Jev Is A MASSIVE Deal for Marketers

So, um, Neil, I want to pull this up for you real quick just to give also you some ideas for how your team can, can use this whole Jev thing. Have you, have you heard about Jev yet or no?

Yeah, you told me about it.

Oh, I did? I don't even remember. Okay, so here, let me show you some Jev use cases here. All right, you see my screen?

Uh-huh.

Okay, just, just so you guys can see the screenshot here, this is Doodoo. Okay, so Doodoo is working, and then it's, uh—

Do you want to explain what Doodoo is? Because people, if they didn't listen to the last episode, they won't know.

Yeah, Doodoo is my MetaMuse bot, okay? And it looks like this, and this is just the MetaMuse icon, actually. So earlier I had mentioned that I wanted to classify. So I have about 116,000 followers on Instagram. And so I was like, hey, I want you to do a call and see who's actually influential and who's a founder, who's an investor, who's an entrepreneur, just like who's in travel, who's in hospitality and all this stuff, right? To see if we can somehow collab or whatever. So Jev said, hey, this will cost 116,000 stage 1 calls at $2.34, and they would do another run, which total would be $3.35, right? So what am I showing you here? What Jev is, just to back up a second, is Jev is a classifier. Okay? So when you have, let's say, Neil, you have like 1,000 people apply to work at NP Digital. Do you want to sort through all those people? And even if you had a human sort through all those people, it wouldn't be that accurate, right? It would just, one, it would take forever. 2, it wouldn't be that accurate because at a certain point as a human, like, I would just start to try to game it, right? Because I don't want to review all of them. What Jev can do is it can say, oh, oh, uh, you know, let's only talk to people, let's only shortlist people that have 2 promotions at 2 different companies and have an average, uh, you know, 3-year tenure for mid-senior level people. Or you can just say what I said earlier, like, hey, have Jev scan all the people who follow you on Instagram— founders, investors, influencers, recruits. Hell, even use it for people that you want to date. Maybe there's someone really interesting that follows you based on the values that you have. You could have Jev classify that for you, right? You could have it scan all the stuff that you bookmark on Instagram and scrape all the hooks to offers and creatives that they use. You can use Jev to scan all of your external content to determine your best content spikes, then draft the best, then have Jev evaluate the content quality, enforce content guidelines, and avoid duplicate content. So to me, this is a major unlock from a quality AEO SEO Scaling standpoint, right? Because the problem with AI is like, if you're just creating a bunch of slop, you're not actually comparing it to what you've already published and what your quality guidelines are, right? So that's a big deal to me, especially considering, Neil, we spend all this time creating this content, right? We already did this before. Hours and hours a week we spend time creating this content, but we're not maximizing this. This can help us maximize it, right? Scan all your customer calls for case studies, objections, churn risks, et cetera, right? And I mentioned this earlier, just scan all inbound and outbound recruits, run them through your talent evals to shortlist people at lightning fast speed. So anyway, that's the power of this.

Have you ever used Muse to connect to your email and start sending out emails for you?

Yeah.

So I've been doing it with all of our M&A deals, because if I look at almost every single M&A deal that we've done, it tends to be deals that we've talked to 2, 3 years ago. We couldn't get a valuation that made sense for us back then. And then 2, 3 years later, they accept the valuation terms that we're willing to offer. And I don't blame people for this. Every entrepreneur believes in their company, and if they have a bad year, they can fix it, and the next year is going to be super amazing. And they did all these things. As an entrepreneur, if you don't drink your own Kool-Aid, I don't know if you're meant to be an entrepreneur. I hate to say that, but it is true. You really need to have some sort of delusion.

It's called naive optimism, Neil.

There you go. And I like people who have naive optimism. So I had an issue in which— this is just me, I'm not saying I'm right or wrong— I never really trusted Anthropic and OpenAI. I still don't, like I trust a Facebook, a Microsoft, a Google. I'm not saying some companies do evil things and others don't. Just for me, like Meta was in a lawsuit for child stuff. I know the settlement was in 11 digits, so over $10 billion or something like that. I think it was— I know it was under $20 billion. It was $16, $18, $14 something. And I know there was some caveat if they can get some of the other platforms to join along and make the changes, the settlement's cheaper for them, whatever it may be. Either way, it was a lot of money. I trust Facebook more with my data and Google more with my data and Microsoft more with my data and even Amazon than I do with a lot of these up-and-coming startups, even though OpenAI and Anthropic aren't really startups from a valuation perspective. I just don't trust them with data. This is just me personally, like I trust Facebook. Facebook being a publicly traded company, there's more regulation, it's global, they're going to get their butts sued if they do some funny business. And I'm okay willing to take that risk with Facebook, but I'm not willing to take that risk with OpenAI or Anthropic. Definitely not like a DeepSeek or anything like that, but I will for Microsoft, Facebook, Google, and Amazon. But this is just my personal 2 cents. I don't know how you feel with that.

