Is This the Best Vibe Coding Design App?

But by the way, so you know how you and I, like, we still do marketing, we still do CRO on our websites, right? So when you do CRO on your website right now, like, are you using like Figma to like take a snapshot of a page and then comment on what you want changed? Like, how do you do it right now?

The whole process or just the design?

Just the beginning. It's like, I want this changed. And are you proto— how are you prototyping it right now?

So my buddy Gajan from Spiralize, He takes a snapshot of any website on the internet that's running an A/B test.

Yeah.

So if I want to run an A/B test, the first thing I do is I go to him and I'm like, yo dude, I need data. What's the winning versions for anything in my industry? And he'll feed it to me. And then I take that and then I'll take the current version and then I'll go and I'll leave edits based on what's won on previous tests. And when I say he takes snapshots, Let's say there's 100 B2B SaaS companies and I have a SaaS product. I'm making this up even though I do have a SaaS product and there's 100 in my space. He'll go and take a snapshot of every single one that's running a testing script, Optimizely, VWO, Crazy Egg, you get the point. And then they pinpoint which version became default after the test was over. So they'll do that for many different websites so they can see what tends to be the winning variation versus the variation.

You should have that as a product.

Yeah, he should. He'd probably make more money selling that as a product. And then we will then take the data on what's winning and then use that data to then go and adjust what we're doing on our website.

But the key thing, so you just mentioned after you have that data, so after, okay, you've got it, like, how are you communicating these changes? How are you prototyping these changes to send to your team?

Figma.

Okay.

It's all comments.

Great. Get this. So you, okay. Remember, like, If you want to prototype something, you might've had to use Figma. You might've had to like wireframe stuff using Balsamiq in the past, right? So now there's an app, like I know we've mentioned not to use a bunch of AI tools, but, but, but here's another one. Here's, here's actually an amazing app that helps you prototype because you, with a lot of AI prototyping stuff, it like will give you like an AI, like version, AI looking like computerized version of like a landing page, right? If you wanted to maintain consistency for your site, if so, if I went to mpdigital.com right now and I did a snapshot, I can literally type in natural language. I want these changes made right now. Plus I can like loop in screenshots from other tests that you've seen, and literally it'll make the changes to that page. You can send it to your developer. That takes you like 2 to 3 minutes to do, and you get the changes up a lot faster. And that's exactly what you want versus before Figma comments, comments, comments, this and that, back and forth, this and that. Don't need to do that anymore.

So we, we don't do the comments back and forth on Figma.

Oh, it's just.

It's just me saying—

My comments do this.

My comments do this. And I would probably still use the same process that we use right now instead of the tool. Because for me, I know you're saying 2, 3 minutes. I get it was an exaggeration, but it's quick. It's faster for me to just be like, here's the screenshots, implement these in these areas, and that's it. And then my team though should use that software that you're just mentioning to whip out the version and showcase it to me. Because I think for me, I'm not trying to sound arrogant, bad use of my time to do all of that versus just saying, just go make these quick changes.

I'm not exaggerating, 2 to 3 minutes. I'll show it to you later. Maybe your team should use it, but I'm saying, I get it. Yes, your time is very valuable. You should be focused on higher leverage, but conversion rate is a very high leverage thing, right?

Yeah, and this is high leverage.

I'm not exaggerating, 2 to 3 minutes and that's it. For me, Getting Things Done, that book, right? It's like, if it takes 2 minutes, you just do it yourself. And so, not do it yourself, Yeah, I agree with that.

What's this software called?

Alloy.app, A-L-L-O-Y dot A-P-P.

Okay, I'm going to check it out and I'll let you know what happens after I test it. Here's my big fear, and this is why I haven't used a lot of AI apps for these kind of tasks. I put it in and I tell it to make a mockup with my design guidelines, and I'm assuming I can upload the design style guidelines and the color scheme and all that.

Dude, just freaking, I was about to use the F word, but like, this is how much I love it. You literally take a screenshot of whatever page it is, it'll capture it, and then you just say whatever you want to change. And then you can, if you like to pull the spiralized examples, like 1 or 2 examples, just upload it. And then just say, ask me any clarifying questions, and then boom, like it's done. And I was like, the first time that happened, I was like, whoa, like, 'cause Jason Lemkin mentioned it on X, right? He's like, this is the best thing. I'm like, this can't be that good, right? I used it, I was like, it's pretty good. Yeah.

I'm testing it, but here's my fear going back to it is, I'm afraid that I spend the 2, 3 minutes and it doesn't get it the way I want and I can't send it to a developer and I'm going to have to keep spending 2, 3 minutes 5, 10 times. And that's why it's just easier for me to just leave some text-based comments.

I changed my homepage, right? So you can see my homepage here. I added this average ROI thing and then these like 3 checkmarks over here and I changed this quote over here and I asked the video to be changed and we changed the logos down here, right?

