How To REACH Your FULL POTENTIAL Doing What You LOVE | Jennifer Cohen | The 2%

At this point in my life, I mean, I'm only, I'm not exercising to be physically a certain way anymore. I want to maintain what I have, but it really is for my, the mental, the mental aspects. For people who are just starting, a really good thing is to say to themselves, I'm just going to do five minutes. Because it's really, the first five minutes is the hardest part, right. To get started. It's that motivation to really, you know, kick into gear almost 10 out of 10 times. Once people do that five minutes, it, it progresses into a longer workout. And I built an entire company around this.

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the 2%, where as always, we are having awesome conversations with peak performers in all walks of life. Why? To help decode excellence, help give you strategies, tips, tools, techniques that you can use to hopefully break free from the 98% and join the 2% of people estimated to be operating at their full potential. And I'm super excited to have Jennifer Cohen on the show today. Woo. Jennifer.

Wow, I love that. Like, that's quite an intro. Eric, thank you for having me and I wish everybody would give me that woo woo. When I came on their podcast or interview. So thank you.

No problem. You got tons of amazing experience and accolades and that will naturally kind of get weaved in as we talk here. But you know, some right off the bat that are worth mentioning. You're a best selling author, You've written one book already. You have another coming, right?

I've written three books already. I see you do your research.

But great, great research there. No, I've written three books, all in the health and wellness, health and diet, health and exercise.

My last one was called Badass Body Goals. But my newest book, it will be. It's, you know, how this. I don't know if you know or people are familiar, but when you have a book deal and you're working with a publisher, it's. You write a book and it doesn't even come out for like a year, year and a half. So I just penned my deal and it would be coming out in a year and a half and it's gonna be more on asking for what you want in life and behavioral change. So more like mental stuff, both being bold, going after things that you want and how to do it.

Cool. So what do you want in life?

What, what am I?

What, what do you want in life?

What do I want in life? Well, it's an ever changing, it's an ever changing thing, right? I think you have different goals in different areas of your life. You have personal goals, you have professional goals. And once you hit that mark, that benchmark, then you can kind of go for the next thing. So currently, what now I'm in a situation where what I want, I want to like, I want to have. I want to be around people and pick projects where I really enjoy the people. I want to grow this new business that I just started with. I'm trying to grow that business. I want. What do I want? I want my kids to be very happy and very healthy. And that's an evergreen thing. So there's lots of different things I want. And it's about putting your, you know, kind of having, I guess, aligning your life so those things can actually be achievable, I guess. Right.

And I know you're so some of the other things that you are obsessed with include building healthy habits. Right. To drive positive behavioral change. And you have a couple of nice. Your name. 100 most influential people in health and fitness and most impactful fitness entrepreneurs made both of those lists. So what drove, what drove that? Why all these special recognition?

Are you reading my bio? I think so.

Yeah. I mean, listen, I think those lists are fun and fine and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, you know, I think that I always followed what my passion was. You know, like, I think it's really important to. For people to become very. To get to know themselves first, very, very well. And then after you do that, figure out, because I think, number one, people are. When you're not self aware, you kind of start chasing and going after things that are maybe really far off from the point. But when you know yourself really well and you have something that you're truly interested and that you know you're good at or you're interested in getting better at, I think success is the byproduct. Right. So you have to kind of start with knowing what you're good at, knowing who you are, knowing yourself really well and leading with the passion and leading what you're actually, what your strengths are. And so those lists are kind of just again, a byproduct of me always just kind of being true to myself and following what those things are. I've always been super interested and super passionate about like fitness and health. And I built my career around it. Not by on purpose, it was by accident in a way, and then it became on purpose.

What drives that? Why have you always been passionate about fitness and health? Where does that come from?

You know what I think? I think it kind of it helped kind of shift and change my own mental strength. I think when I was younger, I was a little bit. You know, I just don't think that, like, I was kind of. I was kind of, like, flailing like everybody else. You know, when you're younger and you're trying to. Trying to figure out what you're. What you like, what you don't like. I'm talking, like, you know, in my late teens, right? And then, you know, I started to exercise and work out. And I noticed as I got stronger physically, it made me stronger mentally, and I got really addicted to those endorphins and that, like, that. That feeling and where it became something that I kind of really built into my daily routine and my habits very early on. And so fitness for me really teaches you. Teaches. Taught me goal setting. It taught me.

