How Piggybacking on Big Brands Drives Sales + Is Liquid Death’s Hype Killing Its Brand? | Ep. 3029

Dude, did you end up seeing, uh, what was it called? Uh, Mario Kart and is it Dalit Vietnam?

No.

Dude, I have a YouTube clip of it. It's on the list somewhere. I don't know if I ended up putting it there. Where is it? Uh, there you go. Uh, how tying your product or service to something well-known is a great way to get more success. Click on the link and share your screen.

Yeah, let me share my screen. Okay, hold on. This is funny. Oh, I have seen this. Okay, I'm gonna share my screen and then, um, do I need the audio on or no audio?

You could or not, doesn't make a difference, but people can see.

Okay, I'm gonna share it. I'm gonna turn the audio on too, guys. Okay, here we go. Okay, so those that you—

You don't get hurt like Mario Kart.

Those of you that didn't see this, basically it's like a real-life Mario Kart where they're going down a track, um, and it looks, it looks fun, but it looks Pretty dangerous. So do you want to— this is in Vietnam, right?

This is in Vietnam. And what's interesting on this is it's like if you do something that's tied to something that's really popular, like Mario Kart, you can do well. And the reason I put this in here is yesterday I was eating dinner with my kids and my wife and kids made this chicken fajita wrap or something like that. And I was like— Made it?

Emma made it?

My kids and wife.

Yeah.

Emma, Michelle, And I was like, what the heck is this? And they're like, it's a Peppa Pig. Have you heard of Peppa Pig?

It's like a cartoon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a Peppa Pig dinner. And it comes 2 times a week to your house and you cook together. And I'm like, what does this have to do with Peppa Pig? It's just fajitas. But they tied it into something that kids love or family loves and it becomes popular. And then all of a sudden they're doing tons of revenue.

Do you know how many people got injured? Because this seems like a liability, man.

So if you scroll up, One of the first clips I saw, everyone was getting injured. Some of them are going off the side of the hill, and I'm like, uh, watch, share your screen, play that, it's hilarious. But I hope no one got hurt.

Oh my God, okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. All right, here we go, here we go.

Oh, oh, but yeah, they're just getting hurt.

Like, but the, the other thing too is when you— when people share these clips, they go viral. Because it's so funny.

Dude, the one on X that I saw, I think it was of people getting hurt, like 16 million views or something crazy like that.

By the way, okay, if we go back to Hormozi for a second. So the fact that he had the Guinness World Record and he had a $6,000 bundle, so there's people that are praising him on one side and there's people giving away the books or giving away the code, right? But then you also spawn a ton of haters too, because all of a sudden they're like, people, because he used to make in his videos like, I have nothing to sell you, right? And then someone put like, Alex Hormozi, I have nothing to sell you. And then Alex Hormozi, like a screenshot of a $6,000 bundle, like also Alex Hormozi, right? So for sure you're going to get hate and then you're going to get people praising you and then you're going to get people sharing the codes. And so it has a viral effect to it. And I think he was pretty thoughtful about that too. He kind of knew what he was going to get. But yeah, anyway, and this is the same thing too. It's exciting to share this. People like controversy. People like things that are People like sharing things that make them look good too in some way, shape, or form, right? Whether it's funny or something like that. So yeah. Yeah.

And you're always going to get hate. It doesn't matter what kind of business you're in. You could be OpenAI. He gets— Sam Altman gets hate from Elon Musk. Elon Musk gets hate from Sam Altman, and they'll throw jabs at each other on X or whatever platform, right? But this is just normal. This is what happens in business. And it doesn't matter what kind of marketing campaigns you're doing. Some people are going to love you, some people are going to hate you, but it actually causes your name and messaging to get out there even more.

Dude, speaking of brand, let's talk about brand for a second. We just talked about Mario Kart. Mario Kart, to me, Mario is a brand, right? But this is interesting because we can kind of— I can weave this in with Nintendo too. So do you know what type of company Nintendo was when it first started?

No, but I know they ended up owning the Seattle Mariners. They bought a baseball team.

