Will Lower Rates Spark a Marketing Boom? Hormozi’s $105M Funnel, Hate for Course Sellers | Ep. 3028

We're going to start first. The first episode is for a podcast episode. Neil, how important is it to have a microphone?

I don't think it's that important. I think—

That's a lie.

Whatever works. That's the lie.

That's the only thing that matters.

I don't know about that.

Neil doesn't have his microphone, guys, but we're going to— don't worry, guys, we're going to record in person next time. The sound will get better. So, Neil, I mean, today, so Chair Powell. So we'll start a little bit with kind of interest rates and how it affects marketing. So he just spoke at the Jackson Hole event, and I think there's actually a crypto event going on over there as well. And so Neil had this topic here on if we will see a bull run in marketing with lower rates. I think that's a good place to start. So Neil, what do you think? Because I'll tell you what, Neil, I was actually holding to deploy a little bit.

Yeah.

Because I thought he was going to come in a little more on the pessimistic side, right? Because everyone's monitoring to see what he's going to say. But I opened up CoinMarketCap and everything jumped. I was like, oh, and then I looked at his language. I was looking at Twitter. I asked Grok what he said. And it looks like he's saying that, hey, it looks like we're in a good place. We're going to stop maybe looking at that 2% inflation target. And it looks like we're going to have some cuts coming, right? At least he said September. So what did you hear?

Yeah. So the summary is they gotta look at the data, but based on the data, they're open to cutting if it needs to be cutting. And he was more positive about that versus the past. And September's job data should end up coming out before they make their decision on whether to hold the rates steady or cut. And when I say the September jobs data is technically jobs data for August that, you know, that you end up getting in September because there's a little bit of a lag before you can get the jobs data. Now here's what's interesting, because we work with both enterprises and SMBs, and I know you do too. The rates don't have as big of an impact on the enterprise corporations as they do for SMBs. What we've really seen in this market, because rates are high and borrowing is tougher, and I know Besant said in Q3 or Q4 we're going to start seeing more deregulation. Whatever that may be, we'll have to just wait to see it. We think this is going to cause marketing to grow for agencies who are focusing on SMBs more than enterprise because borrowing is cheaper, credit card rates will hopefully become cheaper, and then people spend more on ads like Meta and stuff like that, and it causes people to make more revenue and It all goes in a circle.

Have you heard of Bessent's 333 plan? By the way, guys, don't I sound amazing? Send me a DM if you think I sound amazing and Neil sounds like crap. So Neil, have you heard of the Bessent 333 plan?

I have not heard of the 333 plan, but I'm guessing it's related to like how they're making money, like cutting tariffs and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, you're on the right track. So Bessent's target is 3% real GDP growth. That's number one. The second one is 3% budget deficit-to-GDP ratio. Right now, our budget deficit-to-GDP ratio is not good. And also, he wants a 3 million barrels per day increase in US oil production. So I don't know about the last one because this is an AI overview on the 333, but I do think if we can get 3% real GDP growth and get the budget deficit in a better spot, he's saying he's really counting on the AI boom cycle. So That remains to be seen. And I think he's counting on a lot more business productivity. But what I will say is, you know, those of you that— going back to the interest rates real quick, there's a difference between dovish versus hawkish stance when it comes to interest rates. So dovish means— a dovish stance means favoring lower interest rates, right? Whereas a hawkish stance means you're favoring higher interest rates. And actually, Powell has been pretty hawkish for the last few years or so, and rightfully so. Maybe a little too long, but what does he call— he gets called Too Late Powell sometimes, right? But dovish stance, he's kind of moved into this dovish mode, and that is grounds for— this is why crypto jumped this morning, right? So I was just looking at Bitcoin, it was down to $112,000 or so. And then after he spoke, it went up to $116,000. And then I think Ethereum jumped like 8%, 9% or so.

Wow.

from 4,100, 4,200 to 4,600 or so. So I don't know, like the economy seems shaky to me still, but the markets don't speak for the economy.