Yeah, let me check it out.

That it maintained the style of the brand. It didn't like add a bunch of like random things that I needed to, you know, rekindle, spec out.

So for these kind of changes, I get it, but I don't use Figma for these kind of changes. I would just pick up the phone and talk to you.

Yeah, you're talking about something significant.

Yeah, like doing a whole new redesign based on a new flow.

That's different. I'm talking about minor things like this.

Yeah, minor things.

No, no, actually, no, you can do this for prototyping products too.

So like, I don't have an example of our old homepage, but if I show you my new homepage, I want to make sure I'm not blocking your camera. Yeah, you're right here. No, I know I'm talking about your camera.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. I ended up doing, we figured out logos on the left, which logos we wanted, checkboxes, what happens after they put the checkboxes. We wanted the awards right underneath after that. We wanted to change the next section to creative. We then wanted to reduce— introduce a map with all our locations. And then we wanted to introduce a case study section, which we're redoing right now. Then we wanted to introduce a job section, but most of the page, the layout has changed where it was more so a redesign where—

Oh, you have an RFP button now. That's great.

Yeah, we have an RFP button. And I can tell you what happened with the RFP button, but the point I was getting with this redesign, I was able to get my team, we were able to get alignment in less than 10 minutes on everything that wanted to be changed. Um, I don't think I, we could have brainstormed and figured that all out in an app in less than 10 minutes.

No, if you got that done in 10 minutes, that's still more efficient.

But not the design, by the way. That's me getting my site done. I don't know how long it took.

If your site is only 10 minutes, I would just stick with that. But, um, prototyping like apps and things like that, like, you know, prototyping apps.

Yes. If it's like brand new, I actually do love using AI. And the reason being is I'm now speaking with a visual. And then it helps our product team go out there and figure out how to build on something.

So, okay, if you wanted to build on Ubersuggest, for example, you would just take a screenshot of like the design of like the different Ubersuggest screens.

We already do that with AI right now. And using what? And then we send it. I don't know, Kyle on my end does it.

Yeah, so this would plug into that because like whatever changes you want to make to screens and all that, this is where you'd be using it. But if you have something for it, then it's fine.

I wonder if he texted me the screenshot. Yeah, let's see. I can show you it. No, my text messages delete after 30 days. But he would text me changes. He's like, what do you think of this? And he'll do it in AI and then if it's good, we'll then send it to the team and explain through that visual what we want done and they'll go and tweak it. It's never looking exactly the same. They polish it up more, but that was useful. Going back to the RFP button, you want to know how that's working out?

Yeah, yeah.

So the thesis behind the RFPs is We're an enterprise shop. We do SMB work as well. We do mid-market as well. So we do all ends of the spectrum, but we've been going more and more upstream and even more and more upstream for SMBs. So instead of working with an individual business, we would work with an individual business with 300 locations or 500 locations. So you're getting the money in quantity. So even though each individual business isn't much—

It adds up.

adds up because the franchise may say, hey, we're only giving you $5,000 a month for the business. Well, it's just like, wait, you have 200 locations. That adds up to a pretty penny on a monthly basis. So those kind of deals, and they don't always pay 5 grand, but even if it was 2 grand, you know, with 200 locations, whatever, it adds up pretty fast.

Yep.

And what we found is we're like, you know what? Most RFPs, when they decide to include you in an RFP, they're not going to go to your website and click an RFP button. They've already decided at that point that they want to include you in an RFP. All right. We still wanted the RFP button so that way when people browse our website, they know we have, we accept RFPs. So they're more likely to include us. I don't have any data on that yet. Yeah.

Because you just launched it.

It's been live for like maybe a month and a half. Yeah.

But NP Digital, the website, your web, that website doesn't get as much, nearly as much traffic as your main website. Your personal brand.

It drives more revenue than the Neil Patel website.

Well, I'm sure it does, but like I'm talking about web traffic to NP Digital.

Yeah, I don't know how much, it doesn't. My guess is from Google Search Console, my guess is just from search alone, NP Digital, what is, 30,923, that was last 3 months. So from search, we're getting, call it, if I look at the last 28 days, 8,680 clicks from search.

Wait, 800 what? 800,000?

No, sorry, 8.68. So 8,680—

To npdigital.com.

To npdigital from—

But it's very qualified traffic.

Very qualified. You want to guess what our number 1 query is?

Neil Patel? No.

NP space digital. You want to guess what our number 2 query is?

NP digital, not spaced?

Yeah. You want to guess what our number 3 query is?

NP digital marketing?

No. Neil Patel digital.

Okay.

Those are the top 3. NP digital without a space.

Wait, what percent? What percent? Like how much traffic is that?

