AppSumo Founder Noah Kagan on Becoming an Entrepreneur not a Wantrapreneur

Hi everyone, welcome to this week's edition of Growth Everywhere where we introduce entrepreneurs and interview them on personal growth and business growth as well. This week we have the founder of AppSumo, Noah Kagan. Noah, how are we doing today?

It's a slow day. It's hot, our AC is out, it's raining. Wow, that's a lot of whiny bitching in the beginning. I'm doing okay. I think that's the thing, it's like a lot of times people expect it's always great and you're working, but Most of my day is sitting on a desk grinding, so it's been an okay day. How about you?

Okay day over here. I mean, it's like 70 degrees in Santa Monica. Beach is right there. I guess my day's a little better. Cool. So Noah, what are we working on today?

What are we— okay, so—

What are you working on today? I'm sorry. No, we have—

so one, the thing I'm trying to do lately is have fun. So with AppSumo, the whole point of the company We have different— we have like 3 rules at AppSumo. Number 1 is fuck the haters. So that's just a random-ass rule. Number 2 is have fun every day. Just try to have fun. So not even just or try, but have fun with what we do. And that's really the only rules we have. And so what we're doing— I'm doing a food raiser on Wednesday where I'm basically finding my favorite companies in Austin and I'm just inviting them over to our office and then I It's a free thing for donations, but all the money will go to Austin Pets Alive. And so I spent some time today just getting like the vendors organized and people who are attending organized. Second thing I'm doing is reviewing some of our marketing activities. So we have a course, monthly1k.com, which is how I started successful businesses.

Mm-hmm.

And it's an interactive course with community and accountability that literally, like, if you're trying to start a business, you don't know shit, or maybe you're not in the Valley or in Santa Monica and you want help, And a lot of people are joining it. We have thousands of people joining it and using it so that they can actually build a successful business. So we're doing a lot of the marketing with that, emailing a lot of the people who have questions. I help everyone who's in the course. Then third, we have a new product coming out that we've been validating and seeing if people actually want to use it.

Got it.

I got like 10 customers for that yesterday.

Cool. So yeah, it sounds like the whole premise of AppSumo and what you're doing with your $1K course right now, it's all about helping other people grow their businesses. What kind of got you into doing this kind of stuff?

Well, I think what you said I fully agree with, and I think a lot of people know when they're being authentic and genuine and when they're not. A lot of people, including myself, at Sumo at one point last year, we said, we want to help a million entrepreneurs. And I knew, and we had a team of 16 people. There's only 4 of us now. And it was very funny because I knew in my heart it was bullshit. And I knew in my heart I didn't give a fuck to care to help a million entrepreneurs or not. And I don't really have a big drive. Like, I like helping people who want to help themselves.

Mm-hmm.

I really get a lot of satisfaction out of it. My favorite thing are like the customers in the Monthly1K.com who put in the work, put in the suffering, put in the sacrifices, and I can help them where I'm able to help them. And they come out and they're like, my life is so much better. And so that's really what we're trying to accomplish at AppSumo is like we like helping, we like promoting cool stuff that helps people kick ass. So we've been helping people start businesses and now we're starting to be thinking about how do we help people grow their businesses. A lot of it is releasing the tools that we use to grow our own.

Got it. And that actually sounds like the ideal customer profile might be this audience right here. They're looking to grow their businesses, they're looking to grow personally as well. So, you know, what would people get exactly out of your 1K course?

Yeah, I mean, I think I can talk about the course and I'm happy to. I think what's overall really interesting is like personal development is just as important as business development. And I think we can get so distracted or caught up with different pieces of our life where our personal life sucks, it's very hard to do well in business. And it goes vice versa. It's one of the things I've been really fascinated with because I've gone through a lot of depression. And a lot of very high highs like working at Facebook to low lows where I got fired by Facebook or my last company was making $150,000 a day and then it went down to $15,000 a day.

Mm-hmm.