Yeah, but that's— I know we're on a marketing podcast. That's the most entertaining thing I hear from crypto people. A lot of them are saying, oh, it's not correlated to the economy or anything like that. Crypto's different than the US dollar and markets and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, yes, but a lot of the crypto holders are institutions. And when the market's great, crypto's great. When things start going really bad, it affects crypto prices negatively as well.

Yep. So look, when interest rates come down, that means borrowing is easier, and that means people are more aggressive with their spending habits, right? And you look at the— by the way, I've never seen the real estate market, I don't know if you have, locked up like it has been for the last couple years. And it's because of interest rates. Everything is driven by interest rates. It's a cycle. It comes up, comes down, comes up, comes down. The economy is supposed to be like that. It's supposed to be driven in cycles. We just haven't had one in a while because we've created this— we had this money printing—

Artificial boom period for a very long time.

Yeah.

But no, going into this, and this is another similar topic that I have on the sheet, talking about how marketing is growing for SMBs because of the rate cuts, I genuinely believe it'll start helping. Enterprise companies are starting to, um, agency, independent agencies are starting to do better, but I think it has nothing to do with the economy when it comes to enterprise. Why is that? Because we're seeing 2 trends right now. Did you see the Dentsu earnings call?

No.

Right. Their CEO in Japan, he didn't explicitly say it, but is hinting Dentsu is one of the big ad, uh, agency holdcos out there. They own like Merkle, iProspect, uh, uh, Kara, and the list goes on and on. And they're talking about how, um, in essence, they're, you know, I've known this for a while because I got hit up by Dentsu for, um, you know, they ended up selling Mute6, but they hit us up for that. Uh, but the, but the reason I, I know the Dentsu side is, you know, there's rumor mills. You just know some people working. And Dentsu, the rumor mill, is looking to divest everything outside of Japan. So the whole Dentsu Aegis network, if you want to talk about Americas or Europe or APAC excluding Japan, they're looking to divest the whole business. And then the other rumor is WPP, which their stock has been in the shitter for a while, is looking to divest WPP or GroupM. And the rumor is potentially Accenture may end up buying it. So when you're seeing this turmoil with these holdcos and these ad agencies, And there's a few big ones like Omnicom, Dentsu, WPP, Publicis, right? IPG, although IPG is merging, right? Supposedly the merger will go through. But when you look at these and these, some of these players are doing $15, $20-ish billion. And these companies like Dentsu and stuff make announcements, we're cutting 8% of staff or 10% or whatever it may be, right? I don't have the top number off the top of my head, but I think it was 8%. It starts creating alarm signals for the clients. So what we're seeing in the enterprise end is people worried about the holding companies. A lot of them have a ton of debt or they have other issues and they're starting to shift the budget to independent agencies. Now that doesn't mean the marketing industry is picking up, that just means money is shifting from one pot to another. But the pots that they're shifting away from are really massive.

Yeah. So I mean, what's the key takeaway here for the audience?

If you're an independent agency and you do good work and you're focusing on enterprise, you should see things pick up, but it's not necessarily the economy. Don't think of it as like a false signal. Maybe some of it will be, but it's more so because the holding companies are having issues and we're hearing it from customers left and right. They're starting to Migrate away from the holding companies or look for alternatives.

Yeah, I don't— so my take on this, I mean, putting a long-term view on it. And so short-term, yeah, I agree. I don't think there's much more I have to add there, but I don't know if this holding company model works out in the long term where you're gobbling up other— because they're throwing people at the problem, right? And I just think in the world that we're moving to, it's just you and I know a lot of people that are, that have been net cutting people, unfortunately, but they're getting a lot more efficiencies from other areas in the business, right? And so that's just how it's going to be. And I think long, long term, by the way, I don't know if you and I talked about this yesterday, but people are worried about jobs and everything. But when you think about it, the jobs that happened before when most people were farmers, eventually those jobs got taken away and everyone's freaking out about that, right? Or even back in the day when the printing press came out, everyone's freaking out about that. It's like, oh my God, like we can't read newspapers, right? And then people started freaking out about, oh, they're going to lose their factory jobs. But these are jobs that people actually don't really want to do. And that's going to allow people to work on more creative things over time. So sure, there might be some short-term job displacement, but in the long term, I think everyone's going to be okay. They're going to want to work on things that they want to work on. That's long, long term. And I think long term, the holding company model, I think it's worked out well for these companies in the past. I just don't think that's a game that is worth playing for the long term based on how much more efficiencies we're going to gain. So the thing I want to call out too, you call out the economy for a second. Remember we talked about the Restaurant Performance Index?