Okay, but we're talking about the beginning. So the beginning deal was they— They were a trading card company. So they were a long time ago, like sure, they started in gaming, but a very long time ago they were a trading card company and they just continued to change over time, right? And they evolved their brand. Okay. Now Liquid Death, which I believe has sold $500 million or something like that. So Liquid Death, just so everyone doesn't know, for people that don't know, it's like an edgy water brand. It's like a can of water basically, right? And so Nick Shackelford—

Or let's go a little bit more in depth. It's a can of water. Eric is saying, but they have some cool graphics like, like, oh, like Liquid Death. Like, you know, I don't know what they're trying to messaging, they're trying to convey. I've never drank a can, but it tastes just like any other water. The only difference is the marketing on how it's like cool or crazy. You know, it's Eric showing the image right here as well of it.

Yeah, so it's basically a, um, character. The head is Liquid Death and it's like a buff character with an axe. And then the, the, I guess The chest is like eyeballs, but it's like different marketing, right? And so, here's the thing to what Neil said. Liquid Death, the idea came in 2009, came from a Warped Tour, okay? 2017, trademark filed. 2019, they came out as the anti-water. And then 2020, they came out as sparkling water, okay? So, that's fine, okay? It's still water, right? 2021, flavored water, okay? 2022, hydration package. It's like, okay, well, they're kind of expanding out a little more. And in 2023, energy drinks, right? And so he's— Nick Shackelford's argument is this is textbook dilution because when they're doing $100 million, there's like, we need to expand our TAM, right? And then $500 million, let's hire that CPG exec from Pepsi. So meanwhile, his argument is Red Bull, same product for 40 years, same message, same positioning, $11 billion in revenue. So Liquid Death had authenticity in a sea of sameness. They traded it for shelf space, which is also interesting because, you know, Yesterday, we have a mutual friend, Kat Cole, CEO of AG1. So they just came out with like, you know, they do like vitamin packets, right? Basically, and you can put in your water, it's like green juice-ish, right? But they just came out with like a sleep packet or a sleep powder yesterday too. And so what is your take on this overall? All right, so I wanted to take a moment to tell you about my podcast co-host Neil's agency called NP Digital. And they work with a whole host of global companies or a global organization. Also, Neil has SEO tools such as Ubersuggest and AnswerThePublic. All you have to do is go to npdigital.com to learn more, and we'll see you on the other side.

My take overall is I think Liquid Death's water market was big enough and they should have just stayed with water. That doesn't mean that the business would've made more money by just staying in water. Red Bull energy drink, you know, a lot of it is luck, timing, Things that aren't as controllable. Liquid Death is a little bit different because they're going into a very saturated market. When Red Bull came out with their energy drink, it wasn't a very saturated market or anything like that. It was a much smaller market. Of course, water is a massive market. And the reason I would've just stuck with water, it was a great brand, great product. I get you can introduce sparkling water a little bit here and there, but I would've never expanded a water company into energy drinks. Again, I'm not saying my recommendation would've made him more money. I think my recommendation would've made him less money, but I think you would've had a company with a much more loyal following fast forward 10, 15 years if you just stuck with one product.

You look at, let's use Ferrari as an example. All they stuck with was just cars, amazing cars. You look at Nintendo, all they stuck with was gaming. Sure, they started with trading cards, but they stuck with gaming the whole time.

Okay?

Just making fun games for people. Okay. And you look at Red Bull. Yeah, all he stuck with was Red Bull. And, you know, you look at Steve Ballmer, Steve Ballmer stuck with Microsoft stock the whole time, right? So, and Microsoft has stuck with software, right? And so, in a lot of these cases, if you kind of just stick with it and stay in your area, there's a lot to expand into. I think they're expanding into areas that maybe don't make as much sense with the original mission. So I think sparkling water is fine. I think hydration packets are probably fine too, but I think energy drinks, that's probably getting a little out of it and you're going to be out of your element.

Yeah. And then you're competing against Red Bull and Monster and all these other players. I'm not saying Liquid Death can't do well. Again, they probably will make more money doing all this stuff, but if I own the company and I didn't have investors, I think that's the key here. Liquid Death has to do a lot of this stuff because Their own large— I think they've raised a lot of money, right? Do you know how much they raised?

