YouTube Beginning Budgets, Ad Bidding, & Audience Targeting with Gideon Shalwick of Veeroll

76,974 YouTube views in 10 days.

Do you want to impact the world and still turn a profit? Then you're in the right place. Welcome to Growth Everywhere. This is the show where you'll find real conversations with real entrepreneurs. They'll share everything from their biggest struggle to the exact strategies they use on a daily basis. So if you're ready for a value-packed interview, listen on. Here's your host, Eric Siu.

What's the number one problem all businesses face? It's not sales, marketing, or product-market fit. It's hiring. We know just how hard it is, so we've compiled 25 hiring tips from top CEOs that I've interviewed here on Growth Everywhere and put it into a free resource just for you. Text 25TIPS to 500-500. 25 tips to hiring. 33444 to get the free resource now. Again, it is 25, the number 25, tips, T-I-P-S, 33444, and you'll get the free resource. Hello everyone, and welcome to this edition of Growth Everywhere, where we interview entrepreneurs and bring you business and personal growth tips. Today we have Gideon Shalwick, who's the founder of VeeRoll, which simplifies the creation and targeting of TrueView video ads on YouTube. And really help you generate targeted, highly converting traffic with YouTube promoted videos. Gideon, how are you doing today?

Hey, Eric. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on the show.

Yeah, thanks for being here. So why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about your background as it leads up to where you are today?

Oh gosh, yeah. Well, I guess it started for me about 9 years ago when I was still back in a job that was a fine job, but, you know, I wanted to start my own business. We ended up starting our business in Australia. We immigrated from New Zealand to Australia to do that and the first thing I did was write a book. I wrote a book and sold it online. Very quickly though, I realized that I didn't have a clue about online business and how to drive traffic. Traffic was the main thing. And so I went on a big journey. I went on a massive journey just to figure out how to get traffic and it took me about 2 years to really nut it out and figure out at least one part of it. And for 2 years I really wasn't making much money at all. But when I figured it out, you know, I launched a program with a business partner of mine. You know, we had over 10,000 subscribers to our newsletter within 2 weeks and about 1,000 paying members, monthly paying members within our first month of that business. And you know, that was a bit of an eye-opener to me to realize that hey, there's a lot of scale to be had here online. And since then I've done project and business after business and always one of the key drivers has been to figure out new and better and faster and more affordable ways to get traffic, to get really good quality traffic. So I did something in the YouTube niche where we set up a YouTube channel, we did get a lot of organic traffic from that. I think the channel is sitting over 36 million views.

Wow.

At the moment maybe 370,000 subscribers, something like that. It's doing really well. I went out on my own with my own YouTube channel that did quite all right, much more niched down. I started another business called Splashio that looked at sort of a small part of video production that's built up to over 70,000, 80,000 subscribers, around about there. And more recently it's been VeeRoll and VeeRoll is all about paid advertising and paid video Advertising, that is, and specifically looking at getting traffic through video advertising. And that's just been an exciting journey to say the least. And I think it's— I'm finally at a point where I think if I look back 9 years ago, wow, it would have been cool if we had this 9 years ago and my progress would have been so much faster.

So hold on a second, you said 36 million— you grew a channel to 36 million subscribers? Am I hearing that right?

No, views. 86 million views. Subscribers, we're about 360,000 subscribers, I think.

Okay, we're going to come back to that in a second, but first of all, I want the audience to know what VeeRoll really is and what the true benefit they would get from using it. So can you talk about that?

