What It's Actually Like to Run Acquisition.com | The Leila Hormozi Interview

They put up the ads, they put up the job, they put up the pay, and they forget the little things like speak to the person that you want to hire. If I hold them accountable in a way that makes them feel like shit, are they actually going to even be able to improve? The best managers just don't make people's lives harder. And I look at it like my job as a leader is to make their jobs easier for them to do well. And why is it that we're able to get people that are so talented and that want to work here and they stay a decently long time, you know, and they're very loyal and it's because of the way we treat them. The best people Will not tolerate a suppressive leader.

Layla, do you remember that time where I was really concerned because I thought you got punched in the face and someone jumped you?

Oh yeah, I do remember that. Yeah, for a second I was like, what are you starting with?

Yeah, so I mean, but like, that is one of your core values, right? The transparency piece.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You mean when I got my face done? Yeah.

Looks great, by the way.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah. But like, dude, dude, I was just like super worried and I was like, that, that's how I wanted to start with this. Um, but here's what I really wanted to start with. Your quote here is that you sent me a text. It's, we have not worked this hard in 5 years. And so can you walk me through what's going on right now with all the stuff? And then we're going to jump into all the business.

Yeah. When I say worked hard too, I think it's Like relative. I think that the time that I'm dedicating to work right now in terms of hours is not like the same time I've put in in a very long time because I've had usually a team that's adequate and like I've built a team up for the challenge. So like in the beginning of Gym Launch, it was basically like wake up, work until you have to do something, right? Like eat or whatever. Would work out. I would literally take calls while I was working out the whole time. And then have dinner, work until I can't keep my eyes open. And I think this schedule recently has been more reflective of that in terms of like, you know, I actually haven't lifted in like 4 months.

That's what Alex just told me. Wait, 4 months? He said 4 weeks. He's 4 months.

I'm 4 months. Yeah. I've only been walking because I can take calls while I walk. And then, you know, break for dinner, but then we go back and we work after. And it's been because a few things happened at once, which is like the book launch, just like orders of magnitude larger than what I was told as the expectation. And honestly, there's just like, we're a company portfolio, like we're not like a business with like a lot of project managers or anything like that. Like we have people that work on our portfolio companies, they're not working on a book.

Yeah.

And then we have our media team, but they already are cranking on like both of our accounts. And so I decided to jump in after talking to a few of the teammates to lead the book project. project. And then on top of that, our CFO, uh, retired, and she let me know ahead of time. And unfortunately, the first replacement didn't work out. And so there's like a 2-something month gap between before my next one comes on. And so I've been CFO where we are buying a building, uh, bought 3 companies, and I'm doing all the financial and legal diligence, which I've never done any of those things before.

Yeah.

Like led that section of it. So it's just been like a steep learning curve. So I think things take much longer than they would somebody who's an expert because I'm not an expert in that stuff.

Yep. And I mean, I think it's coming out in your tweets a little bit too. It's like, hey, like sometimes it's a lot, right? And like, what's going through your head? Like, it sounds like a lot to manage. It is a lot to manage.

It is a lot to manage. And I think the thing that I like about it now is like, I will be stressed, but I'm not stressed about my stress, if that makes sense. Like I used to be stressed about how stressed I was. And I see that in our portfolio CEOs is like they're like, like I have racing thoughts and like I'm up at night thinking about this and I wake up at 4 a.m. and I can't stop thinking about it. I'm like, that's normal. Yeah, that's because you care. And I think now I can go through these times and be okay with it and be like, I'm going to be stressed and that's okay. This is temporary and will pass. It always does. And I think that's been cool to see has been like the difference of how I can handle it. In terms of prior, I think that I would have been a lot more—I would have escalated my practical problems into emotional disturbances, meaning like practical problem: we don't have a CFO and I am being CFO. That sucks and it's stressful. But when you compound that with worrying about it more and stressing about it more, it turns into like a true emotional disturbance where like you have high anxiety all the time and like now you're having to manage your extra stress and like. All of that, which has been cool to see the difference that I'm not doing that anymore, but it's also been still challenging nonetheless.

Yeah. I want to focus this talk a lot about talent acquisition, culture, operations, which to me sounds like your jam. I think it is your jam. Yeah.

I would say.

Yeah. And so like the CFO that you hired, it sounds like you moved on pretty quickly. Like I think people should know this is like when you know, you know, and you should move. And so how did you train that muscle? What happened exactly? Or you can't share everything, but High level.

It's interesting you ask because like a lot of people always want to know like what are the interview questions that you ask and what are the— and I'm like the thing is, is like I think what people don't understand is that what I've picked up along the way is just simply pattern recognition through volume. It's like people that tend to answer questions like this tend to not work out if I hire them. People that tend to answer questions like this do tend to work out when I hire them. And so one thing I talk about a lot is that it's a lot more about the responses than it is the questions. I honestly sometimes don't ask one interview question that I tell people to ask. I am just going with what I'm seeing and I'm asking questions based on the feedback I'm getting from that person and the vibe I'm getting from them. And when I say vibe, it's probably like the associations that I'm getting from that person based on past experiences of people that have similar associations. Right. So I think a lot of it is pattern recognition. That's why I encourage people so much. I'm like, dude, take 20 interviews for a position because what is so invaluable is the pattern recognition that you gain of what good looks like and what bad looks like versus a lot of people just like want to minimize the time. They say they don't have time to hire. They don't have time. I'm like, well, you're just going to end up having to get rid of that person or get somebody different anyways if you don't. And so I think that the key has been I have never backed down in terms of like, I should be taking less interviews. I don't want to interview that many people. I don't want to do that. I don't have time for that. Um, you know, I studied a lot of the best CEOs and I felt like all of them, until you get to a reasonable sized company, like even a lot of them up to 1,000, they still do interviews. And so I felt like that's a key piece of my job is making sure that we have the right people on the team.

Yep.

And I think that the best way that you can become good at that job is by doing more of it, just like sales.

Totally. And here's the thing, you— when it comes to hiring, like, you want to give your people team a process to follow, right? But if you know, like, you're going to jump around and you're going to look for the pattern recognition, and sometimes it drives my people team crazy. Like, I'll step in on the interviews and, oh, Eric, you're not asking questions from the process. Of course I'm not, because I understand the different dynamics. It sounds like you're doing the same thing. So I think people should understand that if you're a founder and you have an eye for talent, you don't need to follow that playbook. The playbook is for your team to follow, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And I would say also in terms of like the playbook for the team versus what I'm doing, I think it also depends on the company and the role. So like somebody who has a sales organization where you're churning people in and out because it's just like the nature of the job is people burn out pretty quickly, at least in most. I think you can prevent that, but that's another time.

Yeah.

And so you're hiring people all the time and it's for a very low-risk role where where people don't intend to stay for a long time and you don't intend for them to either. It's like a few stay for a long time in those kind of companies. In that kind of company, would I interview every sales rep? The answer is no, I probably would not. But would I in the company that I have in acquisition.com? We only have like 25 people on the team. Like, why would I not want to interview—

Totally.

