Best Work Investment of the Year

All right guys, we didn't intend this for this to be live, but we're going to go live. It's Friday, 2 PM. Neil is recovering from a fever, 102 degrees, I think. So, but you know what? We're not going to disappoint you guys even though we're going into Christmas. Doesn't matter. The show must go on. Neil, I'll give you the option here because, you know, I took the liberty of putting some ideas in here. So what looks interesting to you to get started on here?

Best work investment of the year.

Best work investment of the year for me, Is peer groups. And what I mean by this is we've talked about groups such as YPO or EO, and I've talked about groups I'm in, like we call it the Tuluminati, where we have some of the mutual friends in that group that we've been meeting since 2018. What I mean specifically by this is I mean being very intentional about the peer groups that you're in. And so I've actually been cutting the peer groups I've been involved with this year. So earlier this year, I was in like a YPO SaaS group. Okay, I cut that. I was in a, let's just say I was in an in-person forum. I cut that as well. And the reason I cut those from my life, I would say you're almost like, we have like our own little peer group by doing this podcast in person with Noah, right?

Yeah.

But I've gotten a lot more intentional just trying to figure out, okay, what are we trying to get out of this? Okay. So for example, with you and me, sure, we get to record this podcast. It's fun. We have Noah there as well, but we get to eat after and we get to catch up on life. And that's something we get to do every week. And this is a forcing function for us. This podcast, I think in my mind, also keeps us sharp when it comes to new marketing stuff. So we're not going to fall behind because you and I have become a lot more operational within our businesses in different ways. Why do I keep the Illuminati group with Syed, Yaniv, these other people? Because we've been doing it since 2018 and all we care about is eating good food, doing sports activities, and helping each other with our businesses. We don't care to party. I don't think anybody in the group really drinks as well. And so, I'm good with that. Now, other groups, the reason why I left—

I'm just laughing because I know some of your other groups really love drinking.

Yeah. So, some other groups, and I have no issue with this, it's just not for me, right? But some issues, some of these other groups, I would say maybe their mission is more so to party. Or I would say some of these other groups, I could tell people weren't as bought in and it was like pulling teeth for me to plan out an agenda for a retreat and get people rallied around it. So, if I have to pull people, it feels like pulling teeth, or if it feels like maybe I'm not aligned with the values, maybe I don't want to— I've been through— you and I have kind of been through little phases of partying in maybe our 20s. That's okay. That's when it makes sense to cut. So, I would just say that a lot more intentional, a lot more deeper with the groups that I have right now. And I think a younger me would have said, hey, peer groups are amazing. But joining more so for quantity of groups versus quality is not a good bet. So that's what I would say. How about for you?

My best work investment, and I started doing this towards the end of Q3, early Q4, was a weekly, if not twice a week lunch meeting. So I get hit up for lunch meetings often. I generally always say no. And I'm not saying you should meet up with everyone because you have to evaluate your time. Your time is precious, it's worth money. And I now have a much more open mind to meeting people, even if they're not in my industry, even if they won't be a potential customer. I try to meet like-minded, smart individuals, even if they're in different spaces. I've learned a lot from them. I made a lot more connections. The networking's been great. And I would say for every 10 of those meetings, 2 to 3 result into some sort of benefit, even if I wasn't trying to get a benefit. So for example, the benefit could be, intros to potential customers, investor introductions, introductions to other things that make my life better. Like I met up with a guy named Mustafa a week ago and he's like, oh, you travel a lot, right? And I was like, yeah. He's like, you need to use this credit card. You're going to save a lot on your hotels and you'll actually get better hotels. I forgot what the name of the card was, but it's $1,000 a year. And he's like, it's much more beneficial than your Centurion card and you'll save a lot. And he has a Centurion card. So I was like, oh, this is cool. So I've put in investment for work, not necessarily cash-wise, but to me it is as equivalent to cash, is meeting people 1 to 2 times a week and new people every single week. And I found that to be very valuable. It's just I kind of have to force myself to.

You know, I screwed up on this. I had it on the wrong— all these things, I had it on the wrong line. So my actual best investment this year is in people. So, so what I mean by that is people that we've hired this year have been great. A lot have been there, done that. You have an amazing executive team. I think our leadership team has certainly gotten a lot stronger. And I think it's— we've been a lot more intentional about the people that we're bringing in. And the other thing that you have labeled here, best work investment of the year, we're not talking about work investment, I guess.

I thought you were talking about work investment. That was what my answer was.

