Proven Tactics for Closing Leads as a Marketing Agency

All right, so we have a little treat for you. So this is a coaching call from the Agency Owners Association. This is a group that Neil and I have for agency owners to help you grow faster. So if you're in the agency space, you are a services business, this is applicable to you. It's a little preview of a call. It's probably 10, 15 minutes or so, and you get a sense for what it looks like to be in the group. If you want to learn more about the group, you can go to marketingschool.io/agency. Again, it's marketingschool.io/agency. Hope you enjoy the episode.

Hello. Hello. Welcome to another masterclass. We have a very exciting guest speaker today, and I'm happy to introduce him here. We actually have Adam Edwards, who is a co-founder and the chief client officer of Metric Theory, a performance marketing agency. And at Metric Theory, his teams oversaw $500 million in annual client spend. That was across Google, Meta, LinkedIn, TikTok, programmatic, CTV, and podcast spend. It's a lot to go through. He maintained 105% NRR working with clients like Five9, Braze, Paycor, Paylocity, Optimizely, Forever 21, Hatch, Helen of Troy. I could go on, but after a successful acquisition by S4 Capital, which is actually like doing business as DotMonks in 2020, Adam was the EVP performance leading the 150-person performance unit for months and returning to unit to 10% growth in 2024. So please help me welcome Adam Edwards.

Awesome. Thank you very much, Austin. And great, great to, great to meet you guys. So yeah, I appreciate the excellent intro. What I'm going to talk about today is customer acquisition. I threw out a bunch of topics to Austin, and he said that was Particularly of interest. So definitely a topic I'm happy to speak to. So let me— I have probably like 15, 20 minutes of slides that I'll power through quickly, and then can save plenty of time for Q&A after that. So cool. Yeah, Austin did the intro. I live in Marin County, just north of San Francisco. We bootstrapped our performance agency that we founded in 2012 in SF. We exited to S4 Capital, doing business as now Monks. It presents as .monks. So that's Sir Martin Sorrell's new shop. We were about 150 people, and I can't give an exact number, but we'll share between $5 and $10 million in EBITDA at exit. And the EBITDA is intentional. I think our experience on the exit side. That is a lot more important as an agency or services business than the top line revenue for the most part. I was the P&L lead for the performance division at Monks from 2022 to 2024. So basically the former Metric Theory team. And I left in April after a little over 3 years at Monks. All the fun stuff, extra time with kids. family exercise reading. And now I'm exploring what's next. So I include my LinkedIn, you know, to be as cliché as absolutely possible, I started a Substack to start writing about agency topics too. So if you're so inclined after this, I'm not as consistent as I should be, but a few articles on there. But let's talk about what does it take to find and close new customers. I will caveat from the very outset, this is what worked for us. So this does not mean that this is the recipe for everyone. Some very quick context, just so you can have this in the back of your head as I'm talking through what worked for us. We started out as a paid search only agency. We expanded into a full-service digital media shop offering performance creative. So basically taking existing assets and scaling them for the performance channels. Our average new client ARR evolved from about $50K at the very beginning, those first couple years, it was about $500,000 for average annual recurring revenue toward the end. Yeah, and that's, that's what, what it looked like. So I'm gonna start with what were the 3 main themes that I think really helped us, because customer acquisition was absolutely a strength of ours. That's what helped with, you know, we were double-digit growth every year of our existence. We were even in the last 4 years before acquisition, like 25% CAGR. The first 3 things that I'd say are more thematic, and then I'll get into some specifics. So first, sales DNA. This was in a lot of ways unique to us, but our CEO, CRO, myself, and our more obviously VP of sales, we all came from sales backgrounds. My first job out of college was doing Tech sales. I was the worst of the bunch, honestly. Ironically, I'm presenting here to you like that was part of the success is you know we had we had so many people who came from that DNA. What does that mean to have a sales DNA? That meant we had closing day. If it was the end of the quarter, that was a big deal. It was a big deal in the office. It meant you do whatever you can to support the actual salespeople and closers who are closing deals. That meant we. Absolutely went out and celebrated if we hit our targets for the quarter. That means we did not if we didn't. It meant fearlessness and cold calling. It meant everybody negotiates. So once we built up a client roster, even our account team that I ran as the CCO, you know, our