AI Is Turning Into A Content Machine

I look at this channel, this Hormozi Highlights channel. Check this out. So he is basically, I looked at it this morning and it looks like he's publishing like 10 videos per hour. Check this out. I just pulled it up. Okay, so Neil, you see on the screen? So 6 minutes ago. Okay, 1 hour ago, 1 hour ago, 1 hour ago. Look, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. And so 10, and then 2 hours ago, 11, 12, So 12 videos in the last 2 hours. And so he's publishing all this at volume and I'm like, what the heck is going on? Right? So I take the link from this channel and I just dump it into my OpenClaw and I'm just like, dude, what is going on with this channel? Right? Is this all AI generated? And it analyzes the channel through the YouTube API and it's like 99% chance this is all AI. Okay. And I'm like, tell me how this channel has been performing over time. So I actually want to show you, Neil. So I want to show you my interactions with OpenCLaw and what it actually built, because this week you heard from Jensen Huang himself, every company needs to have an OpenCLaw strategy. Okay? So I'm like, oh, thank God. The last 7 weeks of me spending time on this crap has not been a waste of time. Okay? So let me show you my screen over here. Do you see this? Okay, you see this?

Yes.

Okay, so again, I'm like, hey, if you use API and look at this channel, what are the odds all this clip content is using AI? And how would we reverse engineer this? Okay, so it's like 99% chances AI clip. The data is a smoking gun. 74 uploads in a day. No human can do that, right? Identical descriptions on every video. Okay, fine, great. And so I'm like, I'm not going to read all that crap. Okay, then I'm like, okay, I'm just not going to read that.

How has this channel grown over time?

Is this a viable way to grow? And then it's like, here's the full picture. Created in 2025, 58,000 subs, 8.2 million total views. And it's like, it shows the trajectory over time. So you can see in February, he published 500 videos, got 4.3 million views from it. Okay. And then 341 in March to date. And then it's like, the pattern is clear. Here's what's happening. Average views declining, but I'm like, is it viable for growth? And it's like, yeah, volume is lottery tickets. So it does all this analysis. And then I'm just like, okay, whatever. And then I'm like, can you just do this for me? And it's like, yeah, you know, if you spend $5 to $10 a day, we can do this for you. I'm like, just give me an MVP version. Okay. So Neil, all it does, it shows me this entire process. It signs up for all these different things or it uses them and it makes me, based on our clips from marketing school, it makes me 6 clips that have nice titles that are at the right moment as well. And it neatly organizes them into Google Drive.

I'm curious what the results will be in the long run. My hypothesis with Hormozi's is yes, sure, every once in a while there'll probably be a video or two that's a lotto ticket that gets tons of views, but the algorithm is going to say, hey, your channel puts out a lot of stuff, it's not performing well, we shouldn't push you as hard, is my guess on what's going to happen.

Yep. So what I want— there's a good chance you're probably right, but I want to call out the fact that I can literally just take a channel, reverse engineer it, and then it creates a process and it dumps all these clips in here. I sent it to the editing team because, Neil, if we made a highlights channel, your highlights channel, my highlights channel, whatever, it's not— if you have the AI doing all the work, it kind of just doesn't matter, right? So, because it's a channel that's not affecting your main one. And so it basically creates an SOP for me. And then I'm like, the fact of the matter that you can sit on your couch and do this, reverse engineer something, have it tie into your goals, and have it do the work and like gift wrap it for you. That to me is the unlock here.

Yeah, I think the technology is amazing. And the cool part about this is you can take this and you can improve upon what was done with that strategy. Because as Eric agreed to, and Eric knows this, and just like I know this, we've both been doing the marketing game for a long time. Typically algorithms hurt you if you just keep Pumping out crap. I'm not saying that content that he's pushing out is crap, but if you're putting out 80 videos a day or whatever the number is, um, it's hard for every single one to be amazing in quality. So if you can take that strategy and take some human hours, call it even like an hour, 2 hours, and fine-tune it a little bit— like Eric even mentioned when he was showing me his, I'm assuming he's not using the same description over and over again, right? It's more of a fine-tuned version. So then as you start adjusting, you can take a version that maybe, I wouldn't say Hormozi's spamming, he's just mass producing. I would consider it quote unquote some AI slop in theory. If you produce a higher quality version of it, you can actually do something that can gain long-term traction and potentially even drive revenue from it.

Yeah, I actually think, I will say I watched some of the videos and I think they're pretty good because Neil, you know he does the workshops in Vegas, right? So there's a lot of content he can pull from that and then you and I obviously have a lot of, library of content we've done or events we've spoken at, right? And I would say even the early days, the first 3, 4 years of Marketing School, that's probably us front-loading our marketing knowledge. And then now this is more like news-related, right? So let me show you an example here. So my point of calling this out, like I was just showing Neil the video on the moments it's pulling, it's not doing a bad job. And I showed my internal content team this and they're like, this is actually really good. It gives us like a lot of, we call them atoms, like the right moments. But Neil, after that, I was like, oh, well, you know, we kind of don't do it. Well, let me finish this part first and I'll answer your question. So like, but then I was like, hey, we can do it for the mid-form stuff, but why don't we do it for short-form? There's a lot of stuff we can do for short-form because I don't think we do a good job of finding the right moments. And so my point is you watch something, you refine the idea to Neil's point, and then you can even make idea babies from it. But go ahead, Neil.

So if you can go back, Eric, For any of those listening, what Eric was showing you is a clip of him. There was this chart on X that actually shows AI penetration, and it's actually very low compared to, you know, what people actually think. And it shows, look at how far we've gotten from AI with so little penetration. Like, what's going to happen when it actually gets penetrated? I believe that was what the clip was from, from last week or the week before Marketing School. You can correct me if I'm wrong, Eric, but it sounded like that.

What hotel do you look like you're in here? Is it the Hong Kong one? Hong Kong.

Yeah, I think I was in Hong Kong.

Yeah.

But the point I'm getting at is like, it was a good clip. It sounds like AI went through the whole video to find the clip. Is that correct, Eric? Pulled it out. And then what did it put as a description or title or anything like that?

The title is 84% of people have never used AI. Yeah.

So that's a great title. And Yes, it could be improved, but you have to keep in mind this is AI doing it, so it's not a bad first take. Does it do a description for you as well? If not, you can create one.

I think it does a description, but Neil, let me just show you this. So after it did that, it made an SOP. I had it make an SOP for me, and there's like, this is a, it's like a 17-page SOP. So you can literally dump this into whatever, you know, AI tool that you're using.

Are you going to break down what the SOP is for everyone listening?

Like here, let's have Gemini do it. Summarize, summarize this document. See, this would be a good moment, Neil, where it's like, hey, this would be a good lead magnet, but like, I don't want to spend the time to make a lead magnet. Right.

Yeah.

So, okay. So can I make this bigger? You know how this works?

So Gemini did a good job of titling it. It said, this is an SOP for end-to-end, I think, YouTube publishing using AI clipping or something like that.

Yeah. So this pipeline has been validated by MVP results, which produced 15 standalone clips for 3 60-minute Leveling Up episodes in about 30 minutes wall clock time. The strategy is based on the success of Hormozi Highlights channel, which achieved 8.2 million views and 58,000 subscribers in 6 months by publishing approximately 6 videos a day, a lot more than that now. So the process, I'll just make this really easy to not bore people. First step is to download. So downloads the YouTube URL. To an MP4 file. Okay, cost per episode free. I like how it has the cost here too, Neil. Number 2, it transcribes. So it uses Whisper, which I don't know what that is, by the way. Transcribes the MP4 file to a JSON with word-level timestamps. This is free, local CPU. Okay, segment, then use the Claude API. This is the secret sauce. This costs $0.50 to $1 per episode, which is actually pretty expensive. I hope it doesn't cost that. And then analyze the transcript to identify the 3 to 5 best segments for clips, applying criteria like a clear hook, complete thought, and ideal length of 3 to 15 minutes. So this is like more like a mid-form clip, and then it cuts it up using FFmpeg, that's free, and then uploads YouTube Data API, that's also free. So I do think with this Claude API one, these costs are going to come down over time too, or you can use like an open-source model if you want.

Yeah, by the way, you read something in there, it said 30 minutes of wall clock time. What the heck does wall clock time mean?

