#104 The New Old

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Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Produce Leaders Show. I'm especially excited about today's episode because my guest is not only a globally respected leadership expert and bestselling author, she's also been a wonderful mentor to me, and honestly, the reason I joined Produce. Erika Andersen is the founding partner of Proteus International and the original host of this podcast. Today she's here as our guest to talk about her newest book, The New Old: Crafting Your Best Later Life. It's a beautiful and practical guide to aging with intention, purpose, and joy, something Erika is living out every day. Erika, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you on this side of the mic.

Yeah, I'm very, very excited about this. This is going to be a really fun conversation.

So in The New Old, Erika, you say that aging magnificently is a choice. What inspired you to write this book and why now?

Oh, love that question. So as you know, whenever I write a book, I'm always trying to crack a code. I'm trying to take something that seems like it's difficult for people and make it as easy and clear and doable as possible. For instance, in my last book, Change from the Inside Out, I was trying to crack the code of why is change so hard for people, for us, and how can we make it easier? And so in this book, the code I was trying to crack, very personal for me since I'm in my 70s, is how to get old well.

Mm-hmm.

Because I feel like there's A lot of psychologists and psychiatrists call ageism the last socially acceptable prejudice.

Whew.

And there is a lot of ageism. It's unconscious. And in fact, the World Health Organization did a big survey about this a few years ago, and they found that more than half of the thousands of people they surveyed had some measure of ageism, where they assume that older people are less useful to society, less interesting, less smart, less competent, less all kinds of things. So we're kind of dealing with that. And when society believes something, it tends to get incorporated into our brains. So, we, as older people, can believe that about ourselves. But also, the main thing is, I talk about this in the book, our model up to now has been what I call 2 chapters and an epilogue. Because most people, the majority of people across human history, did not live past 65.

Wow.

This is the first time in history that the vast majority of people are going to live, will live, are living past 65. And in fact, there's a great statistic. A reasonably healthy, non-smoking 65-year-old in a developed country today has 50% chance of living to be 90. Wow. Living to be 90.

That's—

Yeah. And that's never happened. So that's why I call it the new old, where this whole thing of having a full third chapter where once you get to be 60 or 65 and things are shifting, but you might have 20 or 30 or 40 years more of life. So you don't want to just not think about what you want that to be. You want to be clear. You want it to be, as you say, have intention and purpose and joy.

Yeah. Living that third act in a better way, in the best possible way.

Yeah, exactly. The 2 chapters and epilogue is, okay, first chapter I grow up, second chapter I create a family, I create work for myself. And then the epilogue was just, okay, I'm going to stop working and die, hang around for a few years and die. And now there's so much time. I mean, I'm 73. I fully expect to live to be 90 or 100. So am I just gonna hang around for the next 20 or 30 years?

No.

You said a wonderful thing to me a couple weeks ago. Purpose doesn't retire. And that's it. What is my purpose? So I've written this book to help people get clear about that third chapter and to make sure that it's the kind of third chapter they want to have. Hmm.

And in the book, you talk about being the boss of your life. So can you explain what does it mean in practice, especially for someone approaching retirement or navigating a major life transition?

Yes. So part of the whole ageism that exists is that people want to start running your life for you when you're old, and they think they're just taking care of you, but it's like, oh, well, we'll make this big decision and not tell our mom that we've done it for her. So, being the boss of your life is retaining agency.

Yeah.

So, part of that is to continue envisioning. So, that's the first principle, as you say in the book, is be the boss of your life. And the first chapter in that is keep envisioning. If you've been envisioning what your life will be like with your family and your career, don't stop. Just revisit that vision and make a vision for this third act of your life. So, just creating that vision, taking the act to make it happen, having some strategies and some tactics. And building what I call your crew. As you get older, you need more people in your life to kind of help you do stuff and make sure that they're the kind of people that you wanna have working with you who respect you and who see you as the boss of your life. So that's what that whole section is about, being the boss of your life.

Yeah, I love the word agency, retaining that agency. And through that, you're talking about envisioning, and I cannot help thinking about our Being Strategic model. Yes. Maybe can you make the connection for our listeners between the two.

One of the fun things about writing this book was that all the things that I've learned and taught and figured out over the last 40 years, they were all spread out before me and I got to pick the ones that I thought would be most helpful.

Yes.

In this challenge. And one of them is that is our vision strategy process, which I went to in depth in my Being Strategic book. And although I apply it in a more informal way in this book, because it's not figuring out the future of a company.

Mm-hmm.

It's the same general principle is what are you solving for? Where are you starting from? What would it look like when it was good? What's in the way? And now how are you going to make it happen? So that same just foundational principle is important here. That one of the main differences is that I encourage the reader to think about their vision in terms of who they want to be. Who's the person they want to be in this third act? And what do they want their life to be like? So I can share mine with you if that would be helpful to our listeners. We'd love that.

Please. Okay.