Once you hit a certain place, then, you know, to pass another place, you got to, like, hit benchmarks. It taught me discipline. So for me, I have, like, a very strong relationship with fitness. When I went to school, after my first job was at a sports team and then a music and then a record label. I only went into fitness when I was working for a label. I was head of marketing for a very big label. And I got to Los Angeles from a job I was doing in Canada, where I'm from, and the music world was shifting and changing, and it was all about the dot com world. And that's when I, like, kind of and thought to myself, you know what? Like, what I really love is fitness is health. So I quit my job and I actually became a personal trainer just because that's what I like to do. And what I did then was once I got my first certification, I thought of how I can use my network, who I had, and I created a job for myself as a label trainer. So I went back to the record labels I had relationships with and basically pitched myself as someone who of course, understood how the marketing works and basically pitched myself as a trainer for the talent before they go on to do a tour or before they do a music video or whatever they're doing. So it was me taking my love and my passion and marrying it with my network already and my resourcefulness. And that was, like, the beginning of my fitness journey, my fitness career. And that kind of evolved into different books and different products. And then I had an app. I sold the app to Weight Watchers. There's been a lot of, like, different bench, you know, milestones in that space.

Well, hang on. You just, like, casually. Oh, and then I had an app. And then I sold it to weight.

Well, I'm trying to get. I'm trying to like, paint a picture, right? Like, I didn't mean like, oh, yeah, like I had an app and that's it. And I got acquired. But I guess the overarching point is that it was something I took, something that I was super, super interested in and passionate about, and I just built on that into an actual business or businesses. So when people ask me what I do, I say, I'm an entrepreneur. People are like, well, what do you do in the fitness space? And I love business, but I also love fitness. And the two don't. The two can go. You can. You can marry a couple. You know, more than one thing. You can be. You can't be good at. You could be good at more than one things. You can have passion for more than one things. I think that it's really dangerous when you a. You compartmentalize what. You know. Just because I like fitness doesn't mean I'm not going to be good in this thing. Just because I like, you know, sailing doesn't mean I'll be bad at this. It's like really kind of like figuring out what you're good at and then figuring out how they all can marry together to be a career. So I took my roof. Yeah, that's basically.

So you just mentioned sailing, and before we hit record, you were.

Oh, yeah.

You were talking about this because. So I was talking about the, you know, the whole, you know, the background of the show rooted in Abraham Maslow's estimate that, well, in his research that, you know, our path to deepest fulfillment lies in reaching our full potential. But he estimated only 2% of people ever achieve that, meaning a lot of people kind of died with a lot of stuff still on the table. But you were going to tell me about some sailboat thing and so.

Oh, yeah, just some sailboat. Well, no, when you. Because you were telling me about this 2%. Why. I asked you why you named it that. And I thought it was very. It's very coincidental because yesterday I was. I was watching somebody whose whole business was based around. They're like, they're a psychologist and. And they're based their entire learnings and career and philosophy around Maslow. And they create this. They had something called the sailboat theory. And I don't. I wasn't really, like, it was kind of from Maslow. And I was kind of thinking, like, what is it? And I didn't really remember it because then what you didn't hear me say. Because then you're like, wait until we press record is my kid was yelling at me and I couldn't read what the sailboat theory was. And so I wanted to know what that was. And I thought since you were a fan of Maslow obviously too, maybe you knew what that was. But now that you brought it up, let me see if I can find it.

I love that. Save that whole little conversation from going absolutely nowhere.

Yeah, well, listen, I saved it all for you. You didn't let me even like you didn't let me finish because you're like, wait, wait. And I'm like, well, when he finds out that I have nothing to say about it. But now everybody knows I know nothing. But it's a whole thing. Here, I can read it. Can I read it to you or.

Yeah, go for it.

Well, it's pretty long after it's basically talks about. One of the first things you need to know is when. Oh wait, this is about sailing. Hold on a minute. The sailboat theory by.