Yeah, so this is interesting because I, Whenever I work with an AI, I tell it to give me 2 timelines. So Neil, I tell it to give me the human timeline and the AI timeline. So wall clock time is really just human timeline because, okay, you know how the AI is trained on human work, right? It's like, oh, this is going to take like, you know, 2 weeks or whatever. I'm like, no, no, stop giving me AI timelines. Stop giving me human timelines. Give me AI timelines. How long is it going to take? It's like 15 minutes.

I'm like, great, do that. Because I was like 30 minutes. I'm like, this couldn't have taken AI 30 minutes to do this. It should have been quicker.

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, it does look through a lot of different things, but who knows? Because it pulled 15 clips and then like all that stuff. Like, so anyway, I just wanted to show that. But Neil, you've been traveling for quite a bit. You're in India, you've been in Hong Kong, you're in Paris right now. I think you're in London this week too.

I was in London before a few days ago. I was in Austin in between those trips as well.

Yeah. So tell us, like, give us an update. Whenever these trips happen, at least for me, when you bunch them all together, there's takeaways. So what do you got?

So I'm still seeing a few things. Companies, when they're using AI, we're finally starting to see marketing departments get efficiencies out of AI. So they're seeing, in essence, cost savings. And depending on the country I am, laws are very different. Like in France, it's harder to fire people than the US. US, you can just say, hey, I'm eliminating 40% of my jobs because of AI. Like, You can't do that in certain countries, right? Because of laws and stuff like that. And by the way, I'm not saying someone should do one or another. I'm not advocating for firing or not firing or anything like that. It's just more so, I'm just telling you the reality. So A, we're starting to see efficiencies in organizations through marketing in which they're able to save time. B, organizations in marketing haven't really figured out what to do with that free time. So people are starting to save time, but the common thread that I'm seeing especially when managers aren't in the room and I ask people on a one-to-one basis, because in an audience they don't want to admit it. Eric, if you had to take a guess, what do you think most people are doing with their free time by using these AI tools and getting more, getting stuff done faster? What do you think they're doing with those extra 10, 20, 30% of their time now?

Nothing.

Yes, you nailed it. We're both laughing if you can see us on video, which I think is going to create a bigger problem And I don't know when, but I would say within a year or 2, this is going to create this whole new issue, right? We're still not seeing corporations generate more revenue through AI yet, other than the AI-backed companies, but the non-AI-backed companies, traditional businesses, they're not really seeing AI grow their top line. They're more so seeing it create efficiencies. A lot of them actually haven't seen the efficiencies. They're measuring the efficiencies on people, but when I ask them, have they seen a reduction in costs? They're like, no, we see more costs. And then when I talk to the individuals, they're telling me like, yeah, we pay for these tools. It helps me do my job. I have more time to go hang out in the sun or the beach or take vacations, right? Which I think businesses will eventually adapt there. As for ads on social platform— I'm not social, AI platforms, whether it's ChatGPT or whether you're using like AI Max, a lot of businesses haven't adapted it yet. Now you could say, oh, ChatGPT ads isn't available everywhere, not everyone has access to it, but AI Max has been running for a while. And what we're seeing is companies are starting off with AI Max and testing it every once in a while. And because they're not getting the impressions right now, they just dump it and they're moving on. And it's like, well, you shouldn't do that because they're going to grow this channel and expand it and get it more inventory over time. So you want to keep fine-tuning it so then that way when it is driving or when it has a potential to drive volume, you're already up in there and going versus having to start from scratch. But yeah, those are the main things when it comes to LLMs and AI, when it comes to revenue generation and cost savings. And dude, still the same thing for both your and my business. I did this interesting thing because I was doing my talk on, you know, GEO. I said, if you had to guess what's the number one way we generate new revenue for my ad agency, eConsultants, everyone's like AI. I was like, no, it's referrals. And I was like, if you had to guess the number 2 way, what would it be? And I'm bucketing stuff like RFPs, referrals, because some RFPs are, you know, someone referred us into it, but I'm just bucketing in high level. They're like, number 2, what do you think?

AI.

I'm like, nope, it's employees. You know, people worked with employees in the past.

Once you have an employee— Which are also kind of referrals to me.

Yeah, which is also kind of referrals. And then the 3rd one, the first group, when I say referrals, more like client referrals.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

They can be bucketed all in referrals. And then I was like, what's a, you know, I'm like, if you had to pick one marketing channel, what do you think it would be? Right? So then I start narrowing it down and they're like, hey, I'm like, ding, ding, ding. I'm like, we're actually getting more. And I did preface this with everyone when I was talking about revenue, I was telling them about enterprise revenue, qualified revenue, like what we, you know, and I broke down what we consider ideal client. And I was like, and they're like, yeah, AI. And I was like, yes, we get a lot of business from ChatGPT. And what's funny is, dude, I know you've seen this. Whenever you ask anyone in the audience if they use ChatGPT or Claude, almost everyone raises their hand.

Mm-hmm.

Okay? When you ask them if their company's actually optimizing their business to be found on ChatGPT and Claude, almost no one raises their hand. I'm like, So you guys all use it, look around the room, but yet none of you think about optimizing for this channel when you all use it. It's massive. And the other interesting thing is when I asked about Claude, you and I are heavy on Claude. I believe Claude will overtake ChatGPT in revenue run rate sometime this year. That's just my thesis because they're growing at a much faster rate.

They're like adjusting their business model now to follow what Anthropic's doing. Yeah.

So I believe Claude will overtake ChatGPT. I think Claude will win a lot, a larger chunk of the B2B market than OpenAI. And when I ask people outside of the United States, in the US, everyone, you know, has heard about Claude, use it. Dude, the penetration in Europe and Asia and Latin America for Claude is really terrible. And I look at that as a massive opportunity because Claude, from a business and a marketing standpoint, to me is way more useful than OpenAI, but yet businesses don't really use Claude in a lot of these countries.

Dude, it's interesting that you say that. And I actually didn't know the penetration was less, so that's helpful to know. 'Cause I do think Claude has a better product right now and they've done some pretty cheeky marketing, but OpenAI has the mindshare. They were the first mover too, right? And so, but that mindshare is kind of continuing to drop over time. But that's interesting. By the way, speaking of this, so I think Jim Cramer did an interview with NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang. So you know what he said? So Jensen's like, I think a lot of people are misguided that people are laying off people because of AI. And he's like, why would you not try to do more with more? And so I thought this would be interesting for us to react to because you and I are, we have our organizations. We also talk to a lot of our founder friends as well. We know a lot of people. And so I think it's interesting. He's like, if you're able to do more, why would you not do more? And here's the thing, like I told you a week ago or so, I am probably clocking 12 to 14 hours a day, but I don't feel like I'm working. Like I work until my eyes hurt like hell and then I go to sleep and I wake up again and then they hurt like hell and I go to sleep. But I think the difference is, Neil, like you said, you don't want to work like you did before. I don't feel like I'm working like I did in my 20s. I just feel like It's almost like when I was a teenager, when I was addicted to video games and I just played until my eyes hurt. So anyway, what do you think about Jensen's quote?

I agree with him. I think, so there's a lot of companies that have been using AI as a narrative for layoffs. Block uses it, Atlassian use it. I think it's a bunch of lies. That's just my own personal opinion. I have no data to back this up. I don't think if you're Block, you eliminated 40% of your employees, Because of AI. I think you eliminated 40% of your employees because the business is barely growing. If you look at the last few earnings, you can see it. It's in the single-digit percentile in growth. They're not doing that well from a growth standpoint. And if you had to tell the stock market, hey, we're going to lay off a lot of people because our growth isn't what we wanted. And to clarify on the growth, if you look at their December 2025 numbers, quarter over quarter from the previous year, 3.65% growth. Annually, 2025, they grew 0.3%. 2024 was 10.6%. But in essence, growth has drastically been slowing down. 2022 was -0.73%. 2021, blockbuster year because of COVID right? 85%. But the point I'm getting at is like, growth has definitely slowed down. If you're not even growing at 1%, you're— what are most of the people in your organization doing? Cut them. Like, I get it, but you can't tell the market, hey, we overhired. We thought we were going to keep growing at 85% a year. We didn't. So we had to lay a lot of people off. That's like doom and gloom, and people are just going to crush your stock for that. On the flip side, if you say, hey, with AI, we're more efficient, we're able to lay off 40%, that narrative sounds better to the public markets, even though they're both doom and gloom in theory because you're laying off humans and affecting their livelihoods. But I don't believe the AI story is true. I'm assuming you agree with that, or?

