on top of your value system. So one way to have that communication is maybe to tie back their concerns around feedback to how they're protected in doing this because they're actually following the principles or when they give the feedback and when they receive it, they need to be following your value system. And no matter you know what values you chose, my guess is you can tie it back to one of your value system pieces. So here's R9 for those who can see it, for those who can't, it will be posted at DSO Secrets Facebook page. But whatever your values are, it's a good way to keep coming back to that foundation. But anything you'd add to that, Oh, I love it.

It's right in line. Every one of our conversations needs to center back to who we are. And that's basically our culture and our nine pillars.

So one of the things that's asked here is how do you train the team on how to communicate? I call that Straight Talk 2.0. We kind of mentioned that, that sometimes you're getting that coaching from the manager above. Sometimes you might be reading a book like Crucial Conversations. Is there anything else that you put out there that people can utilize to do a better job just in that one on one communication?

I think practice is what makes perfect and having conversations and setting each other and even just in department meetings or morning huddles. If you use Straight Talk conversations in practice forums, I think that's a good way to get better at doing it. We also need to, I mean, I think part of straight talk 2.0 is also going to be on that platform of listening and really taking in what they're saying. Because that's really, I think, where the hard part is. When you first get in there, start having a conversation that's really hard, but then to be the person who's accepting of it and really listening to what they're trying to say, I think sometimes we can do a better job of that. And so setting up some trainings and I think having them at our fingertips, if we're looking at implementing an LMS and having some of these Straight Talk modules and things that we put Employees through where we're pushing it out to them so that it becomes like, you know, you hope that you never have to have straight talk because everything is just butterflies and rainbows, but that's not reality. And so it goes back to when you're talking to your kids and you want them to feel like they're prepared before they get into the situation. And so I think if we can do some of those where we're pushing those out, where we're having morning huddles and using straight talk as some just, you know, doing some role play situations, which we do, and that's how we did it with our doctors, is we actually had them role play, which was so amazing and fun to listen to them. But really it's about doing. Doing is learning. And so I think we've got to be very purposeful in how we're pushing out our straight talk trainings, our modules, whatever those look like, as we start really building our lms and making sure that we have in there what our employees need that will take them to the next level.

That's awesome. I mean, one principle you mentioned is don't just make it a PowerPoint, make it an activity. Right. And make sure that there's role play. There is a book I'll put out there too. It's called the Coaching say less, ask more and change the way you lead forever. And he really lays out seven questions that are helpful in leadership. Because I think as you get into this, oftentimes you're trying to train and teach. Really you need to help them either do a role play and take action or listen to what the issue might be. Here's another one. When you are training the team to work through issues on their own, how do you set clear boundaries for when something is a non negotiable process versus an opportunity to think independently on systems and processes improvement. So now we're starting to get a little bit out of straight talk though it could be in there. Like Jackie, I just think the way you run the department's terrible and you're not kind to people, you know, whatever it might be, right. Or I don't like it that you make me work till 5 o' clock or whatever. Right. So straight talk, you know, when even though we're doing straight talk, I guess another way to simplify this question would be what happens when at the end of the day we don't agree. Right? Because straight talk doesn't say if you use this system, everyone will agree with your premises.

Right. The reality is the communication should Be transformational and not just transactional, because we want it to be transforming and not just a transactional kind of, you know, check the box. I had this conversation. But we want it to unlock potential for, you know, for what we can do and where we can go. And so I think, you know, as you start working through what's next, and the reality is setting expectations and clear expectations with your staff, with your employees, nobody. People want to have some autonomy and they want to be, you know, able to make some decisions. And so the more boxes you put around people, the worse it's going to be. And so, you know, when you give people a little more autonomy, but at least set some clear expectations, that helps with some of these issues you're going to have. You know, so if you say I want to, you know, instead of telling them they have to take lunch from 1 to 2 o', clock, you can say, feel free to take your lunch anytime between 11 and 3. You know, where they feel like they've got at least some kind of, you know, they've got some control over their life. But the reality is that you're going to have some straight talk conversations with people where they're not going to be happy with the outcome. But at the same time, if we go back to our pillars and we are transformational in the conversation, we help them see a clear picture of where we're going. You know, the reality is, is that you hope that eventually when they walk away, that they do start thinking, gosh, you know what, maybe she was right, or maybe that was true, or now I see where we're going. Now I see what, that, you know, what the impact is that has.

Well, I can tell you as a leader, to have individuals come and say, hey, I need to talk this through with you. You know, when you said this, I felt this way, or hey, I kind of feel this. I mean, there's no way, if you're really following our nine pillars, if you're really being just humble in general, whether the outcome stays the same, and ultimately you were right as far as the what needed to happen, you're still, if you're humble, taking away, okay, how can I communicate that better? Make sure everyone's heard. I mean, there's something to take out of that. And that's what makes this so powerful, is all this byproduct. If everyone's really into personal development, if you're more focused on figuring out the truth than you are protecting your ego, those kind of things make a tool like this just exponential within the company. If the culture sucks, then this is just another tool that people are beating themselves, you know, beating other people up with. Right? So, well, Jackie, thank you so much. Any parting words?

Parting words are. Communication is key. Communication, Communicate, communicate. You cannot do too much communication.

Well, Jackie, thank you so much for being on the show today. And if anyone has any further questions, Jackie is on our Facebook site at DSO Secrets, so feel free to post them under this podcast, this webcast, or come join us over on the DSO Secrets Facebook page. And until next time, keep smiling.

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