Let me see.

It's about motivation really, but it's a sailboat metaphor.

Okay, so it's on Scott Berry Kaufman I think is his name's website. But I can. It's really long. I don't think you want me to.

Read this whole thing. We'll shortcut it for people. So the short of it is that if you want to reach your full potential and stay motivated, you should buy and sell them, right?

Is that what it is?

I have no idea.

No, not at all. But how about this? You could. How about this? They can google it and see what it's about, but it's about motivation and how to self actualize and all these other things that kind of you're talking about. So if there's any homework, the homework's really for you, Eric, to kind of know more about what Basel is about.

Awesome. What's that next book? Next book is coming up. What's that going to be teaching people?

Well, no, that book is much more about asking for what you want. The behavioral changes. Because in all of my work and things have evolved, right? Like I came from the health and wellness space at that point, but then my career kind of morphed into more high performance in all walks of life with CEOs with companies. And the bottom line is that at the end of the day, what holds people back is usually self doubt. Self doubt is like the killer to anybody's dreams, right? And so it's like how do you really overcome self doubt to chase what you want and not just take what you get and not just take the good enough. And so I did a TED talk on this whole topic that did quite well. And people obviously struck a chord with a lot of people. And now I'm just really expanding on that entire notion because I do believe that fear and self doubt really do is why there is only a 2%. 2% versus the 98% that don't do their self actual actualization. And it's kind of sad because I think that we all have something within us that is special and that it makes us a superstar. And it's really about finding what that is or tapping into what that is, exploiting it and really kind of going after it. And that's what kind of. And that when you don't do it, the alternative.

Is actually like, you know, there's always a sense of regret, there's always a sense of like malaise or disappointment. And we only live once, so we might as well live at our fullest, optimize what we have. And that's what the entire premise is, entire philosophy that I try to live by.

And I'm really kind of like digging into the research now more so there's a science based. So when I'm. When I explain a lot of this stuff that I have things to truly back it up. And so you know, you have a.

Title title yet for the book?

I'm not quite sure yet. It's going to talk about being bold for sure. Because I think my entire theory again is about the idea and the philosophy behind repetition and about practice. Like anything else in life, anything you want to get good at, you have to practice. It's a skill. So if you want to be bold or if you want to take French lessons, it's the same, same thing. It's the same concept which is you have to practice to get better and consistency and practice really kind of take you from here to there. Like even Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, I mean when they, they practice 10,000 plus plus plus hours by doing the most basic thing, they're not practicing crazy fancy drills. They're basically practicing just throwing the ball in the net over and over and over again.

You know, this is cool. I can't remember what book it was, but there's a book about Kobe where there's the story of the author goes that like Kobe, the author had asked Kobe, hey, can I come around and watch you shoot or you know, do some practice? And he's like, yeah, sure, no problem. He's like, I'll see you at 3:30 or something. And he's like, 3:30 in the afternoon. He's like, no, no, no. 3:30 in the morning. And so the author gets there, watch Koe practice. And for like, I don't know, it was like three hours or something, he's doing the most basic stuff, like, you know, shooting free throws and then doing layups and then doing, you know, three pointers and, you know, doing post moves and. And it's just like all this basic stuff. And the author asked him, he's like, I don't get it. It's like, how the hell have you become the best guy in the game doing such basic fundamental things? And Kobe's answer was, well, how the hell do you think I became the best player in the game? By doing exactly fundamental things. And so, like, so many things that you talk about there, you know, like fundamentals, the consistency, the discipline. And I love two words that I really latched onto. When you were speaking about your new book, you talked about.

