How To ACTUALLY Get ANYTHING You Want | Marie Forleo

Clarity for yourself is important. Remember the value of a really strong work ethic. Start listening to more of what's happening on the inside. That's often the fastest and most exciting path to fulfilling your life's purpose.

This next episode is with Marie Forleo. She's an entrepreneur. She is one of the world's biggest coaches.

We have a program that's called B-School. It's online business school for modern entrepreneurs who wanna make money, make a difference. We've helped now over 80,000 people start and grow their businesses.

We talk about why perhaps it doesn't make sense to focus if you're starting a business. We talk about how young people can be successful. We talk about her relationship. How did you know he was the one?

I felt instantly.

We talk about her business, we talk about marketing, we talk about why podcasts are getting stale, why podcasts like this are getting stale. It's a great conversation. Hope you enjoy. All right, Marie, How's it going?

So good. So happy to be here with you.

Yeah, thanks for being here.

Um, where do you, where do you spend most of your time today in terms of creativity?

Mhm.

You know, I've always considered myself a multi-passionate entrepreneur, and that's my own definition. I made up that little phrase, so you're not going to find it anywhere, but it is really a great way to describe the fact that I like doing a lot of different things. So for instance, I'm here in LA. I'm based in New York City, but I'm here to doing interviews like this, creating some new assets for our company in terms of photo shoots and meetings and pushing projects ahead. When I go back next week, we're preparing for our interviews on our podcast and our stuff in New York City. We're launching a new product, we're bringing on new team members. So it's like I'm always doing something different. And even when I first started my business, people were like, well, what do you do? I'm like, what day of the week? 'Cause at that point it was bartending, it was waiting tables, it was teaching dance and fitness. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

There were so many different things that I did even before the business.

You actually, you talked about this on another pod about how you were diagnosed with ADHD.

Yeah.

And there's this, I mean, in entrepreneurship circles, you know, everyone's like, you just need to focus on one thing. You need to lock in on one thing.

Yes.

And that's how you build it into like a $100 million, a billion-dollar company, right?

Totally.

You had a really good response. I don't know if you remember, but I'm going to ask you again. What do you say to people that tell someone that's really creative that says focus?

Listen, there's a lot of validity to that train of thought, and it's the number one thing It's not the right fit for everyone. Some people that are built like I am, and like I would assume many entrepreneurs are, essentially trying to focus on one thing feels like cutting off a limb, and it feels like you're leaving a huge portion of your talents, your gifts, your perspectives, your ability to contribute to something to the wayside. And I think honestly, it's an antiquated idea that was born out of a more cog-like paradigm for from the industrial age where you show up in a factory and you do the same thing over and over. And there was kind of this formula for success that quite frankly, in modern times is completely outdated. And I think, you know, for anyone that is, I would say maybe younger than 20, you don't maybe have a context for our grandparents who worked at the same job for 50, 60, 70 years, and then they got the gold watch.

Mm-hmm.

And then they had pension. It's like they came from a world where you put your head down and you focused, and that's your ticket to success. But for so many of us, again, myself included, it's like I've never fit into a conventional box. And between, you know, I was one of the world's first ever Nike elite dance athletes. I have zero dance training, meaning zero formal dance training. Passion got me everywhere. I love creativity, I love business. And any time that I tried to follow that conventional wisdom, it just, it honestly left me feeling stifled. It left me feeling broken, and I wasn't moving forward. I was miserable.

Right. So it seems like, I mean, the phrase I always like to use there's no solutions, only trade-offs, the Thomas Sowell quote. And, um, but I think the trade-off here is if you do focus on one thing, you, you might grow it to something that's way bigger revenue-wise.

Oh yeah.

But you would feel unfulfilled.

Yeah. Let's talk about that for a minute. Um, you know, when I was first starting my coaching practice and I was terribly insecure, I knew how young I was. I knew even in my own mind there was such a critical voice in there. It was like, you're 23 years old. You haven't even lived life yet. Who the hell are you to be you know, doling out advice, but there was something in my heart and my soul that knew there was something about this path that was really, really aligned with who I was supposed to be. And at that same time, when I was doing all this personal development work, training to be what I was hoping to be, the best coach that I could be, I was also taking all those ideas, personal development ideas, and applying them to myself. And the truth was, I never felt comfortable just calling myself a coach because I had such a passion for hip-hop, I had such a passion for dance, the world of digital business was This was like 1999, 2000, 2001. You know, blogs basically didn't quite exist yet. Social media was nowhere near existing. And I really looked in my heart and I was like, you know, at 23, 24, I was like, there's so many other things that I wanna explore. I'm happy to slow down my growth, to not make as much money, to not go as fast, to give myself this window of opportunity to explore all of these different talents and gifts that I'm really interested in for a few years. And I gotta tell you, Eric, that was one of the wisest things things I ever did because it gave me experience in front of a camera. I wound up getting that Nike gig that I talked about. I did fitness videos. I had my hands in so many different industries. And then at a certain point in my late 20s, there was convergence, meaning they all came together. And even now, I've been in business for 23 years, a lot of those early influences still show up in my business and they make it very unique than anyone else in the space. So I think if you're If you're open to not going hyper-fast, and I need to hit these big numbers, which, by the way, 9 times out of 10, they're totally arbitrary. Those desires or those goals might be because the media has conditioned you, or your family has conditioned you, or society has conditioned you that if you're not the next Elon Musk, well, you might as well just go home. And that's so not true. I think that there is, first of all, most of us, God willing, will have a very long life. You're gonna have many chapters. And I think if you have multiple passions, you owe it to yourself to explore because you'll never know how that creativity and all those different perspectives will converge at a certain point and give you such an edge that you wouldn't have gotten if you put your head down and focused and followed the rules.

Got it. And at what age did you figure out that, hey, I'm hearing this focus thing, but I'm not gonna do that?

So, yeah. And again, I tried, just to be clear, I tried so hard, but I, I was miserable and I was like journaling every day. And, you know, I was raised Catholic and so I was like, like, angrily writing at God saying like, why can't I just focus on one thing? Like, this doesn't feel right. And so I think I was probably around 24 or 25 when I just said like, screw it. I just kind of threw my hands up. And I remember a friend was asking me like, how's coaching going? I'm like, coaching's going great and I'm actually gonna start teaching hip hop. And it was a record smash. They're like, wait, what? Are you even a dancer? I'm like, well, I don't have training, but I've been going to these classes and I've networked.

Yeah.

And my teachers were like, you should be teaching. You're that good. And so I just kept following what felt Right? And what was bringing me alive and what was connecting me to other people and what was opening up my creativity. And it felt better than trying to put my head down and like just be one thing.

So what I'm hearing is it's really whatever works for you. There's no right or wrong way.

No, I think it's, you know, there's a lot of wisdom in books and there's a lot of insight to be gained from other people. But I think what we don't do a good enough job at in our society is training people to access the wisdom within. I think every single human being on the planet has a direct connection to whether you wanna call it higher intelligence or intuition or gut instinct. You can put any label on it.

Mm-hmm.