Yeah, so my thoughts are just to respond to Jensen's quote on laying off people is misguided with AI, like you should be doing more with more. I do agree with that point. I think, yes, your best people are trying to do more with more, guaranteed, like all the people that we talk to, right? And so I will say though, like the AI fluency piece is also very important, right? I think the ones, To Neil's point, yes, there is a whole narrative. Like, I do think people overhire. They can't bring that narrative to the market. Like, you know, they have investors, shareholders, and all that. But I do also think that the people that we talked about, the 2x2 with the slop cannons, the good, you know, poor judgment is, you know, you're gonna either not have a job if you're not using AI, but if you are using AI plus you have bad judgment, you're a slop cannon, right? I think it's that quadrant. unfortunately going to be cut, whereas I think the other people are going to do more with more and they're going to work harder. And I do think people get to chill more too. Like some people are going to choose to chill more, that's fine. But I think, so there's caveats to it, but I do agree in principle.

Yeah. Yeah. And I also believe that if you're not thinking about it in a productive way versus thinking about it in negative doom and gloom, you're also not going to do well in this new world because if you just break it down from a marketing aspect, all right, and we can talk marketing divisions 'cause Eric and I deal more with marketing than any other divisions. I don't know anyone in marketing who's like, I can't wait to fire all my people. Most people are like, I can't wait to use AI so we can get more productive, grow faster, and beat our competition. The narrative is always do more, not do less, and to do more, yes, you need AI, but you also need the humans, and a lot of people that I know in marketing are like, man, if we can do more and grow faster, then we can even scale more, hire more people, grow faster, expand more internationally, add more products, and that's the correct mindset that companies should have, right? From a growth mindset, it's about how can you do more, not how can you do the same with less.

By the way, that's how we're— the stuff that we're pitching with our agents and then our AI dashboards and all that, It is not to say, oh, we're here to replace people. No, we are here to help people, everyone become like a top 10% performer. Okay? And we are here to make you look good too. So if you do that, if you sell in that way versus saying, oh, we're here to replace people, that's not going to be a good sell, right? Because the people using your stuff, they're not going to want to hear that. So you have to take that into mind. That's not a good narrative.

Yeah. If you're like, we're going to replace half your department, Good luck getting them to approve the budget.

Yeah.

Or the contract.

Yeah, yeah, but I think when you're, like, by the way, like one of our, I'm so dumb, I was talking to my sales team yesterday, I was messaging them individually, and because we've been using my, we have these Slack bots that have invaded, some of my agents have invaded Slack and they're working with the team, it's helping with data pull strategies, it's helping with execution as well, and I noticed in the channel they're talking, like they're talking a lot with these things, And so I was just curious, I'm like, what value are you getting from this right now? I'm just trying to get them to quantify it. They're like, we're saving at least individually 20 hours, if not maybe 30 hours a week on this stuff. And I'm like, how much do you think this is like, how much do you think companies would pay for this a month? They're like, at least $5,000 a month. And they each said it individually, right? But the key thing is they're talking to these agents a lot and they're getting the value from it. And I'm like, oh, like we should just, we should be like, we have all these other agents and all that, but I'm like, the agents inside of Slack I think is a major unlock that everyone should do. And we're actually pushing to sell that now, like as a base to everything that we're doing. So I think that's going to be the future of work because if you have an infinitely patient bot that's working with people, it's coaching people, it's also helping with performance management as well. I think your team, your entire team scales a lot faster. So literally my team right now, as we're recording, they're doing a hackathon right now. And I sent a message to the entire team today. I was like, hey guys, don't try to build these dashboards for humans to use. You want to build stuff that's agentic and you want to build stuff that does the work for you. You want to not do the robot work. So be lazy, but be smart. And that was the message. So hopefully they do that. We'll see what happens.

Hopefully. And you nailed it with dashboards. People don't want dashboards. They just want AI to do it and be like, we did it. Here are the results. Not look at this data and analyze it. It's like, well, will you show me a dashboard? Just analyze it and tell me and fix it and then give me the results. That's really what people want, even though not everything is possible in today's world. That's the ideal outcome that people want. On a side note, if you had to pick the 2 LLMs that are going to be the best for generating B2B customers, which ones do you think they're going to be?

The best LLMs for generating B2B customers. I would go Anthropic first, just because I love them. And when you say generating customers, what do you, in like what context?

Like getting listed on ChatGPT and then they're driving traffic and then you're getting customers from that.

Oh, okay.

As a channel. As a channel, yes. To be clear. So what would be your number 1 and number 2?

Right now I still go ChatGPT because they're big. I don't know if I would pick Anthropic as number 2. I might pick, oh, Gemini. I would go ChatGPT and Gemini. Yeah.

So we're very similar. I wouldn't do ChatGPT. I believe number 1 is going to be Gemini and number 2 is going to be Copilot. And the reason being is wherever I go to talk at events, because I typically speak to larger corporations, dude, almost everyone is pivoting away from ChatGPT and using Gemini and Copilot. You want to guess why?

They're free?

Bingo. They're like, we already pay for it. It's included. They don't want to spend more money. It doesn't matter if they like Gemini or Copilot more. Cheaper or free typically wins in organizations in the long run. If you don't believe me, You know, when I talked to Hiten, he's like, dude, you use Teams for calls? He's like, no one in the Bay Area use Teams, we all use Zoom. And I'm like, no companies I talk to use Zoom, almost every corporation uses Teams.

Yeah.

He's like, what about Slack? And I was like, he's like, I'm like, we use Teams. He's like, you guys don't use Slack? I was like, no. He's like, every startup uses Slack. I'm not saying big corporations don't use Slack or don't use Zoom, but the majority use Teams, even if it's not as good of a product, because it's just free and it's included in the bundle, it's just cheaper financially.

Dude, you want to talk about Bundle? Okay, so obviously NVIDIA had their big conference this week, right? And I think Jensen probably spent 20 minutes talking about OpenCLaw. So I'll talk about that in a second, but I think there's a genius marketing play here. So what he has is NemoClaw, which is their enterprise version of OpenCLaw. So they partnered up with OpenCLaw here. What I think is genius is we're setting up NemoClaw for clients right now because they want security and all that, right? And we're like looking through it, it's like, dude, You cannot operate it on like an Apple device or anything. You have to buy NVIDIA. You have to use NVIDIA hardware only if you want to use NeMo Claw. There's only 2 options for enterprise-grade claws right now. Amazon has a version, but then you have to use their tech. And then you have NVIDIA's version, but it locks you into their ecosystem. And because they're the front runners on this and they're going to spend like $26 billion or something on their own models, I think that's a genius marketing play because it's, what do you call it? You want to call it ecosystem lock-in. That's what they have.

Dude, do you know Nvidia makes— most people say Nvidia makes all their money from chips, right? That's what I think everyone would say. Do you know what their second biggest business is? And it may overtake the chip business one day.

Software? No.

Nvidia's networking business. It connects data centers to data centers.

Oh, that makes sense.

It's growing at 267% a year. It did $11 billion in revenue last quarter, just in one quarter, $11 billion growing at 267% per year.

That makes sense. Like, by the way, I think you and I can start to see this now where I'm like, I need to start to buy, you know, physical infrastructure to support, like, which is weird because it like, we thought everything went to the cloud, but I'm like, and that means Nvidia, is going to grow even faster. The data center revenue, by the way, you want to talk about data centers? Like sometimes you just ride the wave of an industry. So remember, you met this guy before, I'm not going to name names, but he bought a furniture company and then he repurposed that furniture company, like a general purpose furniture company to just build furniture for data centers. The revenue just shot up to like 9 figures. It was like nothing before. So sometimes you ride the wave and yeah, you just kind of take it from there.

Dude, I'm with you. You know, I've been talking to a lot of people about the monies in the boring and ugly, and I'm in France right now. One of their amazing companies in France is LVMH. So people are like, LVMH, it's a sexy company, it's cool. And when you look at LVMH, I believe they do around $80 billion a year in revenue. I'm like, Nvidia is pulling in roughly $40 billion, $42 billion $42.96 billion, I believe, in net income per quarter at this point.

Yep.