The people that are coming on the team and they're for roles that I actually expect people to stay for a pretty long time. And so, I think that In that case, it does make a lot of sense. Like in Gym Launch, for example, I interviewed all the roles except for the 2 that were the highest churn where it was like they were only going to be there for maybe a year and we knew that and they knew that.

Yep. Dude, there's, you just gave the example earlier. There are companies that will, like the CEO will be involved or the founders will be involved until the first 1,000. DoorDash, I think, was involved for the first 2,000. I think there's this like US General that was involved for the first 10,000. Like this is some story I heard.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I think Bill Gates or Bezos were really involved like deeply all the time, right? Yeah. So it's like, I don't, again, like it's like if it's the highest leverage thing you can do in a company, like you can't, you can't ever really abdicate it, right?

No. And I think I look at it like in acquisition.com, like my 2 best highest leverage positions to be in are determining who, who comes on the bus, right? Like who gets a seat on the bus and where do they sit in terms of the team? And then who gets a spot in the portfolio? Because my eye for talent is the same eye I have for, I think, company talent, which is like, is this CEO going to cut it or not? And so I try to like make sure that I do dedicate my time to both of those things because I think that also the more that you do it, the more efficient you get at it. It doesn't take long. Like Y Combinator, they do an interview and they say, they all have said the same thing. They're like, we know in the first 20 seconds if this person, if we're going to bring them into Y Combinator or not. And I start to feel that way. I'm like, I don't need an hour. I need like 10 minutes max. You know? And I, but I feel like, I don't want to feel like a dick. So, I'm like, yeah, sure, 30 minutes. But I'm like, I already know in the first 5.

Yep. Dude, so you actually stick it out for the 30?

So, I know if I want to hire somebody in the first couple of minutes.

Totally.

Almost always. What it is, is that I actually want to use the time to set expectations for them. I want to reiterate to them, what does our company do? What do you do? What problem do you solve? In what way would you blow my mind? What am I going to do for you when you work here? What is my commitment to you as being somebody who comes to acquisition.com? And so I just want to like lay the groundwork for the relationship more than anything if I think that they're the right fit.

Right. And you just said, you know, in the first 5 to 10 minutes, there's this just innate gut feeling that's really hard to quantify. How do you think you quantify that? It's hard for people to duplicate.

I think it's gut feeling for sure, which is pattern recognition mixed with— I think very long and hard about what somebody with the skills and character looks like for the role. Like to a point where when I interviewed Caleb Ralston for Director of Brand, I literally pictured somebody huge, tattooed, like really like, like got a like super hard vibe, but like super soft and sweet. And then when immediately when we got in the interview, I told Alex, I said, I feel like this is like a dream because in the first 2 seconds I was like, he's it, we have to hire him. And he was like, why? And I was like, this is for some reason exactly what I pictured this person with these traits and this character would be like. And it's not like I ever have like one exact prototype in mind, prototype, like character trait. That is a prototype. Yeah, prototype persona. But I have like a few that I know that it could look like that could work, and then I'm looking for that match. And so I think you can just tell the way someone presents themselves, the way they're talking, the way they ask and answer questions in the first couple minutes. Are they going to fit one of those personas or not? Yep. And if it's not, it's not like I'm going to throw it out. You know what I mean? Because I've been wrong. But I think that I definitely it's been a hard turnaround from that point because I've seen people where I've said like, hey, maybe they're just. Maybe I'm wrong. And then I've also seen that not work out more times than it has.

There's a Layla-ism that Alex just gave me. And so the heuristic I used to use was, oh, Larry Page during the interview, he would just get— he's like, okay, Layla, teach me. Like, what's something you're passionate about? Okay, teach me for 5 minutes. Just so he can get something out of that interview, right? So he's not bored the whole time.

Yeah.

But yours is even better where it's like, Like, if the candidate can't teach you something better than the role that they're being interviewed for, like, then you shouldn't hire them.

Yes. In almost all instances. Yeah. Now there are some roles where you bring someone who has the character and then you train them up on the, like, sales or like, you know, customer service or something like that. Right. Where it's like, you know, you're gonna be training them. But most of the time when people are asking about hiring, it is for roles where like that person is taking over a function where the person hiring them doesn't know how to do it. And I think in those instances, I look for, did I learn something from that interview?

Right.

Was I excited after that interview? Did I feel motivated? Did I feel excited to talk to them again? Like I learned something, I had a perspective shift. And especially if I'm hiring a leader, did they challenge something I said? And not challenge in a way of like, did they try to prove me wrong, but did they provide an alternative perspective Right. That was contradictory to mine that I also think could be right.

Eventually you have to learn to cut bait quickly. And I think you guys— my sense is you guys have mastered that, right? So I'm trying to get a sense for it or—

Yeah.

Get a framework for the audience here because you got to like, you know, pretty quickly when it's also not a fit.

Yeah. Like when they come in already, you mean?

Yeah. Like basically in the first week.

Yeah. So you mis-hire.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I have this frame. Which is it is completely my fault because either I don't have the skill of picking the right person for that role, or I misunderstood what I was looking for for the role, and so I hired the wrong person. That's on me. It's also on me to right the situation. And I think that a lot of founders and CEOs, what they basically do is say like, "I'm going to try and make it work. I feel bad. This person like." Because they did. They freaking quit their— like, think of all the people that are listening to this that are founders. You quit your job. Remember how hard that was? They quit their job to work for you. That is equally as hard.

You changed their life.

Yes. That is a huge life change. And so, I don't take it lightly, but I also would feel awful keeping somebody in a company knowing that there was no career path for them. There was no opportunity for them and that I could not hold up my end of the bargain of this is the opportunity that you get working here. Because whenever somebody's joining me, it's like, I'm not going to bring somebody into my vision if their vision cannot fit within it. But if I'm keeping them in the company because I'm afraid to tell them I made a mistake and your vision does not fit within this one here, that's on me as well. And I'm doing them a disservice keeping them in the company because I'm preventing them from going to a company that will be able to do that for them. Right.

And I don't think most founders, early founders especially, are able to take that full responsibility when at the end of the day it is you making all the decisions?

Yeah, I think that it's like— I'll be really honest, like, I just really— and I don't even like know how, it's like biggest secret in the world— like, actually care about people. Like, I would feel awful if I were like, for instance, if I were in a relationship when I was younger and I knew that this person I didn't want to be in one with, I couldn't stay another day with them because I felt like that's not right for them. for me to be in this relationship. I feel the same way with people on the team. It's like if I know that there's not a path for them here and this isn't the best fit for them, then I feel awful and I don't want to prevent them from going on to somewhere, going somewhere where they do have that.

Yeah.

I just try to do everything in my absolute power to make it as easy as possible for them to find that. So, I have a big network. So, what I've done in the past is I reach out to people and I say, this is somebody that I hired. Here's why they're not a fit. Here's why I think that they might be a fit for your company if you're looking for something similar. And I've tried to set up interviews with them. It's worked out more than it hasn't. Yeah, and obviously it sucks getting fired, but at least you can make it easy for them if you have a place that you can transition them, you know, rather than just like putting them out to the cold.