That's irrelevant. But there is a source of intelligence inside all of us that isn't conditioned by your family, by society, by external expectations. And if you can be still enough and start to train yourself to hear that, I think that's often the fastest and most exciting and creative path to fulfilling your life's purpose. As cheesy as that, as that may sound, I think that's why we're here. It's like, money's awesome, success is great, but at the end of the day, you wanna have meaning and feel like what you're creating makes a difference. And oftentimes that has to come from following that voice from within.

Got it. And, and how do you, speaking of the gut, yeah, when do you know when to trust your gut?

Okay. I think this is really interesting because for so many of us, we're ambitious. We wanna build something, we wanna get ahead, we wanna like have those big breakthroughs and opportunities come across. The table. And on paper, they might look good. Like, I can remember so many times, especially early on in my career, you know, I networked and I remember meeting this particular person who was like, hey, you're a really good coach. I'm really great at business. Why don't we do something together? And of course, my brain went to dollar signs. I'm gonna move faster. This person is gonna help me excel. But Eric, there was something inside of my belly that was just like, eh, doesn't quite feel right. This person was really good, but just something was a little bit off. Fast forward like 3, 4, or 5 months, I had poured so much time and energy into trying to make this thing work and was twisting myself into a pretzel and wanting this deal to come through. And it didn't work out. Eventually, I kind of stepped away, and it was really a wonderful lesson in that from the get-go, there was something off, but my ego didn't wanna listen to that. I was so focused on getting ahead. What were these dollar signs? How was I gonna kind of grab that next level of success? And I shushed my inner instinct. And I tell that story just for context, because for many of us, things happen in our lives, an opportunity comes up, we can do a deal, and everyone's like, you gotta take this. This is the best thing on the planet. But there's some tiny little part of you that's like, not so much.

Yeah.

Right? You wanna kind of pass, but you don't listen to it because of your ego. So here's a really great test that anyone listening right now could use for themselves to help them distinguish the difference between, is this your intuition saying walk away, or is it just fear? an insecurity that you can't handle it, you won't be good enough, you're not gonna have what it takes to actually excel at whatever this opportunity is. So let's say, Eric, for instance, you get an invite to do a big speaking gig, right? And you're like, okay, 5,000 people.

Yeah.

Your ideal audience. You're gonna have so many more subscribers to your podcast. They're gonna learn about you and your business, like all these great things. And it comes with this humongous speaking fee, but you're not feeling like sure, like, God, am I just nervous? Can I step up to this next level or is this not the right opportunity for me? So here's what You would do. Close your eyes. You gotta get really still, and I'm talking about still from the inside out. Like, turn off your phone, don't have anyone else around. Even if you need to go take a walk outside, take a walk around, get into a place where there's really a sense of calm within. Close your eyes and think about saying yes to this opportunity. Does the idea of saying yes to this make me feel expansive or contracted?

Expansive.

Now, in the moment and millisecond, ask after you ask yourself that question, like, does the idea of saying yes to this make me feel expansive or contracted? If you're really still, you will notice there is a physical sensation that comes up from within. It's not from your head. It's actually from your body.

Mm-hmm.

Expansive might seem something like you either sit forward a little bit or your chest lifts or your shoulders broaden, or like you just feel almost like you wanna jump out of your chair, or there's some feeling of joy or excitement or something that you would associate with a forward kind of movement. Does that make sense?

Mm-hmm.

Contracted might feel or sound or sense like dread in your belly, or your shoulders hunch, or you just get tired and you're like, oh God, that sounds awful, right? There's some part of you that just starts to move back or say no or get smaller. And what I've seen over time is that our bodies have so much natural wisdom in them, but we've been so conditioned to operate purely rationally that we kind of cut off all this other intelligence within us. And that single question helps you Train yourself to start listening to more of what's happening on the inside. And often what I've seen is those sensations are your intuition, your gut instinct trying to communicate with you. So if you can listen to that, you'll 9 times out of 10 make the right choice.

So let's dive a little deeper into that because those that can't see, I actually closed my eyes and I was thinking about it. So I was invited to speak at a conference in Europe, right? And that's in September. But it's like, I've never been to this country before. That is, that makes me feel expansive. But also this is not necessarily my audience, right? So that's contracting. So then what do you do now? You have conflicting.

You have conflicting, but I think that's where you can take both of those sensations and you're like, oh wow, I've never been to that particular country in Europe before. Maybe I just wanna go there on vacation.

Mm-hmm.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

I think putting those feelings into the context of your greater life and then using your rational intelligence to go like, do I actually wanna go here? Is that my ideal audience? Even if it was a big paycheck, is it worth it? 'Cause as you know, everything you say yes to in business, you're saying no to something else. Right. And that something else could be more time with your family. That could be just a peaceful weekend where you're not jumping on a plane. Uh, so, I think it's about, even if you have those conflicts, you can take that information and go, what was I excited about? Oh, I might actually want to take more time off and go travel and see stuff, not necessarily go say yes to a speaking engagement.

Got it. Well, now let's say you get invited to like 15 of these a year.

Yeah.

And none of those countries you've been to.

Yeah.

You can make the argument, at least for me, I'm like, I would like to go to all of those. I would like to take a vacation for all of those. So, then it starts to— No, I do.

Well, that's kind of, but what you're doing there, Eric, and this is how I would frame it, is you're trying to make a rule in advance. Do you know what I mean? Like to apply a rule out into the future rather than going like, let me make a choice about this particular decision right here and right now, 'cause who knows, maybe the next one, not only does that country sound good, but you're like, oh my God, I would love to be in front of those people. So rather than having it be a blanket rule, you're using this, and I think that this is more appropriate and more honest about how we have to interact with life. It's not a set it and forget it kind of thing. It's contextual. So, in 3 months, that new opportunity might come up and you might be like, actually, I actually do want to say yes to this one, and you tap in and that's where it is.

Got it. That makes sense. It sounds like you can probably use this in relationships too with friends and also dating.

Hell yes. If your body keeps saying no to something or you keep feeling this sense of dread, and here's like another quick hack for people. When you get an opportunity that comes up and let's say, oh, you're gonna have to do this speaking engagement in 6 months, or, oh, we're gonna have this meeting and we're gonna work on this project in 3 months. You're like, that sounds amazing. If you wouldn't be excited to do it tomorrow, don't put it in your calendar for 3, 6, or 9 months in the future. You'll hate yourself.

Mm-hmm.

Like when that time comes, you're like, why did I say yes to this?

Yep. I got one of those right now.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it's like we get so ambitious and we kind of go, Again, whether it's ego or we're just excited, we're like, oh, this is growth. This is amazing. This is gonna be this wonderful opportunity.

Yeah.

But that's a really quick trick though, to save yourself from being pissed at past you for saying yes to something you're like, I don't wanna do this at all.

Got it. Speaking of relationships, um, I, on a pod you did talk about how, actually, no, let, let's go back to your, your childhood. There's one distinct line that you said, I'm paraphrasing here, where you, I think at a younger, a younger Marie was like, I never want to get married. I never want to have kids.

Yeah.

So, um, what changed?

Well, neither of them, because I'm not married. And even though I am a stepmom, I don't have biological kids. So I am this interesting human in this way, where a lot of my friends, as a little girl, they were fantasizing about weddings, and I can't wait to have a family. And they would talk about all of these things in these princess moments, and I just could never relate. And And as I got older and was a teenager, still the same friends, you know, young girls would want to be like, oh wait, what, what's my, my wedding gown gonna look like? I was, I felt like they were speaking a different language. And then in my early 20s, every guy I dated was just like, oh, when we get married, I'm like, are you listening? 'Cause that, that's not what this human wants.

