How to Master New Habits and Crush Productivity - An Interview with Noah Kagan (Part 3)

Hi everybody! Lift off!

So how do you personally— because you've changed a lot in the last couple years. I mean, physically, like you're working out a lot more, things like that.

I know, I used to have hair.

Yeah, you used to have hair. So what's going on? How do you grow personally? How do you get better, man? It could be education-wise or fitness-wise.

Growth can come in a lot of different ways. I think growth comes when you start asking yourself, am I growing? And that's probably because you're not growing. And growth doesn't come when you're doing the same thing over and over, unfortunately.

Mm.

You don't grow— like, think of it really simple as your muscle. If you do the same routine for the next 2 years, you're probably not gonna grow your muscle.

Why?

Because there's no reason for it to change. Nothing's changing to it.

Mm.

That's where growth comes from. So number one, if you're asking about it, that's probably some indication that you wanna grow in something. Number 2, you probably have to put yourself in uncomfortable places. Doesn't have to be like sexually, like, uncomfortable, but it has to be like, hey, I'm trying something new, and I'm trying something that's a little awkward. That's probably where growth— that's where growth happens. I think 3, it's also who are you surrounding yourself with? And this is another one, everyone's heard it. You're the average of 5 horrible people you're around. We all know it, but we don't live it. And so how do you know you're around great people? Because they're inspiring you to grow.

Hmm.

They're doing things you're like, oh shit, that guy's doing video? So like my buddy JR was starting to do videos. So that's part of the reason I got into YouTube. 'Cause I'm like, oh, he's like, yeah, YouTube, it's so fun, it's a good way to interact. And I was like, oh, I should try that. So are you surrounding yourself with people that are inspiring you? I think as well you can try to set up— what I do is I set up bucket lists each year. I don't do bucket lists for life, I think that's a little bit too long, I don't know how long I'll live. But each year I have it already for 2018, like what are personal things I'm interested in developing, what are professional things, and then what are like activities I want to try.

What are some examples?

So for this year, I do basically work, workout, and personal. So I do it on a yearly basis bucket list, and I do it on— and then I do that weekly. So my yearly stuff this year, on the work stuff, Certain revenue goal for the business, certain amount of downloads for my podcast. And some of those I won't hit. My podcast goal was 100,000 downloads an episode. I'm nowhere fucking near that.

Mm-hmm.

On the workouts, I wanted to go to the gym. My goal for the gym was go to the gym 3 days a week and go bike riding 3 days a week. At least 1,000 miles total. I hit those. And then on the personal side, I wanted to go to 2 business seminars. Just any, didn't matter. I wanted to go to Utah. I wanted to foster a dog. And I wanted to play an instrument. So I haven't played an instrument yet. So that's the last one. I got a few months left.

So where's the framework for coming up with all these ideas, like going to Utah, for example? Where's that come from?

Yeah, so I don't want to have too many things. I think when you have— it's like in your business. I think you have to have one clear goal, and then what are maybe 3 things that you can do to help get that goal? And so I have 3 categories, and generally I want somewhere between 3 and 5 for the whole year. And that's it. And then you kind of really— it's really interesting. During this year, I started doing a lot of different things. I had podcasts, I had YouTube, I had software, I had AppSumo, I had Sumo. I had WordPress plugins. I had like some of my other shit. And I just kind of came to this realization. I had 2 major realizations, especially when I was in Israel. Number one, if you're doing more than one thing in general, you can't be great at it. Like how many people, like only very few, but how many people are great like basketball players that are great football players?

Yeah.

Almost none.

Bo Jackson.

Bo Jackson. He's football and baseball.

Yeah.

So, but almost none. How many people are like, you know, Elon Musk is more of an anomaly, but how many people are great at running one company or running 2 at the same time? Very few. You know, make jobs a little bit, Elon Musk, but these are the outliers.

Yeah.

So the point being is that like almost no one else in the world can do more than one thing great. But for some reason, every, all these normal people who aren't being successful are like, well, why am I not doing well? It's like, well, you're probably not doing one thing great. That's one thing. So that was one thing that was a big takeaway. So cut out a lot of the bullshit you're doing in your life. Maybe if you have multiple businesses, just focus on the one that's working and say, hey, I'm gonna do the one that's working for 3 months, 'cause it's hard to give up things, but try for 3 months only that and see how it goes. So I basically was like, I'm only gonna do sumo.com 4 days a week, that's it. And 1 day a week I fuck around with my podcast and YouTube and I bring that stuff back into Sumo. And that's what I think has helped Sumo do better. Second thing that was a major realization I think what people miss out on is that they're looking for all these hacks. And I think people need to say fuck the hacks, right? They're like, oh, what's this productivity hack? How do I— If I drink cold tea with 1 cup, 1 teaspoon of semen in it, I'll wake up in the morning. I'm like, that's bullshit, right? And most of them aren't sustainable. So in terms of personal growth, I think what people need to do is say, where, take a pie chart and be like, where do I spend my time? So you spend your time at work, you spend your time in your bed, and you probably spend your time on one activity.