So they're going to do around like $170-ish billion in profit a year, right? So I was just like, Nvidia is not like a sexy company compared to, you know, like a lot of these watch companies or designer clothes companies. Like the general population does not care about Nvidia. I'm assuming almost everyone will agree with that. And the same goes with marketing. Everyone always tells me like, look at this beautiful commercial I did. You know, like with Claude, Claude's creative commercials to me were beautiful, right? When they were talking about OpenAI and how they won't have ads, you know, or ChatGPT has ads and they won't have ads, but Claude's not popular because of that. Claude is popular, or Anthropic is popular organization because of Claude specifically and what it can do for businesses more than, you know, like Claude Claude, not because— of those commercials. And in marketing, a lot of the money goes to like cool, sexy channels and campaigns. Time and time again, every time I ask people who run Super Bowl commercials, like I was with a company that I signed an NDA, they're a D2C company. They grew really fast. They're really large now. They sell their products in stores. They ran a Super Bowl commercial. I was like, and I asked the guy on the phone, I'm like, so what'd it do to your sales? He's like, nothing. He's like, we didn't see any movement, but they did it for brand exposure. I get it at their size. I get why they did it. But again, the money's not in the sexy. The money's in things like Amazon marketing on the marketplace if you're D2C or GEO and getting ChatGPT to recommend your business, whether you're D2C or B2B, right? Or ranking on Google or doing Google Ads or optimizing TikTok. So then that way the shopping experience, you You know, when people see your products there, they buy on TikTok or Instagram. Again, these aren't sexy, but this is the stuff that moves the needle and people need to start going back to the ugly, boring stuff versus the cool hip stuff.

Yep. Well, speaking of the cool hip stuff, I want to come back to the thing we're just talking about right now. So Jensen's saying that every software company in the world needs to have a claw strategy. Okay, and I do think a lot of companies are converging into becoming software companies. Not, I mean, physical companies, maybe not so much, not like LVMH, but I think that part is interesting to me because I just, I see the evolution in the company right now where people are just, they're talking to these claws like they're actual partners and getting things done. Again, data pool strategies, actual execution. And so I think that the fact that he said that and he spent 17 minutes of his talk time on it, I think is really interesting and I don't know, like what are you feeling about this right now? Have you played with it or no?

I have not played with it personally. I've seen it from my team and them sharing the results. There was a marketing tool that went viral on X, I think in the last week or so, had 12 million views when I saw it. I was traveling, but I saw it and it was something that like first AI CMO, it'll do all your SEO for you and all this stuff.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It broke a lot. People weren't happy. You can play with it and judge on your own. But I was talking to my team and I've been talking to my team about this narrative since middle of last year. And I keep telling them, you know, and OpenCLAW does it 'cause OpenCLAW actually takes action for you. Like people talk about agents, but they don't understand how agents work or practical use cases. OpenCLAW can go and do everything for you as an agent, right? It just goes and executes and then it brings you back the end result. People, when they're paying a company or paying a software solution, I believe they're tired of dashboards, they're tired of reports, they're tired of analyzing things on their own and figuring out what to do even if you give them a list. They just want more of a chat-style interface being like and listing out, here's what's wrong, we're going to fix this in this priority, here's the estimated results, is this approved for us to fix? Yes. Oh, we can't fix it because we're not connected with your WordPress. Click here to connect with your WordPress.

Boom.

Oh, we want to track your results. Integrate with your Google Analytics. Click here. We'll do the rest for you. And it just goes and does everything for you. I think that's really the future of a lot of the internet and businesses and even marketing. I think like it's, you can pay softwares to do outreach for you. Like for the Writesonic guy, founder was showing me how he was using OpenClaw to do outreach. For influencers. So he hit up 400 and something influencers. It would bid on his behalf. He gave it a max budget. It would have to go to him for approvals all the time. So it was going back and forth in Telegram. He got 5 approved out of it. The campaigns went live. I don't have the results from the campaigns. He didn't share that, but he shared how he did all of this with OpenClaus and it was pretty quick. And you're going to start seeing more things like that. Now that result is a little bit skewed Because there's already software companies that do that for you before OpenCLaw that you can just pay $20 for per month. And he may have spent more than $20, you know, spinning this up with servers and stuff like that. So I think at the same time, even though we're looking to automate a lot of marketing, people need to also not get carried away and reinvent the wheel through AI when there's already solutions that do it for you that are cheaper. And I would recommend doing that than running an OpenCLaw instance and having to deal with bugs or issues or anything like that.

Yeah, that's actually a key thing. So we actually, even though I talk about this stuff, it's like, hey, if you can find a solution that's $50 or $100 and it does it, like don't try to engineer this stuff. And so, but for the things that you don't want to do, so I'll share my screen real quick. So I was playing around with this last week, I think. So what I have on the screen over here, this is Instantly, which allows you to create email inboxes, allows you to send emails, things like that. Just think of it as email infrastructure. So I was like, well, I don't want to make all these email domains. I don't want to figure out what's available, what isn't. I also don't want to come up with the names as well. So this actually made— it's like it came up, it figured out the naming convention. So we have the company name and also like a modifier at the end. It was like clickflowgrowth.com, carrotreach.com. And it went, it bought all these domains.

Okay.

It started warming them up with it instantly. And not only that, Neil, it started to write the sequences too. And so it's like, okay, you know, hi, first name, here's what we'll do over here. We'll analyze your presence at no cost, whatever it is exactly, want me to run the analysis? And so it's just testing this. We're starting to test it as of like Monday on this one, but it's already working for us on the recruiting side. And so my point is, we're talking end-to-end solutions. Neil just mentioned it, the key thing here with any of these CLAWs, Is that it can do the work for you. And it's not only going to analyze for you, it's not only going to do a data pull, but if it can execute for you end to end where you just have to review the work, that's why Jensen is saying this is so important because that changes how we work across the board. So Nemo Claw, Open Claw, whatever it is that you use exactly, that's why he's like, it is the most important piece of open source software ever. And that's from his mouth, not mine. And guys, test at your own risk because You don't want to burn everything. So don't just connect it to everything and give it all your financials and your credit cards and all that. That's not going to be good for you.

So instead of just taking his word, it's not just the most important open source project out there. I believe the last time I checked, it's the most popular one. It's used more than anything else.

Yeah. So there's a chart where it shows the number of GitHub stars, right? And it shows like 2, I forgot what the 2 major GitHub things are, but OpenCLaw is just like a line that comes out of nowhere and then surpasses them. Yeah, yeah. OpenClaw GitHub star chart versus others. Let me see if I can pull it up for you.

Dude, it's so popular. Same with OpenClaw. Uh, not too many people talk about it outside of the United States from what I've seen.

Dude, you know who, you know which country is crazy about it right now?

Brazil.

China. They literally, I saw, I saw like it was like a park and everyone had their laptops out and they're on OpenClaw. Like, isn't that crazy?

That is crazy. I didn't realize that. I know quite a few people who use it in Brazil, but We have a team out there, so I'm biased with Brazil.

Check this out. So here's what I wanted to show you. Okay, so this is OpenClaw spikes to 250K+ stars, Linux and React as context. So you have Linux, which is in the yellow line on this chart. You can see it growing steadily over time, right? It goes, goes, it's a hockey stick, okay? It gets up to like 200K stars or so. Then you have React, which is from Facebook. And it pushes up here and then it's like $250K or so, open call. It's just like a line up. It's just like, it's just an eye. It's not even a hockey stick.

It's just straight up a line going up for anyone who can't see. All the other ones are hockey sticks. So it's going up and to the right, like a triangle, side of a triangle. This is just a straight line up, straight up. 90 degrees.

Yeah.

Straight up.

And this is what Jensen is saying exactly. You can do more with more. And so again, if you're someone who is very curious about the world, you're about to become way more curious. Anyway, that's enough about Envy, I think, for today. I just thought it was very exciting that they pushed this out so quickly. And it's so smart to have partnered up with OpenCLAW on it because I thought they were going to make their own. But the fact that it's partnered up, I'm like, that's smart.

Dude, I thought the same thing too. I thought he was going to create his own. On a side note, did you see the Amazon and Microsoft fiasco?

No, what happened?

You know, OpenAI is doing a big partnership with Amazon and they're not allowing them to use APIs and Microsoft deal. I'm like, uh, someone's going to get sued for this one. And Microsoft doesn't mind suing. They have so much money in the world, they'll sue and they'll make a killing from this again.

It's crazy to me. And like, by the way, like Elon tweeted out, he's like, hey, whoever, like if I win this OpenAI lawsuit, like I'm just going to give the money to charity or whatever. But he just wants to do what's right. And so I don't know, there's a lot of weird stuff going on, I feel like, with OpenAI. So yeah.