We talked about fear, but essentially, you know, the converse of that, you're talking about becoming fearless. And then that relates to bold. And for years I had these three words that I just had on the wall and I had two different sets of them, and I, like, practice, tried both out. And one was like, fast, focused, fearless. And I just looked at that every day. Be fast, focused, fearless. And then the other set I had was fast, focused, bold. So all I'm saying is giving you massive props for those words, for this book, this subject matter, because it is absolutely the number one thing, I think, that holds people back.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. I appreciate that. No, and I do believe it comes down to the most basic, basic things, right? Like, it's not. People try to overcomplicate things that don't really need that to be complicated. And it's the simple things, right? Like at the end of the day, it's one. If your foundation is strong, then you. That's how. That's when you can actually build something that's strong on top of it. And more and more and more, if your foundation is weak, that can be towards, you know, Kobe Bryant when he practices and his. The basic moves or, you know, me when I. When I'm trying to get better at, you know, self doubt or fear wherever you need to kind of master the basics first. And sometimes people forget that, right? It's like now, you know, like in everything in life, everything becomes very fad. Driven, very driven on. Like, you know, like for diets, like, I'm going to do the inter. I'm going to do the keto diet. I'm going to do this thing when really it's like people are looking for something that sometimes is not necessary. Right? Like what about just like eating a balanced, healthy meal and not having to restrict and you know, and do all those things. But people don't realize that there's a lot of like success in just following the basic rules of life, you know.

Just like any, or just like any plan, you know, the. At. At all. Because I could, like you were just saying, you know, I could research and come up with 10 different ways to get in shape and change my eating. I could come up with 10 different ways to like improve my, I don't know, productivity or work routine. 10 different ways to like be a better father and you know, husband. But probably the simplest thing to do would just be pick one thing and just adhere to it, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean basically and just do it and do it over and over and over again and get really, really good and really, really comfortable in it and build that into a routine for consistency. Right. And that's basically, that's the beginning and the end of all of it. But you know, I think a lot of times, and then when the problem sometimes can be when you are doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that and like you're kind of all over the place, you end up doing everything kind of half assed and not really good at anything. So it's about sometimes just picking like one thing and being really focused and diligent and deliberate and then from that then you can move on.

And so you're very focused on building these healthy habits. And we talk about having a foundation in place from which you can build further things from. Not all habits are created equal. What are like the, you know, what are like the power habits in your mind? So like the person who's listening right now and they're just like, oh my gosh, there's just so much that I could be doing but that I'm not doing to start improving my health. I don't even know where to start. Like, what are the power moves to make? What are the fundamentals?

Okay, some fundamentals. I think a couple things. I think, number one.

Keeping yourself accountable. Number one, that's just. So write down what you're doing in progress because I think sometimes we. That's why, you know, I see that you're actually by the way, wearing an OURA ring. Like I think I am too. Right. It's the data because it keeps all your data. It's a sleep tracker. I'm a, I'm a big fan and believe me, I'm not. I don't work with them or, or whatever. But the guy just came on my podcast, the guy, the CEO. So I think that's why I was going to just making a mention of it. But what I was going to say is keeping track and being accountable is super, super important.

For building habits and kind of seeing yourself progress. The reason or seeing where you are and what to do. Because I think when you have no data, it becomes very willy nilly. It doesn't have to be the OURA ring, but I think that some power habits are exercise daily. I think exercise first thing in the morning is.

One of the best habits someone can get into. And I'll tell you why. Because number one, if you start your day off well and doing something for yourself that's really good, it will keep you on. It's more likely to keep you on point for the rest of the day. It also gives you the energy, it makes you more productive. People think, oh, I'm too tired to work out. But actually.

The jolt of energy and endorphins and serotonin and all the different.

Mood enhancers, you will benefit in threefold through the day. That's number one. Number two, for the cognitive and focus and all the alert stuff too, that's the first habit. Another habit is actually is sleeping enough? I think that it's like the cheapest magic pill that you can get.

And it's free and it's the most. It's basically on par with exercise for me because again, if you don't sleep properly, then everything else is off. You end up again, your hormones are not elevated well, your mood's off. Your, your focus, your cognitive abilities are off. You end up eating more. Everything that people are trying to stay on point for becomes derailed. So having enough sleep now, what's enough for you versus me is very different. But that is why, again, why having some kind of accountability and trackability is super important.

I want to say number three is back to the accountability is, you know, writing down your to do list. And so when you do something, you check it off the list because there's like an empowerment. It's very empowering when you actually accomplish something and then you cross it off that list and then move on to the next thing. And again, it gives you that accountability. It's a visual of what you need to do. So you're staying on point. Those are three easy Ones that people can implement tomorrow. Now, when it comes to working out, people are like, oh, I'm not saying you need to do a crazy, you know, hour.