You mentioned that. I forgot what the Restaurant Performance Index is, but I'm assuming that's related to how well restaurants are performing.

Exactly. So here, I'll just share this with you real quick. So Restaurant Performance Index, can you see this?

Okay. Yeah.

Okay. So whenever the Restaurant Performance Index edges downward, so it was -0.1%, and when it's negative like this, you can see here in 2020, those of you that can't see this right now, it dropped a lot, right? Where it dropped down 4% or so. And this was during COVID And then when there's a recession over here, it drops quite a bit, right? So whenever it drops quite a bit, when it starts edging down consistently, this is something you want to pay attention to because people just aren't going to restaurants as much anymore. Now, in this case, it's not that bad. Look, it edges down here and there in 2016, you know, 2013 and all that. But if it starts really going down consistently, then we know there's an issue. Like, look, look, in 2023, this looks like maybe 2023 going into 2024, it came down a little bit too. And this is when you and I felt the B2B recession. Yeah.

So yeah, but it's definitely going up based on that chart, and then it went down a little bit and now it's starting to go back up. So hopefully it keeps going up.

Yep. Warren Buffett likes looking at railroad data. So what I have on the screen right here is this Association of American Railroads. And so you can look at rail traffic data and you can see 2025 is in the darker blue line, and then you have 2024 in the lighter blue one. And right now it's still kind of trending above 2024. So if it starts to look really bad and trends downwards, these are things that you can look at. So you can look at the Restaurant Performance Index and then you can look at railroad data. Neil and I, this is not financial advice. This is just what I like looking at because I hear it from the pros. Anything you want to add?

Look, eventually things have to start turning around. The question is when, and it's too hard to time a market. Just the way Eric and I look at business and marketing is Double down and invest in the things that you know are great for the long term. And in the short run, you're going to take a lot of licks and it's going to be very painful, but that's how you come ahead of your competition. And this is why Eric and I are really happy none of us are private equity backed, because a lot of the private equity companies have done very little acquisitions. They haven't really invested much in growth. All they've done is cut, cut, cut. And the reasons they— the main reason they've done the cut, cut, cut model is because they put a lot of debt on the business when the private equity firms bought it. So you got these debt payments and you got to be in a certain range when it comes to profitability or else the banks get pissed off at you and you have other consequences. So that makes them be very conservative with their investments and their future outlook because the last thing they want to do is miss any of their debt payments. Think of it like a mortgage payment, right? You can only default for so long. But on the flip side, Eric and I, the last few years, I don't know your numbers, but I can speak for myself and I'm going to ask you, our profit has gone down because we've reinvested so much. I'm assuming you're in a similar camp.

Oh, bless you. We've had to because we were in trouble a while back.

Yeah, but your revenue overall is larger, correct? And our revenue has been growing overall. You know, some years, you know, it's a little bit choppy or growth slowed down, but still we're pretty much growing overall. But our profit is down even though our revenues are much higher than they were years ago. And the reason being is we reinvested and we invested in things like international expansion. And I always get the number wrong because I always tell people we're like in 20-something countries, but I was on a—

Yeah.

presentation with Nick the other day and he's like, yeah, we have offices in 28 countries and people on the ground in 35. It was something like that that he said. I could be a little bit off, but that was expensive. That wasn't millions of dollars. It was tens and tens of millions of dollars, right? And that's just money out of my pocket. And you look at Eric, he built Carrot and Carrot wasn't cheap. I don't know how much he spent on that, but it must be an arm and a leg by now.

Yep. Arm and a leg on talent, especially right now. So, you know what Jeff Bezos said? Remember what he said? He's like, whatever you see with Amazon right now, it took us 3 years to get here. And whatever we're building right now, we're already onto the next 3 years. And that's how we're looking at it. And you bring up private equity too. There's a quote that sticks with me. I think it was Naval Ravikant that said this, but if someone can tell you what to do, you don't own it, right? So if you're private equity backed and they own 51% or something, they're telling you what to do and they're telling you, you need to make these cuts over here, you need to do this stuff over here, and you need to play our playbook. You're not getting— and it's fine if you're okay with that. But I think in general, for you and me, it's not the way.