A, I think that's really nice that you do that. B, we do something similar and it does work most of the time, but then sometimes it backfires where we had a situation where someone deleted our email list, deleted our Instagram, went and wrote separate Glassdoor reviews, right? It was just like a, like cyber, cyberterrorism. Let's just call it that, right? And sometimes it comes back to bite, bite you, right?

Yeah.

But I think for the most part, we call it the mindful transition. And this is my transition into what happens from an operating perspective when you have situations like that. Because at lunch, I was talking to my friend who has a pet holding company. And literally, they had someone, they fired someone, they came back in, logged back in, and started like trying to save a bunch of files or forwarding information, right? and they're going after them.

Yeah.

And this inevitably, if you're running a business, this will happen to you. Like, there's going to be moments like this. How have you dealt with them? Because I feel like you deal with situations with such grace. So, yeah.

That's good. It's just years of trial and error. Yeah. Well, in those situations, one thing is that while I'm always having that conversation with somebody, the tech person is going behind the scenes and deleting everything. So it's like I don't take chances there because my job is to protect the company. And I have seen enough people who seem really levelheaded do some weird stuff after. So I always remove access before the conversation's even done. How do you handle those situations? I think that what a lot of people do, and I actually have a friend that I was just talking to who's dealing with a situation similar, that somebody really like did something shady, right? They're typically doing that because they feel wronged by the company.

Totally.

Sometimes that's fair. It was crappy. You mis-hired them. You probably led them on. And then you probably had a pretty terrible conversation on the way out because a lot of people aren't really great at those conversations. And they don't practice them. And so it would make sense that somebody would act like a complete asshole on the way out. Like, I think that that's like warranted. And I think there should be a lot to look at in terms of like, if you're a founder and that happens to you, what do you have to learn? How could you have handled it better to mitigate that kind of behavior? Because I think when I was, you know, 6 years ago, 7 years ago, when I was inexperienced in running the company, that happened way more frequently.

Right.

I thought that I was doing my absolute best, but I was not doing what was required. You know, it was a stretch for me, but it still wasn't good enough to have people gracefully leave the company.

Got it.

At the same time, there are instances where I do absolutely everything I feel like beyond what could be done, and it still happens. And in those situations, all I'm thinking about is what are my actions telling the rest of the team? That is all I think through is like, How can I use this as an opportunity to reinforce our values and reinforce who I am as a leader? And I have had instances and not, not so far in the past where I have had to let people go. And really it's just like, I've only had to let go of 2 people in this company and it might have been misunderstood and then they may have done something really crappy after. And I was angry that they did something really crappy after. People knew about it. It was kind of embarrassing, but I was like, okay, what does it say about me to then retaliate? Because what happens when one person does something and then it's just—it escalates retaliation. You just keep going, right? I just opt out. Yep. I'm like, I will do nothing. I will protect the company. I will do whatever's in the best interest of the company. I will not retaliate at them. They are angry. They are emotional. I understand that. I'm going to give them grace. and I'm not gonna do anything. I'm just gonna protect the company. I rarely try to do anything to make them feel bad. I know that they're probably humiliated, and people do weird stuff when they're humiliated.

Mm-hmm.

They're probably worried because sometimes they can't pay for their family. They might have a new baby. Like, there's so many circumstances that it's like, if you understand those circumstances, you're like, would I do that? No. But do I understand why they may have thought that that was the right thing to do or something to do? Yeah. And so I'm just constantly thinking of how I can teach my team through my actions, how we behave. And so sincere candor, unimpeachable character. Does that look like a founder who, you know, fights back or publicly disgraces or, you know, tries to make someone's life worse? No. Yeah.

Look, my stance, and I totally agree with you, Mike, my stance is it's not worth going after them. And, you know, you're going to spend, you know, could be $50,000, $100,000 plus on Legal fees, right? And then the, the headspace it takes, it's just like, no, like to your point, focus on the company, right?

Well, and here's the thing. Do we want to make them feel bad so that hopefully we feel better, which doesn't work, or do we want them to learn from their mistake? Like seldom is it that when you fight with somebody, they learn from you fighting with them. I would rather let them be. And then like eventually when they're ready, they'll probably say something and then they'll have learned from their mistake.

Right.

You know what I mean? And I think that you treating them with grace teaches them more than you fighting back.

Yeah. Look, I think it's— you can only do what you think is right. And so this situation, the mindful transition is, look, well, we might give you 2, 3 months and we'll help you find something else and like, we'll be a good reference for you. And if something bad happens, it happens, right? So that's what I've learned from it. So I want to kind of jump around here, but I've noticed with your recent content, you've switched from the kind of at the camera talking, right? Teaching to the AMAs. So, tell me kind of the psychology here.

There's no psychology. There was—

What happened?

It was literally just like one week. I was— I think I was at the gym and I was texting Alex because it was like— it was actually during the time that I let go of somebody on the team and I had to step back in and mitigate a ton of stuff because they had a very big role that they were filling. And they were my direct report. And I also had a film session coming up where usually the prep takes me like, you know, 10 or 15 hours to do.

Yeah.

Because I'm also not an expert, so it takes me longer than it would take some people.

A prep session for?

Content. Like multiple YouTube videos, usually like 5 or 6.

Holy crap, 15 hours?

If I'm writing 5 or 6 YouTube videos plus 50 or 60 Shorts.

Yeah, OK, it's for the entire—

Yeah, that's a lot, you know what I mean? And I'm not an expert at it, so it takes me longer because I'm like, oh, this is shitty. Do it again. Still shitty. Alex, help. No, that was happening. And I was just like, and then I was like, dude, why, why did we hire a content team? And then I was like, okay, actually, if I reversed back, Alex was making content. He had a lot of vendors he was using to do it. I stepped in and was like, I'm going to start making content. And I started working with those vendors and I was like, oh my God, how do you do this? I'm losing my mind. I cannot. There's like all these like project management that I'm doing for these. Like, this does not make sense.

Yep.

And then I was like, and it feels like their incentives are not aligned with mine. Like, they want me to get views, but I want to build a brand.

Right.

Um, and—

What's the difference in your mind there?

I think that people will sacrifice their reputation in the short term to get views, and then long term they are harming the building of a brand, or at least building the wrong brand, not the one they want. Uh, and I think that a lot of people think they want views, Because they don't understand what brand is. And I think brand is playing the long game, which is being okay with getting less views in the short term, knowing that you will outlast everybody else because you will have the brand you want in the long term. Does that make sense?

Yep. Makes total sense. So, okay, now you switched to this AMA format. How is that going for you? Where do you see it going? Because here's the thing, I was talking to Alex about this. Yeah, there's, you know, with investing, there's your circle of competence, right? But there's also your circle of competence when it comes to the content format too. And the AMAs, I think, do lend— like, this is kind of an AMA in itself.

Yeah, yeah.

And I feel like it's more natural. Like, this is actually what I like. And I think about the content I like to create, right?