Intense run, but move your body for a good 15 or 20 minutes. That's enough to kind of get that, you know, activated. And that could be anything. Going for a walk, it doesn't matter. It's just the fact that you're moving your body. You're doing something for yourself that's really healthy. So those are three. I can give you 100 more if.

You'D like, but keep going.

Cool. So, yeah, I just wanted some cool threads that you. So the whole. That whole, like, positive mood boost. I've gotten to the point. So I have tons of injuries. I have, like, literally have, like, torn ligaments in both my ankles.

In both your what?

Both my ankles. Cartilage damage in my left knee. I ripped the ligaments off the humeral head on the left shoulder. I haven't had him reattach fractured vertebrae.

Were you an athlete? Were you, like, a professional athlete at some point?

Yeah, I wish. No, no, no, no. I was. No, I was, like, so mediocre when it came to sports. It was, like, sick.

Oh, where are all the injuries from?

Just so I have, like, a genetic predisposition. So I have, like, bad collagen, basically. So my collagen injures easily, and when it injures, it doesn't repair. Well.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because for me, I have to live with a lot of pain all the time. Right now, as I'm talking to you right now, my left knee is flared up. I've been icing it all day, but it's just, like, I've just gotten used to it. So the positive, like, mood, you know, effective exercise, I think it's so important. And for me, like, exercise is almost medicinal. Like, I'm not going to the gym to. Because, you know, I want to look a certain way or, you know, land a shot in Baywatch 5. Is there a Baywatch 5? I have no idea.

I don't think there is. But I get what you're trying to say. You don't want. You're not trying to be a fitness model.

Yeah, but.

Which I think you are, aren't you? Aren't you a fitness model?

No. My God. I mean, I appreciate that, but why would you think I was? That's not in my bio.

I think I saw something in there, or maybe it was just the Instagram feed.

Anyway, I think it's the fact that maybe when I was like much younger, I did a lot of endorsements and spoke spokesperson work for people, but I would never tout myself as a fitness model. But I'm going to take that anyway and run with it. I'm going to put that in my bio.

Fitness block.

I'm going to. Well, yeah, I'm going to put that. I used to be a professional athlete.

Yeah, right.

We're making up our own reality now. It's perfect. I love it.

Yeah, exactly. No, but the point I'm trying to make for the benefit of people listening, is that exercise is so powerful that you don't need to want to look a certain way. You could simply want to be happier, feel better about yourself, have this positive influx of hormones like you're saying, and it becomes in a way like your antidepressant. I mean, even on days when I'm feeling in a complete funk and I'm like down and in a bad mood, I actually know that, oh my gosh, if I just go and work out right now, like that's going to solve everything, right?

100%.

I agree totally. You know, because your physi, your psychology, 90% of your psychology is driven by your physiology. At least that's what I believe.

So, by the way, it's not just what you believe. There's been a ton of research. I mean, I could not agree with you more. At this point in my life, I mean, I'm only. I'm not exercising to be physically a certain way anymore. I want to maintain what I have, but it really is for my. The mental, the mental aspects. And I actually always say what you just said, which is like, it is. Exercise is a natural antidepressant. So it's the best mood.

Basically balancer or enhancer that there is, bar none. It can be. It beats out anything else. And I know people actually who've gotten off of antidepressants when they've incorporated a work like working out into their life daily. I mean, I know even for myself that if I'm a very like, ADD kind of person, right? Like, I want to do this. I'm shiny ball there. I'm very much like that. And ends up like, if I don't have, if I don't work out, I'm like, not properly focused. It is the amount of health benefits, mental benefits, mental health benefits you get from exercise. It is so amazing that I feel like people just need to kind of get off over that initial, like, hump. And then once they kind of like, once they start Doing it at enough of a regular, you know, regularly, it naturally becomes part of their. Part of their routine because of. You get addicted to that feeling.

How do you get over that initial hump? How do you get the ball?