Mm-hmm.

And so just spend time figuring out how to optimize that. So with work, buy a better laptop, Learn how to type faster. You're gonna sleep 8 hours a day, that's a third of your life. Buy a better bed, buy better pillows, buy a better mattress, buy a better comforter. Go to sweethome.com and find which one's the best and just optimize around that. And then with your hobby, go buy the best around that or optimize. Like, for me, it's mountain biking and Hebrew. They're my kind of 2 hobbies. Go do whatever it takes to be like, get major. So I think the point I'm trying to make in general is go focus on major wins. I think these people are like, how do I take a cold shower? I'm like, that's a like trivial, shallow thing That won't really help you. But if you learn how to type faster, you'll probably double the amount of things you can able to do in a day.

True. I actually stole that from you. It's part of our interview process now. And whenever you score below a 60, you're screwed.

So yeah, typing speed, your keypad, your trackpad. Go make your track speed the fastest. For the first day, you'll be like, this is stupid. The next day you'll realize, oh my God, I was waiting an hour to fucking get my mouse up to that. Learn how to use your keyboard. Learn major wins. Stop wasting time with minor wins. I think that's where I I spent a lot of time earlier this year getting excited about minor wins, when, you know, there's major wins are actually gonna compound and make like magnitudes of difference. Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of your original question, it's like, what is growth? I think growth is like, what things you're already kind of scared of, how are you setting yourself up for growth in the beginning of the year, who are you surrounding yourself with? Um, some of the things that have worked for me.

You tend to surround yourself with great people from what I've seen. So what do you do around that? I mean, how do you find these people that you surround yourself with?

So I've thought about this and I feel very blessed. And I, when we get to hang out, I'm like, oh man, how can we hang out with Eric more? So what do I do is that I create in Evernote, I have cities. So I have San Francisco, LA, I was just updating San Diego, Boulder, Seattle, and Israel. And I keep a list of people that are in these cities.

Smart.

And then I delete people. Oh, I do.

You deleted me. I did.

No, you're on.

You're on.

I checked.

You win!

And so what that means is that when I come to cities, I say, oh, I'm going to San Francisco in 2 weeks. So today at 5 o'clock in my calendar is San Francisco planning time. So I'm gonna go— I'm gonna either— either I will or my assistant will help me contact those people and we'll hang out. And what I do in those cities then is I say, hey, we're gonna go to lunch. Bring one person that you like.

So smart.

It's science. I copied this from someone else.

Yeah.

But they bring one person they like. And then I'm like, yo, dog, that guy was cool. Now we're friends. I did it in Israel too, which was a good, good one. I, um, got to Israel, I knew one person really well, and I said, hey, I'm gonna give out— I'm gonna buy unlimited wine and unlimited falafels. Come over to my house, bring 5 friends. So he brought 6 people over, and it was called Falafels and Wine, and I started doing it every Friday. And out of that, like, I met 2 guys, and then we became friends, and then 2 more people, and then ended up actually getting to know a lot of the tech scene in Israel because I was doing the Falafel and Wine. which helped extend the amount of people I was able to know. I think with people in general, one thing I've realized about life is like, to get the things you want, you have to put in the effort. So if you actually wanna expand the amount of people you know, or the people that you have access to, how much effort are you putting in? 'Cause I think most people are like, well, I don't— It's like me waiting at my door for my wife. I've never had a hot girl just knock on my door except if it's a food delivery. But like, they just don't, it doesn't show up at your door. You have to open the door, get the fuck outside, And go, I wanna find this. All right, go and find it. And then the last thing I would say, especially from AppSumo and with Sumo, most people are going up to people and be like, hey, can I have a dollar? Hey, can I have a dollar? Hey, can I have a dollar? And we've heard these books, give, give, and take, and then jab, and then left. I don't— sounds like bullshit to me. I think if you wanna meet a bunch of people, go and help them first without any strings attached, legitimately. And I'm— it's hard for me, 'cause I want things fast.

Mm-hmm.

I wanna go and like, I want Thomas to email all of his customers about sumo.com. And I want this now. And I, everyone wants that though. But the more that literally, and go experiment with it. So I experimented with the podcast. This was pretty interesting. It wasn't like trying to be sneaky. 'Cause I think people are getting smarter. Hey, I wrote this article about you. Check it out. I think you'll like it. It's like, you know you just want me to go share your shit.

Yep.

But you don't wanna say that.

Yep.

And so, I wanted to get on other people's podcasts for my podcast. And for YouTube as well, for Noah Kagan on YouTube. I wanted other people to just— literally what I wanted was you to make a dedicated video called the Noah Kagan Presents and just have a link to my show.

That's really what I wanted.

But you don't want that because you have your own show that you're trying to go after.

Yeah.