Yeah.

So, yeah.

I don't like direct-to-camera. And I told the team, actually, it was about a week and a half ago, I said, I don't wanna do it anymore.

Yeah.

I want to do a few things. And I said, one is the vlog. Vlog all day. Because I feel like the thing is, like, direct-to-camera, it's like, I feel like my personality's not there. I'm just— I seem like this intense—

Yeah, you're lecturing, like, and nobody likes being lectured to.

I'm talking like this intense bitch. And I just, like, don't like how that comes off. You know what I mean? Yeah, same here. Same here. I'm an intense bitch too. I know. Yeah. Such a bitch. And then, you know, vlog, I'm like, I love it because they can see like what I'm actually like, which is like I'm actually really goofy. Yeah, but I'm not comfortable enough to do that in a direct-to-camera setting or even like in this set. I'm not going to be like super, you know what I mean? But it's like when they catch me in the day-to-day and with the team, I am that way. Yeah. And I want people to see that because I think that is actually the Layla that has created the team and built the culture, not the Layla they see.

That's the real Layla.

That's the real Layla that the team knows.

Yeah.

You know, like making faces silly, shows up dressed like Alex randomly to make people laugh, like do whatever it is to like get the team spirits up. Like that's who I am. And so I want people to see that because I think it's important for them to know what leadership can look like and that it's not authoritative.

Yeah.

Because I'm not like that with the team. And so I feel like that's a better way for me to teach and I enjoy it more and it takes less time. So I feel like there's only been benefit to it. It takes much longer to edit. So the team we have to grow. Well, it's your job. Yeah. So that's why it's tough. Like not everyone can do it because you have to have— we have a large team and it's expanding. In terms of besides that, I want to do case studies. So case studies of our companies. So I have started to pick a few that I'm going to do like video breakdowns of. And when I say case study, I don't even mean tactical breakdowns. I mean like I want to tell the story of why this business is successful. and why these founders are successful.

And this is like a portfolio company?

Yes.

Got it.

And so I have one that we're working on right now and I'm really excited about it because I want it to be like a really good first one.

Yeah.

I just, I really am passionate about showcasing founders with the character that it takes to win even more than the businesses because I'm like, the business isn't the reason they're succeeding. It's who they are, the skills they have, the character they have. The reason that they have that, we're able to attract the talent, which can make You know, the business work and like there's all these things. And so I want to be able to tell the stories of those founders. And so that's the second piece of content that I really want to do and that we're, we're working on adding in right now. And then still doing teaching, but we're trying different formats. So basically trying like ask me anything type formats with themes geared towards it. And hopefully when we get this office, then we'll also be able to kind of expand that. I would like to do a call-in show where it can be like themed call-in shows, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah, I still want to integrate the frameworks in somewhere because I use those a lot in like teaching our portfolio CEOs and such. I just don't know what format that is going to take place.

Well, dude, I mean, you guys are going to have this big-ass office. It's like, I just know I'm just riffing. It's like people know who you are. You can literally have people come in like once a week or once a month or whatever. And it's like a live AMA type of thing. I don't know.

I would like to do that because I think that's what I do best. Like, yeah, but I also, I respect like My best work is all done in private and will never be seen on a vlog. It's one-on-ones with my team and it's one-on-ones with the portfolio CEOs. Yeah. And I cannot talk about it. Yeah. That's a tough thing. It's tough, dude. It's tough. It's my best content. Yeah. And like the team has seen some of it and they've been like, holy— and we can't ever show anyone. Yeah. And I would never do that and I don't want to and I don't want people to be uncomfortable. Yeah. But I want to be able to build like Some kind of format with like a podcast or whatever in our studio where I can showcase that.

Yeah. I mean, that's— that is the toughest thing. It's— I think at some point someone will get to the level where they're filming all their work because it's, it's, it's the real shit. And how long did it take for you to realize that it was time to switch content formats? The reason I'm asking this is because people just kind of— they see what's out there and it's like, oh, let's just imitate what other people are doing. And they keep doing it for years and years and they give up and it never worked.

I think I, I called Caleb and I said, I don't like my own content and I don't care what we have to do or what it looks like. I just want to like the content I put out. And I was like, I, I, I like when you see my personality. I like where you see me doing things live with the team. I like when you can see more in the day and I like when I'm completely honest and transparent.

Yeah.

And it's not like a pre-scripted production. Like, I want people to see the real stuff because what I want and have always wanted from people that I want to learn from is that.

Yep.

And so I'm like, I want to put out that because that's what I've always wanted. And I think he had the same vision because he, from day one, was like, if people could just know you like I know you, then your content will blow up.

Yeah.

And I was like, maybe that's a consequence of it, but it takes time because it takes time to get comfortable on camera and stuff. But More than anything, I feel like if people would just listen to themselves of like, what content do I want to consume and how can I create that? I feel like that would just be such a simpler way. Here's the thing. I don't watch anybody's content. People I follow, they're muted. I do not. I don't watch anyone's content. Not on Instagram, not on YouTube, like barely anything. Podcasts, nothing. I consume nothing right now. It's ridiculous. Books, like from a very long time ago. Like, that's it. And so I don't even know what's working right now. People are like, oh, I see you got on this. I'm like, I have no fucking idea.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And I actually feel like that's an advantage because I'm like, whatever, it's working for me right now. Because I'm not looking at what other people are doing. I've never once copied a video. I've never looked at a video and be like, I'll make my own version, not one time. And so I think I would just like more of that.

Yeah. I like how for both of you, it's like, we're just gonna do what works for us. And like, it is what it is, right? You guys can do it your way. I'm gonna do my relationship this way. I'm gonna do my business this way. I'm gonna do my content this way. And the story that you just shared, it reminds me of this recent artist They, um, they raised a bunch of money from like Pharrell and all these like, you know, VCs and all that. But like, main point is I talked to him, he's like— I was like, so like, where do you get your inspiration from? He's like, I don't look at any other art because it's gonna fuck with my creative— it's just how creatively I think, right? And that's kind of what you're saying right here.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like, even when I see like somebody copy my content, I don't get angry, but I just am like, damn, like you're losing, you know what I mean? Because like you can't ever make it better than the original. Yep. And it's not authentic to you. It's not what you actually think or feel. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I just don't want to do that.

At least people are copying you. That's amazing. That's good. So this shit's good. So I wanted— okay, so I want to go back to talent and Mosey Talent. Tell us about that and I'll go from there.

It's literally just right now our talent funnel. So for portfolio companies, Essentially, we do the recruiting for the leadership and specialized roles. Scope creep, probably. That's okay. Like, I want to help.

And you guys are placing all the operators, right? Just to be clear.