So my vision is in my 70s, I am elven, full of light, strong, deep, and magical. So that's me. And then my life is my 70s are about exploration, time to discover, support, and enjoy myself. The world and those I love. So that's what I encourage the reader to do. Just make those 2 simple phrases. Who are you in this third act? And what do you want your life to be like? And I say in the book, look, mine may be too woo-woo for you. So I give some other examples that are more practical. But that's the point. It needs to resonate for you when you say it to yourself. It's like, yes, that is who I want to be in this third act. That is the kind of life I want to have.

And when you talk about it, I feel the joy. So it definitely resonates with you, and that's what we want. Now, in order to get there, I think the mindset is a very important piece of it. So what are some of the most common internal stories or limiting beliefs that hold people back to do this?

So if it's okay with you, rather than talking about specific limiting beliefs, I really want to double down on the importance of this. I did such fun research for this book. And one of the things I discovered is there was a study done about 20 years ago by the Yale School of Public Health. And they took about 700 people and they kind of sorted them for demographics and preexisting health conditions and all that. And then they asked them questions to determine, to figure out, to identify their mindset about aging.

Okay.

There were 2 false questions. And for instance, one was, Older people are less useful to society. So if you think that's true, then you have a kind of negative mindset about aging. If you think it's false, you have a kind of positive mindset. So they ask all these questions, and they divided them just by that. People who had— the people in their study who had a more positive mindset about aging, and those who had a more negative mindset. And then they followed them for 23 years. They did the study in 2002.

Wow.

And they found out over those 23 years that people who had a more positive mindset mindset about aging, when they made sure there weren't too many variables, they sorted for age and preexisting health conditions and stuff, lived on average 7.6 years longer.

Woo-hoo!

Isn't that amazing? So your mindset about aging can have a more beneficial effect on your longevity than quitting smoking, than lowering your cholesterol, than losing weight. All these things that are so heavily marketed to do. This is more helpful, and it's completely in our control. So, that's how I start out that section, Master Your Mindset. I teach people how to manage their self-talk, one of the things I brought forward from our Proteus IP.

Yes.

Then the second chapter in that section is about being mindful, which is just being aware of what's happening within and around you in a non-judgmental way. That's all mindfulness. means. And it turns out, again, it's completely in our control. And it turns out that this is particularly helpful for everybody, but particularly helpful for seniors to become more mindful, more non-judgmentally aware. So there's a chapter about that. And then the 3rd chapter in that section is about creating a gratitude practice.

Oh.

Which I know that you're a very grateful person, and it's especially helpful to be grateful when things are difficult. Like, I just start out the chapter talking about my brother, my older brother, who died about 4 years ago. He had had rheumatoid arthritis for many years, and then he got cancer, and they made it go into remission, but the chemotherapy just wrecked his body, and which was already compromised from the RA, and he died. And the amazing thing about David is— thing I admire and respect so much about him— he was Endlessly grateful. He was grateful until the last day of his life when he was dying of cancer. He was grateful for his partner, for his kids, for food, for being alive, for the sun coming up in the morning. And it's so meaningful to me, but it's such a great example that people often think everything has to be going well for them to be grateful. And there's this wonderful quote from Brené Brown who says, People think joy makes them grateful, but actually gratitude makes you joyful.

Makes them joyful.

Right? Right?

Yes. I want to share, I mean, this resonates so much with me. I want to share a practice I've started doing with my son every day. We call it the positive moment where every night before he goes to bed, we think about what are you grateful for?

Yeah.

Today. And it could be the smallest things. It could be a nice meal he had, a moment we shared, something he did with a friend, and we write it down. And I see some similarities with the self-talk when you write the positive self-talk you need to have. I think when you write it down, it makes it real, tangible, and then you can go back to it. And I was looking at my list today because I had a difficult morning, and I was like, Wow. Let me just be mindful and grateful at the same time, but pause, identify during your day what has been a positive moment.

Yeah. Oh, that's so wonderful. It's exactly what I recommend in the book. And not only does writing it down make it stickier, but it turns out— I love that you do it with your son because there's a lot of research that shows when you say what you're grateful for out loud to another person, it's more impactful. It stays with you more. It has more of an effect on you.

Yes, I think it's connected also to the memory. So you keep those elements more on top of your memory and your brain then is more in that kind of positive virtuous circle versus if you keep reading the news nowadays, you know, you just have that negative narrative all the time. So it's hard to overcome it.

Yeah, there's another— that reminds me, there's another study I referenced in the book where they had people in an old age residence. They put them into 3 groups. One, they had write down whatever they wanted to about what had happened in the week. One, they had them write down things they were grateful for. And the third, they had write down things that irritated or upset them.

Mm-hmm.

And then they followed them for months. And the people, as you might imagine, the people who wrote down what they were grateful for had better outcomes on lots of levels. They had— their health was better, they slept better. And some really interesting things, they self-reported and reported by others, better relationships with other people. Just on and on, the benefits.