And what I realized— so for the first 2 months, uh, I had one of the guys I worked with create a list of people that I should be on their show. And I would email them and say, hey, I'm Noah Kagan. I've done these 3 boring things. I'm basically trying to get on your show so that you can promote me, but I'm gonna really help you and be a great guest. And it worked okay. Maybe like 20% were like, yeah, sure, come on, fine. And some were friends like you who are very generous about it as well. And I appreciate that.

Mm-hmm.

And then one night it was 1 AM and I'm like, you know what? I'm such a fucking taker. Let me just do a 180 where literally all I'll do is give and I won't ask for shit.

Mm-hmm.

So I wrote it, I deleted the emails and I said, I wrote a new email. It was like, Have I told you this already?

No.

So I wrote this new email and the email was like, yo, I was gonna email you to fucking get on your show and be a little bitch. Ah, look at that. Yeah, this is literally what I wrote. Not the bitch part, but it's like more or less, hey, I just really wanna be on your show, but that was lame. All I'm gonna do is promote one of your shows to my audience. What's one of your more favorite shows recently? Noah. P.S., no strings attached. And there literally wasn't. It wasn't like, oh, if they get me, then I'll have this email sequence to do another thing. There's no string attached. Then people were like, So 2 things happened outta that. One, it's actually built really good relationships. Like Rich Roll, I guess, is a popular guy now.

Yeah.

Me and him are talking.

Yeah.

And I just helped them and promoted their stuff. And now they're actually like, hey, do you wanna come on the show? I was like, that's cool. I wasn't like, there really wasn't a string attached to that. But it was an interesting reminder. And it is an experiment of literally like all I did was give without an expectation. 'Cause people do that nowadays. Like, Hey, I did this for you. Now go do this for me. I'm like, no. So just doing that genuinely was an interesting thing about how to— if you want to go meet people, go help them unconditionally. And there's a good chance that you'll probably end up building some type of relationship with them.

Huge. There's so many nuggets in there. I mean, there's just like a flurry of nuggets. So final question for you. Is there anything else you'd like to add for any aspiring entrepreneurs or current entrepreneurs?

Okay, a few different things. Number 1, learn how to type faster. Number two, increase your track speed. Number three, remove Facebook and Twitter from your phone. There's no point to them, right? Number four, remove email from your phone. There's nothing that urgent. So I don't have email on my phone. So if you email me, I can't check until I get to a computer. Because realize what I realized is that we're not like someone said this to me recently. I thought it was so fascinating. We used to get online to like escape. Now we have to get offline to escape.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, when did it happen? So anyways, remove a lot of the things that are distracting you, because I think the people who are gonna win in the future are the ones who can focus longer than 15 seconds.

Mm-hmm.

And if you can actually stay committed to focusing on something and working on something, you'll get results. Lastly, I mean, there's probably a bunch of other things, but I'd say the last thing is like, go limit your amount of time that you're doing something, and that will likely increase your creativity. I think most people, as they're doing something, they're like, oh, I'm gonna try to do this in 6 months, or in 12 months, or in 2 years. It's not to say that you can't build something big, But like Tesla, where they are today, it's 'cause they started out with that, the Roadster. And Apple started out with like the iPod, which was shitty, and now they've evolved that. So how can you do something, whatever you're thinking about doing, within this weekend? And I think that's been part of my ethos or style or success that's led me to good things, 'cause I get it done, I see what works and doesn't work, and then I can evolve it to something great.

There you go. Parkinson's Law. Also, Noah's done something on the Tim Ferriss blog a long time ago about how to build a million-dollar business. in a weekend. So check that out. But Noah, thanks so much for doing this.

All right, bro. Thank you. Namaste, everyone.

So after visiting the Sumo offices today and getting to hang out with Noah, I learned a couple of things. Probably the biggest thing is that he's very goal-oriented. He's very process-oriented as well. So a couple of examples, right? He talked about how when it comes to working out, when it comes to work, he has very specific goals for the year. So he wants to go to Utah, for example, or he wants to do 1,000 push-ups. He wants to bike up a mountain. Whatever it is exactly, he's very, very targeted and process-oriented about it. Same thing with how he holds people accountable at the company. He gives people a goal and then he tracks if people are on track or not. It's very simple at the end of the day, but people aren't able to— I think people aren't able to simplify these things because people overcomplicate things. So if you look at how AppSumo, how he created it and then handed it off, and then now you look at Sumo and how he has very specific goals for it, And it's the same thing, right? He has a playbook and he has a template that he follows for himself and he follows it for his businesses as well. So if you can create a playbook for yourself, if you find something that works for yourself personally, can you make it into something that applies to your business as well? If you're looking to create a business or you have a business already, that's my key takeaway for you. And there's a lot of other nuggets that he left in that. I encourage you to probably re-listen to this a couple of times and you'll get a helpful nugget. Each and every time. So that's it for today. That's all I got for you. And we'll catch you in the next video.

People spend a third of their life here. You wanna create an environment that people actually want to come to. Like, I think parts of it, some people come to like, oh, we have to actually do work?