Yeah, our personalities don't work with someone telling us what to do like that.

By the way, there's one more quote I want to leave people with too, kind of going back to investing for a second, and we'll jump back to marketing. But Howard Marks, remember Howard Marks, the investor, Oaktree Capital? So he— I'm paraphrasing here, but the best time to invest is when you don't want to. So when the news cycle is terrible, when all the numbers are looking bad, when everyone is pessimistic, right? That is the best time to invest. And most people, 99% of people won't do that, right? So you can apply that to business as well. You can apply that to not just financial investments that you make, but time investments that you make and things like that. So just wanted to throw that in there.

But you know, he lives right by you, right? Does he?

Where does he live?

Homeby Hills.

Oh, I didn't know that. I just know they have an office in downtown LA and I have some friends.

I thought it was Century City, no?

Maybe both. I don't know. Yeah.

But I know he has a home in Homeby Hills and his partner did as well, but his partner sold the home maybe to him or someone else. But yeah, they're right there by Beverly Hills, Bel Air, and all that area.

If you're in B2B, here's the deal. LinkedIn account-based marketing sucks, but it doesn't have to. With Karrot, it allows you to create personalized ads towards your customers and also personalized landing pages that align with the ads. So you're going to have higher conversions and influence pipeline reporting to prove that your ABM works. So if you want to learn more, just go to karrot.ai and you can join the waitlist. Again, it's Karrot, K-A-R-R-O-T.ai, and we'll see you on the other side. Yeah, dude, I got a good one here. So why people hate course sellers. So here, let me just start this off. I was reading this on Twitter the other day. So this guy Chris Hoffman, he was actually a YPR and he was at the YPO Miami event, the marketing summit. So this guy Lee McCabe works in private equity. He posted this on LinkedIn. So Lee McCabe says, it's not private equity, it's a Ponzi scheme of aspiration. Okay, so it's not private equity, it's a Ponzi scheme of aspiration. There's a whole ecosystem now built on one promise: you can buy a business with no money down and become financially free in 12 months. It sounds like M&A, it sounds like private equity, but it behaves like a multi-level marketing scheme because here's what's really happening. The people selling you the dream aren't acquiring HVAC companies or running $5 million revenue businesses. They're running content businesses and you are the product. The playbook is painfully predictable. Number 1, record a podcast episode explaining how anyone can buy a business, quote unquote. Number 2, show a staged screenshot of an LOI or closing dinner. Number 3, offer a $10,000 mastermind or cohort-based course. Number 4, rinse and repeat until someone asks for audited results. It's not illegal, it's just clever marketing, and it works because the audience wants it to be true. And these are liars lying to people who want to be lied to. They're not targeting operators, They're targeting dreamers, people who don't actually want to run a business. They want to escape their job. They want the feeling of momentum, the illusion of progress. And the $3,000 course is the price of hope. They're selling dreams and dopamine hits to 99% of people who will never take action but will spend $3,000 to feel like they're closer to the life they'll never build. I'll just end it with this piece real quick. So one of our mutual friends said this. I remember I was sitting in a room with some executives. We're talking about we're launching a course, right, for Jim Rohn, right? And the guy said it in front of the room. He's like, guys, guys, we are not selling progress. We are selling perceived progress. And I was like, man, I don't want to sell perceived progress. But when he said it, everyone started laughing. I was like, yeah, that doesn't feel good, right? And this is what Lee is saying here. And I just remember I've talked to this guy before. But anyway, what do you think about this?