Yeah, sure thing. So VeeRoll is a platform that we've developed to help you create video ads. And so we started with YouTube video ads and, you know, looking at all the pain points that there are with YouTube video advertising. You know, things like helping you find the right targets. You know, that's often a big problem for people and you see that every day when you go on YouTube. You watch a video and then you see an ad in front of it that has absolutely nothing to do with your interests and you think, why on earth are they showing me this ad? So obviously there's a lot of advertisers still getting it completely wrong. So we help people with that, we've built a targeting tool that helps you really pinpoint exactly the people you want to target or at least the videos that they're watching and only showing your ads to those people. The second pain point is with the video production side of things. You know, often people may be interested in YouTube video ads but then they get stuck on the video production side and either they get stuck on thinking they should create the videos themselves or they need to hire a video production team and they just throw their hands up in despair and go, this is not for me. So that's the second thing that we solved, we've created some nice, very effective templates that people can use for creating their video ads and all you've got to do there is type in 5 lines of text and maybe upload a few images, hit a button and the video gets created for you. The third pain point is with setting up campaigns and managing your campaigns and so we built a campaign builder there that just simplifies the whole process for you. You don't even need to go into AdWords for setting it up. You set it all up inside VeeRoll, it gives you a little file that you then just upload to AdWords and voilà, you're done with that. We also built a campaign audit tool that helps you assess how well your campaign is going a day or two after you've started running it. Yeah, so the whole process is really about automating and making it easier and also much more effective to run video ads. And more recently we've also just started doing Facebook video ads as well. So we've got a Facebook ad module inside the platform that helps you create Facebook video ads as well now. It's still very elementary at this stage, but as we get more— go through the different stages, I guess, with Facebook, it allows us more access to the API, which gives us more flexibility. So that's coming up as well.

Got it. Okay. So do you have any specific anecdotes or case studies that you can share around this? Because even though I've had great experience with you, YouTube ads, not a lot of people are venturing into that space because like you mentioned, there's a lot of, you know, you have to worry about the script, you have to hire a video agency or all that type of stuff. So, you know, any stories you can share around, success stories around V-roll?

Yeah, sure thing. A recent case study that came about was from one of our customers, Travis Phipps. He runs an agency where he does paid advertising for his clients and he's just recently Or relatively recently started doing video ads as well and using V-roll to do that of course. And so one of these clients is a young, very talented singer, a 12-year-old singer by the name of Emily Faith on YouTube. And she was really interested in becoming famous and getting the word out there for her talent— singer-songwriter-actress. build an audience extremely quickly. You know, she went from just getting a few hundred views on her videos to within 2 weeks— or actually the stat that I can quote here on one of the blog posts is 76,974 YouTube views in 10 days. So it's almost 77,000 YouTube views in 10 days and that was just on 2 videos and all of that was done through paid ads. And so that was pretty cool, very exciting little case study there, and a lot of underlying benefits there. It's not just about the views, of course. It's about what you do with those views, how you, how you turn those views into fans, how you turn the fans into customers, etc., etc. So that's a pretty cool one.

Got it. Okay, so if I'm starting up with VeeRoll, you guys will have templates that I can choose from, and then you guys will help me with the targeting as well. Will you guys also tell me what type of ads I should be using, that type of stuff?

Yeah, we have a lot of training inside our platform. We also have a very active blog I guess that we update regularly. We try and do something there once a week or so. And you know, because it's a changing game, it's such a, you know, what shall I say, such an exciting field to be in. It keeps on changing, keeps on improving and so we always have new information updating on the blog. But yeah, so the— So we created basically tools to help you do all this stuff and automate a lot of it. So the targeting tool, you know, you just type in a keyword of the sort of keyword you think your target audience would be typing into YouTube search and then it gives you a bunch of suggestions for other keywords that your target audience is searching for on YouTube. And then based on that, you can go and build video lists that you can you know, video— lists of videos that you can show your ad in front of. And then of course with the video creation tool, you can select from templates. We've got a range of templates. We've been a little bit slow in updating them but we're building a team around that as well so we can have a lot more new templates coming through. So you can select something, select from a choice of 20 different music tracks, type in your text, upload your images, and you hit the button and you're done.

Love it. Okay. Now what type of opportunities are you seeing with YouTube ads today? Are there any specific statistics you can share?

Oh yeah, there's this massive opportunity right now. You know, it's interesting the competition going on now with Facebook and YouTube. Facebook is certainly taking on YouTube, especially YouTube ads in a massive way. YouTube is still bigger than Facebook. June last year, YouTube overtook Facebook for the first time in very long with unique visitors in the United States, and that trend has just been increasing. Not many people realize this, but YouTube is, in terms of unique visitors, is quite a bit bigger than Facebook now. So that's very interesting. The other interesting stat that I saw I think it was Business Insider, was that apparently— I don't know where they find this stat because I couldn't find it anywhere else— but apparently 500 million hours of video is watched on YouTube every single day. That's an incredible amount of video being watched. Often people quote the number of hours per minute that gets uploaded. I think it's about 300 hours of video uploaded to YouTube every minute.