Yeah.

And so I was really lucky to find a partner who, A, already had a child, which was awesome. I was like, do you wanna have more? He is like, do you? I'm like, nope. He's like, I'm good. I was like, yes. And then, um, I was— he was— I was also like, do you have to? Do you feel like every person should get married? He's like, no. He's like, I'd love to marry you, but if you're not into it, I, I just want to be with you. I was like, this is amazing.

Yeah. And so, and how long have you guys been together?

21 years.

21 years. And so that's amazing.

A, yeah.

Uh, B, how did you know he was the one?

The one?

Yeah.

I felt instantly more like myself when I was with him. And in contrast to other past relationships, and they're wonderful humans, but I found in past ones before Josh, I was always trying to like kind of twist myself to be something that maybe I wasn't. And I didn't feel as solid, secure, or like me.

Yeah.

And it was— and I wouldn't have known how great Josh was if I didn't have all those other contrasting previous examples to have something to compare it to.

Yeah.

But every time with, with, uh, Josh, who again, we've been together a couple decades now, it's like we so respect who we are as humans and we build each other up.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and it certainly doesn't mean that everything's perfect. We've had tons of ups and downs, like every human relationship does.

Yeah.

But there's such love and respect and caring for who that other soul is. And it's just like, that was always, that's for me, that's true love and that's everything. And we, we like, people are like, oh, what's your wife? And we don't correct people cuz we're like, Who, who gives a shit? Do you know what I mean? It's like we're together.

Got it. And one more thing on, on this.

Yeah.

Knowing you, I mean, you've gotta have some systems around all this, right? So what are some interesting systems or things that you do in your relationship to keep it going?

Yeah. So one of the things actually is making sure that we have adequate time apart. Like we both, he's an actor, so we both typically work from home or we're in the home creating a lot. And he's really expressive and creative and so am I. And so having like, whether we have homes in several different places, so He'll maybe go up into the mountains and I'll go out to the beach, not for long, but it could be like 3 or 4 days. And there's something beautiful, I think, in taking those little moments apart. And then when you come back together, you're like, oh, I missed you. And you have so much more to talk about. So that's one of the things is really making sure that we're taking time apart so that we're not constantly on top of each other.

And this is like monthly?

Yeah. And, you know, it happens for us pretty organically because oftentimes as an actor, he's off shooting something. Or if I'm writing something new with a program or I've got a big project, I'm like, hey, I need a few days. Do you know what I mean? So, so we go like that. So it doesn't even have to be quote unquote calendared in any kind of rigid way. But if I'm feeling, if either one of us is feeling like, oh my God, we're spending a little bit too much time together, we bolt for a little bit.

Got it.

Um, in terms of other systems, we communicate really well. Like if there's friction, we call it out and we communicate about it as quickly as humanly possible just to clear the decks and to get back into connection and communication. Because I find that when resentment builds, And I haven't always been good at this. I've been terrible at it in the past, to be honest. Like, everything's fine. It's fine. What are you talking about? And it wasn't fine, but I didn't want to take the time, you know what I mean? To really dive deep and to dig in and to clear it out. And now, thankfully with age, it gets a little bit more wisdom. So I'm better at that now.

So you guys nip it in the bud immediately.

Nip it in the bud. Like, if it goes off the rails, we handle it.

Got it.

By the way, can we take one more thing there?

Yes.

Um, there was one point, probably like 7 years into our relationship where it was about to end. Like he was like, I was basically such a workaholic and he just felt completely like my business was my number one priority and he wasn't. And he was like, that's not what I want in life. And so we were, relationship was on the rocks and we went to, um, couples therapy and we stumbled upon what I believe is the number one tool for anyone who wants to have a happy Lasting, healthy relationship. It's called Imago Therapy. So the authors, Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt, they wrote a book, I think it was back in the '80s or the '90s. It was huge back then, but it was called Getting the Love You Want. But the real bottom line here is they're— I think they're in their 80s now. They do these weekend workshops and they teach you something called Imago Dialogue. For you or anyone listening, I feel like every human being needs to learn this tool. Because it can help you back out of any conflict. I mean, absolutely with an intimate partner, but it's also completely useful in the context of human relationships, work relationships, friendships, families. And I could not recommend it enough. So it's like you can take a weekend workshop for like $400. I don't know what it is. It's so inexpensive and you're like, this is priceless.

Yeah, I have that book. I never opened it before, but now that you've asked.

You got to do it. Go do a workshop though, because they train you in the tool and it's amazing. Like, I've never taken a seminar where like you're literally not allowed to ask questions. You just keep practicing with this tool. And at the end of a few hours, like maybe 9 hours, you walk away with a skill that can save you from destroying your relationships.

And this is you going to the workshop with your partner?

Yeah.

Okay.

And I mean, people can read the book. There's tons of it online. We interviewed them on our show, MarieTV. If you just Google Marie Forleo, This Couple Saved My Marriage, you'll kind of get the download on it. But it's so valuable.

Oh, so it's both of them teaching? Yeah.

And they're sweethearts. And it's like, what I love about them is they're constantly evolving their work, and they have thousands of what are called Imago therapists around the world who are working with couples actively. And then they kind of filter up the intelligence and they keep evolving their tools and techniques. And I'm like, you guys are brilliant.

Fascinating.

Yeah.

This message is brought to you by Leveling Up Founders, and Leveling Up Founders is an invite-only event for founders. It happens once a year, usually during August, and past attendees include people such as Ali Abdaal, Cody Sanchez, Neil Patel, Vanessa Lau, and the list goes on and on. And ultimately, it comes down to the quality of the group of the people. We try to keep the group high caliber. That's why it's invite only. So if you are a founder at the top of your game, you can go to levelingup.com/founders to learn more about it. And you can apply and we'll see you on the other side. Is there anything else you swear by there? I remember you mentioning that, but I feel like you've got a bunch of those under your belt.

Yeah, I think, um, One of the other things that we try to do, again, be— I love my work so much. So like, shut, just sliding into workaholism, that's like an easy place. And I always have to keep my eye on that because I get so excited about my projects that I can get super hyperfocused. So one of the other things that Josh and I do is we have like bumper times in our calendar where we, let's say in December, we look at our calendar, we're like, oh, this is gonna be our adventure, like our big adventure for the year. And, uh-oh, we're gonna take a weekend here. And so we put these almost like non-negotiable times.

Mm-hmm.

Even if we don't get on a plane. Or get on a trip. Like, we just completed a big renovation. We're like, we don't want to go anywhere. We actually want to be in the house that we just spent a few years remaking. It's those non-negotiable times that we have things collectively to look forward to that I feel like then, you know, work doesn't get in the way.

Yeah.

You know, you don't find yourself like a year like, what the hell? We haven't done anything special together in a while.

So it sounds like you have— maybe there's a thing that happens every month or every 2 months, and then there's a quarterly thing and there's a big annual thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Got it. Um, and I wanted to ask you too, I mean, here's another system. So the concept of being a time genius, right? So how does that all work?