So wait, were we talking about trust? I'm trying to figure out where you're trying to go with that.

No, like I'm now having it do a lot of my follow-up emails and I'm getting a lot of responses from it. So it's actually working out well, but I'm able to do so much more with AI these days than I was months ago due to the fact that I trust Facebook and I'm allowing it more access than I would with the other, you know, AI platforms out there. But that's just me.

That's fair.

I trust Nvidia. If Nvidia wants to do something and get access to my data, I don't have an issue with that. But for some reason, with Anthropic and OpenAI, I can't. On the flip side, if Grok wanted access, I also trust him for some reason. And I'm not saying Elon's better or worse than any of those people, has nothing to do with it. It's just For me, corporate trust. Apple's another one. I would actually put Apple at the top of the list. If Apple had a muse, I would let it have access to my bank account. Straight up. I wouldn't be worried about it if it was Apple. I wouldn't trust Facebook with my bank account though.

All right, so I wanted to take a moment to tell you about my podcast co-host Neil's agency called NP Digital. And they work with a whole host of global companies or global organizations. Also, Neil has SEO tools such as Ubersuggest. and answer to public. All you have to do is go to npdigital.com to learn more, and we'll see you on the other side. So let me make a prediction here. Okay, so all of these— Google, Apple— they will all have their own version of Muse. Because remember back in the day, Neil, when I was talking about earlier this year, when I was talking about OpenCLAW and Hermes, this is just OpenCLAW and Hermes. In fact, the Muse architecture is built off of the OpenCLAW architecture, right? Like a lot of the ideas, like they call it like a soul.md file and all that. So Here's the thing, and there's no right or wrong here, right? Like, remember guys, early days, I was like January, I was on OpenClaw already, right? And then Hermes came out and I was on Hermes, right? And so it's not saying that there's a right or wrong here because there are no solutions, only trade-offs, right? So the trade-off here is if you use Hermes and OpenClaw early, you're taking a lot more risk because you're setting it up yourself and you don't know what's going to happen. It could delete all your stuff, right? And I've seen that happen, but that was a risk that I was willing to accept, right? It was the uncertainty piece that we're talking about a little earlier, right? Yeah. Now with Muse and GrokBot, you have a lot more certainty, and I think people should certainly be using both Muse and GrokBot because I'm just using both those now and just getting stuff done. And the funny thing is, Neil, we had a conversation earlier this week talking about M&A, right? Almost a lot of the stuff that we talked about, I built it in, and I'm having Jev just classify, um, you know, M&A deals that I, that I might be potentially looking for. But keep in mind, Neil has some different patterns that he's talking about here where he's like, hey, what he typically sees is like for his deal sizes, usually he's not going to get a deal done for 2 to 3 years. So he can observe and he can probably make lookalikes off of that using Jev. And so the world is his oyster now by having a GrokBot and a Muse plus a Jev to classify everything. And you know, all I do, Neil, when I wake up, I have anxiety. You know why? Because I don't want to talk to anybody yet. I need to get the agents going first and then I'm good for the rest of the day. I just need to make sure they get everything they need because I know they're reliable and they just get shit done now. Pardon my language. I still use Hermes, just not as much anymore, but GrokBot and Muse, man, and like Once Google comes online, Apple comes online, I'm just gonna be on those things all day. And you're probably gonna need like a super meta agent managing all of those.