I'm with it. I totally agree. I do think a small percentage of the people who take courses get tons of value and it improves their lives. I think 97, 98, 99+ percent of people who take the courses get very little value and it really hurts them because they just spent all this money and they got nothing. And I think some of these course providers have gone above and beyond. I've heard of people that, no joke, will tell you, go here to sign up for a credit card. They'll give you a $10,000 limit. What's your credit? And all this kind of stuff. They help them sign up. And then they go charge their card for 10 grand when they can't afford it. And I look at that and I was like, this is just terrible business. And I know someone who went through that model and I told them, you shouldn't end up going in. This is a terrible business. And they got tons of chargebacks and they were like, oh, because of this. And I'm like, no, you're only selling a crap ton of courses because you're promising people they will become rich. And the reality is, is you can't guarantee someone's going to be rich. You can't guarantee job placement. You can't guarantee, you know, you're going to make 6 figures. Let's say your course is on teaching sales because I see a lot of those online. If you went and you ran ads and you said, I'm going to teach you sales for 3 years, you need to stop going to clubs and partying. You need to stop having fun. You need to focus on everything that I'm teaching you. Your first few jobs are going to suck, and I'm going to teach you how to get better at sales. And you also need to have a natural personality to do well in sales, where if you don't, you can still do well, but maybe you won't do as well selling most things. Maybe you need to sell technical products or whatever it may be. And if you meet these requirements and you do this for 3 years and you put in a lot of work, you're not going to make a lot of cash, but year 4, 5, 6, you'll start seeing the light at the tunnel, and then you can start making $200,000, $300,000, $400,000. I'm going to teach you management skills and all this. Your sales are going to suck because no one wants to put in all that work and lose money for years. And that's a true, real reality, even in marketing. Eric, how long have you been doing this for?

16 years.

Yeah, I'm on 24.

Yeah.

So we've both been doing this a long time. And I would say the biggest reason that both you and I are doing decently well, I'm not saying Eric's doing poorly or I'm doing poorly. I'm not saying either of us are doing great, but let's just call us average. We're not creating these lovable type companies. where we're getting to $100 million in revenue in less than a year, right? We're not that successful. Not trying to talk trash, Eric, but you know, I'm assuming you agree that's the reality.

Yeah, I agree.

The only reason we do decently well is because we've been persistent for so many years and we've taken so many licks and it's painful, but that's the true reality of entrepreneurship and being a marketer. Like you got ups and downs and dealing with algorithms and stuff that goes great for you some periods and stuff that goes terrible for you and you don't remember the great moments. You just complain about the moments that suck. Yeah.

So here's my take on it. So I do find value in courses. I know Neil's probably never paid for a course in his life, but early in my career, even when I was broke, I don't know if this site is still active anymore, but I used to go to this website called thevault.bz and I used to download like these $2,000, $3,000 courses, right? And in some cases I would even shell out my own money. As a couple years went by, I would pay for courses and I would even pay for masterminds back in the day. I remember there's the War Room Mastermind, right? And I would pay for peer groups. Groups and things like that. I got value from them, but the reason why people hate course sellers, in my opinion, is I think 99% of course sellers, they are selling the dream and they're not actually selling something that's going to give you the outcome that they're promising. And that's why people hate them, right? And so I think, look, if it's legit and it's adding value, again, I certainly got a lot of value from the courses that I've been through. You just got to make sure that you filter correctly, right? And I think someone we can call out here in a good way is when you look at Alex Hormozi, he did his $105.5 million webinar about a week ago or so, right? So over the weekend, Guinness World Record, congratulations to him. I think he sold 3 million books over the weekend. So I think I saw somewhere it was reported that he basically said, when it was all said and done, he made $105.5 million on the webinar, right? And a lot of people were poo-pooing him on Twitter just saying, oh, turns out he's a course grifter. Turns out he's this and that. But the reality is, I've read Alex's books. I've seen his stuff before. He's actually been there, done that on the business side, both him and Leila, right? Amazing job. And the courses that he has, he largely gives away for free. And then he has an educational component too, right? And then he has the other stuff with private equity and all that. So, I think in that scenario, that's like, okay, that's someone that you can go to. Plus, a lot of his good stuff is available for free. Now, I actually wanted to spend some time, Neil, for us talking about just unpacking his webinar and then talking about his upsell funnel. So I actually looked at a couple of things and then you maybe can react to it because I'm assuming you're occupied with other things.