Oh my God. Well, that being a time genius is something that, uh, so it's this program that I created several years back out of my own pain. So I've always been obsessed. I think like many entrepreneurs are like, how do we use our time as effectively as possible? Right? How do we squeeze as much juice as possible? And for me, it's not just about getting things done, but I love having fun. I love I love playing, I love adventures, I love being with my friends, I love going to amusement parks and doing like stupid weird things. And so that's always been my obsession. And then I think it was probably, let's say 2021, when all of my usual tricks in terms of meditation, journaling, working out, getting enough sleep, like all the things that I do to help manage my ADHD and keep everything online, just stopped working. Like stopped working. And Eric, I found myself waking up in the morning feeling a level of anxiety and depression that I had never experienced in my life. And honestly, it got really scary.

Even though you were meditating and doing all these things.

I was doing all the things.

Yeah.

And I was like, these are the things that are like my safeguards.

Yeah.

You know, like the things that help me stay really well. Yeah. And, and all of a sudden it's like nothing was working. And I started awake, and this had never happened to me before in my life. I started waking up in the morning and some of the first thoughts that I have were, I can't do this anymore. I wanna run away. Like, I wish I could just disappear. Like, I don't wanna be my— I was like, what is happening?

And how was the business doing at this point?

Business was doing fine.

Yeah.

And that's what was so weird. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like, on the surface, team was great, Josh was great.

Mm-hmm.

Like, everything seemed fine, but I was not feeling good. And it was as though no matter how hard I worked or how many hours I put in, it felt like it was never enough. I started feeling really guilty, like I couldn't take breaks.

Mm-hmm.

I started feeling like I was always behind. I was like, I was like, what is going— like, it was just this whole weird experience that I never had before. Um, then cut to, um, I started having these like unusual pains in my body. I got a bunch of lab works done and my doctor literally said to me, she's like, based on your blood work and your adrenals, it's a miracle you're able to get up every day. Then cut to more pains in my body and we discovered I had these tumors growing inside of me, including one, uh, Oh, wow. big one outside of my uterus the size of a grapefruit and it was pushing all of my other organs out of place. So it was just like I had pushed myself beyond, beyond. So had to have an urgent surgery. And that was the first time, in all honesty, that I'd ever had to take 6 weeks off in my life to recover.

Yeah.

And in that 6 weeks, I just had this new window into how punishing I had been to myself and how I felt like I was caught in what I've now named to be this world of time stress, which I think is this Really, it's a trap that so much of the world is caught in where we feel like if we're not going 24/7, 365, we don't want it hard enough. That no matter how much we're putting in, it's never enough. When we're playing, we feel guilty that we should be working harder. When we're working, we feel guilty that we should be spending more time with our family. You know what I mean? It's just this ongoing trap. And I said, there's gotta be a better way. I know there's gotta be a better way. And I started, um, I actually polled my audience. I sent out a survey to say, hey, do you guys struggle with any of these things? Yeah.

There's stuff that I was struggling with.

By the way, how long ago was this?

How long ago was this?

This was, um, 2021.

Okay, let's continue. Yeah.

In like 3 days, we had over 7,000 responses. And these weren't just like 2 or 3 questions. This was like people were writing novellas about how they were drowning and feeling so overwhelmed and like they were failures and they couldn't do it anymore. I was like, okay, so this is not just me. So I went back into the research and I went back into all of the different things. I'm like, there's gotta be a better way. And this whole system called Time Genius, which I created, came out, which was like Like, the world of time stress is what we're all stuck in. Our phones are dinging, everything's interrupting us, nonstop distractions. We're in our phones all the time. Did you know this? The average American will now spend the equivalent of 44 years of their life staring at screens.

No.

Yes. And right now, on average, Americans are spending 10 hours a day looking. Yes. And if you, you know, for any of us, yeah. And you don't, it's like you can test this for yourself. You know, we all know screen time.

Yeah.

Most of us don't wanna look at it 'cause we'd be horrified.

What are you at right now?

I actually don't even know because I don't, this, what we're talking about so helped me break so many of those unconscious habits that it's like, most I was using my phone today, we were playing Beyoncé. It's like, now it's my spot. You know, it's my little speaker that's running around.

Got it.

But as opposed to the world of time stress, there's this other opportunity, which is called being a time genius, where you actually push against all of the cultural norms that we've now accepted. You're not spending 10 hours a day on your screen and you start to use Um, all of these great tools from behavioral science and, uh, neuroscience to set yourself up to have spaciousness, to be really intentional. Something as little as, I don't know if you know this, but if you have your cell phone near you, it's draining your cognitive energy.

Mm-hmm.

If you actually put it in a box or you put it out of sight, you have so much more ability to focus. And again, for people like us, whether you have ADHD diagnosed or you just have trouble focusing, that's many of us. Yep. It's like there are small little things you can do. So we created this whole system. It's a 5-part system. People go through it and it transforms Got it.

So that's one thing, keeping your phone out of the way. Um, and it sounds like, I think in there you have something around tracking your time every 15 minutes.

Well, that's part of— there's like a wake-up call. So the first part of the system is really understanding that becoming a time genius is an inside-out job. Like, it doesn't matter what apps you use, your calendar system, a new journal, like all of those are external things. If you don't start healing your thoughts and your behaviors and your feelings around time. So for instance, a lot of people unconsciously are walking around saying like, I'll never have the time for that. I don't have the time for this. I can't do that. Like, they're afraid. They're living in a space of time scarcity, and if that's the internal messaging that you're saying, that's gonna be your reality.

Got it.

There's another possibility, which is this, which I'll invite people to take on, is that there's always time for what's most important, and that's just intrinsically rooted in an experience of time abundance. Like, oh, if there's always time for what's most important, that also presupposes that you know what's most important. That's probably one of the most important things That most of us haven't clarified quite yet. We have 17 things that we say are important, but we haven't really said, huh, at this stage and season of my life, what is really most important in my business? What's that one project that if I got it done this week, this month, this quarter, it would move the needle the most? What's the most important thing in my life that I should be focused around? Is it a relationship with a family member? Is it my own health? Is it actually being with friends? Who knows what it is?

Mm-hmm.

But you can't have 50 million things.

Right.

You know what I mean? It's never going to work. But if, you know, clarity is one of the things that actually removes overwhelm. A lot of people don't realize that overwhelm is a function of not being clear.

Yeah. And so, how do you stay clear? Because obviously, I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with working on multiple things, but you are working on multiple things. So, how do you stay clear?

Yeah, it's knowing what's most important and being willing to put aside what's not. So, for example, we have a project that we're bringing to life right now, and there's other things that are kind of hanging out in the wings.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm really happy to just say, nope, it's not your turn yet. Nope, it's not your time. Like, or when opportunities come in, because I know we're working on bringing something new to the market and it's really big, it's like, that sounds cool, but no.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's not time for that right now.

That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. So, it's like you can have those other, I mean, most entrepreneurs are gonna come up with ideas in your sleep.

Mm-hmm.

You know, that's how all of us are wired.

Yeah.