Dude, I didn't tell you, I didn't tell you this. So if I'm not mistaken, OpenCLAW did a deal with OpenAI, right? And I actually forgot about OpenCLAW. Like literally I forgot about it until you just mentioned it. But yeah, Muse is pretty much alternative to it, right? Like when I thought about Muse, it never hit me about OpenCLAW. Um, but there was something interesting that I interacted with yesterday. So I was at Social Next, which was a conference in Vancouver yesterday. Okay. And you saw a lot of startups, you saw a lot of mid-sized businesses, even some enterprise businesses. Someone came up to me and they were complaining about someone on their marketing team. Someone on their marketing team was selling— this company is a large company. They're also based out of San Francisco, but they have offices throughout most of the parts of the world. And they were complaining to me how they were using AI to help them manage their ads. Okay. And the AI spent $100,000, I think they said $112,000 Canadian. So I don't know what that is in USD, call it like $75,000, $78,000 USD. I'm rounding here. And it only brought in $3,000 to $4,000 Canadian dollars in revenue. So call it, Let's just call it $3,000 USD. Okay. I know it's probably a little bit less than that, $2,000 something, but either way, they were blaming the AI for this. Like, no joke. They were blaming AI for their failed ad campaign and they were pissed and they had an internal meeting. They told me he met up with his boss and they were discussing what AI solutions they should use instead because it messed up. And he said, what would you do? And I said, do you want my honest answer? I don't want to come off as rude. Or do you want me to just sugarcoat it? I'm like, what do you want? He's like, no, I want the real answer. I'm like, I would've written you up and potentially fired you. And he's like, why? I didn't mess up, the AI messed up. I'm like, no, you're the one who told the AI to manage the campaigns. You set it up, it's your responsibility. No one held a gun to your head and said you have to use AI to help you do this. You could've done it manually. And no one said you shouldn't use AI, but if you're in charge of it and You didn't keep track of it because I said, in reality, when did you check the campaign to see if it was performing? He's like, after we spent over $100,000. I'm like, that's the problem. You could have checked the first day, the second day, third day. I'm like, how many days did it go? And he said, it went for roughly 40 days. I'm like, this is your problem. You didn't supervise it. You didn't check. I'm not saying AI is good or bad. You could have caught it early on enough and realized there's something wrong. But you decided not to pay attention. This is your fault. It's not, hey, how do we, uh, what AI system should we use instead in the future? It's how'd you use the AI and why did it do it wrong? What inputs did you give? What instructions did you give? And I'm like, this is all the person who's behind the technology. And I'm like, this is the problem. I'm like, you either need to learn how to use it right, or you need to go into a different role. Or don't use the technology at all and do it manually.

I'm actually curious, how did they react to that?

They went from, they first asked me for advice and a picture to they got my advice and they walked away.

Yeah. So it went from, they were so excited to meet you, get a picture to, hey, I would fire you. Yeah.

Well, I told them the truth. Like, I'm just being honest. I wasn't trying to be mean to them. Like, I know I sounded mean at that moment. But if I tell them a bullshit answer like, yeah, dude, the AI is wrong, I hate to say they're not going to learn and improve in their life. I think I gave them the right response for them to improve as an individual and do better in the workforce. I think it would be a disservice if I lied to them and be like, give them a pat on the back, it's all right, dude, next time. You know, I'm like, no. And this is a billion-plus-dollar organization, not in market cap, I'm talking about in revenue. They're much more than a billion dollars. But of course their boss is pissed off and I would be pissed off too and I would fire the person.

Yep, because you know what? It's the boss's fault now.

It is the boss's fault. The boss looks bad.

Yep, and then guess what? It rolls all the way up to the CEO for permitting the boss to make a hire like that and to tolerate. So everything kind of goes up, right?

Eric is right. Normally, yes, but at this size of organization, when someone does like $6, $7 billion in revenue, it's too small to roll up to the CEO, but Either way, they're looking bad.

Yeah, well, I'm just saying that everything that happens is because of the CEO's decisions downstream.

Yes, you're totally right. So even though it doesn't roll up to the CEO, the CEO put this mindset in an organization— use AI. And this is why they were all AI forward and AI pill, like, yeah, use it, we're all AI pill, look how much we do with AI. Being AI pill does not mean you're actually creating good outputs. It just means you're using AI heavily and you're all about AI, but it doesn't actually mean you're effective and productive with AI. There's a lot of people who use AI and actually get less done, or sorry, they get more done in a day, but they produce less results because they're working on crap that has nothing to do with their main KPIs. But it does start with the top because that came from there. But I still don't blame the top. The top never said, don't check your work until 40 days later.

So this goes back to the same thing I was mentioning earlier in this podcast, right? Even though I pushed the AI nativeness at my company, I'm finding I'm spending more time today talking about things like slop cannons and slop grenades, right? And having to create workflows to kind of fix that. And the good thing is, by the way, I can have Jev again, here comes Jev again, I can evaluate all these things before I have to review it. And by the way, if it keeps calling out the same people over and over, that's not a good thing, right? And so the one thing, the other thing I've been saying, Neil, is think about this. Let me ask you a question here, right? If you apply leverage to a poor real estate investment, Yeah. What happens?