early employees were helping to negotiate not the bigger contracts but smaller $3,000 a month contracts. And so I think having that sales DNA infused all of our especially early employees really paid off and paid dividends down the road. You know, as we scaled the agency, everyone knew that was a big component of the job is if there wasn't revenue, if we weren't acquiring or retaining or expanding revenue, there was no business. And so we couldn't, you know, hire more people, grow the agency, etc. Next up was focus. Sales was sacred. I would say, You know, post-acquisition, it was astounding to me, but I talked to a bunch of other founders and CEOs who didn't participate in sales, and I was shocked. My understanding from Austin, with a little bit of intel before this, is that's probably not an issue with this group. If anything, it's you all looking to figure out how to scale it beyond yourselves. So we'll talk about that a bit more. But I will tell you, like, that's much better than the alternative. You know, until you're at significant scale, I'd say at least $25 million in annual revenue, The CEO founder should be extremely active in new biz acquisition. That doesn't mean you need to lead every single pitch. That doesn't mean you need to be in every pitch, but you should be really active in that overall process. And then the next thing is finding the right prospects. And I think this was something we were really disciplined on, focusing sales and marketing efforts on your ICP, on your ideal customer profile. That doesn't mean you can't take any new clients that are inbound who are expressing interest in you, but it's gonna be really hard. You all know it's really hard to distinguish your agency or your offering in general. If you don't have a subset of customers that you're tailoring yourself to, that's gonna be nearly impossible. And so this was something that we were really, really diligent about. For us, I would say our ICPs, you know, as advertisers, I'll take kind of, obviously, we change and evolve a bunch over time. In the middle of our run, let's call it, you know, as advertisers spending between $100K and $500K a month on digital media, where Google or Meta was the largest advertising channel for them, primarily in 3 verticals, D2C e-commerce, B2B SaaS, or consumer tech. And so again, that didn't mean that we wouldn't take a programmatic advertiser where that was their biggest category of spend that was in hospitality or travel or FinServ or healthcare. But we didn't focus our sales and marketing efforts on those. You know, we knew where we were strongest, and that's where we spent our time. Quick notes and thoughts on how to find your ICP. Existing customer analysis, obviously, like what, where do you over-index in terms of the customers you have already? Customer interviews, which are your happiest customers and why? What aspect of your offering or how you provide value to them do they appreciate the most? Employee interviews, I think, are underrated. Like ask your account managers who are running these accounts, like what type of client are you most excited about? Or do you think you do the best work on, right? And that was really telling for us. And people were like, yeah, I love D2C e-commerce because the goal set is so tangible and straightforward. Like they have a ROAS target and it's either, if we're above it, we spend more. And if we're below it, we don't. We want more of those. And then I would also say overlay areas of strength for each of you as founders or operators or your senior teams on the types of customers that benefit the most. So example from our end, We all came from B2B sales backgrounds. LinkedIn ads was probably the ad channel after Google ads that we excelled at the most, if I'm being objective. Like, that's where we outkicked the competition most significantly. We were based in the Bay Area. So yeah, all of those things lend themselves really well to B2B SaaS clients. So we worked with a lot of B2B SaaS clients for that reason, you know, or targeted and then ended up working For them, I would also say like the referral network helps a lot more when you're staying in the same vertical. So for sure, there are absolutely benefits in being more diversified in your client type. That flywheel of of new referrals and being like you know at least in the tech world, like there's so much pattern matching. Like oh, you worked with so and so direct competitor. I want to work with you too. And the the ICP it doesn't need to just be vertical or company size, right? It could be a type of goal. It could be a type of engagement. Oh, it could be, you know, level of the main point of contact, you name it. Sorry, I just— there we go. I was worried I lost power. Okay, Austin, do you want— I know there's some questions in the chat. Do you want me to stop there or power through the rest of the slides and then we take all the questions at the end?

Let's take all the questions at the end. And I was just commenting my thoughts there. Please, if you have questions, put them in the chat and we'll address them at the end.