To have a place to put them, like a little incubator, It could be a Google Doc, it could be a notebook, it could be someone on your team that kind of holds them for you, for lack of a better word, and says, I got it, we're going to write this down. We're not going to work on it right now. It's not going to go anywhere. We're going to write this one down so that you can focus and get this thing done. That's how we do it.

Got it. That's helpful. And we'll ask you that after. I do want to talk about the business, but there's one more thing. Brad actually had this question. So it's actually much— I believe it's harder to be a young person today. And today's world, it's a tougher world, right? Yeah. So how do you— what do young people need to do to succeed?

Gosh, one of the things I think, it's important to remember the value of a really strong work ethic. And what do I mean by that? I mean that some of the basics of work ethic, showing up early, not being like, oh my God, it's 5 o'clock, I got to get out.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Just going that little extra mile, being open and curious, and being willing to do those little extra things. I cannot tell you how far that goes, because in any area of life that you want to be successful at, whether you're a part of a team or whether you're an entrepreneur, it's the people that go that little extra mile that are willing to come, again, 5 minutes before everyone, turn on the lights, make sure everything's okay, be calm enough to have presence, to greet people, to bring that energy of like, let's do this together. That doesn't happen if you're rushing.

Right.

That doesn't happen if you're like 5 minutes late and you're spilling your coffee and you're like, I don't want to be here. You're cranky or whatever. Same thing at the end of any day, right? If you're there and you're like, it's 5 o'clock, it's— there's— I don't know, I think— and I, by the way, this is not just young people. I see it across everybody, every age group.

Yeah.

The people that show up and they're like, I got this, you will be able to succeed no matter what you want to do because so many people these days lack solid work ethic.

Yep.

I cannot tell you. I mean, just as a consumer going into You go to any establishment, a restaurant, an airport, any place shopping, people that are just distracted on their phones, they don't give a you-know-what about any— they do not want to be there. They're miserable. They're complaining. Their energy— like, all of their best human qualities are not being displayed. And for me, I think if you can develop those tiny little habits, showing up early, remembering people's names—

Mm-hmm.

It sounds so stupid and trite, but think about how you feel, Eric, if you walk into When you walk into any establishment and there's a human there with presence and a smile that actually cares about whatever the task at hand is and making sure that you're having a great experience, don't you feel like you're like, oh my God, they care. This place is amazing. Like, it doesn't matter what— it could be a gas station. Those are the people, those are the qualities that I think because everyone else is falling down, you'll rise up so fast.

You know, it's just— I've been thinking about this recently. So I know you have a work You have a hard— you have a good work ethic because of your upbringing. And I think about, you know, my, my, my mom works extremely hard, right? Or worked extremely hard. And then, you know, some of my family members not so much. And so that looking at those patterns, it's like, oh, then I need to work hard.

Yeah.

But then that means I'm also lucky because I got to see those patterns.

Yes.

Now, would you say it's the same for you?

Because sometimes it's like you develop the work ethic, but sometimes it's just like, oh, I'll just like model these and like Yeah, I think, because, you know, all of us as humans, it's important, I think, to test and to experiment and see how you feel. Like, I remember being in bartending jobs as I was starting my business, and I was a pain in the ass. I showed up late. Do you know what I mean? I didn't want to be there. And in all honesty, my tips weren't great. I didn't have a great experience. I didn't gain anyone's respect. I didn't make— like, nothing good came out of that for anyone, including myself.

Yeah.

And when I switched my attitude and I was like, you know what, if I'm gonna bartend, if this is my bridge job that's helping me build my dream business, dude, I'm gonna show up like a pro. Mm-hmm. And got there and like, I'm gonna cut the best limes ever. And I'm gonna greet, just went over and beyond. Yeah. My tips increased. I had more energy to devote to my business.

Yeah.

When I came home, everybody's like, who are you? And what else do you do? And how can I help?

Yeah.

Like everything opened up.

Yeah.

So I think that for anyone listening to this right now, you know, if you're kind of in the zone where you're just phoning it in or you're doing the least necessary to get by, As an experiment, just try being an overachiever in the smallest ways.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean that you're gonna punish your— you're not gonna get taken advantage, like all the kind of fears of like, I don't even know what they could be, but just see how you feel when you show up like that.

What do you think your, for those watching, what do you think your average tip was before you started to, when you were phoning it in versus when you really started to bring it?

Well, there's another component to that. Like, I mean, I don't even remember what I made. God, it's so long ago. But here's what I will say, because I didn't want to be there, I kept not only energetically pulling back, but I was like, oh, I don't feel good, I need to go home. So I didn't even have the opportunity to make as much money. Then I was like, I'm here, you know what I mean? Oh, all— there's a big party coming in, I got it.

Yeah.

So, uh, I don't know if I'd be able to quantify it, but I do know just the sheer fact of showing up, staying there, and wanting to be there just got me better opportunities. So it got me more money.

Got it. And your, your work ethic. I mean, so here's, here's the funny thing about— so this is going on to 2 podcasts. One's called Marketing School. The funny thing is when we were starting that podcast, Neil Patel, my co-host on that one, he was like, he's like, let's call it B-School. I was like, no, no, no. Somebody— I was like, Marie has B-School. Yeah, yeah, let's call it B-School. No, no, we're going to call it Marketing School. So that's what we settled on. Yeah, that's the side story. But back then, this is maybe when we first started that pod, maybe that was 7, 8 years ago.

Yeah.

I knew, like, I felt like you were like everywhere, right? I felt like your work ethic was like Like, I feel like you might have been burning the midnight candle, right? And going that hard. Yeah. I feel like in recent years it's, it's dialed back. So I feel like there's also seasons for work ethic too. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, well, a couple things. It's, it's like we all have different seasons and stages of life. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like right before, um, the book came out, Everything Is Figureoutable, it was just, you know, going on all cylinders. And then after that, then we had the pandemy, you know what I mean? Yeah. So that was its own moment. Yeah. And And that's when I was telling you the story about having the surgery and all this stuff. It was like, I was like, oh no, you know, let's try this in a different way. So now for me, it's, I'm having so much fun and our team is great. I love our audience. I love what we do. And I also feel like, I don't know, I have more energy and I'm healthier and more creative than I've been in a really long time.

Well, one, that's great.

That's awesome.

One other observation I had. Have you always been this way? There's a certain, you know, there's a calm demeanor. You talk slower. Did you work on that? Or like, was it—

You mean than earlier years?

Yeah, than earlier years, because I tend to talk really quickly and it's a fast pace, right? And so I feel like there are people that work on it because like when you— like my phone says slow down on it.

Oh, really?

So I'm just wondering, because you— like a really good coach has to go through a lot of personal growth.

Absolutely.

There's a lot of layers to it, right? Did you work on that at all, or is that just—

No, I mean, I'm a, I'm a person with a lot of energy, and I think at different times, depending on what the engagement is or what the, you know, what the vibe is, I can dial it up and I can dial it down.

Yeah.

Um, and for me, just being really present in conversations and, and matching energy, it's fun. You know, I love doing that.

Cool. Well, let's talk about the business. So how does the business work today? What are the main pillars of it?

Yeah, I mean, well, from a front-end aspect, MarieTV and the Marie Forleo Podcast, like we've been putting out content, like I said, since like 2009. Even before that, this is like before video and before podcasts, I was sending out email newsletters since like 2001 weekly.