I think these two kind of go hand in hand because if you look at the two that I have highlighted over here, best investment this year is people, and then best work investment of the year is micromanaging the talent bar. And so, um, you have Mike Kamo who handles the level of people that you, that you bring into the team. Um, for me, I think I, when it comes to having a high talent bar or a knack for talent, I think I'm pretty good at it. Um, and what I've noticed is me micromanaging the talent bar has yielded a lot better results than any other recruiter. I think certainly you want to have a recruiting team. You certainly want to have a people team. But I think I, my strong belief here, I don't know if you disagree with, I think you need at least one of the founders micromanaging the crap out of that talent bar. Because that's all you have at the end of the day. And even what you're talking about too, meeting people for lunch or me talking about peer groups, it all comes down to people. And I think younger version of us might've thought that we could just build software and then hide in a cave. But, uh, you know, the older we get, it's like the world goes around because of people.

Yes. And I would say my best investment every single year in business is actually people. I think people has always been number one, good people. really do make a huge difference. Bad people, oh my God, they bring on more bad people and then it snowballs and compounds. I'll give you a great example of this. We were doing a meeting with our software division. What's wrong, Emma?

You got hurt?

No. Okay, so I was in a— she doesn't want to do her homework. But I was in a meeting with some of the people in our software division And they were just like, the goals we set for next year aren't good goals. We don't think they're aggressive enough. If we look at the investments we're making, we should increase the goals that we've set because why would we aim for these mediocre goals? And my co-founder and I were on that call and we're like, and he said right away, he's like, that's music to Neil's ears. And I'm like, it is. Those are the type of people I love working with. Yeah.

I remember back in the day when I was at— I remember you would talk about working with certain people and then whenever you had someone on your team that's like, I'll figure it out, that's when you got really happy. And so those are the types any founder likes. It's the I'll figure it out people because there's different levels of people here. I'm not going to go through management 101, but you have people that sit there and maybe do nothing. That's the lowest level. Then you have people that will sit there and point out the problems. And then the higher tier above that is people who point out the problem but offer a solution. But even higher than that is people that have figured out and solved the problem and just told you, this is what happened. And so I guess it's no secret for us. I think the final thing we'll call out here is when you think about like a Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs once said that if you have an A-player engineer, they can do the work of not just 1, 5, 10 people, but we're talking about 100x. But when you hire B players, B players don't like hiring people that are smarter than them. And then what ends up happening is they hire C players and you have the bozo explosion. So that's why I think you gotta have, like, for you it's Mike, for me it's me, being super close to the talent bar. And it might irritate your team with you saying no to people at the very end, but you have to do it because you're protecting the castle. And the people are really the main moat that you have.

Yeah, and I think people have this misconception, People in not just marketing, but in business in general, have this misconception that I got this budget, this is what I want to spend for this role, I can't go above that. Sometimes you can get better people for less. Sometimes you'll get better people, but they'll cost more. And you can't just look at a budget as this is what someone in this role should get paid. It's also what value can they provide? Because if that person is 3, 4, 5x better than 3, 4 other people, you can also save money too. And we've seen that firsthand. We've seen it where when you pay the right people more, you don't need as many people and overall it's cheaper. And I've also seen it on the flip side. I was talking to Syed, more so texting Syed, and I was like, dude, this is what we're getting done on the dev side for WordPress. Is it good, bad? What's the rates, et cetera? And he was just like, he's like, you're overpaying by a lot. And then Intern, I'm like, man, things are moving really slow. And he was pretty much saying, I can get someone to move way faster for like a third of the price.

Yep. So anyway, all that to say, guys, I don't think we saw it this way in the beginning because Neil and I as marketers, we tend to think that marketing is everything. But again, guys, people, people is everything for everything across the board, which actually brings me to my next point. One thing I changed my mind on this year is And this actually goes into the coolest moment of this year for me as well. But what I changed my mind on this year is that relational wealth is way more valuable than monetary wealth. And I think I've always kind of felt like that, but I think nothing crystallized it more than at my mom's funeral. And you were there. And it wasn't until I actually started to think about it and put together her speech, I was like, yeah, all she did was chase wealth, but it was relational wealth. And so I think that will probably stick with me forever because I actually thought about it. And you look at people at the very end, like all the regrets of the dying. Nobody regrets, nobody's like, oh, I wish I would've worked more. A lot of the stuff they talk about ties in with relationships, ties in with people. And I'll kind of tie that in with coolest moment of a year too. I think it's the level of support I got when my mom passed. So you were there, you were at the funeral. Yaniv and Syed flew over. So Syed flew over from Florida, Yaniv flew over from Arizona, and it was unprompted. Like I didn't ask you, you're just like, hey, I'll be at the funeral. Right. And so I think that level of support I got, I think was really cool. And the amount of snacks I got was really cool. The amount of flowers I got was really annoying. So lesson for everyone too, if you're going to give someone something for funerals, don't give flowers. And guess what? Funny story. Who are the people that gave me the snacks? It was the women that sent snacks. And this is not saying these are women I'm dating or whatever. These are friends, right? So these are girlfriends that sent me— they're like, I was like, why didn't you guys send flowers? Every man sent flowers. They're like, Because we know how annoying it is to get a bunch of flowers and then you have to take care of all of them and you have to manage them, right? So they sent me really, really good snacks. So pro tip. Go ahead, Neil. What you changed your mind on this year?

