What Web2 and Web3 Can Learn From Each Other | Brett Malinowski

You're so connected in the Web2 world. I mean, you literally have one of the top marketing podcasts. And so I'm sure a lot of companies now know that you're in Web3 and are coming to you for Web3 services. But you gave me an interesting insight right before this, and I really want you to elaborate on this. So you told me that most Web2 companies are actually hesitant to go with Web3 native agencies. Share more on that, please.

Correct. Yeah. So basically there's like a handful of brands that will reach out. I remember speaking to someone that actually took 2 companies public, right? And very experienced operator. And, you know, she wanted to launch a token. I was like, so who else have you spoken And so she was like, look, I've spoken to every single Web3 agency out there and they're all a joke. And I'm like, what do you mean by that? And she's like, because there's a total lack of professionalism, right? And during that time, like every single person I was talking to was like, yeah, we just want to work with a Web2 agency that understands Web3. Like you guys are like perfect, blah, blah, blah. I think you've seen the same thing too, Brett. It's like, unfortunately in Web3, we haven't learned discipline yet. We haven't learned how to deliver on time, be on time, be respectful, learn how to like, you know, take care of ourselves too, right? And so kind of brings me back to my early gaming days too. And I think everyone's just kind of, you know, it's the wild, wild west. So I think we're starting to see a lot more professionalism because a lot more money is coming into this space. And I think it'll even out eventually. But as of right now, there's a strong preference, at least for big brands, because they need to protect themselves to have that professionalism.

Without a doubt. So I think it's kind of like a fine balance. We might see like the Web2 agencies might understand Web3 but don't truly live the culture. And so they'll maybe have some gaps. And the Web3 agencies really understand the culture, but maybe the cultures kind of lack those cordial, punctual traits.

This is the post that I wrote. Looking at now, I was like, there needs to be a Web3 course on how to be a professional, how to be on time, how to deliver, how to communicate, how to be respectful, how to focus, how to have humility, you know? Okay.

So if you are a Web3 native agency and you're trying to get one of these clients, what do you think those basics are that they should be hitting? Is it just like putting a lot of focus on their onboarding process or just like what could they possibly do to maybe get over this?

I think, you know, at the end of the day, the quote I keep coming back to is instead of trying to be interesting, be interested. This is like one of those Pious Guy things like, yeah, listen, right? And honestly, it is like, let's say I talk to you, Brett, what are the goals exactly? What are you trying to achieve and can we do it? And not being just one of those, let's say, agencies out there that say we can do everything and volunteer for everything. One of my podcast co-hosts is Neil. His agency has about 800, 900 people. And interestingly enough, his number one referral source for new customers right now is not SEO. It's not YouTube. It's actually referrals. And it's because you do a damn good job and then people refer you, right? Your customers refer you, but also the lifetime value of your customers. They stay a lot longer because you do a damn good job.

That's really just the snowball. Like, your first client's always going to be the hardest one. And then, I mean, another good thing is work with other agencies to get clients. And if you do good work with that agency, They're going to bring you on. So it's from all spectrum, but word of mouth is very, very powerful these days. And a lot of people look past that. So I think it's really interesting. So when you see these conversations or you see these people go with Web2 agencies specifically to understand Web3, are you seeing success out there? Are they having a good experience? Who has done a good job in your experience?

Let's use Neil's company as an example, right? So for Neil's company, they work with FTX, which is, you could say, well, they're an exchange, maybe they're like Web 2.5 or whatever. So one of our clients is Immutable and then the other client is Bittrex, right? And so I don't really do client work, but sometimes I'll listen to some of the calls to see how they're doing and all that. And so what's happening on those calls, it's like, okay, here's the strategy piece, right? So strategy is actually the thinking piece. And here's the tactics. I think the problem with most Web3 native agencies right now, because they're new to the agency game for the most part, it's like, oh, let's just focus on tactics the whole time, right?

Yeah.

Whereas like, actually, I'll give you a really good example. There's a company called Tokenology. And the CEO of that company used to be the president of Sony for the last 30 years or so, right? And this guy has all the relationships in the world. Like when you talk to them, it's like, we just want to do a good job. There's no ego. And we're not trying to just, you know, make money very quickly, right? Once you get a little older, you start to realize like making money slowly is better.