Wow.

But I don't think that paints the real picture because you as an advertiser, you want to know how many eyeballs are there, how many people are watching videos on YouTube. And so looking at that 500 million hours of video watched on YouTube is staggering. You know, if you were to watch that on your own, it would take you 57,000 years or something like that just to watch one day's, you know, 500 million hours worth of video.

Wow.

Just to put it in perspective. You know, you could fit— I think it's— Jack Larson mentioned, I think it's 5 Super Bowls onto YouTube every day in terms of the views that YouTube's getting. So— or what was the number? I think it was 17 Game of Thrones most watched episode. You can fit onto YouTube every single day. So it's massive, you know, it is just incredibly And now with Facebook being on board with video ads as well, I mean, that's just getting more and more exciting by the day.

Got it. Okay, so obviously YouTube, number 2 search engine in the world right now, but Facebook is up and coming. You just talked about them going head-to-head, so what type of opportunities are you seeing in Facebook video right now?

Oh, I think it's huge. Interesting thing with Facebook ads is that we found it especially for newcomers, a little bit easier to get started with and especially when I guess when you use our templates, you don't even have to create the videos. It seems like there's easier levels to get started. You know, it seems like there's at least 3 levels. You know, I'm not a super pro with Facebook Ads just yet myself but I guess there's 3 levels. There's where you can just get your video up there on your timeline and boost that video as a promoted post and that's super easy, right? Like it's almost like child's play. I guess there's a second level where you can just use the normal Facebook Ads interface to set up ads without them going onto your timeline. And even that is also very easy. You get a little bit more flexibility there of course like putting in tracking pixels and figuring out your targeting— target audience a lot better, etc. And that's really easy to do as well. And then of course there's the Power Editor for more advanced users. So it seems like Facebook is catering for different levels quite well. Whereas with YouTube, it's relatively easy and that's been our task at Vero is to make it super easy for people to get started with YouTube ads. But it's certainly at a different level. But in saying that, once you crack it, there's a ton of traffic to be had on YouTube. But Facebook is definitely catching up so I think it's It's a very, very interesting space to be watching.

Yeah, no, I hear you on YouTube ads. I mean, looking at it, looking at the success I've had with YouTube ads, it's always about finding that little inkling of traction. And once you see that traction, you go all in on that and kind of drop the other things that you're doing. But once you get that, it's super scalable. And I think that's something that people don't understand, but you have to make the numbers work first. So what type of mistakes do you see people typically making when running video ads?

Mistakes— well, the most obvious one that all of us notice on YouTube is with the targeting. You know, as I said at the beginning, so oftentimes you go on YouTube and you watch a video and then you see this totally unrelated video ad in front of it and you just go ahead and click skip. Most people just go ahead and click skip and I think because of that a lot of people probably think, hey, this YouTube ad thing is not working. You know, most people just click skip. And it's interesting, and every time I go and speak in front of an audience, you know, I would ask people how many of you have seen these ads and go ahead and click skip, and then like almost 100% of the room mostly, you know, they have their hands up and say they mostly click on the skip button. So there's obviously something broken there with the targeting. And so I think that's a massive thing that advertisers really need to look at, making sure that they get their targeting right. And what we've discovered at V-roll is that when you go at least start off with just video placements, all of a sudden your targeting becomes so much better. Video placement is purely where you target a specific video or a specific set of videos that you know your target audience is watching, and then you're showing ads just in front of those videos. That's what our tool does. It helps you find those specific videos. That can make a massive difference to how well your videos are targeted. You know, we're getting phenomenal click-through rates on our videos and people are not clicking the skip button. So it's—

What kind of click-through rates are those?

Well, it depends a bit on how you define click-through rates here. The way we've been looking at it is clicks over views. We've had it as high as, you know, over 200% click-through rates.

Wow.