What I changed my mind on this year? I go back and forth on this every single year, but some years I'll be like, I travel too much. I need to stay back more home with the family. The traveling, is it really worth it? And then I start ramping it back up and like, oh guys, we need to travel more. I would say I changed my mind on that a few times in 2025 and 2024. My goal in 2026 is just to travel a lot, not for fun, but for work, and try to do whatever it takes to make the business grow faster. Being on the road, I hate to say it, like when I look at a lot of the large clients we've Landed, like those Zempics of the world. It's—

Eli Lilly?

Uh, I don't know who those Zempics were, um, owned by, but whoever owns the Zempic.

No, Novo Nordisk.

Novo Nordisk, there you go. So they heard my speech at Web Summit in Rio a few years before, and then eventually I ended up getting hired.

Oh, that's a nice one.

And when we keep looking at the brands that hire us, A lot of them come from events and the events, it takes like on average what I'm hearing from like a, or let me rephrase, not generating business. I'm talking about the right type of business. So for us that would be enterprise RFPs. You know, you're trying to go for like the jugular, trying to get larger accounts, 7 figures, 8 figures. Sometimes they're 6 figures, but ideally you're looking for 7 to 8 figures to start off with. And you tend to mainly get those from RFPs. When we look at a lot of the RFPs, they come from relationships and speaking at events and networking and meeting people, but it takes like a year and a half to 2 years to get included into a lot of RFPs from when someone hears a speech. So it's a very long sales cycle, not to generate business, right? Because there's some people who hear us when I'm speaking and they hire us within 3, 6 months. I'm talking about getting RFPs for larger type accounts in the marketing world. Bigger deals tend to go through RFPs. It's just how it's done and it's a procurement-led process. It usually takes a while to get included in those, but people need to not only hear you from speaking at events, but learn from you. Emma, relax. Don't worry. Don't get frustrated, baby. It's okay if it doesn't work. I'll work on fixing your iPad.

Don't worry.

Okay, anyway, so, uh, this is what happens when kids start using technology to do their homework. Their school gives them an iPad, or we have to—

Are you fixing it right now? Are you fixing it right now?

Say hi, Emma.

Emma, what shirt are you wearing? It looks like a Sriracha shirt.

No. What is the search— or shirt? Common—

Common Ground.

Yeah. Who got Daddy sick? Was it you or William?

It was you, Emma.

William started it first.

Emma, you got him sick. It's cool.

And then William got you sick.

It's Colin Gallant's Old American Song.

It was for our performance today. Yeah.

We all learned a rainbow.

Red was kindergarteners and orange was first, and I'm orange.

I love it.

Cool.

I love it. Fix the iPad. I'll take it next. So, okay, as we continue with Emma on screen— Emma, you're going to be famous from this. You're going to be on YouTube. I would say the funny thing that Neil's talking about with what he changed his mind on is he always has a thing where he's a little schizophrenic. Emma, look at what schizophrenic means. So with his home, for example, he keeps going back and forth. Should I live in LA? Should I live in Vegas? Should I build this home over here? Should I sell this home over here? And then one year he's like, should I travel more? Should I travel less? Should I travel? So there's always one thing where he's schizophrenic on.

Yeah. But at least one thing, at least.

Always one thing at least, but it's usually one main thing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So I'll continue on while you, while you fix Emma's iPad here. All right. So I wanted to take a moment to tell you about my podcast co-host Neil's agency called NP Digital, and they work with a whole host of global companies or global organization. Also, Neil has SEO tools such as Ubersuggest and AnswerThePublic. All you have to do is go to npdigital.com/eric. to learn more, and we'll see you on the other side. So, um, I'll go with favorite AI tool of the year, and mine is Granola. Let me tell you why I like this Granola, uh, this Granola, Neil, because what I've noticed— okay, let's even use it in the context of relationships, okay? In the context of relationships. So let's say you and I, Neil, we're having a debate, okay? Um, when you have a Granola that's listening to the conversation, it could be an indifferent arbiter And it can just say where it thinks you're wrong or where it thinks I'm wrong. And for me and you, we're okay being wrong, right? But also when I have it sitting in like a leadership meeting and it also lists how each person thinks from a systems thinking standpoint, where it thinks each person is at and what each person needs to work on, it's correct and it's more objective. When you bring that up, there's not much emotions because Neil, if I were to give you feedback and sometimes you might disagree with it, then it's going to get emotional. But when you have an AI that's in there being the arbiter, you can't really blame the AI. You can't really get upset at it. And so for me, having Granola in there, and I can ask questions around all the transcripts that I've had, and I can also ask questions on things that have been high leverage or low leverage or things I shouldn't work on anymore. It's extremely powerful, and I haven't seen any other thing that's like it so far. So what about you? Favorite AI tool of the year?