I wish they gave the percentage. Ah, I don't know. That's average click-through rate. Okay. NP Digital makes up 3,032 with space. Without a space is another 525. So the brand name, that's just the direct variation of that, is 3,500 of the 8,608. The Neil Patel Digital, only 141 clicks a month. So, and that is not, that's the 3rd most popular keyword.

How are you logging in so quickly to your Search Console?

I'm already logged into Google.

Oh, here.

So you just go to—

I'm going to look at Single Grain. So while we talk about that, I think we should, while I pull this up, we should talk about how to make more money with podcasting. So this is interesting. I was, this guy I know, Sean, he has a company called ridge.com and he has a podcast called The 9 Operators, which is 9-figure e-commerce operators, right? There's a handful of them, like 4 operators on that podcast, which is interesting because there's a SaaS Operators one that came out. But in my mind, this is like an agency operator's one.

Yeah.

But anyway, Sean tweets this like 2 days ago. He's like, yeah, you know, we make 7 figures a year. They have like 3 or 4 podcasts, but I don't think they get like a ton of downloads and like a good amount, right? I think you have very smart people listening to it. So it's a good podcast. And I was like, man, like how is that happening? 'Cause that ain't what we're getting, right? So then I spoke to a podcast, let's say a podcast advertiser. He manages a couple brands and I was like, okay, how much should we be making basically? He's like, yeah, you guys should be making way more. And I think for us, we want to have a situation. So the way the 9 operators do it is they just have like a couple of prerecorded mid-rolls and pre-rolls and that's it, right? You and I are down to do that. But if you asked me to do like, I have to do separate recordings for this and that, I have to make a show and this, like we need to focus on operating our business, right?

Yes.

And so all that to say is that, you know, we have a podcast partner right now and I think it's fine, but, you know, we want to see what we can do to amp it up when it comes to driving more revenue. And I think the way to make more money from podcast advertising, sometimes you just go direct to some of these companies.

I agree. Someone hit us up direct the other day on— I added you on the WhatsApp thread.

Yeah.

And it was really simple. They're like, okay, this and that.

It's 2 actually. There's someone else. There's another one. I didn't loop you in on this one, but like, oh yeah, okay, well we'll do this. And it's a similar deal structure to the one you mentioned.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't, I don't like doing these one-offs because here's the thing, and we can move on from this, but like there are sponsors, like people do ask me, it's like, how do you get LinkedIn? How do you get Shopify? We do get LinkedIn. We do get Shopify and they do keep renewing, but somehow, somehow we're very poor.

Yeah. Where's the check? Yeah.

So I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. And we're not saying they don't pay. We're not insinuating that.

No, no, no. We're, we're, we're saying that they do pay.

And we're not saying Eric or I are stealing the money.

No, but we would like to get paid more.

Yes. Yeah. So what's the traffic on Single Grain?

Okay, so we're looking at last 28 days, right?

Yeah. Mine for some reason ends on October 19th, even though today's the 24th.

Last 28 days. Okay, so my traffic is only 16,400 now for organic.

Wait, wait, wait, but when was your last update date?

Was it October 19th? 10 hours ago.

Yeah, no, no, but look at the chart. Mine says October 19th.

Mine says, this is 28 days, right?

Yeah.

Last update is October 19th, correct?

Yeah, that means they need to update on their end.

Okay, so we are looking at what? We're looking at queries and click-through rate, right?

Yeah, so you're at how many thousands of visitors? 16,000?

16,000 last 28 days. Okay, so Single Grain's number 1 with 1,200, 47% click-through rate, okay?

Single Grain with no space or a space?

With space, yeah.

Okay.

And then after that, it's like, you know, 2, 3, 4 are like these AI tools that we built, but 5 is Single Grain, no space. 142 clicks, 72% click-through rate.

Yeah.

Got it.

Yeah.

So that's what we look like. You said yours is what, like 3,000?

When I, I just combine both. So when I combine Single Grain, I mean NP Digital, NP Digital, no space, Neil Patel Digital, because I assume they're all the same company name. Yep. We're at roughly 3,600 and change.

Cool. So mine's at 1,300 and with the high click-through rate, I have to assume that They did intend to click a digital marketing agency page.

So. My click-through rate should be higher. NP Digital is 61.8%. It's 70.9% for No Space, 12.7% for Neil Patel Digital.

Yeah. Okay.

Because I'm assuming because my name is in there.

If I add these other ones, 15, 1.5, 1.6, but your brand name gets a lot of traffic.

What's your click-through rate at Single Grain?

The highest one?

Uh-huh.

47%. Second one is 72%.

72 is no space, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, I figured. Same with mine. My no space is 70%. My other one is 61.8%. The reason Eric's click-through rate is lower is because single grain could mean multiple things.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. But it does say clearly when you click, before you click it, it's a digital marketing agency. So I think they actually do understand what they're clicking because single grain is actually malt whiskey. People search for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I do think they're clicking the right thing.