Measuring it by that metric. YouTube or AdWords measures it as clicks over impressions which I'm not sure why it's measured that way. It doesn't make a lot of sense to us but when we look at clicks over views which is, you know, because you're paying for the views, right? We've had some very high click-through rates. So that was— so that statistic is from just before the change happened with YouTube ads where they've changed how the call to actions work. We're still collecting some new data on new click-through rates with the new call to actions, but we— for our current campaigns, we haven't seen a significant drop in our traffic and clicks like that, but we really need to run a few more tests to just confirm that as well.

Got it.

Okay.

Yeah, I always thought it was interesting how they measured that way because the number is so small at the end of the day, right?

Right.

Okay. So what types of budgets should people be expecting to spend if they're just starting out with video ads?

Budget— actually before we go into budget, there's one other thing that's just critical that I've noticed people get wrong as well. The first thing was the targeting so make sure you get your targeting right and the second thing is your messaging inside your video. So those 2 things really need to match extremely well. So make sure you target the right people and then that you tell them the right message and when you do that, your conversion rates for the whole process will shoot through the roof. And you know, it seems so intuitively obvious when you hear it but yet so many people just completely get it wrong.

Right.

So in terms of budgeting, you know, it depends a bit on your industry that you're working in. Some industries are more competitive already and so more people bidding for the same videos and keywords and things like that so naturally you'll be— you'll have to pay a little bit more to get in the game. But you know, in general, you know, we've got our software set For the default at say $20 a day to run a test with and maybe $0.20 per view and oftentimes that's just where we start if we don't know much about the industry. If you know it's more competitive then we normally up the cost per view bid to maybe $0.50 or maybe $1 depending on the market and just see what happens and oftentimes You know, if you're bidding too low, you might notice that you're not getting any views and oftentimes when you just increase that to something higher, it just gets you in the game, gets you in the bidding game. It doesn't mean you'll end up paying that much for views but it just opens up the field for you to be seen and to be— it seems like that's the case at least, it opens it up so you can start getting views. And then you can always lower it again if you start seeing too expensive views coming through.

Right.

So yeah, those are roundabout the budgets but yeah, it depends on the industry Okay.

Now here's the thing with YouTube ads. You know, they have the in-stream ads, they have the in-display, and my experience has always been you avoid the in-display like it's a plague and you go for the in-stream. Do you guys do the same thing?

Not necessarily. You know, we do have some in-display ads running as well. I think what's interesting about in-display is that they're probably easier in some respects for getting set up. The nice thing about in-display ads is that you don't really need to have— I mean, I would still advise it, but it's not required to have an AdWords compliant landing page for your ad. And the reason, of course, for that is because for your in-display ad, when people click on it, they don't go to your landing page, they go to your video on YouTube. So your video on YouTube is your landing page, and of course, how can they not accept that as a you know, the AdWords compliant landing page. So and then from there you can send to your landing page of course. So in that sense it might be easier for some folks to get started with that or to give that a go if they're struggling to get their landing pages approved. But my advice is to go for getting your landing pages approved by AdWords. I think it's very good practice to be approved by them. You know if you're getting approved by AdWords then you'll be fine with Facebook and Got it. Okay.

So in terms of prioritization when it comes to targeting, would you say, okay, placements are number one? Would you put retargeting above that and then it's keywords? You know, how would you prioritize the targeting?

If you already have a retargeting list, then retargeting is probably going to get you faster and even better results than anything else. Keyword— sorry, video placements would be number 2 for me. So if you don't have retargeting lists already, you can start with video placements and in-stream ads, and then keywords would be number 3. And we don't really touch anything else. We just go retargeting, video placements, and keywords, and that's it. Okay, perfect.

So, okay, let's go back to what we talked about earlier today. You said you helped a channel grow to 360,000 subscribers with over 36 million views. Can you talk about this story?