Nano Banana.

You using Nano Banana?

For images, for ads. I get involved in my own ads.

You?

Yeah.

Wow.

I think it's been great. Um, it's way better than— I, I read something, it was at TechCrunch, I think it was TechCrunch that talked about how, um, OpenAI is releasing something that's way better than, uh, Nano Banana when it comes to images. I haven't seen it yet or used, uh, anything from OpenAI that beats it so far. But when we run ads, images help a lot. I know a lot of people do video-based ads. We also do image-based ads. You can still get a lot of traction from it, but Nano Banana has really helped us fine-tune images at scale that are quality. Most of the AI images for ads, and we've done this for a long time, most of them suck. And I'm assuming you agree with this. Nano Banana isn't perfect, A lot of failures, but we found that it produces better results and you can take it from there and modify it and then start throwing things up. But it helps us test faster because the quality, it meets a minimum bar, the minimum bar that you really need to start testing images.

Dude, I'll give you a second one because you mentioned Nano Banana. So I love that NotebookLM leverages Nano Banana now and the presentations you can make. So imagine you and I are putting together decks for our talks. Okay, so we obviously have our own design aesthetics, but to take a couple of YouTube videos that I watch that have interesting data, or I can take some long-form PDFs, and then I can have NotebookLM make a presentation from it, and then I can also edit that presentation using Manus. That's crazy because you and I, we leverage a lot of data from different sources. I know you pull from your own data sources too, but to be able to have, I think, even more dense, and when I say dense, more data-driven decks when you're doing talks. Like for example, Neil did a talk at HubSpot this year, And it was all decks. Sorry, it was all graphs throughout the presentation.

Yeah, charts.

Yeah, charts. And it did well. And I think we're going to see a lot more of that. We're going to see much better presentations because of Nano Banana and because of NotebookLM.

Yeah, I would agree with that. What I'm noticing on the presentation end, we've used some of the AI apps to help you make presentations. A lot of them are off and you still have to make a lot of tweaks. We haven't found one that just like is really good. And with the human intervention that you have to have to fix a lot of the issues, we still see it saving time, but not much, like 15, 20% for the type of presentations we create max. It's still better than nothing though.

Yep. Oh, we forgot to, I forgot to ask you this one. What's your coolest moment of the year?

I don't know if I have one cool moment. I can't even think of one cool moment.

You can come back. I had to think about this one, so you can, if it comes back, you can just Lock it in when you have it.

Yeah, I don't think I really have a cool moment, but just in general in life, I would say I'm content. I always want more, but overall I'm pretty satisfied. I could always feel like I do better, network more, close more deals, make more money, but just generally I'm content. The hard part, and Eric has experienced this as well, when you're an entrepreneur for a long time and you've done somewhat okay, A lot of things lose their pizzazz.

Yeah.

Right. So it's cuz like you get numb to a lot of stuff and you start seeing it over and over.

But I would say, I mean, how about it like a personal moment? Even it could be like Emma or William doing something and you doing something with it. Like what's the coolest moment? Cuz for example, like the, my mom passing sucks, but that was a cool moment when I, when everyone came together.

So this wouldn't be a cool moment, but I would say it was an enlightening moment for me. A buddy of mine, I was talking to him on the phone and my daughter busts out like a spray bottle and she starts spraying water on my keyboard and computer. I'm like, Emma, you can't do this. This is going to mess it up.

Yeah.

And he was on the phone and I wasn't yelling, but like I was a little irritated. And he said, you're so lucky. I'm like, why? He's like, I would kill to have a kid, you know, that sprays my computer or anything with water. He's like, you're blessed you have 2 kids. He's like, I wasn't able to have any kids.

Yeah, I'll tell you, this is a cool moment right here. I have a picture of you, Emma, and us doing a podcast here. See, this is a cool moment. That's what I mean by cool moment. Yeah.

Yeah. So for me, that was enlightening. I was like, it's perspective. Like, yeah, I'm blessed. Maybe I was a little irritated, but yeah, I'm actually quite lucky.

I have— yeah, save that picture. I just sent it to you. Now you're going to get poo-poo from Emma because I'm calling it out, but Okay guys, that's it for today. Uh, um, Neil came in sick. Thank you, Neil, for doing this sick, and we'll see you guys next week. Um, hopefully we'll be in person, so goodbye. Bye.