You owe the bank money and then you're screwed.

Yeah. But if you apply leverage to a good real estate investment, what happens?

You make more money because you can keep taking your money, reinvesting it, and compounding.

And Neil knows where I'm going with this. AI is ultimately just leverage, right? Leverage is something that you apply to something, whether it's like a good investment or you apply— if something's good, it amplifies, it makes it bigger, right? Just like we talk about intelligence. But if you apply to something where it's not that good, it gets even bigger, right? And so that's why it's— Neil and I have been talking on the phone about this, but it does put a spotlight on people. And so here's what I'll say. I've been like going back to my YouTube channel as an example, right? My click-through rates before were like 3.5%, 4% on a YouTube video. Not good, right? Now they're like 7%, 8%, which is double the click-through rate, which is like 100 people see it, you know, 4 people might click. Now it's up to like 7 or 8 people, right? Which is great. Yeah. Great. But going back to what Neil said, it's applying, spending the time. Like when I have my little AI skills create these thumbnails, the first pass doesn't work, the second pass doesn't work. Sometimes I need to go to the third or fourth pass. Well, I might spend 5 to 10 minutes, but the performance is a lot better. And I'd rather spend that time than kind of just like waiting for the work to be done, right? So my point of saying all this is that sure, use AI, But at the same time, you can't just sit and not do anything, right? Which is kind of what happens, is happening right now when I look at my brand team and they're kind of like, they're kind of trying to figure out what to do. But also if your boss comes in and kind of does it for you and then hands it over to you and you're still not doing anything with it, that's also not good too. So.

Dude, someone pitched me on an interesting real estate deal 2 weeks ago. I met up with them on the rooftop, you know, Waldorf, which is actually right across the street from you, I believe. And this person had $80 million worth of real estate that they bought back in the day. It was all office buildings. They paid quite a bit of it down, then they did a refinance, and they're in cities where people are starting to go more virtual and not show up. So maybe they paid a little bit more than $80 or a little bit less. I forgot what the exact number is, but I know they were trying to sell it to me for exactly $80 million because that was the loan amount. Right? And they're like, hey, will you just take over the paper? And I knew I could refinance some stuff and I can get some cheaper rates than what they were getting. And this person—

Wait, where is it?

Quite a bit was in Cleveland, Ohio. There was some in Cincinnati, there were some in Philadelphia. So they were scattered more on the East Coast, but it was just commercial office buildings and their occupancy rate was just terrible. But the buildings were in really good condition and they didn't need to be renovated or anything like that. So they were just like, hey, You know, you wanted tax deductions. We can get you bonus appreciation. You should just take over this property. And I'm like, you guys just pulled out a ton of money in less than 12 months. Your occupancy rate keeps going lower. I'm like, I'll buy it from you for the price before you pulled out all the money and just, you know, you have to put in. They're like, no, why would we do that? I'm like, okay, then you keep it. And I can see now I got hit up again. They're like, hey, are you a little bit more flexible on the deal? The buyer's willing to, Are the sellers willing to make some concessions? And I'm like, no crap. I'm like, you put leverage on something that's terrible, you still got a turd. It doesn't matter. And I'm like, who wants to end up dealing with that?

Yeah. And what Neil was saying is that if it's a turd and you polish it and you put leverage, you make it a more powerful turd. It's still a powerful turd, right?

Yeah.

It's a turd that's on fire. Yeah. It just smells even more now. Right. So that's what it is. And by the way, the reason I asked Neil where the location was, because look, If it was, the terms were good and it was like in Florida, for example, maybe Florida's not a good example, but let's say New York, for example, right? New York, like their real estate's going to be good. Uh, Florida, like most of the people are coming into the office, I believe, but you know, it's a little more chill vibe, but you have hurricanes coming in and out. So, um, you know, I think it just depends on the location too. So, but like a lot of the terms that like location is part of the, I see it as part of the deal.

So. Dude, he's spot on. But yeah, it's, you know, when you're creating a business or you're marketing, location, location, location.

Yep.

Hard to fail. Hard to mess with.

All right. Well, anyway, guys, that's it for today and we will see you tomorrow.