On and on. I'm not surprised a bit. Now, as I'm familiar very much with the Proteus IP, I see how you brought together so many pieces, the learning piece, the self-talk, the being strategic. We cannot not talk about change, you know, because I love the idea of getting good at change, and it's one of the number one qualities of leaders, but it seems to be also very relevant In the new old. So can you talk a little bit about that and how different that might be at this stage of our life?

So one aspect of ageism is that younger people tend to believe that— it turns out— tends to believe that older people's lives are stagnant and unchanging, that kind of nothing changes. And you notice that like a lot of times there are online quizzes that say, and you answer them and then it's your score. If you're 20 to 30, 30 to 40, 40 to 50, 50 to 60, And then over 60. Everybody over 60 is exactly the same, whether you're 63 or 97, right?

It's not logical.

Our lives— personal experience— our lives keep changing, and they often change in ways that are most difficult for human beings, which is change that's imposed upon you from outside that isn't your idea. People die, people get sick, you get sick, your health changes, your relationship with your kids changes, they move away. All these changes happen when you're old. And so I start that section by saying, Therefore, I think it's even more important for older people to get fluent with change than for younger people. And we do have a tendency as we get older to get set in our ways, to like our routines and habits. Getting good at change is kind of working against that in a way too.

Mm-hmm.

So in the first chapter of that section, I explain the change arc, how human beings go through change and how our mindset which they learned in the last section, is at the core of that, is at the core of getting good at change. So that's that chapter. Then the next chapter is called Modify Gracefully.

Hmm.

Because in my first example I always use is pickleball instead of tennis. As you get older, you're going to have to do some things differently. You can either do it kicking and screaming and resisting and hurt your mind and hurt your body, or you can modify gracefully. So that chapter is about getting clear in your self-awareness. Do I need to change some aspect of my life? And then how do I want to modify it? How do I go about modifying it? How do I make it easy, rewarding, and normal, right? And then the last chapter in that section, which I love so much— I just brought in all the IP from Be Bad First about learning— because that last chapter in that section is called Discover and Explore Anything. And I talk about how your brain still works, your synapses still work, you can still develop new synapses. It is a use-it-or-lose-it proposition. People whose brains work less well when they get old, often it's because they're not using them. So, and then I say, and if you're not working 60 hours a week and you're not raising kids, you have a lot more bandwidth to learn stuff. So for the first time in your life, maybe you can just learn things for fun. So I talk about a new model and how to learn new things.

And a wonderful example is coming to mind is learning a new language. I know You've done that, right? It's something I recommended to my mom, and she's doing that every day, and it ke— is keeping her memory.

Yes.

And she's learning so well, and it's just satisfying and, and so much joy to be able to see, oh, I can speak another language.

Exactly. And that— it's so counter-societal because the message we get is that if you try and learn a new language past 50 or so, you're not going to be able to do it, and it's just not true. Our brains work.

Yes.

So that's great. And the very last chapter is called A Thread That Runs Through Everything, and it's about connection because so many more older people today are alone, live alone than before. 30 years ago, only about 1 out of 10 people over 65 lived alone, and now it's 1 out of 3.

Oh.

And it's because more people over 60 don't have kids now than in any previous generation. More older people are getting divorced, spouses die, kids move away. And it does— I know some people who live alone who are perfectly happy, but it's easier to be lonely. And it's also easier to be lonely when you're old because, like, I realized as I'm kind of mostly retired how many of my closest connections were through work. And I think that's true of a lot of people. Those connections start to fray. They don't have maybe the connections they had with the parents of their children. You know, a lot of your connections start to fray. So in that chapter, After I talk about how to make new connections as an older person, which a lot of older people don't know how to do. So, so that's the new old, basically.

Beautiful. Now, as you know, we always ask for practical tips.

Yes.

And you've given plenty already, but maybe a recap of the top 3 steps our listeners can take right now to start crafting a more intentional and fulfilling Third Act of Life.

I love that. The 2 places I would go are— and they're important parts of the book, but if you've got 10 minutes, start by noticing if you're 60, 70, 80, or even if you're in your 50s, notice how you're talking to yourself about getting old. And if you're talking to yourself about age and your own aging in a negative way, you can change that. You can change those messages. You can speak to yourself differently. I think that's the core. And then the second thing I would say is just start thinking about the kind of third act you want to have. Just start noodling on that. What would that look like? Who would you be? How would you be spending your time? What would be most fun for you, most exciting? Start thinking about that. Because I think both of those thought exercises, shifting your self-talk and thinking in a more proactive hopeful way about your future. I think those are wonderful places to start.

Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your insights. I mean, for me, it's been such a joy, and I know our listeners will walk away feeling both inspired and equipped. So listeners, if Erika's message resonated with you and you're curious to explore more, I highly recommend picking up her latest book, The New Old, Crafting Your Best Later Life, you will be able to find it online on Amazon. And to learn more about how Proteus supports leaders at every stage of life and leadership, just visit proteus-international.com. Thank you for tuning in, and until next time, here's to creating the old age you truly want.

We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business, and the life you want. To find out more about how we support our clients in leadership, learning, and change, visit us at proteus-international.com. Have an excellent day, and thanks for listening.