Yes. So leadership, which is often somebody comes to us, a lot of people do need like an operator. Some are like, some founders come in like 2s or 3s. So we have a few of like 3 founders and 2 founders. Those tend to be honestly the best Scenarios because there's usually a natural operator in there. But a lot of the ones that come to us, especially when it's a single founder, they need an operator. And so Mosi Talent kind of was just born in that. My vision when we started acquisition.com was that we recruited their leadership teams because with our first 2 companies, it was so painful because I would tell them who they need to hire. Here's the JD, here's all that. It would just be the wrong person. And so I was like, you know what? We know what good looks like. They don't yet. Let's help them find these people as a piece of what we do. And it worked out really well because, you know, we're able to see not just is this the right person for this role, but is this the right person for their company? Because we know their values, we know their culture, and we know the founder. And so it worked out better than using any outsourced recruiting firm to just take it in-house and help do that. Because that was kind of what I was going to do in the beginning is just outsource to a recruiting firm.

Yep.

But then I was like, that doesn't We know them better, and I understand recruiting. Like, let's just do it in-house. And so Mosi Talent is really if people sign up for it, they are first on like our list for picking for the new roles that open up in our portfolio companies or in acquisition.com. And so then they're basically like they get first dibs at the jobs. That's really what it is. And it's being built out right now because essentially what I'd like to build it into is a talent community where we can teach people skills. We can add value to them in different ways of like, this is how you build a resume. Here's interview tips, you know, and then even job-specific skills at some point to be training them on those things. Um, you know, that's not a need yet, but it's where it's going.

Mm-hmm.

And I think it works out really well because, you know, even if they don't get the job or whatever, like even a lot of them have said going through the interview process alone has been very beneficial for them because we give them feedback. You know what I mean? I love that.

And most— I mean, look, you got your guys' content funnels, creates deal flow, but also creates talent flow as well. And you're doing something with that. And that actually brings me to my next point. Actually, my friends, I was like, oh, Layla does this MOSI talent thing. I want to learn more about it. He's like, well, get the macro steps from her on how to build talent pipeline. So—

The macro steps on building a talent pipeline.

Yeah.

I can tell you the biggest secret for building a talent pipeline. Go for it. Have a brand.

Okay.

I recruited every person myself. Gym Launch day 1. 2 young founders, no track record, no brand, nothing. Tough. Just tough. Yeah. Then every year watching it transform to when Gym Launch was bigger, feeling like, oh, we have people coming to us now. When it started to gain success, I was like, people are coming to us. And so my actual like goal for every portfolio company is that they eventually have the inbound funnel, which is what we really have right now. A lot of is we have a lot of inbound. Now you can do more to get more qualified inbound. You know, in terms of a talent funnel, I think that people, if you're, if you have no brand and you have to just like macro step, step by step, build a talent funnel, it is literally no different than an acquisition funnel for clients. It's like you have, you know, they see an ad, it's calling out an avatar. You click on the ad, it does a, a qualification process for that. You can set up a time right there. Like I just mirror the exact same thing. And I think for me, when I first started building it for Gym Launch, when we had really no brand or following or anything, I just looked at what we were doing for ads and I said, I'm just gonna do that for jobs. That's it. Like one for one. Mm-hmm. Even in terms of how intricately I wrote copy. So something, a fun fact for you is that the one job description I've wrote the most times and tried and hired for the most is an operator. And when I have asked them, what caught your eye? Because I always ask people like, why did you apply for this job? And I find it really interesting is that they all said it was the ad. And you know who wrote that ad?

You.

Me, who's interviewed the most operators. And so it really does, in my opinion, a lot of it comes down to People take all the steps I tell them to, but they forego how thoughtful they are in writing the copy. Like, I really pay a lot of attention to the copy, like the headline that catches their attention, the copy below that, and then the job description copy itself. Because people think they're like, oh, nobody reads it, but they read every line. Like, I'm not kidding you, they read every line of that job description. And so I write the job description in a way that I know appeals to people. I also build a job in a way that appeals to people, but it also appeals in the way I write it. I'm not going to write it in like a monotonous tone that sounds like everything else when you Google it. And so I think that a lot of people don't pay attention to the steps there. You know, it's like I think that they, they put up the ads, they put up the job, they put up the pay, and they forget the little things like speak to the person that you want to hire and then they will be the ones that apply. I've even had it where I've posted for, you know, C-level $500,000 a year roles on Indeed. And because the copy was so good, someone randomly applied who was qualified and fit the persona.

You've gotten— okay, we're going to, we're going to back that up for a second. But I remember when I was, I think I was 22, so I didn't know internet marketing or digital marketing yet. Yeah. And I saw this job on Craigslist and it was a long-form sales letter with really good copy. This guy learned from like Gary Halper or whatever. It was a long-form sales letter. There's a bunch of stuff in there. So I'm curious. Because I look at a really good JD as a sales letter. So like, what goes into yours that sets yours apart?

I mean, I think that I'll be honest, at the end of the day, the company is what sets it apart because it'd be like trying to sell a crappy product. You know what I mean? Like it's much easier to just sell a good product, which is like, it's much easier to advertise for a good company. I always start it off talking about the mission and the values. And I know that sounds like cliché, but—

This is in the JD?

Yeah. The top of the JD is always about the mission and the values. So when I'm posting a job, the first thing that's there is like, this is the company, this is what we do. This is the mission and here are our values. If you do not align with those things, then we wish you best of luck. If you do, keep reading. And then I go into the job description. And usually when I think about the job description, when I'm speaking to the person, I'm thinking, what problem does this role solve? And then I speak from that perspective because I believe that if you speak to the impact somebody is going to have in the organization, that's what's incentivizing for the kind of people I want to work with.

The job to be done.

Yeah, they want to know like that they're going to have meaningful work. And I'm like, here's what I'm dealing with. Like when I advertise for an executive assistant, I said, I'm working from when I wake up to when I go to bed. My email inbox is never at zero. My— I can't ever get back to my text messages. People have been waiting on me for weeks for things. Projects are disorganized, slipping through the cracks, and I'm losing my mind. And my husband doesn't have a wife. Can you help me?

Yeah.

And they're like, I love that because they're all— they want to help and they want to make my life better. Yeah. And people feel that way, except with the job, they're like, wow, I wanna make the company better. Yep. And they see the opportunity. And so I think that the more clearly you can define what's the problem that they're solving and what's the impact they're going to have, then I think that, that the better candidates you'll get because the best candidates want to have an impact on the organization and they wanna know that they can feel it.

You know what's interesting? I feel like I have an inner— I've— the only interaction I've had with your EA, your executive assistant today, I feel like she's more in line with how your personality is, whereas Alex's EA is more like— she's more intense from the vibe. I haven't talked to them ever, right? You can just tell from how they write and like it's—

Which one did— so they're both my EAs.

Oh, are they?

Yeah.

Okay, so—

But then we take his stuff and source it out.

The one with the Y is more intense. The one with the D is very like, you know, sweet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Yasmin's, uh, so she's the senior executive assistant. She's been with me for 6 years. Yeah. And then Davina has been with us for a year. Yeah. Not even a year yet. Yeah. Um, I, they're both absolutely amazing. Yeah. But it is funny cuz Yasmin's like a, yeah, get shit done. Yeah. Power player. And Davina's like very sweet and accommodating. Yeah. And they do great balancing each other.