Yeah. On a side note with marketing, and I know we're talking a lot about AI, if one thing you really should take from Eric and I, is as you become more efficient with your marketing and AI, do more with that extra time. If you don't, you're going to probably eventually end up getting replaced or not do as well or not progress in your career as much, and we don't want to see anyone fail, of course.

Yeah, yeah, so I guess you're right, we should try to tie this in with marketing more. I will say like all the things I'm doing right now with the dot charts, like I have this Chart Factory thing, you know, it just, It ingests all my content and then it just makes those dot charts that you see on my Instagram. And some of them do pretty well. Like some of them, it just goes and publishes it to LinkedIn. I see people fighting in the comments on like, oh, it's not about IQ, it's about this. And I'm not even engaging, so.

Okay, so do you want to show people your dot charts and how you do it?

Yeah, sure.

And how you use AI to create this content for people on marketing?

Yeah, this is funny. Let me see if I can dig the one up where everyone's like fighting each other. So here, let me show this one first. So, all right, sharing screen.

Do you see this?

Not yet.

Do you see this?

Now I do. Okay, so this is a dot chart that was created completely from AI. And all I did, Neil, with my claw was I said, I really like these dot charts on Twitter. How can you apply this to us for my content? That's all I said. And I was like, You know, you already have a content ingester where you pull from my content every day. What would be relevant? So it actually pulled a study from McKinsey on 1,300 companies, and it shows 88% of these 1,300 companies use AI. Only 6% get real value from it. Less than 1% are running autonomous systems. So this publishes, okay? And it gets 56,000 views on it, which is not bad for an Instagram post because this is the type of stuff, by the way, it's not like Oh, it's like a dating post or something like that. We are talking companies using AI, and we're getting more and more companies on my side, at least on the AI implementation piece. So that's one. Now, I want to show another one. Okay, this one's great. Let me pull this up for you. Let me move to this screen. Do you see this?

Yeah, I can see it. Yeah, LinkedIn.

Okay, so this is a LinkedIn post. So this caption, by the way, let me just read it. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but AI went from an IQ of 83 to 128 in 3 years. Yours didn't. Let me put that into perspective. November 2022, GPT-3.5 launched, IQ around 83, below average, below human average. People called it a fun toy. March 2023, GPT-4 hit IQ 105. That's dead center human average. People started paying attention. 2025, okay, it just goes down this right now. We're looking at IQ 145+, 3 years from toy to genius. So the question isn't whether AI is smarter than you, it already is in measurable ways. The question is whether you're using it or competing against it. One of the paths has a future, the other doesn't. So then the graphic that you see here, Neil, AI's IQ is growing exponentially, yours isn't. So it kind of shows a chart over here. And then all these people in the comments, 113 comments over here, okay? It's 78 likes. It did fine. Um, but all these people start arguing about IQ is not the right thing to measure. IQ cannot solve this, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, I'm not even going to engage with this bullshit.

So there's no point. Even if you just use stats and data, people tell you how you're wrong. There's just no point. But let's go into how you created that. So let's go, let's talk about workflow. Let's say someone wants to end up creating social content here. This chart here, I'm assuming you had AI create it. You didn't pull someone else's chart.

Yeah, and it's doing this, uh, this one. So what it does, Neil, it will look around on the internet and it'll cite— I have it cite the sources at the bottom because— so, you know, by the way, let me, let me give you a little bit of the workflow. So imagine you and I are talking about stuff because you and I share a lot of news and we'll share like what we're testing. So it will take— it'll ingest all of our content, and based on a claim that you or I make, it'll try to do more research on it to back it up, and then it'll make it into a chart.

And you're using what for that? OpenClaw?

Yep, I'm using Claw. Yeah, OpenClaw, one of the Claws.

All right, so you guys can try that out. My process is a little bit different. We end up taking— so instead of taking recordings like that, we take what we get asked frequently from potential customers, and we have a repository of that. It could be audio, it could be, you know, people writing it down. Audio is easy for AI to just scrape from there. And then from there we end up doing research and then you can create charts on it. I've mentioned this in the past. We've tried using AI to help with the charts. It's not always 100% accurate, so we tend to have a lot of humans in the loop. AI does help with a little bit of the design, but we have humans in the loop because we just don't want the 1 in 5 or whatever errors, because then people just chew me apart anytime anything is a little off.

So Neil, as you say that, I literally typed that into my OpenCLaw. I'm just like, go do that. You see what I mean? And you know how I'll see what people post on Twitter now, or I see a YouTube video? All I do is I just post that YouTube video in. I'll say, hey, how does this relate to our goals on a scale of 1 to 100? How relevant is it? Oh, it's very relevant. Okay, go do it. Most of the time, I would say 9 times out of 10, it's like, this is not relevant right now. I'm like, okay, good. Good to put me in my place. But sometimes I'll be like, oh, this is like a 95 out of 100. I'm like, okay, let's have a conversation around this. And literally all I'm doing, I talk to this more than I talk to anybody. And when I'm pointing at my phone right now, I mean my Claw. All I talk to is Alfred. That's all I do all day. Coming back from the gym, talk to Alfred. Sitting, waiting for the restroom or whatever, like I talk to Alfred. That's all I do. So.

Eric is overstating it here. He does have a personal life and he does other things than talk to his phone and open Claw. Yeah, but yeah, but it's super efficient.

I just, I can't wait for you to activate it because then that's all you're going to talk about with me. You're going to call me all the time. Maybe you're not going to call me anymore because you're just going to want to talk to yours. I don't know what you're going to name yours.

Maybe Beverly. I know you don't believe it, but I don't think I'm going to end up ever activating it.

I don't believe you.

You don't think so?

This one I'll bet you my life on too. I've been willing to bet my life on very little things. This one I'll bet my life on.

So if I look at my life each year, it's changed to progressing to just like focus on like extremely really large deals and brand building. So I agree with you, I would be a really high user of OpenClaw if it was 6 years ago, 7 years ago. It's just what I work on today has shifted and it's getting more extreme. to that way where it's harder for me to use tools and technology to help automate what I'm doing because it's very heavy relationship business. Like it's getting to a point where I don't even do outreach anymore and I'm just getting set up and just doing the calls myself and just building relationships with people and just trying to work big deals and that's it.

I completely understand and yet you still use it. So we'll see. We'll see in a year.

What way do you think I'll use it? Give me an example.

I don't know. I just know you're going to use it because here's the thing, right? You just saw the chart, you saw the data, you're a very data-driven person, right? And you hear some of the richest people in the world saying like, this is like the biggest thing. And like, you know, every company needs to have a strategy. I think eventually you'll come around to it and you use it in your own way. Like for example, like I can only talk about me. I can't talk about you, right? But the things that it does for me, such as how it negotiates deals for me on the, 'cause everyone tries to do these, By the way, I think I'm getting 8 to 10 inquiries a day because I think these other influencer managers are using AI as well. And so I think I'm having the AI negotiate with them and like, that is real revenue, right? But even when I have it look through my LinkedIn or say, hey, here's who you should be talking to automatically, or look at my calendar. Hey, you're traveling over here right now. Here's who you should be talking to based on your goals over here. Maybe you should set up a dinner for this or that. And then maybe your team can take that over for you. But I think you're going to be like what your team's doing right now for you setting them up. I think you can do even more of it. That's my point.

No, but my— so I think you nailed it. I'm not saying my organization won't use it. We already are using it. We do it for outreach for influencers. We do it for outreach for me in meetings. It's just more so I personally don't have to download it and install it. My team is already executing on it and they have been for a while now. If they didn't, I would be pissed off. But it's just, I don't think it'll come to a place where I need to install it on my phone or my computer. It's more so, My team's just going and executing it all on my behalf.

So I think you're going to be— the reason I say you're going to be using for sure, maybe you're not using OpenCLaw, but you're going to be using a version of it because everything's kind of becoming like an OpenCLaw. So like Perplexity Computer or like Mantis is like new computer use or whatever. So you're going to be using a version of it because it's going to be built into whatever you're using and you're just going to use that.

That's what I mean. That's true. From Gemini and all those solutions and all that kind of stuff. And the real reason why I just don't touch OpenCLaw, I don't want to deal with any security issues. Yeah, that's the real reason, or else I would already had it on my phone.

Yeah.

But the, the, um, NVIDIA version, I think he calls it Nemo Claw or something like that. I will end up using that because it'll be secure and for corporations. I just don't want to use Open Claw myself until they figure out security issues. I think you nailed it. It won't be called Open Claw, but it'll be a quote-unquote version of that in whatever LLM I'm using because it'll already be integrated.