You sent me the YouTube video link when it was live, but I watched a little bit about it and That was it. So because I'm not— and it's nothing that I'm not saying his content's bad or anything. His content's probably amazing for the webinar. It's just more so I'm not the target audience. Correct.

I just, in my opinion, I'm watching it, one, because I'm bored. Two, I want to see how he's marketed it, right? Because sometimes it'll give me ideas. So sometimes if I watch you do something, you might do something a certain way. I'll try to spin it in a certain way on my side and vice versa, right? You do the same thing. So we're always trying to learn from each other. That's a lesson from, from, from, for everyone. not just from each other, but from other people too. So I was observing this and he was live. I would go on YouTube, like I'd be eating lunch in the morning, right? And I'd be like, oh man, okay, his webinar's live. And then I might open my YouTube app. I'm like, oh damn, it's like 3:00 PM. He's still going. And then I opened it again. It's like 6:00 PM. He's still going on the webinar, right? So it was like a 9:00 AM to 7:00 PM or 8:00 PM webinar. And he kept going. He brought on a lot of guests. I think he flew in Alex Becker. So Alex Becker's got a good following from like a crypto standpoint and Hyros guy, right? And 3 million books sold. He made it a— it was almost like, um, kind of like a spectacle. So there's a lot of learnings, but it was entertaining too. He had like a Hormozi hotline too where people can call and he answer questions, kind of like how Dave Ramsey does it. Um, and he had the Guinness, um, World Record people dressed up there to present the award to him. So they're standing there like in the middle of the presentation, they walk up and say, okay, here's the record, like congratulations, you hit it, right? Um, but what I thought was really smart, Neil, was that he sold a $6,000 book bundle. So you get 200 books, right? And the whole idea behind a $6,000 bundle was, hey, if you're an entrepreneur and if you can afford it, I would like you to pay it forward and give these codes out, right? So imagine, Neil, if I sold $6,000 of books to you, 200 books, what are you going to do? You'd be like, okay, I have 200 books now. What am I supposed to do? All these people start tweeting about it. All these people start talking about it, right? And then everyone starts claiming these books. And so, That creates more of a spectacle or fanfare around what he's doing. But the $6,000 bundle—

Let's go back. I'm a little confused on this. So let's say you, Eric, buy a $6,000 book bundle, right? So you got 200 books. Yep. All right. And the books don't get shipped to you. You're saying you're getting— you get a code, you get one of the 600 books. I mean, one of the, one of the 200 books, correct? I'm assuming you get it shipped to you.

So here's what I know. So I tested it and I didn't buy the 6,000 package. I bought 15 books and I just gave them away. So I got a code for that, right? And then I just shared it with a bunch of people and I just gave the codes away. So it doesn't, to your point, it doesn't automatically ship. You have to claim each code and you just keep sharing with people.

So you get 15 separate unique codes and you say, hey, people go buy—

It was just one code.

Oh, but it's only valid for 15 books.

Yeah.

So people just use it until it's done. Now, if someone claims the code, do they have to pay for shipping or it's all free?

They have to pay for shipping, $10, yeah.

Okay, so they're buying the book.

Free plus shipping.

Yeah, it's free, they just got to pay for shipping.

Which means, by the way, he has your credit card information.

Yeah, and then does he sell anything else or was he just selling books?

I'm glad you asked that. I'm going to get to that in a second. So the $6,000 is just the beginning. So obviously you can buy one book and then you can buy bundles. So what he has done here is he's used the Russell Brunson formula of the ascension ladder, right? Everything he's done here, so Neil and I have seen a lot of this growing up. I think he's done direct marketing at a very high level, probably the highest level that I've seen. And so before I jump into the upsells here, Neil, I just want to call out that there's scarcity. It's the first day that he did this webinar. He's like, hey, this $6,000, here's a countdown. This is going to go away, blah, blah, blah, right? So he's closing the cart. So when you do a launch, you got to close the cart because there's got to be urgency, right? Oh my God, this is gonna be gone. Now get this, he doesn't actually— so you would think that Saturday he's done. He's not done. Sunday, there's an encore. Of course he planned this encore, right? So there's an encore and he goes for like, I think he goes for like 7, 8 hours again. And of course you're gonna get another round of sales. And then I think he goes for another, like he goes for next day Monday as well. I think there's another encore too, right? And by the way, leading up to this, I think he spent a good amount of money on Meta. He had a bunch of people dressed in green suits running around Vegas and all that. I think he bought like an ad on one of the hotels promoting his book as well. So there's a lot of upfront work he put into this. I want to call that out, but scarcity works. The pre-marketing worked out really well. I think he chose a good date too. He chose a Saturday where there's not a lot of— there's not anything big in the news cycle happening, so he can own the news for that weekend. And so I think he was very thoughtful across the board. So now let me tell you about the upsell funnel. Are you ready?