100%. And I think that that's something that a lot of people are just so not used to because our space moves so quickly. And it's like you have to build up hype, you have to launch in 6 weeks, and you have to make a lot of money on the mint. And then we're going to figure out the actual product side. What's the best broad marketing advice for Web3 people? Like if you are running an agency, let's say you kind of got that communication down, you have a client. What do you think are like some Web3 strategies that you see working for marketing?

Yeah, you know what's interesting? And you've probably talked about this on the pod before, but I want to get people to think about this in the world of Web2 a little bit, right? And to be honest, I hate the dichotomy because it's like—

Yeah, right.

In 10 years we won't be saying that, right?

Yeah.

And so, but like right now, okay, fine, you can have these 2 sides. But a company like HubSpot, SaaS tool, right? So what they do is they give away their CRM for free, their tool, and then basically you upgrade, you start using it more, and then, you know, they give you a crippled version, but then eventually you upgrade and your team starts using it. That's how they're a publicly traded company. I believe free mints are basically, you know, this is known in SaaS as product-led growth, meaning that you give the tool away for free. The free mints, in my opinion now, which is kind of what we're planning to do with ours, That is product-led growth. And the thing now with this current meta is that, okay, you do this free mint, but now you've given away this free tool, but you still have to deliver, right?

It's a serious problem. I actually just made a video on this that came out a few days ago about these people who get a few million dollars upfront and then they never really had a business model for their project. They were just so focused on selling it out that there's no focus on incoming revenue streams. And then they start seeing money drying up, then they get very absent from the project, and then all of a sudden they just hand it off to the community. And they're gone. And so it's really not the best structure to be starting a business.

I mean, look, they've gotten really good at marketing and sales, but they haven't gotten good at like actual product and actual customer development. And that's the stuff you have to learn. You have to learn how to like operate.

And that's what I've seen with so many teams. And that's why, like in the NFT Academy, we're really trying to like encourage people to work together because you have like very strong product teams but no ability to get awareness and then the best marketing teams, but then their project fails immediately and crashes. And then sometimes people have great ideas, but there's no product market fit too. But it's just so many different people that are trying to do everything when I really think they should be specializing and thinking about the agency model for themselves and just doing what they're good at and then teaming up with other people or real brands that have good product.

That's well said. I think when you actually lock in and focus on one thing, then you become known for that and everyone talks about you, right? By the way, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, right? When people have asked in the past, like, what has led to your success? They both wrote one word on a piece of paper and they turned it around like it said focus, right? You're going to learn the hard way eventually if you don't want to focus.

I got shiny object syndrome and there's so many opportunities, especially in Web3 with like you could be the first in any industry. and really take it over. It's like, what do you settle down with? Without a doubt, I think for us that was something that we found out really early. Like, we're very good at the go-to-market strategy, and then we can connect people to the strongest in their field and just optimize our time. And then we're known for that overarching strategy, but other people action it. So Eric, you did mention that you're dropping a free mint coming up, and you have some of the best events I've ever been to at all these NFT—

Thank you.

NFT LA. What's the purpose of your project? What's your goal?

Brett, like, you love learning, you love teaching. The same thing for me, right? And I love learning. I love teaching and I want to train and invest in the next generation of entrepreneurs. So that's what the mission is of Leveling Up Heroes. But the whole thing for me is like, okay, this is something I can work on for the rest of my life because I have the domain leveling up and I wrote a freaking book called Leveling Up. And so I can get behind this thing, right? Like I look at life as a game and I just want to help people like win the game of entrepreneurship. And then I want to invest in the top 1% of these people and then also provide the community a chance to also invest in these people too. And that's like a mission you can get behind.

100%. Because like there is no endpoint. For any entrepreneur. And so it's really cool. Like you can get a baseline of people that have the same goal and then people who do excel and are showing that they're going to put the work in, you can kind of handpick to help level up by hand. So I think it's a really important mission and that's never going to stop because it's the further you go up, the more you can help more people. So.