So that's pretty dramatic to have happen. And the course basically came out, I think this is really interesting. I've learned so much. The thing that the course has been so amazing for me is I get to learn the psychology of people starting, failing, and trying to get a business going.

Successful people.

Successful people. With the course, you asked what's the gist of it, kind of, or how does it all work? What happened, and I think what everyone should recognize, is look at what people are coming and asking you for. Are they asking you for food? Are they asking you for relationship advice? Are they asking you to do a certain type of work? Or look at the things that you're naturally gravitating towards. Like, wow, I always eat tacos. That's me. I always eat tacos. Like just other things that either people are calling of you or you're just naturally doing. And so I kept getting people asking like, how do you do marketing? How do you start a business? And I don't, you know, I have self-consciousness. Like I don't, you know, I just do my own thing. I don't have some guru or some magical person. I just go hustle really hard. But I started noticing some patterns and people kept asking me. So I kind of put the course together to show people step by step what it takes and how do you go from I don't know shit to how do I find the idea, how do I validate it, which means how do I get people to actually pay me that they really want it. And I can tell you a funny story about that today. And then how do I grow it to $1,000 a month?

Mm-hmm.

The fascinating thing is after I built this and I put it together, I realized that we can tell people what to do, but it's like a book, right? Like, how many books do you have on your shelf that like you've never read? Or how many books that you've read that you haven't done shit with? And I realized that people need more than just a book they can put back on the shelf. And so we've added a lot of things where You can't go forward in the course without taking action. Like, we don't let you. And then the other thing is accountability and support. We had a— we brought in people to the office and I worked with them individually. And a week later I said, all right, how much further are you along? And all of them were like, you know, we didn't do shit.

Yeah.

I was like, we worked together, what the fuck? And what happens is that they need someone there with them like a coach. And so we provide accountability throughout the system. And the last key component has been the support of the community. So a lot of people don't have friends that are ambitious. They are alone by themselves. We take for granted, if you're from Silicon Valley, like we take for granted the amount of great people we have around. And so I originally was like, oh my God, I don't want a community of people who don't know shit helping others who don't know shit.

Yeah.

But it's been really fascinating that that's evolved to be one of the key components of this product where the help and support and potential customers buying from each other is one of the most valuable things for people in the course.

Cool. So you actually have a support group inside where people are kind of cheering each other on, that kind of thing?

Yeah, so the course is 3 pieces. It's the course itself, it's accountability where me and a girl named Ariel check in with people and actually make sure they're doing the things they do, and then it's the community which is other people that are taking the course. And a lot of people are getting validation like, hey, does anybody want to buy this? Or, hey, I don't know what to do here. Or, hey, here's just some positive motivation.

Mm-hmm.

So those are kind of the 3 things that have happened. I think other things that are really fascinating, if you want to keep going a little bit, is the psychology of the individuals. One of the things that people when starting their businesses, I was never expecting this, is failure and how afraid people are of starting. So we've added a lot of stuff where you have to go fail, like Coffee Challenge, which is you have to go get 10% off at Starbucks. You have to ask for a discount. And when people realize that failing is not so bad and getting rejected is not the end of the world, They find out that asking for money in their own business becomes a lot easier.

So everyone has to pass that test in order to get through this course?

Yes.

Part of the course.

And you know what, frankly, they can lie and cheat it, but that only hurts them.

Yeah. Got it. Okay, cool. And you talked a little bit about kind of the whole depression part. I know you getting fired from Facebook, you talked about the $150K to $15K daily drop. So can you tell the audience, I know you have a bunch of hacks and stuff, but I mean, How did you recover from depression? How do you keep yourself happy every day?