Cool. Great. So how to structure? I would take this one absolutely with a grain of salt. You know, in terms of building out your teams, I'd start with how many pitches you're doing quarterly, right? Are you pitching more than 5 to 10 times quarterly? If yes, if the deal sizes are greater than $50,000 to $100,000 as well, and you're pitching with, let's call it higher frequency, then yeah, I think that build-out is, you know, whether it's a Chief Revenue Officer with a director or a VP and pitch teams. I'll talk more about pitch teams in a second. But I think overall, like the larger the deal size, the more important it is for the client to speak to multiple people on the team who are going to be executing on the work or leading the client account. You have high frequency, but no deal sizes are not as big. That's where I'd focus a little bit more on an SDR, and then an account executive or a director, more senior— sorry, more junior sales closer, let's call it. Because you want to achieve volume. So, you know, an SDR is going to be helpful, whether, you know, however your outbound efforts are going, you want to achieve some more volume. If you have lower frequency and deal sizes are big, yeah, that's where I'd stay probably founder-led sales, or at least assign one of your absolute top lieutenants or a CRO to own for as long as possible. And again, still probably need pitch teams depending on the size of the pitch. You're pitching infrequently and the deal sizes aren't as big. That's where I would maybe think to scale with like a director level, director of sales, and a more templatized pitch. Building a sales team, SDRs, what do they do? Prospect on LinkedIn, send in mails, emails, they cold call. Does cold calling work? Not as well as it used to. Absolutely can still work, right? That was our experience. They'll qualify inbound leads. Schedule meetings for closers. Who are they? Yeah, I'm you know being a little overly simplistic here, but they're the scrappy former athletes. Did every SDR and successful SDR we hire were they a scrappy former athlete? No, not necessarily. But like that's the mindset and the type. They need to be fearless. They need to be unafraid of of rejection. One of the jobs I had before I got into digital marketing, I worked on the '08. Presidential campaign, I literally went door to door and had doors physically slammed in my face over and over again. Like having an angry client or upset client or prospect, like cold calling is nothing at that point when you're going up to people's homes and getting doors slammed in your face. For an AE or a director of sales, what do they do? They own sales process, they handle the initial call, they present key value props and differentiators. They quarterback the pitch meeting. That doesn't mean they necessarily deliver the entire pitch, and they can help handle pricing and contracts. Quick note there, especially on larger deals, even for a while on small and mid-sized deals, like our senior people still handled actual negotiation. The AE or the director would present pricing. We would still— one of us on the leadership team would still get involved and handle negotiation. Who are they for the A-year director of sales? This is trickier. For us, it was someone, either someone who sold at an agency before, like done agency sales before, that's harder to find. Or what we did with a lot of success was we took existing client-facing rock stars who are extremely strong on the client comm side, like basically take your subset of people who are delivering services for you or running accounts. And, you know, think about the ones who would be best in a sales setting, you know, who are going to be able to pitch, demonstrate the value of your offering, of your brand, of your company most effectively. Our POV was always that it was a lot easier to teach a strong and confident digital marketer sales fundamentals than to teach, you know, someone who's done like SaaS sales enough about whatever digital marketing service you provide. To be able to pitch that. Those are where I would start down the line, a CRO or a VP of Sales. RevOps is great if you find yourself spending a ton of time in your CRM or getting involved in billing items. You know, if you're not, then you don't need RevOps for a while.