I think repetition. I think that you have to. There's no. Again, I hate to say it, but like anything else, what I think what happens is like you practice anything else, you do it, you don't like it, you do it. You kind of don't feel like it, you do it. And you do that enough where eventually there's like a little bit of a. Like a pivot or that tipping point where it's just like, okay, I may not like it, but I love the after effects of what happens. I know what I know now. If I do it to your point, how I'm going to feel after. So that's good enough for me to do, to even do it. I also think for people who are just starting, a really good thing is to say to themselves, I'm just going to do five minutes. Right? Because it's really the first five minutes is the hardest part, right. To get started. It's that motivation to really, you know, kick into gear nine out of 10 times, almost 10 out of 10 times. Once people do that five minutes, it progresses into a longer workout. And I built an entire company around this. Because the hardest part is putting on your clothes, putting on your shoes, doing that first few steps. Once you do that, you know what I mean? You're like, well, I'm already here. I've already put my shoes on. I already did this part. I might as well keep on going. And you know, when we're talking about that app, my app, my fitness app. It was called Hot 5. Five Minute Workouts.

Nice.

Yeah.

This is. This is like when you were talking, I was just thinking, oh, my God. So I started. So I wrote a book called the Three Alarms. And in there, what was it called? The Three Alarms.

Oh, the Three Alarms.

And.

I have a whole productivity section in there. And I talk about overcoming procrastination. And I talk about how.

Procrastination is just like a coping mechanism. It's resistance. And usually the resistance. Well, part of the resistance is created because you're sitting there and the phrase in your mind is, I have to finish. And that's like overwhelming because I have to. It's like you're being forced to do something you don't want to do. And finish is completely endless. And so what I always say is, I choose because you could choose to do something that you don't even want to do. So choose. I choose to start for just five minutes. And so I use that exact same thing. And I always tell people, you'll never know when the 300th second has passed. Like, you just get lost into. Into what you're doing. Right?

Exactly. Exactly. I mean, but it's all a psych. It's all psychological. Mind, mind, like mind tricks that you do. It's all. But like, you know, it's really. It is. It's like, okay, how do I psychologically, like, make me like, get myself to do this for a little bit or how do I, you know, what's, what's the kind of trick and tip. What kind of mind trick can I put on, Can I. Can I do to make me get from here to here? It's like an increment. The incremental amount is the hardest amount to do something.

Right. So going back to habits, why do you think people struggle to.

Even get the habits in place? You talked about fear, for example. Fear. And you're not wanting to be bold.

Self doubt. Self doubt.

Sorry, yes. Fear and self doubt. Where does that come from? What are people afraid of?

I think people are afraid of rejection. I think people are afraid of rejection and failure. I think that we have.

So much baggage that we're carrying around with ourselves from when we were younger about, you know, kids making fun of us if we don't say that. So do you remember when you were a baby or, you know, not. You remember your. But you know, when babies in general, they'll do whatever. They don't care if people are looking at them. They don't care if they, like, you know, if they, if they spit up or they burp or like, whatever. They just kind of go on with their day. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, ha, ha, they're oblivious. And then as we get older, we get so paranoid and uncomfortable or intimidated by what other people think of us that that then drives our behavior moving forward. We don't want to look stupid. We don't want to look dumb. We don't want to look ugly. We don't. It's all about other people's perception, right? And if we can kind of figure out a way to not allow other people's perception infiltrate and infiltrate us to that point or block out other people's opinions and perceptions or whatever and just focus on us, what we're doing. Yourself and like moving forward, you know, passing this thing, doing that. Like, it's so like, not only is it empowering. But it's so, it's so helpful to like someone's like overall like happiness and success.

Right.

Like, people don't go to the gym because they're, they don't want to look stupid and they don't want to look. They don't want, they don't want to look feeble. They don't want to like, want other people to see them, you know, not be able to do something. Well, like, in what world, why does everyone have to be perfect or great at something for them not to feel uncomfortable by even the try, even the attempt, right?

And here, here's the funny thing I discovered is that people don't really care that much.

People don't. And that's the irony. People are so concerned with themselves and like what they're doing that they're not even paying attention. They're not even noticing you 99% of the time.

Yeah, exactly.