Yeah. You know what's funny? I said this to someone a while back and they're like, God, you're making all this money and you're a whiny bitch? I was like, I'm not as rich as you think. I've used different hacks and tactics to feel better about myself through different periods of time. Through going to therapy, through a lot of drinking. Which I still do, but now I try to do it more for fun. I think it evolves over time based on where you are in your life. The way I look at it is my friend Neville came up with it and I love it. It's a pyramid. It's a triangle. It's like your health, wealth, and your love. You basically look at your life, rate them 1 through 5. Health, wealth, and love, 1 through 5. 1 means you're shit. 5 means you're exactly where you are. That'll help you determine what you want to work on.

Right.

Let's say it's your health. It's like, all right, well, my health is very low. Because I know for me, I found that they're all connected. So if my health is bad, I generally will feel low about my work and then my personal life, my love life. And same with my love life. I was dating some girls that were good girls but kind of dragging on me. And when I finally let them go, I found out that I was better in my work, I was better in my love life, and I was better in my health. I would say just some things that have worked really well for me overall. I go to therapy once a week. That's been very helpful. And it's just someone completely unbiased that I can talk about anything with without kind of like judgment or expectations.

Mm-hmm.

I think one of the key things that I really try to explore is what do I really want? And a lot of times, especially with businesses, people are really fascinating. They're like, I want to do this so that I can get there. And I'm like, why don't you just go over there if that's what you really want? And they're afraid of it or just other excuses. And so I think people need to ask that in different aspects.

Mm-hmm.

And frankly, it's a slow process. It's like if your life is depressing, try to do one small thing today. Is it eating your favorite food today? Is it going for a jog? Generally, when you move and you get some blood pumping, you feel better about yourself. Every morning, I generally try to eat oatmeal or some breakfast because I know it makes me feel good about my day. It's like, oh, I love my oatmeal. And I think ultimately, it's like if you can surround yourself with good people as well, The people in this office, the people that are in my life right now, like if they're positive people doing things inspiring me, I find that to be really, really helpful.

Cool. And you know, you talked a little bit in one of your other interviews about, you know, when you wake up in the morning, there's something called GEBBY. Can you explain to the audience what that is exactly?

So when I was feeling depressed, I had a friend of mine and we evolved to this, but it's gratitude, exercise, breakfast, and you. The whole purpose of it was that every morning I woke up wanting to die. I think some of the things with that, it's not wanting to die, but I just didn't see why we're living. What am I going to get out of this day? I think when you're in that mode, it's pretty much impossible to be cured. My friends keep being like, oh my God, you have all these great things. I'm just like, I don't care about any of that.

Mm-hmm.

It's kind of like a forced thing where you say, what are you grateful for? Sometimes it would be hot water. Sometimes it would be for a nice thing. Sometimes it would be for a book. Exercise, what am I going to do for exercise today? What am I going to eat for breakfast? And what if for you, what am I going to do that would make me feel better today? Like, what's something I can do for myself? Anything. And I don't think there's a magical cure for depression. I think a lot of it is like removing things, adding things, and seeing what's overall changing your life for the better.

Mm-hmm.

Even GEBBI. So I did that every day for a year straight. And at some point, you know, sometimes things are hard and you've got to suffer through them to persevere because you realize the benefit's greater. But I think what I've realized with depression and feeling good and enjoying life and getting the most out of it is trying things. So like, if you don't know if Ghebbi's going to help you or not, do it for 2 weeks and then see how you feel after 2 weeks and then remove it. And so, you know, I was doing Ghebbi for a year and I realized like it's just become a burden on me versus adding to my life.

Mm-hmm.

Something I've seen in my mom where I love my mom, but she has these habits and rules and discipline that don't actually serve her and make her life better, but she's so used to doing it. And so I would encourage everyone to go reevaluate your rules. Like, what are the habits that you've always done because you've always done? Like, one of them today I realized was I hate subscription services. I hate cell phone subscription, I hate rent subscription, and I have always said that. I've always said I hated that shit. And then finally today I was like, I don't know if I really hate that anymore. I don't know.

I was like—

and then it was a good chance for me to actually think, what do I really want? Why does that actually bother me, or does it not?