Okay.

So the core offer is one book, $30. Okay, that's number one. The first upsell is, well, this is beyond the first upsell. So the first upsell, you can buy like 15, 30 books, whatever, right? I think one of the core upsells, the core first upsell, $6,000, 200 books. Okay. Second upsell, $18,000 offer, 800 books.

Okay.

Third upsell, $100,000, 4,000 books. I actually saw someone on YouTube. He spent $225,000 on books. Okay. And so Matt Paulson tweeted this, people are buying it. Alex is the greatest info marketer of all time, right? And then he puts his code, you can redeem my 200+ free plus shipping books if you want. So we can go ahead and react to this, but there are people that bought these. What?

Why would you buy a book for $6,000 or 200 books versus buying 500 books or 1,000 books? Like, I don't understand the benefit.

I don't either. I'm sure there's other stuff included with this. Oh, when you do the $6,000 upsell or the $18,000, there's like, you can go hang out with Alex. There's like, you get access to, I think there's like a private web— like VIP webinar. And then anybody that's paid the $6,000, $18,000 plus, they can all hang out in Vegas. And I'm assuming that anybody that's paid $18,000 plus, you want to hang out with those people. It's that type of thing, if that makes sense.

So they're getting extra benefits the more books they buy? Because I'm like, if you only need one book, why do you spend more?

Yeah, a lot of people want access and a lot of people want to hang out with people that are— it's a status thing at the end of the day, right? And so One guy asked here, so Helpful Landlord asked, how's the $100K offer presented over the phone? So Matt Paulson says, you get an email from Leila to people who bought the $18K option. So I'm assuming $6K, you get an email, $18K, you get another email. And so, okay, but what's the $100K offer? Surely it's not just more books to your point, right? So you get to hang out with them for a VIP day in Vegas. And yeah, that's what it is.

For $100 grand? Yeah, $100 grand. And they sell a lot of them. Good for them.

I have no idea, but if he made $105.5 over the weekend, fantastic job. Um, I think the other thing that I, I think is worth calling out too is, is he built up a lot of goodwill over the years with his first book, the second book, a lot of the— so you, you, you think about Gary Vaynerchuk, jab, jab, jab, right hook. I think he threw a really big right hook here.

He—

it's not like he can do this every year. Um, I think if he wants to do this again, he's probably gonna have to wait like a like a while to do this again. Um, that's my take on it. What's your take?

Uh, I think you can only do this once a year, once every few years, because if you keep doing it too often, then it loses its pizzazz, right? You can't just do launches over and over again, or else what you'll find is—

You and I have done launches and they are so tiring.

Yeah, and this is why we don't do any of them. You and I like sticking to boring B2B businesses because you get consistent recurring revenue.

Yeah. Yeah. I prefer to just stack it like that. Not that he's not stacking it with his other businesses, but a launch, the amount of work he put into, I think he did way more than anybody that I've seen. But you and I did it for Agora, right? Agora was big on courses back in the day. You and I recorded a course, you've done a couple for them, and then we've done our own too. But the problem I think with launches is if you're not going to do $105 million or so, Is once you do a launch, you're getting ready for the next launch and the next launch after that and the next launch after that. It never stops. And it— you're just constantly in a state of being frantic, in my opinion. Whereas with B2B, you can boringly stack it over time. And that's how it works. So look, I think this is great. I think this is a model for people to follow if they want to continue to do launches over time. And congratulations. And that is it for today, guys. And we'll see you tomorrow.

Thank you.