So you had high open rates.

Yes, very high open rates. So that's kind of the front end, and of course we're active on all the socials, so we've got a lot of social content going out, and then we have B-School.

Mm-hmm.

Which is our flagship program. We have another program called Time Genius, which we talked about. There's The Copy Cure. There's Everything Is Figureoutable. And then we've got some new things in the pipeline, in the cooker, that'll be coming out too.

Got it. What numbers can you share around the business?

I don't, um, well, over 80,000 people we've helped start and grow their businesses through B-School.

Mm-hmm.

Gosh, we're just about to cross a million subs on YouTube. I never share revenue or any of that kind of stuff.

Oh yeah.

So we're not going to go there.

Yeah.

But, um, I think all the other stuff is probably pretty public. Like, yeah.

By the way, Neil and I have an agency owners group called the Agency Owners Association. All you have to do, just go to marketingschool.io/agency. Once again, it's marketingschool.io/agency to learn more. And now back to the show. So you use this, there's this one agency that you use and, um, I think they're getting you a good chunk of views per month from short-form videos, maybe 50, 60 million or so. Yeah, maybe 100 million now. I don't know. I was actually— I was asking Gary Vee the other day, I was like, so what's the ROI of like these long— these short-form views, right?

Yeah.

Have you seen any ROI from that?

Not yet. Not yet. It's been, you know, for us it was like, wow, we have so many years of content and I'm not interested in growing a huge internal team of people just cutting and recutting, you know what I mean? It's like, like, there's probably people who could do that. So we were curious to say, okay, well, what if we had other folks that were really good at taking all of our existing content, chopping it up in new and different ways, in ways also that our team and our lens wouldn't necessarily see? 'Cause like, we have our own internal culture and perspective on what we think is interesting, but what might other people think are interesting?

Right.

And so for us, it's been a really fun experiment to work with great people who are awesome at what they do and so organized. But we have a really interesting business in this way where, you know, for someone else who might, let's say they were in the cosmetics industry or they had like an e-com business where they're selling something all the time, it might be different, but we're super unique in the space because we don't have evergreen products. So, we have all our products are, at least at this point in time, are open and closed launches, and they're also not cheap. Like, I've always positioned myself as being expensive and we're at the dot-com. What are the average? Well, B-School right now is at $2,500.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I think Time Genius is $1,500.

Yeah.

I think Copy Cure is $1,500.

Got it.

So, oftentimes for our customer base, like, they wanna get to know us a little bit. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And I've had so many people, Eric, who are like, oh my God, I'm finally doing X. I've like watched it for a few years and I thought it was maybe, and now it's like, oh, I'm really ready.

Yeah.

So, we have almost like a more slow, long-term burn kind of thing happening. So, ours isn't the best to judge ROI from that point of view, if that makes any kind of sense.

It does make sense, but you're going to continue to do it, right?

I mean, yeah, we're gonna— we're, we're always watching. Like, I'm in a phase right now where it's fun to experiment and to see. And, you know, we'll see the rest of the year if it does translate into dollars and cents or if it doesn't, and if we want to continue.

It's tough to say because— well, I— so I did ask Gary this question. I was like, so, okay, he, he was like, look, you know, I want to reach all 8 billion people in the world. He's like, that's the ROI of brand. And, um, you I was thinking about it this morning. I was like, some of the things that I bought recently were literally from a short video, a short-form video. And so like some form of magnesium or some book or whatever. But you cannot track that. And I remember one of our long-form videos, like it was not doing anything. And then one of the shorts took off, got a couple of million views, and that long-form one went from like 2% click-through rate to 20%. And so like, you just don't know, but it feels right, right?

It feels right. And but I think you're bringing up such a good point. It's such a mishmash right now. It's really hard.

Yeah.

And it's almost impossible to be able to track through. And like, how can you calculate, 'cause you don't know, how many impressions someone's having of you in all of these different places?

Yeah.

You can't tell if they're— someone's listening to me right now on this podcast. And then all of a sudden they heard maybe an affiliate was talking about us.

Yeah.

And then someone else is like, oh, this girl Marie Forleo wrote a book. And then all of a sudden they see, you know, one of those short forms. They're like, Yeah. You know, how do you connect? It's impossible at this point. And but what I do know about human nature is that for all of us, myself included, the more familiarity you have with something, generally speaking, if you like their vibe, trust goes up. And when trust goes up, sales go up.

Yeah. I debate this with, with Neil all the time. My whole thing is, yes, like if it feels right and there's some more so not quantitative but qualitative feedback, like you're buying stuff, you're seeing people say, oh, I saw this over here, then like it's probably working. Yeah. And plus, like, Like your, the way your sales mechanism works is they go to a webinar probably and they buy.

Yeah, they'll opt in. I mean, we have so many free tools and like part of it too, to your point and even to that comment that Gary made, I love Gary. Um, you know, we have such great free content and for us even internally from a mission standpoint, it's like we want as many people to see it as possible and the free stuff is awesome. So, you know, none of the material gains I make as an individual or we make as a company, you can't take it with you.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So why not do what you can to have as much fun, to get the message out, to impact people? Like, a member of my team is here while we're recording, Kelsey, and she was telling me that she was home and she was getting a facial at some, like, amazing place near her. And the person was asking, oh, what do you do? And she's like, oh, I'm in social media. And they, who do you work for? And they, Kelsey said my name and she's like, I'm like, stop it. This whole entire place wouldn't exist if, like, I went to B-School, and that's the whole reason this business is here.

That's amazing.

So, I hear stories like that all the time, which makes us excited about short-form content, getting it out there, and eventually, whether it's 3 months, 6 months, 2 years, another human winds up going through B-School and then creating a business that then changes the trajectory of their lives and their family's lives.

That's amazing.

You know what I mean? Like, for me, it's like, dude, it's worth it.

Yeah, yeah. As long as you feel like you're having fun and directionally you feel like it's moving in the right direction, you just keep going.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, you— so you, you don't have any social apps on your phone, right?

They're there.

Or you don't really use them?

No. Yeah, like, I use— for Instagram, it's like if, if I just met a friend or there's something like there's in a DM, it's like, oh, I should go and say hi to that person. But I don't spend time on social.

Yeah, the reason why I'm asking that is because when you look at Gary, for example, he's on social all the time, right? Um, but you're still able to continue to build an audience even though you're not on social. I don't think you're on social that much.

No, like very little amounts.

Less than an hour a day.

Yes, like I, I love, you know, we put up a dance video, team put up a dance video, I was like, oh my God. So I'm like jumping in there because it's a real point of joy for me. So I love connecting, but I'm not opening to scroll a gajillion times a day. Yeah, I love going Saying hi, um, commenting to people, like giving them love, sending a DM or two. But it's like, it's almost like when you would go, you know, when you go to your mailbox.

Yeah.

You're not even going to your mailbox.

No, I don't actually.

Oh, so—

I avoid my mailbox.

Do you, do you have a mailbox?

I do, but I like, when I open it, it's filled.

Oh, 'cause you never go to it.

Yeah.

Okay, great. So some folks, we go to our mailbox like once a day. You go, you grab some things.

Do you really? Once a day?

Once a day.

Wow, okay.