For death funding, I'm looking at it.

I know Science, the incubator in LA, Mike Jones and Peter Pham are part owners in it.

So it looks like they've closed multiple rounds. One of the latest rounds was $70 million, valuing the brand at $700 million. This was in 2022. Yeah.

So they close a lot of rounds and they have investors. So when you have investors, you have to have growth at all costs. Eric and I don't have investors. And I was talking to someone who works at a massive financial organization where they manage over a trillion dollars, not a million, not a billion, literally over a trillion dollars. And this person writes checks into startups. They're a division, they're in private equity of that trillion-plus dollar asset management. And this person writes checks in the hundreds of millions, sometimes more. They can write a half a billion, they can write a billion. They have a lot of cash, right? So money's not the issue. And when I was talking with them and we were talking about my own company, I was like, my growth slowed down a lot. We've expanded internationally, but I think we've made the right moves. And I was chilling at the pool at that time and my kids were swimming. So we were talking and he's just like, yeah, you're lucky you have no investors or else you would have the pressure for a minimum of 20%, 30%, 40% growth a year with good margins and good unit economics. I'm like, yeah, we're profitable. We have good unit economics. I'm like, yeah, I'm here chilling out at the pool because I don't have investors and I can do whatever I want when I want. Now, of course, every one of my customers is in theory a boss of mine, But we of course try to satisfy our customers and go above and beyond. But Liquid Web has outside shareholders, so they have pressure to grow and they've got to prove their worth.

Liquid Death, Liquid Death, Liquid Death, not Liquid Web. Liquid Web's a different company.

Yeah. Yeah.

But Liquid Death, just, just, just so you, just to give a sense for how much they raised. So they raised $1.6 million in seed funding. So I guess Peter did well and his co-founder, and then $9 million in Series A, that was February 2020, and then $23 million in Series B. And then another Series C that was for $75 million. And then they raised another $70 million or so, and then another $67 million.

Wow. So they raised more than a few hundred million bucks.

Yeah. Valuation is $1.4 billion as of 2024. Liquid Death also reported $263 million in retail sales for 2023.

Wow.

Yeah.

Never drank a bottle of it. I tend to stick with aquaponics.

I have, by the way, I bought, I don't ever told you, I went on Amazon. You should buy this too. So, I bought a water tester. So, I just stick it in everything. I'll have a cup and I'll just go around, I'll fill it up with shower water, I'll stick it in there, I'll stick it in the sink water, I'll stick it in there. And then, the Korean filter I have is— so, you want your water, I think I told you this, but you want the water to be under 50. It was 17. But when I put it under a sink, it's like 250. And when I put it under the shower, it's like 200 or so. And I have a filter for my shower too. So, good for you to know. You should try it too.

What does a filter look like? Is it a small device?

Um, you mean the, the tester?

Uh-huh.

Yeah, it's a small device. It's like a little— like, it's like almost like a thermometer that you put in your mouth. Yeah, you just put it in the water and you test it.

Remember when we went to Erewhon? You were gonna take that bottle home and do a test on the air?

I did, I did. It was 200. It was high.

So Erewhon water is not as good as they're saying.

Um, it was a different brand of water. It was a different— we brought a different brand. We didn't buy the Erewhon one, remember? Because Erewhon was out. Um, and so Erewhon I'll test it next time. And I actually have Erewhon water coming at 11:30, so I'll let you know.

Or how about like Aquapana? Have you tested Aquapana in it?

I don't have Aquapana at home, but I'll test it next time. I'll bring it when we record next time in person when you have a microphone.

I don't have— yeah, I actually have Aquapana, but in my house.

200 is actually okay to drink, I think, but there's particles and stuff in there, but 17 is like amazing. So yeah, this is why, guys, you need a reverse osmosis filter and then have some nutrients being piped back into it. And then you're good.

I'm the opposite, man. I take a shower, I just open my mouth if I'm thirsty and just drink out of the shower.