And Earn 1K is a subscription model, right?

Well, Earn 1K is Ramit, my friend's course. Monthly1K.com, it's not subscription. We have $300 upfront or you can pay for 12 months. It's a payment plan.

Got it. Okay, cool. So let's talk a little bit about AppSumo more. You have this way of really being direct and candid with people. You were a little candid with me earlier today as well, and I really appreciate that. So, you know, when it comes to—

Do you actually appreciate that? It's like really seems like—

I really appreciate that. It might not seem like I'm listening, but trust me, I appreciate that like 1,000% because I'm really like that with the employees at Single Grain, and I just— sometimes I really wish someone could be like that with me. So yeah, no, I definitely appreciate that. But how do you— what's your process for being direct with employees? Do you go all in? Are you really candid? Are you mean to them? What do you do exactly?

I think I've evolved over time. I used to be much more of a dictator where I was very like, I want it my way or no way at all. And that's probably how my father was at times.

Possibly.

You know, it's funny. It's like our parents. We're like the rudest to the people that love us the most.

Yeah.

Like with my mom, she called me yesterday and I was like, Mom, I don't really want to talk to you now. But if some girl I like called me, I'd be like, oh, hey baby. And it's amazing because this woman is the most loyal to me. She'll always be there until She passes away.

Yeah.

And I think with— it's the same thing with the guys I work with. I'm super nice to them. I'm a little probably more direct or a little— I'm always direct, but I'm sensitive to our relationships.

So you're not like, this is shitty.

No, I'm not like— it's funny, at Facebook, Mark was like that. And I've read some stuff like Jeff Bezos and all these big-time CEOs are like that. I think you have to do it in your own authentic style. For me, it's like I want to get certain outcomes and whatever way keeps these guys happy that they want to be here and they're excited to be here. I wouldn't want to jeopardize that with— I don't think I'd want to come to work out of fear. I don't think that's a great way to motivate them. And so I try to treat them with respect. A lot of times we have really good dialogue where I disagree, they disagree, and I don't think I've ever pulled the, oh, I'm the CEO card. Who cares about that?

Yeah.

But it's more of like, all right, let's actually discuss what the best option, maybe it's hopefully with data so it's objective, but if not, let's try to rationalize it and make a decision with things. So I think what it comes down to is mutual respect. We actually had a guy quit a few weeks ago because I don't think I was doing a good job listening and respecting him, and I don't think I was ready for it. I think we needed to get someone else who I would respect in that position.

Got it. And when they become defensive with you, like, how do you react to that?

When the team— well, I think a lot of it is just understanding. So like right now, I was asking Anton to change the title of an email coming out tomorrow because the email said— the title is— where is it? 20 Hidden Gem Apps for Work Life. And I just think that's very unclear and very uninteresting for me to open as an email because gem app sounds like it's a certain app that I need to get, and then for work life, it's just not appealing.

Mm-hmm.

And so we may have a discussion and figure out, all right, well, what title? And, you know, I think this is one of the things that A good takeaway for some of your listeners. It's very easy for me to be like, Anton, come up with a new title. But I think what's actually more productive and beneficial is, you know, I think this is a little unclear. I was looking for something. You actually suggest something.

Mm-hmm.

You know, like, hey, it's a little unclear what this is for. You know, maybe something that's like 23 tools that'll help you kick ass at work. Okay, now I'm actually kind of interested. And so you at least, instead of just being negative, you actually try to be productive and move things forward. It happens especially like when you call people or when you complain to people or you want something, a lot of times we just want to complain instead of actually saying, all right, is this complaining moving forward to what I actually want?

Right. And I think that's actually a really good tip because once you kind of give them like a base to go off of, they could come up with new ideas too. So really good tip there. And I try to do that as much as I can over here. I want to talk a little bit about wantrepreneurs. So what exactly is a wantrepreneur and why are you trying to kill wantrepreneurship?