It does. But again, like this is where the disconnect is what you know to be true and what you know, what you know psychologically or like what you know is human nature and psychologically doesn't necessarily compute when it comes to yourself. And that's where the rubber meets the road. That's the part where you need to kind of, you know, really focus on to make real change.

What's the biggest fear that you've stepped into in life?

I think, I think a fear of look. I think fear of failing and fear of looking stupid. I think those are the two, those are the two biggest ones. I think, you know, I don't love public speaking. You know, like, it doesn't make me, it's uncomfortable for me.

It says you're an international speaker and you're 100%.

It doesn't mean that I don't do it. Right. And if you would let me finish sailboats, you would hear what I was going to say. Okay. Okay. So like, just because you are bad at something or uncomfortable with doing something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. That's the only way to overcome something is to yet again do it over and over again, right? Until it becomes benign and comfortable. My entire. So I did this like again, I did this TED talk. And a big portion of this philosophy about getting over the self doubt, getting over the fear is it's called the 10% target. And the idea behind it is that you make 10 attempts at whatever you want most in life. And you know, you may not get that exact thing, but another opportunity will present itself that you never even knew Existed by just putting yourself out there. And so with, you know, me doing that TED Talk actually was me putting myself out there in a situation that wasn't very comfortable for me. You know.

I get asked to speak at places. I get a lot of anxiety from it. I don't love it. But every time I know that if I do it again, you know, I'll get that much better at it. Right? Because practice makes progress. Um, and on top of that, it will help kind of like. It'll help kind of like, eliminate my fear just that much more. Because what's the worst thing that can happen? So people don't like it, you know, like, what's the worst? So the only way to get past something is to kind of go, you know, is to kind of go through it a little bit. So am I. Do I do a lot of speaking? I do. I do a fair amount. And it's because I don't like it, and it's because I'm bad at it, or I'm bad at it in the sense that I'm uncomfortable with it and I'm scared for it is why I keep on doing it. Because I want to also practice what I preach to other people. I can't tell you to do that for whatever you're trying to do. And then on my own, in my own life, like, just. Just kind of avoid it and not do it, even though I know, you know what I mean, how to kind of make it better.

But you're training your professional muscles in the same way conceptually as you train your physical muscles. So you go into the gym and you're not like, show me the most comfortable weights.

You step into the challenging exercises, and the stress builds strength. You get stronger as a result. So I guess that's what you're doing. Every time you step out on stage, you're lifting that, you know, professional speaker, you know, dumbbell, right? And getting stronger.

You know, for all intents and purposes, like, the truth is, yeah, you are. I mean, that is. I mean, I go to the gym all the time, and I phone. You know, I phone it in a lot these days because I just do what I'm comfortable with because, you know, it's easy. And then there are times when I, like, catch myself, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's why I'm plateauing. That's why I'm not growing. That's why I'm not getting anywhere, is because I'm not pushing beyond what my comfort zone is. I mean, the reality is in life, in your professional life, your personal life, in your spiritual growth, Everything requires growth and movement. Right. Or else it just dies. Or just, like I said, if it's plateauing and it's just status quo, you might as well.

It just becomes boring. So you need to be able to push those boundaries as you kind of hit them.

In every area of your life.

If you had to pick one song that describes your life, what would you pick?

How about I'm a Survivor by, like, Destiny's Child.

Independent Woman by Destiny's Child.

You know, I like Demi Lovato song Confident. I like that song because I think it's like, it makes me feel like I can go through anything. I like that. I'm gonna pick her. That's the song I'm going with.

Awesome. Awesome. All right, so you have got three other people at home, right? Got your husband and.

I have. My husband. I have my two kids. Yep.

How do you. So let's say somebody is there. Health wise, entrepreneur wise, fear wise. How do you get the rest of the household on board? Like, what do you do. Like, what do you do to kind of encourage this way of thinking, this way of being, you know, in your other half and the young ones? Anything that you can share there?