Do you really?

Yeah.

I've never done that in my life.

Warren Buffett eats McDonald's hamburgers and he's probably going to live longer than that— who's that guy with the biomarkers?

The Bryan Johnson? Oh, Bryan Johnson?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan Johnson does not look healthy, by the way.

By the way, you know what I'll say? I think for Bryan Johnson, it's hard to keep the marketing up because I think he had a lot of reach like a year or 2 ago. I don't think he has as much reach anymore. And now that he's kind of moved into selling stuff, I think it's— I don't know. This is a reinforcement that to be in the spotlight today, if you wanted to be like Oprah back in the '80s or so, you can be a celebrity for a long time. Now, because the algorithms are— it's so merit-based that people are very up and down, up and down, up and down, right? You might appear for a little bit and then you become irrelevant like the next day. So, it's hard to be a celebrity today, I think.

Dude, you know, I know someone who interviewed with him.

Who?

I can't— I'm not gonna say their name.

Oh yeah, sorry, not who, but what happened is more of what I asked.

Okay, so the interview was for, uh, a role of a chief of staff. Okay, but it was more like a personal assistant slash housekeeper, but they called it a chief of staff.

A housekeeper?

Yeah, you would have to do dishes and clean and all this, right? And it was really weird. The person needed a job. They chose not to take a job when they could have accepted it. Because it was stuff like, you can't sue me. You know, I'm gonna talk about stuff that you, you can't talk about. I'm gonna be naked sometimes. You're gonna see me with erections out and you have to be okay with it. And it was just starting getting really awkward like that. And they were just like, peace, I'm out. You know, like, I don't need more of the interview. I'm not here to go get a job with you. And I thought that was awkward. Like someone saying, hey, you're gonna work for me, but you're gonna see me naked and with erections and all this kind of stuff. And I was just like, I don't care how much they're paying, I would never want my kid to work in that kind of environment.

You know, I actually referred someone to work over there too. And same—

not—

I don't think it was the same situation as this, but this person got offered a job and decided not to take it. I didn't ask why, but maybe this is why. But, you know, I met him, I did a pod with him, but I just think my perspective is it's very hard to stay relevant forever. And the thing is, It's funny because he posts his biomarkers a lot but then there's like people competing with him on his biomarkers now and people say, hey, look, these are my biomarkers and they crush yours. And I don't think I have the best biomarkers in the world. So, it's like if you're going to say you're the best, you better be able to kind of back it up. And when I look at his biomarkers, a lot of mine are better than his too. And so, I don't think you can use that as good marketing because those people that kind of know a little bit more, they're going to come out and disprove you and then all of a sudden, you just look bad, right?

Yeah.

I respect what he's built and what he's done, but I just think it's hard to stay relevant, especially with the health and fitness stuff. And so, that's what it is.

But here's some crazy stuff from the interview, right? Hey, I drink this kind of olive oil, right? I'm acting like if I'm Brian. And I wasn't there, so maybe I'm getting some misinformation. That's my disclaimer. But he's just like, I drink this kind of olive oil, can't travel with it, so you need to figure out how to get it to wherever I am.

Right.

And I need this olive oil and it has to be done this way and it has to go wherever I'm traveling. You need to figure out how to get it for me. But it was just like a lot of random stuff like that. And then another one was, oh, you need to organize all my pills and all this kind of stuff. You know, it takes like roughly 250 supplements and pills a day.

Yeah, he didn't— that's a lot more than when I first asked him.

So, when you look at like 250, and again, I could be getting bad secondhand information, but that must be hard on your kidneys or liver or whatever it is. And when you look at him, I respect live your life, but I actually don't think what he's doing like no sun and all this is a great way to live, but to each their own.

The sun is actually really important. So, this is not a health podcast, guys, but you need the sun to reset your circadian rhythm and you need the sun for vitamin D and a whole host of other things. He does something that Asian moms do. They walk out in the middle of the day with umbrellas because Asian moms like to protect their skin and everything.

Or the visors.

Or the Asian mom visors. Yeah. And that is it for today, guys, and we'll see you tomorrow.