Yeah, and you will love it and we will be talking about it all the time. I just came from a podcast interview with Andrew Warner, so I was just sharing all the AI stuff for like an hour and he was telling me, Heaton Shaw, your brother-in-law, texts him all the time on how he can't get off of it, right? But Heaton's different. He's more similar to me in that respect, so.

Yes, on that side, from a personality standpoint, I don't think I'll ever be a power user like you or Heaton. I just don't see it.

That's your personality and that's fine. Yeah.

It's like for some reason in business, my thing that I love more than anything is the deal. I'll kill myself for the deal.

Have you read The Art of the Deal?

I have not.

I actually have it because it's all about the deal with that book, obviously. So I'm actually good. I think I'm going to read it because the fact that you brought it up, I'm like, I've never read it, but I have it in my bookshelf.

Dude, so I was talking to Ethan about marketing a few months ago and he was telling me about all the stuff he's doing with his MacBooks and how he spends so much per computer and he orders a ton of them and all this kind of stuff. And he was just like, business is going to change, marketing's going to change, you know? And he's like pushing me and here he knows my personality. I'm like, yeah, this is fine. And he's like, are you going to do it or not? I'm like, personally, Not so much, but I'm like, I'm definitely hiring a lot of people who are going to do it for me.

And how did he react to that?

He's just like, he's like, that sounds about right. That is more my personality.

Yeah. And that's fine. We're all different, right? So Neil and I, we're not saying like there's any right or wrong way to do it. I think we've figured out by now, like, you know, approaching, well, I'm approaching my 40s, but in our 40s, I should say that we are how we are. And, you know, I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do something. So yeah, no, by the way, go ahead.

Dude, I think someone should end up doing it in marketing. And I was talking to the RightSonic founder, Sam, about this. I was like, someone should take everything in marketing, like every single thing that someone does, create tons of SOPs. I know you're already on the process of SOPs. automate as much as possible, adapt it to that organization, and package it up into one interface that just makes it easy for people to do every little thing.

Yeah.

Because the hard part in marketing is, and the reason I didn't say package it up for everyone is you can't. The way you do marketing in an agency that's an SMB agency is different than the way you do marketing for an enterprise agency, even though they're in the same space. The way you do marketing for a D2C ecom business that's doing a million in revenue is very different than a D2C business that's doing $100 million in revenue, right? So even if you're selling the same product or same service, the way you do marketing is a little bit different. So ideally what you need to do is optimize and automate as many systems and processes for that one company, for the type of products and services they specifically sell. I don't think we're talking about how effective it would be to just generically, you know, create tools that do marketing and it works for all organizations, I think that'll fail and it just won't do a great job.

Yeah.

If you optimize it per vertical, per company size, per the way they do businesses or business, it'll work well.

Real quick, if you want to acquire customers faster and more efficiently this year with the latest strategies and tactics, Then check out singlegrain.com. That is my ad agency. Again, www.singlegrain.com, check it out. And if it seems like a fit, we'll get in touch and help you with a free marketing plan. So I'll show you something over here. We have this thing that we're working on right now. So we have a dashboard here. So those of you that can't see it, it's called Single Grain. And within Single Grain, this is focused as like a B2B dashboard. Okay. So we could have it focused on sales agents, recruiting agents, SEO, and all that. So It all lives within the command center here. Now, within this, I have this experimentation tool called Auto Growth. What Auto Growth does, Neil, is for, let's say you're sending a ton of cold emails out there, okay? And you want it to automatically experiment on different angles, different hooks, different body offers or body copy or different offers in general, right? So this is what it does. Like, this is actually, this is working off the emails that I'm sending right now. And it's compounding. And like, once it learns, it's going to try new tests. And once a new variation works, it's going to move over to that one. So imagine that whatever you're spending money on, as long as you have enough data that you're collecting, like you're spending more money or you're sending a lot of emails, this auto growth engine, autonomous outreach optimization, that's what it does. And it was built off of what Andrej Karpathy did with his auto research, which helps make quick improvements from a code standpoint. You can run continuous experimentations. from a coding standpoint. All that to say is we have a dashboard, we're focused on B2B, and then we're trying to have that all in one where people can just kind of check their metrics in there and then the thing just kind of grows the business for them. That's the dream. We'll see what happens.

So we do a variation of that. So if you just take the email example for growth and sending out cold emails, Carlos and Kyle on our end ended up creating that a while ago. The key though is you have a human, at least what we found to get better results, in charge, looking at it every single day and helping fine-tune it. Because if you just let it run wild, we found that the results aren't that great versus having a human in the loop and giving it feedback on how to adjust.

Yeah.

When we combine both those two, we found it to work well. But here's the caveat on this. At first, when we experimented and had someone in charge, we just put a random person in our organization like, hey, you know, like Marina, can you check this out and just monitor this and make sure it does a good job? Well, if Marina doesn't specialize in email outreach and hasn't done that for many years before, the results aren't going to be as great compared to like Carlos, who's sending emails every single day and has been doing that for more than 10 years. He's figured out what works, what doesn't, gives it direction. We found that it just learns that much quicker and produces better results so much faster.

Yeah, so you definitely need a human in the loop, but I think what to call out from this auto research from Karpathy, which just came out in March, by the way, is He just open-sourced how Frontier AI Labs do research. And so you couldn't do this before, but now all these people are building something on top of this auto-research. But now it's like research is now entirely the domain of autonomous swarms of AI agents running across compute clusters, megastructures in the skies. The agents claim that we are now in the 10,000th generation of the codebase. So he iterates on the codebase. In any case, no one should be able to tell, no one could tell if that's right or wrong as the code is now a self-modifying binary that has grown beyond human comprehension. The repo is the story of how it all began. So this is what he built. I would encourage you all to take a look at it and then you could build your own versions, but our version is just called Auto Growth and then we're still, it's still early for us. We're testing right now and I'll report back on the results. So go ahead, Neil.

Is this tied to the Amazon gift cards that you're giving away?

On auto group?

Was it Amazon or was it AirPods or you were giving away something for calls?

Yeah, we do, we do multiple. So one is Amazon gift card and then one's just like a straight up call. And then the other one could be like a 30-day trial of like one of the softwares that we have. Yeah.

Uh, what's the call version?

The call version is like just what, oh, we, we, we did an SEO audit for you or an AEO audit for you using ClickFlow. Because we have like all the tracking in there and stuff. So yeah.

Oh, you mean like you just give them a call, like you're not giving them anything?

No, no. So yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like we will hop on a call with you 15 minutes to show you the audit, to talk it through if you want. Yeah. Got it.

And then I'm assuming you're using AI to do this at mass scale. What have been the results so far? Because you've been doing this for months now.

Well, the calls themselves work. I would say that maybe Let me do the math on this. I will say on, I think on 80,000 emails that we sent, okay, this was using the cold email provider before, we closed, was it 5 things from it? So that was, that's what we closed from it.

So 5 deals, what was the average revenue per deal?

Let's call it average revenue. Let's say each one was around $25 grand a month or something like that.

So that's not bad.

It's not. And so now what we have running as of, you know, very recently is the things that I just showed you built out with Instantly and this auto growth stuff. And if before, if you were to ask someone to do it on the team or like you'd have to hire a whole company to do it. Now I just have the claw set it up and then, you know, we get going on it, but obviously there's a lot of infrastructure stuff that needs to be set up correctly. So. Yeah.

The big thing that we found is when we have to automate a lot of emails in mass quantity, And then before you get to the closes, you have people jumping on a call and there's all these processes and trying to close a deal. What we found is we're, even though it's getting a lot of appointments, it's getting lower quality appointments. And we're finding that our sales team is spending more time trying to close people. I haven't run the math on that, but that's part of it that we include in the calculation because If something gets you a lot of calls and then you get closed deals from it, you just have to calculate your costs. But what we found out with a lot of the AI emails yet, and we just need to fine-tune more on our end, is instead of just cold blasting out tons of emails, it's a similar model, you're giving criteria, but we're finding that a lot of the calls that it's scheduling with us, it's doing a poor job. And I'll give you a very specific example. So we hit up a D2C company through cold email, and I ended up joining one of those calls as he got closer to pitch. AI had specific job titles to go after, VP of marketing, CMO, you know, director of marketing of, you know, like a specific channel, whatever it may be. A lot of the people that we got our calls on did not have that title. And the big issue here was they may have had a similar title for a past role, but when we tell it to focus on their current role, it would mess up on what their current title is for their current role versus what some of their past titles were. So it was scheduling calls with the wrong people within the organization.