I think, I think the best way to do that. Not with me, with anybody, is to lead by example. I think when you just tell somebody over and over again what they. You should do this, do that, do that, it kind of falls on deaf ears. I think the most effective is when they see you doing something and then they want to participate, then they want to be involved. When they see the, you know, the fruits of that labor, I think that's always the most. That's the best way, you know, lead by. Lead by example. That's when you're running a company, running a household, running anything, you know, a softball team for your child. Lead by example. What do you. How do you want. You should lead. You should show people how they. What you want them to do by you doing it yourself. And that's why I said to you earlier about the whole idea is if I'm not a good speaker, and I just kind of like, say, screw it, I'm not going to do it. How do I go and tell everyone else to make better 10 attempts at going through their biggest fear and just keep on going when I don't do it myself? You have to. You have to say what you, you know, you got to kind of mean what you say and you got to say. And you. You got to do what you say, you know, I mean, and say what you do. Whatever that saying. What is that saying, Eric? It's like, you know, I think someone's intention and word is really, really important. And you gotta lead by that example. And you've gotta like live by that example.

Yeah, totally. I always.

I had.

I was talking about growing up the other day and I said, you know, growing up is not about reaching a certain age. It's about not expecting others to do things that you don't role model and do yourself. Right. So it's like we.

You know, that's. And that applies to absolutely everything from parenting to your health to work.

What do you believe that others don't?

Well, I don't know what everybody believes. Right. Because how would I know? I don't know what you believe.

I believe that. Well, I think, actually I think a lot of things I believe are kind of one of those things that. I think they're quite universal. Like, I believe that people need other people to be successful in life. I think things are not done in a vacuum. I believe that.

Having one good friend is more important and more valuable than having a bunch of like randos around you who don't mean anything. You know, I believe that.

You know, I think what I believe is whatever, that whatever you know, is your. I believe that people should follow what they know is true for themselves. I really do believe that. And not just follow, follow, follow the herd. I think what happens a lot now, right. People just follow along without questioning what's going on. I think independent thinking is really, really important. And I think that people should exercise it as much as possible. What do I believe? There's a lot of things. This is like, that's a big question. Can you kind of like hone it down a little?

I mean, I love, I love what you said about, you know, I believe that people should really follow what's true for them. Right. Because so often, you know, a lot about what we were talking about certainly relates to the self doubt and the fear is that people are thinking too much from other people's perspectives and not enough from, from their own. And like we were saying earlier, it's like so worried about what they think about what I'm doing and they don't even care. It's like that, you know, it doesn't even matter. Right.

You know what I also believe? I believe that being super smart is detrimental. I think that being too super, being too smart is a hindrance on someone's ability to thrive. I think there's a Beauty in mediocrity. Because it forces people a lot of times to have to, like, you know, be resourceful and go after things and grow as a person. Sometimes when you. When you're so smart, you get everything handed to you, you think it, like, diminishes the quality of character that you have because it wasn't. It was so easy, you know? And I also think when you're too smart, you know, McKinsey, that you're so much about, like, strategy and solution that there's a lot lost in nuance and hustle.

My. He's 16 now, but must have been like 14 or so. My oldest son, when he was asking me about. No, he was. He was talking about how certain, you know, certain kids in the classroom now, they're way smarter than me, he said. And I was like, alex, they can be. You're always going to be meeting people way smarter than you, but there's no way that they can outwork you. Right. And that's the way to do it. So, Jennifer, I really. Yeah, I love chatting with you. So many cool ideas. Very excited about the new book coming. I wish we had the title so we could share it.

Well, it's just happening. I didn't realize this kind of happened so fast. I'll come back. We could talk again in a year when it's out.

Awesome. And where do. So you got your own podcast as well. Right. So if people want to hear more from you or get in touch, how do they do that?

Well, my podcast is called Habits and Hustle. You can see the crooked sign behind me. I think it just got moved. And you can follow me on Instagram at therealjen Cohen.

I'm on LinkedIn. I think it's just my name, Jennifer Cohen, and I think that's good.

Awesome. My website, Jennifer Cohen Dot com.

Yes. Jenny Cohen to you.

Awesome. Jennifer, thanks so much. Really appreciate you coming on the show and. Absolutely, yeah, I look forward to talking about your book in a year's time.

Thank you so much.

Cool. All right, see you soon.

Sa.