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I mentioned pitch teams, uh, more often as you move upstream, larger deal sizes. I'm sure you're, you're familiar The pitch team, not a salesperson or founder, would make or break the pitch for us. I can't emphasize that enough. Like, it took us a while to figure that out of like, yeah, we still wanted me and my co-founder Ken, who's our CEO, like really 90% of the pitch. That hurt us. That started to hurt us at some point where they're like, we know these 2 aren't actually running the account. Like, are they afraid to let, you know, someone else speak? Like, what's going on here? So I think some some quick thoughts on pitch teams. One, this goes back to the sales DNA in your company. Get people excited about pitching. Like get your line employees excited about it. It's scary for a lot of people. You need to both demystify that, and I can't emphasize that enough. It is scary scary for a lot of your line employees. Like because they care in a lot of cases, right? They know how important it is. They don't want to be the reason you don't land a big client. Or any client for that matter. Demystify that fear, but also build it up. Like, why is sales so important? And, you know, something we emphasize, like, I would tell people, look, I don't actually really like sales that much. That was the best possible job I could have had right out of college was starting as a, you know, in a SaaS sales role. Like, that skill is transferable to literally anything you will do. Give them some sales training too. Our CRO, Amanda would regularly run sales training with my team, with the account team, so that they were more prepared. What are some dos and don'ts? Do some situational analysis. What if the client asks this? What if they push back on this aspect? Teach them how to present core strategies. Let them hear you do it. They need to see the best of the best present it. Prep in advance. Dry runs are tedious but worth it. This was something, again, we weren't great about for a while. Toward the very end, when we were getting RFPs for $1 to $3 million annual deals, like, we would, we would go through 2 to 3 full dry runs, you know, and it was, it was ugly sometimes on the first time through. The practice really helped. And then the last thing I'd say is incentivize pitching. It doesn't necessarily need to be a financial reward. We would always emphasize, yeah, it's look, we promote people based on your ability to help the business. Winning new clients is one of the biggest things you can do to help the business. So people who pitch and help pitch effectively, that that's a big part of promotion consideration. I would say our POV was that if they have a full account load, I would reward them financially for pitching as well. So you know, if they're sitting there and like. They've got one client and they have plenty of time on their hands. Yeah, of course they should be helping pitch. Like, I don't think you need to bonus that. But we had, you know, I'm sure some of you do as well, like metrics to figure out how significant their account load was, what percentage of capacity they were at. If they were above, I don't know, 80%, give or take, and we asked them to pitch because the pitch was a drop everything, hours and hours of work for all the reasons we just talked about, we'd give them a bonus at the end of the quarter as well. We didn't want them dreading that. We, you know, we heard feedback like, yeah, look, like I'm supposed to deliver this great work for my clients. Like now you're saying drop, drop everything for this. So I advocate for that as well. Some quick thoughts on outbound sales. Finding leads. First off is referrals. You know, I think over time we relied less and less and less on our SDRs And our outbound sales team, more on marketing, and more than anything on referrals. Reach out again. I'm sure this is obvious to a lot of you, and you're doing this already, but really be methodical about reaching out to old clients. Like set the calendar reminder. You know, someone leaves their job, like put it in your calendar for three months, four months down the road. Like I'm going to check back in with Susie and see what you know they're looking for a new agency. Always offer to re-pitch, right? Don't take it for granted that because they were a happy customer before, they're automatically going to come back to you. Like, treat it seriously. It also gives you an opportunity to address any former weaknesses or hype new offerings. You know, they had a pretty weak account lead on the account, be like, hey, look, I'm reaching out. Like, we have our biggest rock star of an account lead just lost their, you know, their last account, you know, and is free to take yours on. Warm intros. I would scour companies in your ICP on LinkedIn and look for connections to make a warm intro. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is your friend. Find those connections, find those job titles that are part of your ICP, etc. Um, on the cold outreach side, inboxes and InMail are very crowded these days. I'm sure you all see it. I'm sure you get a million messages that you ignore all the time. I did too. You still get responses. You can still get responses. Again, it's harder. It still works. To me, it comes down to needing to do two things: you need to personalize, and you need to add value in that cold outreach. Why are you reaching out to them, and why should they listen? You know that could be you've had success with similar companies and verticals. I'd reference case studies if you've got them. You heard or saw them citing an issue that you can solve from podcasts, from earnings reports, etc., right? Like, you know earnings report obviously larger larger companies, but You know, that can work. Like if you show that you're listening to someone, like you heard them, saw them quoted in an Adweek article, or you saw them on a podcast and said, well, we're really having a tough time figuring out how to get YouTube to work effectively for us, like seek that out. Or you have an innovative strategy or tool that would specifically benefit them, right? Not just, hey, we've got this cool new AI SEO tool. Like, we've got a cool new AI SEO tool that works particularly well for small independent hotel chains because it does blah blah blah blah blah. Hey, I'd love to show it to you. Adding value. I think think about quick and scalable ways, and scalable is key here. Like, scale is important. You still need to personalize and add value, but scale is important if it's cold outreach because guess what? Your hit rates are going to be low, your response rate might be in the single percentage range. What worked for us, what we dined on for years and years as a performance media agency was we spotted an issue with your ads, right? We'd screenshot, we do a search for whatever it was, something relevant to their business. They were either not showing an ad, or they were showing an ad that wasn't super tailored or are relevant, which is, you know, at least back in the day was the greatest sin possible on Google Ads, quality score and all that. And that got us so many initial meetings was, hey, we spotted an issue with your ads, can we talk about it? You know, you are delivering immediate value there. And competitive analysis is always helpful, whether it's on their website, or competitors' websites, ads, etc. Mocking up a new ad, If you do anything on the creative side, like, that's easier than it's ever been before. Like, that's very tangible. You open up an email, it takes 3 seconds to see, oh, wow, that ad actually, like, that does look nicer than what we're running on Facebook and Instagram right now. On the SEO side, site tagging or content suggestion, not a full audit, just something. And then we'd always offer a free audit of their Facebook and/or Google Ads accounts. I'm going to talk a little bit about content. I will say, you know, Austin prepped me with like, people are interested in how you use social and content and SEO. The honest answer is we didn't as much. Again, that does not mean that it's not the right move for you all. You know, if you have a big social presence like me and Ken, our co-founder, my co-founder, who is our CEO, like, We were about as under the radar as possible. Like we never did conferences, we never did social media, we didn't do any of that. The takeaway is not necessarily you shouldn't do that either. To me, part of the takeaway is like, you should pick a couple of things that are part of your customer acquisition strategy and really go all in on being excellent at those. Because you're not gonna be able to do it all, you're not gonna be able to do outbound sales and content and social media and hit the conference circuit. Like, that's where you're gonna get too distracted. You're not gonna do any one of them well enough. So this is not a presentation meant to say don't do content or organic social. Like, it's, it's here's what worked for us and how we really went all in on it. With that said, we did have a fantastic blog that grew SEO over time. This was not any sort of like growth hacking move, but like good solid content that over time, you know, built up more and more and more site traffic. I think we were getting like 7,000 to 10,000 organic visitors a month by time of exit. It also allowed us to provide content during sales processes. And in particular, when we're doing cold outreach, like we had blog posts on just about everything by the end, because we'd require all of our, you know, dozens of account managers to write one per quarter on a topic of expertise. So You know, any one thing that came up as a challenge with the client on a call, we could say, hey, look, we already have thought leadership on this. We invested much more heavily in case studies over time. I would say that got more important as we moved further upstream to larger clients. The best individual piece of content we ever produced, we did a LinkedIn Ads ebook that drove 5 to 7 deals single-handedly. So this was directly attributable from people downloading this LinkedIn Ads ebook. There are just fewer people talking about LinkedIn ads. We had a disproportionate number of B2B clients to most other performance agencies. Like, this absolutely crushed it. This is right in line with working backward from your actual areas of strength and ICP. So don't just, you know, pick a piece of content out of a hat or see what's popular or trending. Like, think about what would really resonate with your clients, your ICP.