And also, uh, you have quite a few people advertising on your name. I don't know if you saw that. No.

Yeah. But that's, that's normal. Oh, you guys don't allow it?

We run ads on our own name.

Yeah. We, we, when we looked at it a while back, it was expensive. So we had already basically—

No, it becomes really cheap for your own brand name. Try running it.

After you come in?

Yeah, after you come in, it goes down.

Oh, I didn't know that.

We usually say, because your click-through rate's really high.

Yeah.

They're looking for you in the first place, so it tends to be pretty affordable.

If you're in B2B, here's the deal. LinkedIn account-based marketing sucks, but it doesn't have to. With Carrot, it allows you to create personalized ads towards your customers and also personalized landing pages that align with the ads. So you're going to have higher conversions and influence pipeline reporting to prove that your ABM works. So if you want to learn more, just go to karrot.ai and you can join the waitlist. Again, it's karrot, K-A-R-R-O-T.ai, and we'll see you on the other side. Speaking of SEO, so Matt Diggity tweeted this. It says, your SEO strategy is missing 41% of potential customers. So basically 41% of Gen Z uses this marketing channel first. Which one do you think it is?

41% use this marketing channel?

41% of Gen Z, they use this marketing channel first.

TikTok.

Yeah, so it is scrolling Reddit, ChatGPT, and trusting TikTok recommendations. So this is Sprout Social's Q2 2025 survey. So only 32% still use Google, 41% of Gen Z now uses social platforms first. And so that's the shift that's happening, whether it's like looking at, you know, Reddit or YouTube, checking reviews on Amazon, ChatGPT for alternatives. So Google, 32%, still big, but You know, as marketers, we have to adapt because here's the thing, like, you know, when you and I, like, let's say we're speaking at SEO conferences, SEOs like to stay just in one area. You've got to branch out at this point.

Yes. Yeah. Uh, yeah, dude, you should, uh, seriously, if I would go back, you should go run ads on your own brand name.

Let me see yours here. You can pick the next topic.

I'm just going to— I don't see ads right now for mine.

Yeah.

I don't know what software we use, but when we see other ads and it turns on and when there are no other ads, it turns off.

So we're not burning money. What are you using for that?

I don't know, but just text me and I'll find out from my team.

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to text you and text you right now.

It saves us quite a bit of money. It saves our clients a lot of money too.

I would like that.

Because you don't want to bid on your own name when there's no one else bidding. You want to bid when there's someone else bidding.

Brand name bidding software.

Okay, there we go. I'll find out from the team.

Cool.

But we've been using that for years. It saved us a— it saved a lot of our clients money too. Yep.

Oh, this is interesting. So Neil, when I search your thing, number 3 is You got some Reddit posts up here.

For NP Digital?

Uh-huh.

NP Digital, I haven't seen.

Dude, yeah. Let's get a community manager on that.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

It says, something tells me I don't want to work here. Eric's too nice to say it.

That's not for me to say.

Yeah, they recently landed an interview. Um, but that was nice of him for not saying, but I didn't mind just saying it. Um, but yeah, dude.

But by the way, I mean, what you would do there is very simple. You would jump in yourself and respond. And oh, but Reddit's going to hate me if I respond. Why? It's an authentic response.

I'm telling you, I've responded on Reddit before. They hate me.

Well, if it's the same SEO community, then yeah, probably.

Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, so I'm going to, I'm going to pick the next one. So you can pick.

Here's an interesting fact. All right. They're telling me they don't want to end up working here. They've been doing pay-per-click, yada yada yada. I actually have this recent stat. Do you know what our churn rate is on pay-per-click clients?

Per year? Yeah. 10%?

Nope, 7%.

It was close.

It was close, but 7% is really good churn.

Yeah.

That means we do good work with—

Your clients.

With pay-per-click.

Yeah.

So I know some people aren't, may not be happy when they interview with us because they don't get a job or whatnot, but that means the average client on pay-per-click lasts 14.28 years. We haven't been in business that long, but it's around 7%.

Yeah, but that's, by the way, this reinforces again, when I talk to people more and more, all the AI stuff we're talking about, it means you have to make it harder and harder to join your company. And the way we set expectations, by the way, we interviewed a couple of people for YouTube Stripes. So what are you paying for AI right now? Oh yeah, I just don't know. I borrow other people's stuff. Not good enough. Okay. What's the most impressive thing that you've done? Yesterday we talked to somebody. This is the final stage of an SEO interview. What's the most impressive thing you've done with SEO? Well, with CRO, I did this.

Wait, what?

Right?

So yeah.

Anyway, guys, that's it for today. Please don't forget to rate, review, subscribe, and we'll see you tomorrow. Bye.