I'm trying to kill them because they fucking suck. I mean, it's just A lot of people that I still see today, a lot of them just want to be playing business. The thing is, a lot of running your own business sucks.

Yeah.

It's like people quit, your revenue is lower than it should be, you have to move offices. There's always something. There's a lot of good things about being an employee. You don't have to deal with it. 5 o'clock happens, it's over. The nice thing hopefully, like I get at AppSumo, is that I work at a company that I want to be at. Maybe not every day, but a lot of the time.

Mm-hmm.

And so a wantrepreneur, you know, gets cards. They fuck— this pisses me off a lot. They buy a landing page and buy Google Ads and they're like, oh, I've got 25 emails at 20% conversion. I've got a good business. I'm like— and, you know, it happened today. Some guy had people say they're very interested in his thing, and then when he asked them for money, they all said, go fuck yourself. And so wantrepreneurs, they're willing to do that, but I think sometimes they're not willing to work hard. They actually don't want to work hard. They want an easy fucking overnight fix. Tim from 4-Hour Workweek is a good buddy of mine. That guy works harder than anyone I know. But that's also what he's creating. But to get a 4-hour workweek, if that's what you really, really want, you'll have to work your ass off for a while. And some entrepreneurs aren't willing to do that. They're not willing to get rejected. That's why we have the Failure Olympics in monthly1k.com, because they go into rejections like cold calling. And you cold call because you're not getting rejected by someone that matters. You're getting rejected by a nobody. Or they, you know, they build the websites, they do everything but actually run a business and help people. And that's kind of the irony in being a wantrepreneur.

So it's more motion than action.

You know, they're taking action that— no, no, so that's the thing. They're actually taking action that makes them feel productive, but it's not moving them forward to actually creating a business that'll be self-sufficient and sustainable.

Right. Yeah, no, totally.

It's like, go be an employee somewhere.

Growth hacking, what's your take on— what's your whole take on that phrase? I know you've spoken at the conference before. What is this whole growth hackery thing and what do you think about it?

I think it's all stupid shit. I think people are— when I first started AppSumo, I hired an engineer to just do marketing optimization, and it's just a phrase. I think what most people are looking for is the same thing they're looking for with starting a business, is they want hacks to just get there. But what they really need is products and services that people actually want. Growth hacking is just looking at math with marketing. That's really what it's about. It's like, how do I engineer marketing with math and doing different tactics and stuff like that? But what's missing is if you have a shitty product, it doesn't fucking matter. Like, did Dropbox growth hack with their viral Twitter share thing? Not Twitter, their viral share thing. Yeah. Dropbox is fucking awesome. It would have grown regardless. Was it able to grow a lot faster because of that? Yes. And I think that's the fundamental thing I just have a beef with. Like marketing this course, do you know the best— for monthly1k.com, do you know my best way to market the courses?

What is it?

Can you guess the number one way?

Word of mouth.

Yes. If I can get people successful businesses, there's no gimmick or ad or content marketing inbound bullshit That would be better than a successful person telling their friends, I got success, I got results. And so if you focus back on making it a better product, which we spent a lot of time doing, like almost half a million dollars in almost a year, that's when you actually grow, you can growth hack a lot easier.

Got it, okay. And a little bit on the growth hackery, I know you did a course with Andrew Chen about how AppSumo got to 500K users. What's the path to— what do you need to do from 100 to 1,000 email subscribers?

Well, I'm doing that on AppSumo on Thursday. I'm going to show people how to get 100 email subscribers for free on any type of newsletter. So I'm just going to do it as an experiment. I think what most people do is they default to spending money, they default to things that people don't really want, and they're not really listening. They're not listening as much to hearing what customers are actually saying, like what words are they using? what are people really facing? You know, it's funny when a lot of times we're like, oh, that person's really busy. It's not that they're actually busy, there's just more important things. And that's one of the things that I always encourage people. It's like if you're trying to start a business, call it the totem pole. How do you become important enough? I kind of lost track of your question, but I think as we're moving with businesses and starting a newsletter, like go listen to people and create a newsletter that people would really want. And then once you know what you're solving, all you have to find out is who wants that and where are they? Once you know who your customer is and they do want something, finding where they are is a joke.