Yeah. It's been so, Yasmin's so funny. She like, so, um, we're getting the address for this place. She's like, hey, I need the address for the place. Right. And then like, you know, I'll check my email like the next day or something. And I didn't respond quickly enough. She's like, hey, like basically like I need time now. I was like, all right. All right, man. I'd be like, okay. Okay. I like it. I like it. So let's go, let's go to leaders. So you just mentioned, and this could be the headline here, recruiting executives from Indeed. That is because typically I would think that the, the best of the best, you're typically— and you probably are sourcing them, right? But how many people have you actually gotten from Indeed that are like that level? Because that— I would like to know more about that.

Well, I would say less, less than more. Yeah. Yeah. Like a few. Like I could probably count on one hand.

Still amazing.

But here's the thing is that most people I think that this is the thing, is that the difference between acquiring talent and acquiring customers is that you acquire customers all the time, every day. You get to innovate on that process all the time. You only hire a sales director like once and then maybe again in 4 years. And so how good can you get at recruiting for that person? How certain are you of where they are looking and what channel they're on, etc.? So I say like more of like the spray and pray. Like, I will post on every platform. We will try outreach. We will try inbound. We will do every mechanism possible for a role because we're probably only hiring it for one time. Now, like, if we're hiring for multiple sales reps, I'm going to probably get really good at finding sales reps, understand what platform they live on, understand their persona, all those things. So, I'm going to be able to go really deep on one channel.

Mm-hmm.

But I would say, like, cast a wide net in the case of recruiting because you're probably not very good at it and you probably don't Have the best funnel. So it's like you want to cast a wider net in that case, which is most of the time for most people.

Totally. And actually, I mean, so what do you think about the 30 people that you have at acquisition.com right now? What percentage— because they all sound pretty high level to me— what percent were source versus job posting, whatever else you have?

I don't know. I think a lot of them, like, we would put up a job organically and a lot of people would apply because they've been following us.

Yep.

That's definitely the case for a lot of like media. For more of the team on the portfolio side, we found more of them or found through referrals.

Got it.

Less of them coming to us because I think on the portfolio side, we don't have a ton of, we don't have as many executives following us as we do people qualif— there are not as many people qualified for the executive role as there are for some of the other roles.

Dude, have you guys— remember when we were eating last year? I was talking about how, because you both have a pretty decent following, it's like, hey, who's the best CEO that you know? Tag them in here, right? Have you guys tried that on social yet? It's like, we'll give you like X amount of dollars if we make the hire.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Yeah, that could work.

Have you done that?

No, I haven't.

Let me know how it goes. We'll come back in a year.

Come back and tag the best CEO, you know?

So, okay, CEOs may be too high level. It's like, who's the best like VP of marketing that you know? Tag them in here. You know, we'll make the higher type of thing.

I hear what you're saying.

And those go crazy, right? Yeah, on both LinkedIn and on Twitter.

Um, let me know how it goes. Huh. Yeah, you just poach them though?

No, you don't poach them. So they're just like tagging their friends. Yeah, you are poaching them, I guess. Yeah, I don't know.

I feel shitty about— you know what I mean? Like, what if the best one is like my friends, you know?

Then okay, that's different. That's like you need to have a conversation. But then it's like— because the thing That's popping up for me is like, I just remember the people that I've been nurturing for, and you know this, like with executive hires, like sometimes you're nurturing them for like 2, 3, 4 years or whatever. Yeah. And I'm like, man, the ones that I've kept on deck right now have really all come from stuff like that.

Interesting. Okay.

Yeah. Anyway, not just a thought, not telling you you should do it. I think you talked about the portfolio CEOs that you're hiring. These are people that you're sourcing referrals, right? And then CEOs? Yeah, the operators.

Operators. Yeah, yeah, we source those ones.

Okay, and then the people for acquisition.com, that's a job post, right?

So, okay, I didn't realize that you were asking me about anyone for our portfolio companies when you asked about that.

I'm like moving around. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, so I was referring to acquisition.com like holdco in terms of for our portfolio companies. It's a, it's a mix. I wouldn't— I don't know the exact percentage right now. Got it.

And now I want to go back to kind of the mission and values piece, because I think people tend to gloss over this. It's like, oh yeah, okay, mission, values, whatever. But I feel like you and Alex really live your mission and values like every single day to a T, right? How do you— how— what's your style of holding people accountable?

I think that you have to define what the values mean and what they mean in terms of behavior. So that's the expectation, right? It's like these values mean this. You behave in these ways. If you agree to work here, you also agree to behave in those ways, right? In terms of holding people accountable, I think it's putting in tools where they can assess themselves and then you can ask them about that.

Mm-hmm.

So it's really easy for me to hold people accountable because I have so many ways in which I have them report on their own progress in terms of our values and their, and their jobs. So on a weekly basis, I have end-of-week reports where they're reporting on it. I would say metrics progress and project progress as well as personal progress.

And this is a one-on-one?

This is an end-of-week report.

Got it.

So they have to write in there and tell me these things. Okay. Got it. That, in my opinion, is like one of the best ways that I can do it. And people always fill it out because guess what I do? I comment on every single thing they say. I don't miss a point. I read every single line. I respond to everything they say. It takes me a long time. But like, I've done this for years and I think that the reason most people are really shitty at getting reporting is because nobody reinforces them filling out the report. So that's the first thing that I do. The second thing in terms of holding people accountable— And just real quick, sorry.

Yeah. And that's a, that's like a Google Doc. Yeah. Okay. Got it. I love how simple it is. I love it. Yeah.

It's just literally a Google Doc. I, I, works for me. Yep. And we have like systems for like feedback and stuff, like formal quarterly reviews and stuff. Where we do the same thing, but they actually don't have an end-of-week report system in there. So either way, I would say that oftentimes what I do is you set the expectation, you then put in the mechanism where someone can evaluate themselves against the expectation, and then you just hold up the mirror and ask, how do you think you're doing? And that, in my opinion, is the best way to hold someone accountable. Now, I think a lot of people think that accountability is telling someone that they're doing something wrong. I think that that is poor management because they don't already know they're doing something wrong because you haven't put the systems in place for them to be able to measure their own progress. And so I think that I used to have to tell people they were doing things wrong all the time because I didn't understand that if I put in mechanisms where they had to report on their progress themselves and it's so much better this way because then they take ownership over it, they take ownership because they see that they're not making progress in certain areas and they'll point it out to me and then I can be their partner in figuring out what we can do to move that metric or to get that project done faster. Or, hey, maybe we shouldn't even be doing the project. And it becomes much more of like a collaborative process than a, I have to come tell you you're doing something wrong every time something isn't being met.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. And are you— so I'm assuming this is the end of the week report. You're leaving comments and it leads into like a one-on-one next week or something like that, right?

Yep. Yep. And then on the one-on-one, we can both add you know, talking points in there and talk through things.

Got it.

I always say, like, lead with ask before you assume. So, if somebody's not making progress and maybe they haven't pointed it out, I would never assume reasons as to why. I would just simply ask them. You know, look, your metrics here are lower than the standard. Could you tell me why?