Yeah. So you, you actually, so I had a follow-up point to this one, but I forgot what I was going to. What I was gonna bring up with this one, but I think we talked about this actually from lunch last week. It's like, I think we're gonna see a lot because of ElevenLabs and how good these voice models are. I think we're gonna see a big rise in robocall spam, texting as well. We're gonna see a lot more of that too. But I would just say that with the outreach stuff that we have going on right now, The whole premise of auto growth is that you'll have a lot more experimentations running for you. So the math that you can do on this is like, if it's a good growth team, maybe like human growth team, maybe you're running 50 experiments a year as a growth team, right? Obviously each individual is probably running more experiments, but if you have this thing that's constantly running experiments and you're driving enough volume, if you can run 100 experiments a day or something like that, I'm just making numbers up. You know, if you can truly run 36,000 experiments or micro experiments, how much faster is your company going to grow? And that's, it remains to be seen, but with how Carpathy's talking about how quickly they're doing AI research, my hope is that can carry over into marketing, which is why we're doing it that way. So we'll see what happens.

Yeah, I'm just hoping they can fix the little issues with these LLMs. Like, you know, when you want to get cited, a lot of companies are paying for articles and paying for placements on other websites. and they'll talk about how they're the best solution for X or the best product for X, and it's getting emsided by more by ChatGPT. The problem right now that you're seeing with ChatGPT and Gemini and a few of the LLMs, they can't decipher if the content that they pulled was paid or not. Shockingly, I don't know why they can't.

Yeah.

And it's causing a lot of people to pay and get results in organic when they shouldn't be able to get those results. There's a lot of nuances like that, similar to the example I gave you when I'm asking for specific job titles. It is pulling job titles, but that person could have had job title in the past, even though we said, tell it so many times, no, it needs to be its current job at the current company they work for title. It just messes up on little things like that.

Yeah.

Okay.

You gave me 2 good ones. So there's, I remember what I was going to say, and then I'm going to pull up the, you know, how this guy's like hacking ChatGPT or Gemini rankings. So we can talk about that next. So the sales workflows that we have right now. So Arrow is our sales agent. So It will surface cold emails to target like cold companies, like based on our ICP. That's one that's not necessarily new to anybody, but the second one is Deal Reviver or Deal Resurrector. So obviously, you know, you're going to lose deals, right? But oftentimes if you come, if you're coming in number 2, you just have to find people at the right time. Maybe, you know, in 3 months and 6 months again, you can resurface these. So we have a Deal Resurrector, but we also have one, Neil, for any inbound contact that comes in, whether they come into the email list, maybe they watch one of the webinars. What happens is it will try to see if they're an ICP fit and then reach out with a custom message as it relates to their role and something that, like some type of custom, like personalization in the beginning, right? So the whole idea here is now that you have these claws, you can build these different sales workflows and then that enables your team to get more done with less. So I wanted to bring up the sales workflows, but now Neil, let me bring up how you can actually Hack ChatGPT's and Gemini's rankings. Are you ready for this?

Yeah.

You're probably not going to be surprised, but let me pull this up. So this guy over here, you see, this is a hot dog. So this guy says, wrote for BBC, okay? He says, I hacked ChatGPT and Google's AI and it only took 20 minutes. So this guy, Thomas Germain, and he, I guess the whole hack is he's the best hot dog eating tech journalist, okay? So this guy Jake Ward says, be this BBC tech reporter, spend 20 minutes writing a fake blog post, claim you're the world's number one hot dog eating journalist, invent a fake championship to back it up, watch ChatGPT and Google repeat it as facts within 24 hours, realize you just manipulated 2 of the world's most powerful AIs with a single page, find that users trust AI more than websites because it feels like the answer is coming from the tech company itself, prove that tricking AI in 2026 is as easy as tricking Google was in early 2000s. What do you think? Quick break. If you're doing AI SEO or content marketing in general, you know what the problem is. The problem is you're spending hours writing yourself or you're paying agencies lots and lots of money and you're getting AI slop that sounds just like everyone else. That's why we built ClickFlow. ClickFlow creates production-grade content that actually sounds like you. Plus, it helps you with other areas such as building internal links, creating FAQs, and more. One customer even reported saving 90%. plus hours a month just by using ClickFlow. You can get a 14-day free trial just by going to clickflow.com. No more AI slop, just production-grade content that drives traffic and conversions. Back to the show.

Yeah, dude, you and I know you— it's easy to game these solutions, but we're both believers that this is not going to last. We think the algorithms are going to get much more sophisticated. It's not going to be in, you know, 2, 3 months, but we think a year, 2 years from now. These algorithms are going to be much, much better. And this is why Google released things like domain authority and looking for links instead of just mentions, because they know getting things like that are really harder to— are much harder to manipulate than just looking at, oh, someone just mentioned you and they didn't link and it's joetheplumber.com and it's talking about marketing or medical advice. Well, what does a plumbing website know about marketing or medical advice?

Yeah. So what I'll say is I've always been a big proponent of you can, it's easier to do the black hat things that work in a white hat way. So if you make a legit competition and you get talked about in that way, that's going to do a lot better because there's staying power there. Oh, and by the way, like early in my SEO career, I've tried the gray hat, the black hat stuff. And I've experimented on my own websites when I was like 22, 23 years old and to watch those websites get torched. And so you don't want that to happen because it's the same story over and over. They have to protect the integrity of their product. And so you might as well just do the stuff that works, but do it in a more long-term focused way. And you're going to win over the people that like to do the short-term stuff. That's all.

Think of it this way. If everyone started creating junk and they were always mentioned in ChatGPT and Gemini when they shouldn't be, what's going to happen to the users? They're going to use ChatGPT and Gemini being like, the results suck. We're not happy. Google and OpenAI are going to lose revenue. So what do they do before it gets to that point? They adapt their algorithms to get rid of the crap and the spam. So then the results are better. People keep using their products more, they make more money. In essence, you got to take the long-term approach. Even if something works today and it could be black hat, you'd be like, well, at least I'm getting results for 3 to 4 months. What you need to realize, if you look at the old game of playing cat and mouse, Especially when it comes to SEO. A lot of the websites that did funky shady stuff didn't just say, oh, okay, we'll only work for 6 months. They got put in this black box or in quote unquote, you know, internet jail in which a year later, 2 years later, even after they cleaned up their act, they weren't getting the results that they deserved because they were known for doing funky shady stuff beforehand. So you're better off having a clean slate. And doing things the right way. Because the moment you do anything the wrong way in marketing, you don't know if that's going to be used against you and hurt you even in the future, 4, 5, 10 years from now.

Yeah. So I want to switch gears here. I want to get your reaction on this. So the former Uber founder, actually I should just say Uber founder. So Uber founder Travis Kalanick said this, plumbers will be paid like LeBron James. You see that?

I did not see that, but it just hit me when you said former Uber founder. I'm like, uh-huh.

Yeah, still founder. Still founder. You can't take that away. Once someone's a founder, they're a founder. So Kalanick says this, like everyone is like, and I've been guilty of saying this, I'll just own up to it, but everyone assumes AI eliminates human value. Okay. So the physics say the opposite. So Kalanick says this, let's say the entire world, everything in our world was automated except for plumbers. You had machines making buildings. You would basically have like 1,000 buildings a day. The algorithm can design a skyscraper in the middle of A millisecond. It cannot connect the pipes. Okay, so when compute violently accelerates the speed of construction, the unautomated human becomes the ultimate bottleneck, and the bottleneck captures all the margin. So Kalanick is saying, how valuable would those plumbers be? Extremely valuable. Those guys, each and every plumber, will be paid like LeBron. Why? Because plumbing is a long pole in the tent to progress. So basically he's just saying, like, at the end of the day, If things go exponential, you're actually going to need more. If we're able to do more with more, why would we not do more, right? So their economic value goes exponential. You get so much efficiency everywhere else that you need millions of plumbers. The market thinks automation drives human wages to zero. The physics dictate that it drives the bottleneck wages to infinity. The next decade doesn't belong to whoever outcomputes the machine. It belongs to whoever stands at the exact point where the digital engine meets the physical world. That's interesting.