Got it. So it all starts with a good product. I mean, that's marketing 101.

Yeah, I mean, tactics and shit like that, it's like look on Twitter, message Facebook friends, go through your email inbox, comment on blogs. There's nothing magically brand new. I think some of the opportunities are like, how can you look at large platforms that aren't being abused basically? So like, that's why me and you were talking about YouTube marketing, because not a lot of people are doing YouTube marketing at large levels. Or Instagram, or Pinterest, like those are large, large communities that people haven't super gone viral through as like a parasite, like PayPal did on eBay, or a lot of apps did on Facebook, or Facebook did on spamming email addresses. No one talks about that, Facebook spam is the biggest spammer in the world.

Yep.

It's not spam though because people actually— most people actually wanted their emails. And so just figuring out what channels are not fully abused that you can actually take advantage of. I mean, I think some of the big stuff that everyone's noticing is mobile, but I don't think, even myself included, how do we start really taking advantage of growth through mobile?

That's a challenge I'm facing every day too. But yeah, I mean, I'm going to +1 that. Always looking for scalable channels that people aren't using. People back in the day, they used Plenty of Fish advertising, things like that. Now it's YouTube advertising. Lots of opportunity out there.

And even for mobile, I think the problem with people's mindset is they're still thinking of mobile apps instead of mobile traffic. And I'm noticing, like, I'm buying ads, I'm seeing a crap ton of mobile traffic available, and especially what people neglect is foreign countries. That's one of the things I always talk about. It's like, there's people speaking English in a lot of other places that's just much more affordable. And I just recently redesigned one of our pages to be mobile-friendly, and it's like, it's almost double the conversion on signups just because of that one change. You know, everyone's fucking on their phones, running around, Taking dumps on a plane, or not on a plane, but on the bus, wherever. And I think more marketers, if you're starting a business or growing, and I'm trying to get better at that. I'm almost old school at this point. I'm used to AOL chat rooms. But I think it's like, all right, how do I be aware of where things are transitioning?

Yep. Yep. No, I mean, mobile is the next thing, and there's a ton of figuring out to do there. Question for you. So, you know, 500 Startups investor David McClure said one thing. He said, you know, the shortage isn't like in designers or developers, it's actually in internet marketers. Do you agree with that statement?

I don't know. You know, the thing is I'm supposedly a decent marketer, but I only just do really good marketing or I market really well when it's products that I just really love. And so I don't think there's a shortage of anything. I think what each person has to authentically embrace what they're good at. If you're great at design, make something that's catered towards design. Same with development and same with business, right? Like, if you notice a lot of things— what do I do? Like, I have a big mouth.

Mm-hmm.

So what does AppSumo do? We promote cool stuff. We tell people about cool things we find. And so I think it's kind of recognizing where you're at. And so I do think having someone that has some experience like myself with marketing or yourself will assist, but I think each person can really do, you know, really embrace what their strengths are. You know, there's so much content online. Like, being a marketer is really just practicing. I think you can go and read books and buy a lot of stuff, and even, you know, sometimes you need help. Like, that's why Monthly 1K is helpful for a lot of people. But fundamentally, the most you're going to learn is through doing, right? Buying ads, trying blog posts, trying SEO, seeing that most of it's going to be shitty, and then hopefully one day some of it works. But I think what, you know, we encourage in the course, and I've seen most helpful, is you got to start small and really start with one customer. 'Cause when you find something that people really want, the marketing part is a joke. But to market something that no one wants, it's gonna be an uphill battle.