Yeah.

Like, it doesn't have to be this big scary conversation. And I think a lot of people associate accountability with being mean or punishing, but I think That actually is worse because think about somebody likely to change or to change their behavior or to do better in their job. Do they feel bad about themselves or good about themselves? People who feel good about themselves, they have a healthy sense of self-esteem, are more likely to perform in their job.

Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So if I hold them accountable in a way that makes them feel like shit, are they actually going to even be able to improve? The best managers just don't make people's lives harder.

Yeah.

And actually, in reality, most managers and leaders make the people that work for them's lives harder, not easier. They make doing their job harder, not easier. And I look at it like my job as a leader is to make their jobs easier for them to do well.

Yeah, I think it's like you've developed— you have to develop a certain sense of patience. And I think a lot of founders in the early stages, they just go nuts, right? Because they're the founder. So yeah, anyway, I want to move on from this one. So let me ask you this very philosophical question. This could, this could, this could go wrong, but we're gonna take a risk here.

Okay.

So, so, and Alex isn't here. So if you were to decide to have kids, right, because both of you are hard charging. And this is interesting because I was talking about this with my pet holding company buddy during lunch and his partner was there too. He's like, Well, like, so how does it work if, if Layla decides, like, they decide to have kids? Like, you know, one's gonna have to like step back, right? Like, do you— like, how do you see it? Because it's like, that is another level, right?

Yeah.

So how do you look at it?

Like, if we were to have kids, what would happen?

Yeah. Um, would you dial it back or would you like keep pushing? Like, what do you think?

I think there's trade-offs.

Yeah.

You know, I think I would put systems in place to allow me to get You know, the most out of myself. Like anything else, it's almost like there's a lot of times in the company where you have to step out to do something else that has occurred. Like right now, I have to make room to cover for the CFO. Well, that could just as well be I have to make room to take care of a kid. Yeah. And so you figure out ways. And I actually think that it provides a lot of opportunity for people in terms of, you know, if I were to have kids, then I would say like, this is a great opportunity for me to see like, where are the strengths and weaknesses of the team if I put more on them, as well as where are the gaps that I need to get somebody else in here?

Yeah.

And I would say the same goes for like home life. Like, I would just like— I would never do that on my own.

Yeah.

You know, I think that a lot of people— like, I look at my family that's Iranian and like, it's great because there's like 15 of them in a house.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

But we don't have that here. So I would probably figure out, okay, well, how can I get enough people in the house and at work that it could make it— I have help on both sides, allowing it to be actually doable.

Yeah. By the way, side question, Alex isn't here.

You guys gonna move back to LA? Back to okay. We actually never lived in LA. We lived in Orange County. Back to California. Too many taxes.

Too wait.

Too many taxes. Too much taxes. Got it.

Got it. Got it. Got it. The so you spoke at the event that I had last year. Thank you. And one of the things I think you were asked on stage was who do you look up to? And your answer was no one, right? So go ahead. I hate that question. I like the answer though. Like so. The answer is more impressive to me. It's like, what is the grand vision here? Right? Because look, Alex's mission is to educate, right? I'm just wondering, like, what are the primary drivers for you? What's the end vision?

So education is a real thing. I think we're both really passionate about that. I think for me, you know, something that we've talked about a lot is like there's an internal and an external mission. And I think that Alex has a mission that's for the greater community. And my mission with Acquisition.com is how do I build a $10, $20, $100 billion company, whatever, through encouraging people, really caring about people, helping people develop, helping people grow, and not turning into one of these very punishing organizations. Typical PE, typical big corporate, typical bureaucracy, which I understand why that accumulates over time, but I would just love to do it to get there because I know we'll get there. But I want to get there in a way that builds a culture based off praise, not punishment. And that's really what I focus on is like everything that we've built. Everyone always looks at the tactics and the funnel and the sales and this and that. And I'm just like, that's fine. It's a waste of fucking time though, because the reason that we have built this, it is the team. It's the team. It's not like me and Alex are in there doing all that stuff all day. It's the team. And why is it that we're able to get people that are so talented? And that want to work here and they stay a decently long time, you know, and they're very loyal. And it's because of the way we treat them. And it's because I think that I innately did a lot of things because I just really actually care about people. And then I realized why it works. And it's so contrary to most management that's taught that I just really want to— I don't want to talk about right now. I just want to do it. And then in 10 years, people will be like, how'd you do it? And then I'll be like, there's proof.

New book, The Acquisition Way. So there's this book I've been pushing right now, Scaling People, from the Stripe COO. So that's like the new modern-day, like, high-output management, right?

Okay. Is it?

Yeah. But then maybe you got the next one. I don't know. Like, so we'll see.

I'd be really interested what his is about.

Hers.

Hers.

It's— sorry. It's really good. Like, there's so much more. Like, I want to talk about roles, responsibilities, holdco rage. But you just mentioned education also being part of your mission too. So I guess what is in your learning stack? Because here's the thing, we've talked a lot about operations in this one, like recruiting team and all that, right? People might be like, oh my God, that's boring. But like, that is everything, right?

Yeah, it's a lot. Here's the thing also is actually I think is really interesting is like, I think people assume that Alex doesn't give a fuck about any of that stuff and that I don't know anything about what he's doing. And we're both like absolute experts in both. Yep. You know what I'm saying? But we just split our roles.

Yep.

And go ahead. Yeah. No. So I just think it's— it is interesting because I think people like label it as my domain. Like, I know how to sell and market shit, you know what I mean? And like, people see it, him, and they're like, oh, he has no way. He knows how to do all that.

I think humans just like to label things.

100%.

Yeah. And like, and the problem with marketing sales is like, it is sexier, but it's like, this is the shit that matters at the end of the day. But anyway, how do you get better at your job? That's the question.

At what I do?

Yeah.

Oh, you mean like, do I consume something? Do I have mentors? Do I—

Yeah, just any, 'cause I just think you're a very good operator. Like, yes, you're good at sales and marketing, but like the people, like the stuff you're saying, like clearly you've put a lot of work into this. So you can say I, I read nothing, right? It's just all experience.

So it's actually really interesting. It brings me to like a conversation I had with one of our, like, he's basically family, Dr. Kashey, which I think it's just like a morphous character we talk about. Where I said, like, I feel like I learn much more through doing rather than consuming these fluffy bullshit books. Like, I feel like I waste way more time reading. And if there's anything I've learned from him, it's that most of the best books were written 100 years ago. And so I actually only read books that Dr. Kashey recommends because he reads books by the people who came up with the ideas, not the people who have iterated on them. And so after that, we had a few conversations. He was like, you Do learn more by doing. And you probably learn faster than anybody because you have an environment, which is a company, where you can experiment on a daily, weekly, monthly basis and then get the immediate feedback from it.

Yup.