Okay, so this is still back in the day when I was doing more organic kind of traffic. Back then we didn't call it content marketing but really it was content marketing. I'm just opening up the channel quickly. So the channel if people want to check it out is Freemagic Live Videos I think and I'm not involved in the business anymore. JJ is the that I did this together with. He's running that on his own now. Yeah, sorry, 308 subscribers— 308,000 subscribers I should say. And let's see the number of views. We're sitting on 36 million, yeah, just over 36 million views for that channel. So that one, so JJ and I— well, JJ back in 2009 approached me. You know, I met him through another gig, but he was a local magician in Brisbane here in Australia, and it was just after the GFC. And he approached me one day and said, hey Gideon, you know, GFC thing is pretty tough on me at the moment. We're not— I'm struggling to get gigs here in Brisbane. Can you help me set up this online thing? I noticed you've been doing well. Help me set this up. Maybe we can work out a deal. So I said, okay, looks cool. I'm you know, it'd be great to build another case study. So we went in partnership together. He did the magic and I did the video marketing. And so, you know, I said, okay, let's just give this thing a go for a month. And so we go into the streets of Brisbane, Brisbane City, and I'd have a— I'd be walking around with my little Handycam and he'd be walking around with a pack of cards in his hands. We just approached people randomly on the street and I'd be filming and he'd do this really incredible magic trick in front of them and just wow them and then, you know, get all the reactions. And then afterwards we'd go around the corner or something in a more quiet place and then record JJ showing people how the trick worked. And that just worked extremely well. You know, within a month we realized there's something there that got some really good traction and we just kept on building and building and building and building and it just grew very quickly from there. I was only with that business business for the first year and a half or so and then I handed it over to JJ to run because I wanted to create other businesses and use that one as a case study. But I guess, how do they say, the rest is history. Yeah, and it's still going very strong today of course.

Okay, so what's your key takeaway from that one? Is it, you know, is there any specific tactic you used or was it just you guys were pumping out a ton of content?

We pumped out a ton of content and we gave people what they want. We gave them exactly what they wanted. They didn't just want to see the cool reactions, they also wanted to see how it's done so that they could go and do it in front of their friends and be cool in front of their friends. So it was very much just figuring out what it is, who these people were exactly, and then giving them what they want. It's not too different on doing video advertising. The luxury with video advertising is that you can do it much faster.

Yeah.

With Free Magic Life, it took us quite a while to build up considerable traction, but with paid ads, you know, you can, you can get to that audience instantly. You can get to them really, really quickly if you've got the, if you've got the budget. And same thing, you've got to make sure you target the right people and then give them what they want, you know, give them exactly what they want. And that makes, that makes all the difference. Perfect.

So for VeeRoll, what's one unique thing you guys are doing to acquire more customers today aside from the video ad stuff?

Aside from video ads, We are— I'm not sure if anything we're doing is super unique, but things that's worked really well for us is doing webinars, so live webinars with audiences. That's helped us a lot in getting more customers and increasing our cash flow. Something else that has done really well for us is guest posting, so guest posting on other very highly visited websites or blogs that have access to the audience that we want access to. That's worked really, really well. Of course our own content marketing strategy as well where we pump out really good content on our own blog as well. The other thing that's really important to us that we probably don't talk enough about, we don't get asked about it and I think that it's worth mentioning though is just building a product and a community that is worth talking about. You know, building something that really helps people, that really changes the world. And, you know, it shines through creating a product that really works very well for our customers. And then on top of that, creating a community of people that can share ideas And share it, share the technology or the platform with their friends. Now I think that's something that's harder to measure in terms of how that helps us grow, but I just know that if people love using our product, they're going to talk about it, and for me, that's one of the best ways to spread the word about your product or service.

Love it. Okay, tell us about one big struggle you faced while growing the business.

Growing V-roll in particular, there's been a lot of struggles. I think this passion for the industry has helped drive me through it, but in terms of struggles, let me try and think. It's difficult to just pinpoint one.

The one that hurt the most.

The one that hurt the most. I'm not sure if anything's hurt really all that much. Maybe this one, the time that it's taken to get it going. We've had relatively quick success with VeeRall, which has been great, but it's taken a lot of time. You know, I work many, many hours on the business and a big part of it is growing the team as well. And that's been a very important thing in Vero that I haven't done as well in my other businesses, building the team out and getting leverage through that. But yeah, spending time on the business means I haven't been able to spend as much time on other things, you know, like my other businesses for example or— My family. You know, I've certainly found that probably the most painful and most difficult to, you know, to get the ball rolling with for your role. It's taken time away from family as well, which I'm hoping will change very soon.

Okay, fair enough. What's one piece of advice you'd give to your 25-year-old self?