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Pitch process, and we're almost done. Switch over to questions. These are other just miscellaneous thoughts during a sales pitch process. Get the answers to the test. All of the best people, best salespeople I knew asked more questions than they answered, right? We had a woman, Jenny Howe, who was our VP of sales. I think at one point, 6, 7 years in, like she had directly closed 40% of the clients that we'd ever worked with as Metric Theory. And she was unbelievable at this. What are their pain points? What are they going to be considering in making a decision? Who do they compete with and what are they doing well? Why did they fire or hire their last agency, right? Get as much intel. People like to talk about themselves, about their business, about their challenges. The more you can be an empathetic listener, the more you're going to get those answers to the test, and then you tailor it. Right? It doesn't matter if you think your AI tool is your coolest offering. If they keep emphasizing needing guidance on content strategy, you need to talk content strategy, right? We saw this all the time with our Google Ads audits. We're like, the one that drove me nuts was quality score, right? We thought quality score was, you know, not as important of a metric. Like at the end of the day, the goal is revenue and ROAS or leads and cost per lead. And like, Let's give them the strategy that's going to deliver that. But we had a client who spent 75% of the time in the, you know, discovery call talking about how they wanted to improve their quality scores. Guess what our initial section of content was gonna be on that pitch? It was gonna be about how to improve quality score. The pitch deck, great value. You know, I think you distinguish yourself, they're gonna be getting multiple pitches in almost every single instance, right? So you have to work backward from like, Okay, they're gonna be talking to 2, 3, 4 of our competitors. To me, the way as an agency you distinguish yourself is either by having better people, better strategy, better tech— that one's a little trickier, honestly— or better historical results. Doesn't mean you need to go all in on all of these. In fact, I wouldn't. Like, I'd pick a couple, but I would really ask yourself as you're putting together your content for that big pitch, Are we explaining why we have better people or better strategy or better tech or better results? And then show, don't tell. Use examples, use case studies. If you're auditing something, take advantage of that. We, again, in the early days, this changed. We went further upstream. It was more formal RFP processes. We didn't get to peek under the hood in their Google Ads accounts. But when we could, We audited existing efforts and we were very specific, right? We were highlighting exactly, hey, you know, this bottom screenshot, like here are Google Display Network placements, like this goofy cartoon site, like that's, you know, and this one in, I don't know, some sort of Central or Eastern European language, like you guys spent $3,000 there. Like we just paid for half of our first month of fees by literally excluding those for you. Imagine what we can do when we have a full-time team working on this. We would mock up ads, we'd draw up a media plan, we'd outline a piece of content, we'd show them what reporting looked like with dummy data. You know, going on that, I will caveat if you're saying like, holy shit, that's a lot of work. It is. So that's why I think it's so important to make sure that you're not— don't do this for every single client who will listen, like, figure out your ICP, figure out people are actually interested. Ask the buying questions in advance, like make sure you're not priced way out of their wheelhouse. But when you have a pitch that's a good pitch, you do go all in. You know, again, that, that's something we learned the hard way when we started making a little bit of a name for ourselves and we'd get invited to RFPs more frequently. We didn't have to go out and do outbound sales or marketing. We were participating in every single RFP process we got invited to. And RFPs are a ton of work. Most RFPs are a ton of work. It was a ton of time. And like, it was pretty obvious the ones we didn't have a chance at, again, going back to the ICPs, like it was a beauty brand that asked in their 3rd question on the, you know, the RFP, like name the 5 biggest beauty brands you've ever worked with. We don't even have 5 beauty brands, like probably not a great, great opportunity for us. Like, Provide a case study on running, you know, Reddit ads. Well, if you've never run Reddit ads and it's that important, like probably not a great op. Last slide, and then I'll wrap and take some questions. I will just emphasize cross sell and upsell. It's less sexy than new business acquisition. It always is. That was this was more my domain, honestly, as the CCO for the majority of the time at Metric Theory. It's still way too neglected. And it's the easiest way to grow revenue. It's much less work to expand existing accounts. There's more stickiness. The more services you're providing, that was what the data showed for us. It helps you earn trust with the client and confirm they're still a good or profitable client. It's a way for you to check in in general. Like if one of you is again handling most of the sales, like it's just a good excuse for a touch base with the client that's not, hey, wanted to check in and see how things are going. Like, Hey, we have a new SEO tool I wanted to test drive with you. Would you be open to that? And then it's much more natural and organic to say, hey, how's it going with Billy running the rest of your account? I won't— I could spend an entire session on this, but you also need to figure out who owns cross-sells and upsells, right? Which exec holds the bag if it's not one of you? And similar exercise to the sales structure I went through with the decision tree, like, If you have a lot of smaller accounts, you probably need to train and set expectations for line AMs. That's what we did initially was individual account managers and more so the direct managers were responsible for renewing accounts on their team. You know, we had 250 clients at one point. We worked further upstream by the end, even though we were growing 20, 25, 30% a year, like we actually whittled it down to about 100, 150 clients that were much larger. And there it was much more of an exec or director level and up responsibility to renew, cross-sell, expand those accounts, not line, you know, line employees. So that's what I got. I'm sorry, I went a little, little over the initial time, but hopefully that was helpful. And now happy to answer any questions.