Versus reading a book and like having a, you know, something shared there. So I think I actually look at what I'm doing in the company as an experiment. Every time a people situation arises— actually, something arose today that was very upsetting to me. And I was like, how could I deal with this to get this outcome in a way that is least punishing for all? And so I called up Dr. Kashey and I talked him through it and said, I think this is what I'm going to do. And he had a few pieces of feedback. And then I was like, okay, this is— we met with some other people and we were like, this is the plan we're going to go forward with and then we'll see how it works. And that's feedback. And so I think that a lot of it is approaching people management with an experimental point of view more than Like I'm going to do this because people that are successful do this and they say it works.

Yep.

You know, and I think that's what has taught me so much has just been approaching everything as an experiment and then taking those learnings and then applying them going forward. I think that's been what's most helpful. And I think also just leaning into for me, I realized that there was so much bad advice that I was I was taking in through a lot of forms of media I was consuming, books I was consuming. And so I was like, fuck, I'm, I'm just going to find out for myself, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think taking a very like first principles approach to everything, even with building acquisition.com, you know, everyone's like, you really need to get a mentor in private equity. I'm like, why the fuck would I want a mentor in private equity? Yeah. Like, have you seen what their businesses and lives look like? And most of them and they're a lot of them are arrogant assholes. I don't want one of those people as my mentor. I don't want to build a team like theirs who feels handcuffed and like they're have to stay at their job because they're just paid a lot of money. So I was like, I'll figure it out. It can't be that hard. Yeah. Like first principles thinking, like, don't buy a shitty company. You know what I mean? Like, okay, if the founder hates the company, probably shouldn't buy it. Like, so I think I just approach most things like that. Like, I know that we overcomplicate things. And I think that the reason, Eric, that I feel like I approach it like that is because in building Gym Launch, so many of the decisions that I made with such little experience, just based off first principles thinking, ended up being the best decisions. And the ones that where I leaned on someone else, where I did something from a book, where from a podcast some successful person said, those ended up never working out for me. And I think I just realized I have to trust myself a lot more and also trust that I'll fail, but that I can figure it out.

Because also because you have the most context too.

I have the most context on me. Yeah. You know, even when I get— I have people that are worth billions of dollars and they give me a piece of very absolute advice, I'm like, if he had all the context, he wouldn't give me that advice. Yeah.

Because This is a problem with advice. It's based on their experience. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I got 2 final questions and then we can wrap here. So, are you good? I think I saw a quote somewhere else and then it reminded me of you talking about this, but where founders tend to step away from the business too soon and you've seen that over and over. So are you have any advice for founders on this? Because it's like, it's so cool. Let's go hire an operator, let's go hire a CEO, whatever. And then everything bombs.

I think there's a couple things, which is one, you often don't want to step away from something that you actually like. Seldom do I see that. You don't see me trying to step away from acquisition.com. Could I put somebody in place? Probably. Do I want to? No. I like what I'm doing. And so I think that before anyone even thinks about stepping away, think about why do you not like your company enough that you would rather be doing something else? And I think that a lot of people build companies that they don't like because they're using other people's judgments, other people's opinions. They're building it off of some book some dude wrote, right? And they're doing what other people think they should be doing rather than what they want to be. And I think that's why so many people want to get away from their company. So I would say like, what in your company suppresses you to the point that you feel like you need to get away from it? And that would be something to figure out first.

That's great.

The second piece would be if you're trying to get away from the company, I think that most people, if they're trying to outsource it too soon, it's typically, yeah, You know what? I actually just think it's number one. I think they're trying to get out of pain. There's something that is punishing about the company. Therefore, they want to get away from it and they don't care what they have to do to get away from it. Now you can put an operator in place, but what's going to happen to the operator? You know what I mean? It's like, it'll be punishing for them too. And eventually they'll not want to be there. So I'm like, just fix the damn company. You know what I mean? But I don't think people want to hear that. And I think oftentimes too, when it's very small, that's when the most problems are because usually it's like product market fit isn't quite right. You haven't really understood who your true customer is. You're probably overserving and selling to too many people. There's all the same normal problems. Pricing's off. You just have to do the work to get past that. I think that I would encourage people to get to a place where they enjoy the business. And running it before they try to outsource the whole thing. Totally. You will be more successful in outsourcing it.

Yeah. Yeah. Look, one more thing before I, before I end it with the final question. What was your name again? Jason. Jason. Okay. So here's a huge testament. Those of you can't see Jason here. So it is on a Sunday and we recorded for about 3 hours and 20 minutes over here. And Jason is super excited. And that's a testament to how good of a culture that Layla and Alex have built. I just want to say that, like, you cannot fake that, right? He can look like he totally hates it, but he's super— he's nodding his head right now. It's just like, that is what a great culture looks like. So I would encourage everyone to just re-listen to this. But here's the final question, and this ties in with it. You talk about engineering a culture where everyone wins. Tell us more about that.

I think that a lot of the times, I think businesses are built to serve a founder or to serve A customer, but seldom do they think, how do we also serve the employees? And I think that when we built acquisition.com, it was equally, how do we build a place where we can make all the portfolio companies better as well as how do we make our team better? And I think it doesn't take much more than like an extra lens to think through. So I'll give you an example for, uh, that I see at least is like me and Alex are building our content, right? And we're building our platforms. And I see like long, long, how can I use my platform to elevate the people in my company to then have their own micro platforms within our platform? And then how can I build enough opportunity in acquisition.com that they can benefit from that opportunity with their micro platform they build within ours?

Hmm.

So if we build what is my vision is like a mix of Gary Vee, Kim Kardashian. So it's like a mix of the Kardashians with Gary Vee, like business. Think business Kardashians. Like, that's what I want to build. Yeah. And then how can I bring people in as characters into that show and then give them platforms and then create opportunities in acquisition.com where maybe, you know, because we've taught people over the years and they've gotten to assimilate everything, they can go build a company within acquisition.com, use our brand plus their brand, It will benefit them and us. So I just see like big vision. That's what I want to be able to build. And I think that the reason a lot of people can't or choose not to build a win-win culture is because they're too busy thinking, you know what? I don't want to put that person on a platform because what if they leave me?

Yep.

And the thing is, is that people will leave you either way. One way is where you suppress them. And they say, fuck you, I'm going to go find somebody who doesn't suppress me, or I'll go do it on my own. Or you can say, I will encourage them and I will invest in them. They could leave you with everything you've invested, but they're still better off and you are because you've learned and you've been a better teacher. Or they could stay.

Yeah.

And at the end of the day, you win together. And the one thing that I see is just like, I don't want to be at the end of my life and have just like me cheering for me. Like, I want hundreds of people to be cheering for me because I made their lives better and I made them more money and maybe made them more famous than anybody else. Like, that's what I would like to be able to do. And I think that at the end of the day, I also believe that the best people will not tolerate a suppressive leader. I think that the best people will only work for somebody who puts them on a pedestal, not themselves.

I love that. Layla, I think that's a great way to end. So what is the best way for people to find you online? All the things.

Just @LaylaHormozi, Instagram, Twitter. You can also follow— if this is on a podcast, my podcast is called Build with Layla Hormozi.

So thanks so much.

Thanks.