That's a quotable right there. I'm gonna write that down. Cool, so what about the entrepreneurs? A lot of people come up to me and they're like, hey, I'm gonna try to learn marketing, I'm gonna try to learn how to code, I'm gonna try to do design and all this and that. And they're trying to do all these different things. What do you tell these entrepreneurs?

Die. It's hot. We don't have AC in here. So look, I'm not mad at anybody. I don't really want entrepreneurs to fully die, but I think people really need to pick and choose their battles. When I meet an entrepreneur who is learning to code, it's a huge red flag.

Yeah.

A huge red flag. I'm like, so you're gonna be better than these guys that went to either good schools or have been coding since they're 14 and love Magic: The Gathering? No, they're a lot smarter than you. So what you should do is either figure out how you can give them really good back rubs, massages, or figure out how you can provide complimentary things to them. And that's the real key thing is like you need to pick and choose your battles. You can't be great at everything. I think as a business person, it's good to have a very low-level understanding of SQL, of some HTML, of some CSS, of some idea of how things are built like I've been doing. Like I started off as a programmer, but I sucked. So I was like, well, let me figure out what I am good at— marketing and some some product. And so picking and choosing where you're really gonna like have a specific valuable asset. I think that's gonna get crazy as the world becomes flatter and developers and people are more like cloud resources. So you're like, I just need a marketer, and there's just a cloud resource for marketing. Because frankly, you can just— if you can get ads and it just works, you might not even need a person in the future.

Yep, that's an idea right there for you entrepreneurs out there.

Well, it's kind of like what Clarity.fm is, or, you know, other services. It's like You know, there's cloud for, you know, servers and cloud and everything, but people and services are coming just as well. They have it for design now, but you'll see it in other forms and it'll be very fluid. And so I think what people have to realize is like, where do you be the most valuable? And a lot of times the valuable person is the architect.

Mm-hmm.

So how do you become wherever in the ecosystem that you're in or you're excited to be in, to be the person that's actually helping organizing or being a part that is just critical to the success instead of Let me try to learn to code because I'm too scared to actually start a business or figure out something that I can be good at.

There you go, guys. Really helpful insight there. Final question right here. What's something entrepreneurs can do in the next 24 hours to help grow their business or really get into the whole thick of entrepreneurship?

I mean, join monthly1k.com if you want to start a business. That's what's up. I mean, like, it's more like, you know, that's obviously selfish of me, but I also think it's something that I believe in and it's been helpful for a lot of people. I'd say, you know, the number one thing— here's the thing, everyone wants— this is why it always gets sad, because everyone wants a magical answer. Everyone wants some like secret cliché or some quote that'll inspire them, but obviously it comes internally. It's about you making your own decision. And what I would encourage anyone to do who's serious about a business is in the next 24 hours, see how you can get $1. Take some fucking action. Get off your ass. Stop watching videos. Stop reading another blog post. There's not a magical answer out there.

Yeah.

Take some action, anything, and do small, and just see if you can make $1. And I've seen major transitions when people start doing something. Even maybe if the point where you do the coffee challenge. Go do the coffee challenge. Take one small step to getting the life that you want or a career that you actually want instead of reading blogs and being on your computer necessarily all day.

Seriously, that's all it takes, just action. And I'm going to go do that. I mean, after this interview, I'm going to go to Starbucks and I'm actually going to go do that challenge. I might even go film it.

Are you really?

No, I'm seriously going to do it. There's no reason not to, right? Take action, it's so easy. But Noah, thanks so much for doing this.

One thing I'm curious for you is why are you taking so long to post the interviews?

Why am I taking so long to post the interviews?

Yeah, you're saying you're going to wait till November and you already have like 13 or 14 available.

Oh, because I actually need to like edit all of them, I need to write blog posts for all of them, so I'm actually doing that like one by one.

Okay, I was just curious, I was thinking like why isn't he taking action sooner?

Yep, there you go. But Noah, thanks so much for doing this and we hope to Talk to you again soon.

Bye.