Yeah, and you just, it's like a little stroll. And you go to mailbox and you get the things and then you go, right? But I'm not going, my point is I'm not going there Like 75 times a day and checking.

Got it, got it, got it.

Same. That's how I treat social, where it's like, oh, hi everyone. Okay, bye.

Yeah. So I think like the proof in the pudding is like you can build a great business and not have to be on social.

You don't have to be dominated by it. It doesn't have to like run your life. And the thing is too, we talk about this, like I love making content. I love creating videos. I love sharing ideas. I love making things and connecting with people. And you can do all that without necessarily having to have your phone attached to your face. And like Gary's a very different animal. What I think what's so cool about Gary is like he loves it. Do you know what I mean? I mean, like it brings him life and energy. And I think that the point here is that there's many different ways to have a super vibrant, profitable, impactful business. It all doesn't have to look one way. So if you're someone who, A, loves that style and you're like, oh my God, it brings me life to be on social all the time, freaking go for it. Or you might be someone on our, my end of the continuum, right? Closer to that where you're like, it's actually not my favorite thing.

Right.

You're like, oh, you can still participate. You can still deliver a ton of value and use as a really good marketing tool without having it dominate your life.

It just goes back to whatever works for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And being brave enough to like test, being brave enough to challenge your own assumptions and to not think that there's other quote unquote gurus out there that if you don't follow their exact system that you're never going to make it. It's bullshit.

Got it. And then going back to your business real quick. So it sounds like it's, it's programs that you have. There's a lot of— there's probably a group coaching element. You don't do any one-on-ones anymore, do you? Okay, got it. So, so do— if people do want to build a coaching business, it sounds like you figured it out. Group coaching or—

I love it. Well, because I think that there's so— I mean, for me, there's just so much value. Like, I, I love learning. I'm a lifelong student, so I'm constantly investigating. I'm constantly learning things for myself. I'm constantly challenging myself. And when I find or experiment with things that work, you know, I'm from Jersey. It's like if there's great gelato, I'm going to shout out about it on rooftops. Same thing with great pizza. Same thing with a great personal development or business idea. So for me, I love constructing programs where there's leverage in terms of I can teach 10,000 people these ideas at once, you know, and have all of them to whatever degree they want go activate them in their own worlds, in their own lives. And for the people that want to interact, we have incredible coaches that we call mentor coaches that support people and guide them through the programs. And I show up sometimes in like live calls and things like that.

Yeah.

But it's like, I also like empowering people to get things done.

Yeah.

And to see themselves rise up, it's like they don't need me. I'm just— I'm like a conduit, a little channel.

Makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

So there's a couple of things. So Neil and I actually started a group for agency owners, but our main thing is we need to focus on operating our businesses. So he has his, I have mine. Yeah. But, you know, we're like, okay, but do we have to— the reason I'm not even involving him right now is because the beginning part where you have to get a community going is a huge pain in the butt. Yeah. And so So it's like, how much time are you committing right now to these calls? How often are you getting on these group calls?

So for instance, like our B-School program, when we run it in the summertime, it's often 4 weeks and we take people through the entire program. And so I'll hop on a call once a week. Time Genius, we have like 3 calls and we do it sequentially, like 3 days in a row. But I'm at this point, you know, I think it's been 23 years since I've been doing this. I love just firing away Q&As with people, with our people in our programs, 'cause I've, it's one of my special superpowers to get people kind of untwisted and get them really clear and moving fast.

Yeah.

So, oh, very minimal time, but I love it.

Can we talk, let's talk about this too. This is another, uh, so going back to Neil again, he tweeted this and he got ripped for it. But, um, so he tweeted, you know, I, I don't understand, you know, coaching, coaching is so stupid. Like if they're so good, why would they be, why would they be coaching? Blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

And then I, I've always debated him. Literally after this, I, I have my coaching session. I'm going to my coach, like, I don't know, 3:30 or so. But, um, so how do you— question is, how do you go about finding a good coach? Like, how can you tell?

That's a great question. I think, you know, for me, I think first of all, it's about being really, really clear on what it is that you want to learn or you want to transform or the skill that you're trying to build. I think having that clarity for yourself is important. So, for instance, for I've always wanted to learn to sing, right? So, I'm gonna find the world's best singing coach, and I have found them, someone who can help me, like, oh, Marie, this is how we're gonna train your voice. This is how we're gonna build this muscle. These are the kind of different aspects and nuances of the skill that you wanna learn.

Yeah.

And I think it would be the same thing. Like, I— for most of us, for me personally, I like finding specialized people that I can hire, that they can teach me a specific skill set. A specific mindset, or how to go from like level A to level Z in, in a narrow field.

Right.

So, I think number one, it's understanding what exactly you're looking for, and B, finding someone who has a track record of helping other people, because some folks who've achieved great results, they may be amazing humans and they're amazing executors, but they don't know how to translate what they have been able to accomplish into Either some type of code or some type of, um, formula, for lack of a better word, that— or even like a framework that another person could follow to gain that particular skill or get that particular result.

Got it. And are you still working with that singing coach right now?

I have sessions with him. He's a dear friend.

Okay.

But, uh, I'm not doing active singing lessons right now, but it's like I have a little package that's waiting for me when I'm like, oh yeah, I want to take a few— I want to take a couple weeks and Like push on that. Yeah.

The reason I'm asking is, is like sometimes you might work with a coach for a year, maybe a couple years or so. Yeah. When do you know it's time to move on?

I think so. For me, I remember back in the day I had hired, um, this one coach. I just wanted more support around my business. Mm-hmm. And it was kind of when I was still very close to being a solopreneur. Yeah. And, you know, had a few virtual assistants. Mm-hmm. And I remember that I had so much work on my plate and my coach was like giving me more. I was like, dude, this is not like I'm paying someone to put more work on my plate. Mm-hmm. When I already know all this stuff that I need to get done and I can't get to it. Right. And that person was amazing. You know what I mean? It wasn't— it was just I had kind of grown to the level where like, I'm good.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, that's a good way to put it. I think where Neil's argument is really the business coaches that unfortunately I'll call them internet marketers have made look bad. So it's like when you're showing off the Lambo, when you're showing off all these like the big houses and all that, that's what makes coaches look bad. And that's what he's really talking about.

Oh yeah. Well, I think it's, you know, it's probably true in every industry, right? There's like really pure, integrous people that are awesome at what they do, and they absolutely deserve whatever fees that they have. And then there are other, unfortunately, folks that don't have much integrity, do you know what I mean, who are just kind of— and again, we can see it, you can see that across any industry.

This message is brought to you by Single Grain. Single Grain is a marketing agency ran by yours truly. Single Grain does paid media SEO, creative, conversion rate optimization, and has worked with a handful of companies such as Uber, Amazon, Airbnb, Salesforce, to startups, venture-backed startups, a lot of different companies. And ultimately our mission is to do innovative marketing that drives customers. If you want to learn more, just go to singlegrain.com. Again, it's Single Grain, grain like wheat, and we'll see you on the other side. A couple more questions before we wrap. So because you've helped so many people, what are the typical patterns you see What do you see holding people back from achieving their dreams?