My 25-year-old self, I would certainly say, hey Gideon, you know, Yeah. You know, start a business way sooner than you did. I only started when I was 27 but, you know, I wish I could go back in time and already start a business back when I was say 16 or even younger. You know, just do something, start some sort of a business to get to know how it works and understand how the business world actually works and figure out what people really want and giving it to them. I mean, that's really what entrepreneurship is about, you know, solving problems for people. So if I could go back I would just say start earlier, especially when starting a business, absolutely.

Fair enough. How do you structure your day?

There's no real structure with me. I do have rituals that I go through, but it's not at a specific time or date. The rituals are designed to help me get things done. So for example, one typical ritual is if I want to write a video script or a blog post or something creative, I would get out of the office, go to my favorite coffee shop, sit down, turn up some music. I listen to vocal trance kind of music that's really— it really helps me focus and it blocks out all other distractions around me.

Did you say vocal trance?

Yes.

So like Armin van Buuren?

Absolutely, yeah.

Good, I'm a big fan.

Yeah, yeah, so absolutely that sort of music and that gets me into the flow, gets me into the flow state for that kind of productivity and creativity really quickly. And then I just sit there and pump out content until the tap stops, you know, and just get it all out there. So that's a typical ritual I would follow for being productive, especially creative kind of productive. But I have other rituals too, you know, that helps me get other sorts of things done. It's a little bit difficult to try and have a specific schedule because our team is worldwide, our customers are worldwide, and oftentimes, you know, I've got to be flexible with my schedule. I mean, this interview for example now, it's sort of 8 o'clock in the morning here in Australia, but it's evening time in America for you, right?

Yeah.

So it's not like I can just say no, I only do interviews in my afternoon, that means that I won't have any interviews to do with America because everybody will be sleeping then. So yeah, there's no real structure for each new day. But what I do do is I'm very clear on what I want to achieve for each new day. So that's what I guess if there is any kind of structure, it's around all that. Got it.

Okay. Now, what's one must-read book you'd recommend to everyone?

Tough one. There are so many amazing books for entrepreneurs, especially people just getting started. One book that's been really instrumental to me is Napoleon Hill's Law of Success. And so, Law of Success was written about 9— or published about 9 years before Think and Grow Rich. And, you know, while Thinking and Grow Rich is a fantastic book, I think it seems to me that it was slanted very much towards just money-making. Whereas The Law of Success is a more well-rounded philosophy about success, you know, and not just about money. It was much deeper than just money. And that really resonated with me well. Now, you've got to remember, of course, it was published in 1929 or 1928, something like that. Yeah. So, you know, back then people's ideas of the world were quite different to today. So you got to take some of the things with a pinch of salt but in general the principles are really solid and I've used a lot of it in my own business, my own life to become more successful. And in fact I try and read through the whole of The Law of Success once a year and it's— I've been trying to do that for the last 9 years or so. I haven't done it every year but I just did it again this year and it was incredible. Every time I read it, I just— some places I go, it feels like I've never read this before and it just hits me and then cool, now I got to do this in my business. You know, so it's quite interesting.

Nice. I've actually never— you know, Think and Grow Rich everybody's heard of. I've actually never heard of Law of Success so I've actually— while you were talking, I just— I was listening and I just hit one-click ordering on Amazon so thank you.

Okay, great. Yeah, if you can get Yeah, get this— it's like in— I think the Napoleon Hill Foundation publishes it as well. That's probably the best place to get it from because you'll probably get the most— the best copy of it. There seems like a few different copies floating around. The one from the Napoleon Hill Foundation is the best one to get.

Got it, perfect. So Gideon, this was awesome. What's the best way for people to find you online?

Well, probably best, more recently, is to just check out VeeRoll.com. I don't give out my personal contact details. It's just a little bit too difficult, but through there, people can check out what we're doing at VeeRoll. We do have an amazing support team. If you've got any questions at all, you can just email our team at support@VeeRoll.com and we're happy to answer.

Awesome.

Perfect.

So everyone, this is Gideon Shalwick from VeeRoll. Check it out if you haven't done any video ads yet. Because, you know, if you haven't, I'm going to bet that you're going to regret it pretty soon. So Gideon, thanks again.

You're so welcome. Thanks, Eric, and talk to you soon.

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