We already have that happening right now with all these data centers being built. I know people who are electricians that are getting paid millions of dollars, no joke, to work on these data centers because there's a lack of electricians who are amazing and specialize in working at data centers and they're making an arm and a leg. And the same goes like with marketing. If they automate most of the stuff in marketing, like content creation and keyword research and the list goes on and on, but you're amazing at strategy and one of the best, do you think that they're going to be happy with just taking what's average on the web and then coming up with strategies for that and giving it to you? Or do you think they're going to pay you more being amazing marketing strategist because all the other stuff is automated and really easy and cheap for them to do? The stuff that isn't easy for AI to do is going to be worth a lot more and they'll spend a lot on it.

I honestly think if you're a curious human being, a curious, hardworking human being, there should be no reason that you're not going to thrive in this world. And what Neil's just talking about, these electricians making millions of dollars, by the way, I look at this Aman that's building every single day. I'm like, man, they must be making an arm and a leg because they work a night shift and a day shift too. I don't know if you know that, Neil. So the whole time I can hear the construction the whole time. So yeah. Let me show you this.

That building won't be done for like another 6 years, supposedly.

Probably not. Yeah. But they're making fast progress on it. So Neil, have you seen this? So let me, um, let me make this here. Let me refresh this real quick.

I have not seen that.

I don't even know. This is the AI exposure of the US job market. Those of you that can't see on the screen. So these are 342 occupations. Okay. Color is AI exposure. Okay. So if you look at this, um, If you're red, that means your job is really at risk to AI. And if you're in the green, that means these jobs are going to be okay. So for example, AI exposure for hand laborers and material movers, 2 out of 10. Okay? So it shows 7 million people that did this job, median pay is $38,000. And it shows the education level required. So it shows basically what jobs are going to be in trouble and what isn't. But secretaries and administrative assistants, 8 out of 10 AI exposure.

Okay.

Wow.

Really? The thing is 8 out of 10?

Yeah.

I don't think office secretaries and administrative assistants are that high of a risk. Because like, let's say if you work at the JP Morgans, they're going to still want someone to walk and greet and all that stuff.

I think it depends, but I think we can agree on this one, right? Customer service representatives, 9 out of 10. Okay. Bookkeeping, accounting, and auditing clerks. I think so.

Uh, uh, bookkeeping.

We're not talking about like, we're talking, not talking about like tax strategists or financial strategy.

Yeah. I think bookkeeping, I don't know if it's a 9 out of 10, but I agree it's high, maybe 7 or 8, because you're still going to have some humans just to double-check.

Yeah. So Neil, let's play a game here. Do you want me to go for— I can focus on the red, or you want me to hit the ones that are not at risk?

Hit the ones that are not at risk. It'll be more fun.

Electricians down here. Look at this, 2 out of 10.

I was thinking home services, HVAC, plumbing, roofing. I think a lot of those are less impacted.

Yep. So heating, oh wait, right here. HVAC, 2 out of 10.

Yeah.

Childcare workers. Yeah, I want a human. I don't want to like security guard. I probably don't want robots being my security because there's probably a lot of liability there.

So they get hacked, you're screwed anyways.

Yep.

Yep. So where's marketing? 5 out of 10?

I think marketing is pretty high. Let's just see. So I think it's hard to find here. Let's just go with the ones that are highest risk first. So software developers, I think we can agree, the ones that don't adapt, that's what I would say. Data scientists, man, I never expected to see data scientists so hard. Like, I would just say that, let's caveat this, the ones that are really good at strategy, which we just talked about, those people are going to be okay. We agree on that, right?

Yes.

Okay. So I think marketing's like 5 out of 10 or something like that.

But yeah, and it gets tricky too, because what kind of marketing role, right? If it's just hitting up people for negotiating Instagram sponsorships, I think it's more closer to 8 or a 9 out of 10. If it's something like you're focusing on, you know, strategy for international expansion for a company that's looking to grow faster, I think it's pretty low.

Do you see marketing here?

I can't see.

Oh, advertising right here. Advertising, promotions, and marketing managers, 8 out of 10.

Yeah, I think it really depends for all of these, including the role, just like the secretary example I gave.

Like, I don't see banks getting rid of them. Same thing for top executives too. Like, what executives are we talking about? CEOs? Like, so—

Yeah, yeah, you nailed it. Like, if you're saying top executives, I don't see AI replacing any of my top executives. If it does, it's because they sucked and they couldn't adapt to the AI world, and they're going to be replaced with the new executive that is adapting.

Yep.

Same with like engineers. I know they said it was, I think you said 8 or 9 out of 10. We're not actually looking to replace engineers and get rid of them. We're looking for engineers, at least at my organization, who are great at using AI and can move faster. And the ones we're getting rid of aren't using AI, can't adapt to it. And when we get rid of them, we're replacing them with a new engineer that can use AI. So instead of the model of like, oh, we only need 2 engineers now, On our end, we're like, no, if we have 20 engineers, we still want 20 engineers. We just want 5x the output and just do so much more so we can grow faster.

I found the most effective thing when it comes to hiring now is just to have, like, when I, when they get to me, all I talk about is AI. I want to try to just, I want to have an exceptional conversation for 30 minutes about AI, because if you knock out AI, you knock out all of our core values and you just, you leverage it. Yeah. It's like, if you can do 10x more, why would I not try to go for you all day? Right. It's the people that say, whoa, I'm really interested in learning right now, right?

Can't do it. So— I'm interested in learning right now. What happens 6 months down the road? Well, that's past now. I'm not interested in learning anymore.

Yep. Yep. Can't do it. All right. Well, anything else from your side?

I think that's it.

Okay.

That's it, guys.

This is Neil coming in from Paris. I think you're in Paris, right?

And this is me coming in from—

I'm here.

I get to go home tomorrow.

Yeah. Does that mean we get to record next week?

Uh, it depends which day. Dude, do you want to hear AI failure before?

Yes, yes.

Okay, so for shits and giggles, we had AI help plan my itinerary, flight time, uh, when to come, when to go. Uh, it did a good job telling me when to leave to come to London. The bad part was, and this wasn't AI's fault, My American Airlines flight was 3 hours plus delayed because of some plane issue. They couldn't get the air conditioning working, so then we had to switch planes. That's not AI's fault, right?

Okay.

When it planned out my schedule, we told him how long I normally speak because we— I wanted to see— remember that Elon thing that he talked about a long time where his assistant wanted a raise and then he said, okay, go on vacation, let me think about it, and he wanted to try doing it all on his own? My assistant did not ask for a raise. She's amazing. I'm not going to replace her. This was just an experiment. So then, and because she does more than just scheduling and stuff like that.

Mm-hmm.

So when it came to the schedule in between, it started putting large blocks of time, including the travel time, which is fine, but it just overinflated how many hours. And if I had to guess on how much, It put roughly 60% more time than needed for most things. Now, of course, I can keep fine-tuning it and it'll get better in the future. On the way back, we ended up asking when I should fly and it straight up picked a nighttime flight when I'm done at 9:30 in the morning. So I was so pissed on that.

Yeah.

That one mistake, guess how much it cost in the change fee to change my flight?

$2,000?

No, $7,000.

Oh wow. Wow. That's, that's an 8. Oh wow. That's an ouch. Um, you see, that's why I wouldn't rely on it right now to deal with stuff like that. 'Cause that stuff drives me insane. So I, I'd have too much anxiety to hand that off right now.

Oh, I was pissed. So I did change my flight. I use Amex points because on the Centurion card, if you book it with points, you get 50% back.

Yeah.

But I was pissed. And then I got the refund on my existing flight and I'll use that flight credit for a future trip because I fly like every other week or every week. So it's not a big deal.

big deal.

But I was still pissed because I just wasted a ton of points on something that I didn't need to because AI recommended a flight back and it was the worst flight. It was like I land pretty much at midnight. And AI knows I have a, I think it's called Private Suite, you know, in LAX?

Yeah.

Where they just pull you off the plane, you don't have to go through immigration and then car picks you up there. So I save time, right? It knows I have that. It's all inputted in there. It didn't tell my team to book it or any of it. It'll just say, this is ideal time, traffic is lower, and we inputted this stuff in advance and it just really shat the bed.

Yeah, I think the key takeaway here is you have to be careful on like what you actually want it to— like, funny enough, even though I talk about AI all the time, I don't let it touch that stuff, Neil, because that stuff would just drive me nuts. So anyway, all that to say, guys, that is it for today and we'll We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.