I think one of them is they don't want to make a mistake, so they kind of spend so much time in keeping possibilities open. Like, but what about this? But what about that? And it's like, dude, just do it. Like, all of us, we test things all the time and we're like, that was a stinker. You know what I mean? Like, that didn't work. And we're willing to spend money and waste it to learn. So I think the things that hold people back are not making a decision, not being willing to just test something. I also think people think too big. They're like, I wanna build this gajillion-dollar huge thing, and this is movement, it's gonna change the world, it's gonna change— it's like, dude, don't worry about changing the world right yet. Change one person's life.

Yeah, yeah.

Just start, like, starting small doesn't mean thinking small. And so, if you can just get one person, 2 people, 5 people, all of a sudden, now we got a little momentum, we've got some testimonials, like, there's a lot of great things that come from starting small. Got it.

Makes sense. And your, um, the book that you wrote, Everything Is Figureoutable, which I think is a great title.

Thank you.

Um, the time you spent doing that—

Oh my God, I was terrible. Yeah.

So, okay, if you're— would you do it again? Would you do another book?

Oh, totally. But I tortured myself. It was, you know, a lot of MarieTV, especially historically, like, uh, we scripted it. I write all the scripts because there were sketches involved. And whenever you're writing and executing comedy, like, you can't just Improv. Like, there's a lot of production in the backend. And so I'm like, I'm writing all the damn— I'm writing my emails, I'm writing web copy, I'm writing marketing copy. Like, this is gonna be fun, this is gonna be awesome. Somehow when I sat down to write a book, and I've heard many people have this experience, dude, I put so much pressure on myself and I got so twisted up because I wanted it to be the best that it could possibly be. And it totally stalled me. I struggled so hard.

So you fell into that pattern? Oh God.

I was just like— and here's one of the biggest rookie mistakes that I made. And I had already written a book. I'd written an earlier book on dating, like earlier in my career. And somehow, I didn't know enough, and there wasn't a lot of shine or spotlight, so I didn't put pressure on me. I was like, I'm just gonna get this done. And that worked, 'cause I wasn't trying to be perfect at it. But I tried to write the introduction first, which for anyone who wants to write a book, please don't ever do that. That's like a torturous thing.

Why's that?

Because you can't really write an introduction to a book If you haven't written the full book yet. What an introduction does when it's done really well is it actually previews a little bit of the journey that's coming ahead. And for most people, not all, I'm a person who often finds clarity and I figure out where I'm going by getting in there and doing it.

Mm-hmm.

So even at the beginning of the book writing process, I had a very clear proposal, we had a very clear outline, but this, from building anything, you have a map when you're starting and then you get into it and everything changes. You know what I mean? New information reveals itself and you have new ideas that actually are better than your original. So it's like, never start at the beginning. Let your introduction be written at the end.

That's interesting. 'Cause as you said that, I was like, oh damn, that's, that's exactly what I did with my first book.

Right.

And it made it way harder because I had to follow that introduction.

That's right. Because you were like locking yourself into something.

Yeah.

OK.

There's a lot more we can talk about. But here's the final thing I want to chop it up with you on. So you have a podcast, right? Sometimes I think it's you talking, but sometimes you have guests too.

Absolutely.

So pre-show, we were talking about— this is just a cloud that's been sitting over me. I'm like, man, interview podcasts are really getting stale, right? And so—

Tell me more about that. Tell me how you see that.

Yeah. And so, OK, when we think about— yes, there's Lex Fridman, and Andrew Huberman's getting interviewed, or Peter Attia. Maybe Huberman's not a good example right now, but you get my point. And it's the same big people getting interviewed and they're all 3-hour interviews and you start to hear the same thing over and over.

Totally.

I've heard your story already. I hear what your shtick is about. But the podcasts that are maybe more enjoyable are when, you know, one of my friends had me on his pod. He sent me like a list and we just, we just chopped it up on ideas.

Yes.

The most exciting business ideas. Oh, did you see this over here? Did you see this? It's like a conversation that people are sitting in on, right? And so So, if everyone's doing the same format now, then that maybe means it's time to zig where other people are zagging.

Absolutely. I was just on a friend of mine yesterday, Dr. Mindy Pelz, and she wrote this amazing book called Fast Like a Girl. It's done really, really, really well, and she's doing great on her YouTube channel. And you know what we did at her house yesterday? We did a cooking show, and we talked about all kinds of stuff. And so, that was an example of me being a guest on her show, we made a meal together and like I shared one of my favorite recipes and we talked about so many things amid making that meal and there was so much value created that to your point had nothing to do with any stories that I've told before, had nothing to do with her quote unquote traditional platform in a sense.

Yeah.

And it was awesome. So I think you're onto something and I think I love that you're underscoring too that it wasn't about trotting out the kind of same content because to your point, it's almost as if there are these mini TED Talks that you're like, oh, I heard that before, right? It's like the same talking points again and again, where if the questions are fresh or it's actually just a conversation.

There's actually— so there's a connecting point here with, with, uh, Gary. So Gary was saying this last week and I didn't think much of it. He's like, you know what I think is going to be really big? Because he does these Twitch streams of him working for 12 hours.

And people are into that, right?

Yeah. Oh my God, he's like, I think that's the next big thing. But the cooking thing, or like people going on a walk or whatever, Like there's just gonna be these new formats, but people have to innovate.

It, it's true. You know, my team, they wanted me to do this. We're actually, I think it's publishing, I don't know if it's next week or the week after, um, for our YouTube channel. They're like, Marie, people love coworking sessions. And now for me, I was like, are you, you're shitting me, right? Like, you know what I mean? And they're like, no, no, no, no, you got. And so they pulled up all these examples.

Yeah.

And they were like, our audience would love to cowork with you. And I, I'm telling you, it took me a minute. Because it's just, it's not my nature. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, I got Beyoncé on, I'm doing my thing, I'm whatever. But we did it and now I'm so excited to put it out there because I was like, oh, this is really cool. So I didn't even—

So you're doing it live, but it's recorded?

Oh no, we prerecorded it. So we have like, it's, but we, but it was like a live recorded thing, do you know? So I was legitimately working and we set it up in a few different places and we set it up so it was like, It was like, I think it was like 3, almost like Pomodoro sessions.

Okay.

Like 3 25-minute sessions with like a nice little 5-minute break because I am a mover. Yeah. And I do take walk.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? I get up and move around cuz it's good for my head.

And this is done remotely, right?

Yeah.

Other people are Zooming in or something.

Yeah.

Okay.

They'll be able to watch it.

That's interesting. Well, Marie, this has been fantastic. What's the best way for—

thank you so much—

people to find you online?

Um, @marieforleo on all the socials and marieforleo.com. We actually have a great free coaching session. Speaking of coaching sessions, it's called How to Get Anything You Want. So if anyone listening feels stuck or they were like, oh, I got something that I really wanna create and I don't know how to actually get it moving forward. Yeah. Go download that coaching session. It's 100% free. It'll get you moving.

That title, that headline, that has to, that's so evergreen. That has to just continue to perform, huh?

It is one of our, it's so good.

Yeah.

And it's just because it, um, it's simple and it's effective and it's like, yeah, who doesn't wanna virtually get anything you want?

Love it. All right.

Thank you so much for that. Thank you so much, Eric.