#107 Sales Excellence & Driving Growth

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Welcome to the Proteus Leaders Show, where we explore the insights and strategies that drive leadership transformation and success. I'm Marie-Olive, and today we're diving into the world of sales excellence and what it takes to drive sustainable business evolution. Joining me is Patrick Hogan, a seasoned leader with decades of experience in strategy, sales transformation, commercial excellence, and innovation. As the Chief Business Evolution Officer at Black& Veatch, Patrick is leading sales and marketing teams, cultivating strong client relationships, and driving commercial success across industries. Today, we'll discuss what makes sales teams thrive. the strategies that separate top performers, and how organizations can adapt to an ever-changing sales landscape. Let's get started. Welcome to the show, Patrick.

Thank you, Marie. It's great to be here. I'm really excited to be sharing with you. And if it's okay, Marie, I'm going to leverage Black& Veatch as our example for kind of some of the questions that we're going to talk through today, just to give some context. The way that we go to market is that we're selling consulting, engineering, and design services to global customers, and we're really helping them with the big infrastructure challenges of the world today. So helping us have reliable power, clean water, and always-on data connectivity. That's how we make this podcast work today. And so I'm going to talk a little bit about how we're selling both direct and through other partnerships and in that kind of context for you and the viewers today.

This is perfect. I'm sure a lot of viewers will relate to that and we're using those resources every day. So you've had such a long and successful career driving sales excellence. What do you see as the biggest shifts in how organizations approach sales today, especially in your industry?

I think the biggest change is that our clients are no longer sticking in nice, neat verticals on a PowerPoint slide of where they used to be by industry type. And so their needs are really changing very dramatically, Marie, and to the point of, The sellers now have to be able to replicate and really navigate through those different changes. So an example of that is a lot of energy-related clients that we serve. It used to be that they made molecules or they made electrons or they turned all that into gigabytes. Now we're finding our clients are becoming molecule companies now getting into electron providers, creating power, or data center customers are now saying, hey, we're going to be experts in getting our own power. Or using water and so forth. So everything that was the traditional norms has really dramatically changed with our sellers, and they need to understand that— what's going on differently in the boardroom of their clients and in their assets and in the field and their own end consumers, as well as how do you make those changes back in our own organization so that we're relevant and contemporary and topical with how our customers are really making very different decisions today. Hmm.

So it's more complex. The limits are becoming more blurred. And so how do they get educated? How do they manage to navigate?

Yeah, they really do have to become almost embedded within the client and really be a lot more focused on their end mission, understanding about their objectives, their culture, how they define value as they navigate through the decision-making units. How are they all coordinated with their own priorities and their own motivations to do that? And so often I think sellers are more successful, Marie, often when they're able to connect the dots internally within their clients' organizations and say, hey, look, in order to get this asset approved, we're going to need IT or we're going to need maybe operations. Are you aware how they're perceiving risk or perceiving benefit? And often I think the seller's job is to navigate and orchestrate and bring all these conversations both internally at the client side and then really help them get through that. I think also what's different, Marie, is in terms of planning, like which accounts are the ones we really should be pursuing and chasing, we're really thinking a lot more about a multi-year, maybe 5 or even 10 years out. Today, this pursuit maybe isn't high value or isn't creating a lot of recurring. value for us, but we see the trend where this market's going is really where the bigger potential will be for that account. So think of maybe a 5-year lifecycle return versus a 1-year transactional annual operating plan. And I think that also is the job of the seller to understand that and help with that strategy build. And then also bring that strategy back into our organization to make people aware the decisions we're making with resource, with people, that should be over a 5-year vision for that client, not just a single transactional event.

I'm taking away that they need to be embedded at the clients. I love that expression. And also that they need to think longer term, right? From moving from 1 year to 5 to 10 years. So be more strategic in some ways.

Very much on that strategy side. This other word segmentation comes up a lot, Marie, and our sellers really need to be able to Understand different types of client, different kinds of need, and maybe a client that is in the same industry, a power company or a data center technology company, they don't behave the same way just because they're in the same vertical or SIC code. And so it's important that sellers understand how we can add value isn't universally peanut buttered the same way, and they're going to have to adapt and be very flexible, even if they're serving very similar accounts. who seem to have the same needs, but their justifications and the way they buy are also very, very different as well.

Yeah. So a lot of learning for them, a lot of listening to the specific client needs seem to be important skills in this environment. So now beyond closing deals, successful sales teams focus on those long-term client relationships. Now imagine like the 5 to 10 years deal. What are the best practices you've seen for them to deliver that ongoing value? What do they need to do?

We think about the, almost the DNA of a professional salesperson in today's world. And I think it starts with curiosity. They really have to be curious about how that company works, how they operate, how they make decisions, where they're involved, what's in their value chain, both upstream and downstream of how that client generates value for their own customers, what kind of regulators, what kind of other constraints and competition do they have? So they should always be observant. And it goes back to that embedding, right? Are they literally spending time walking with the client through their warehouses, through their plants, even through their delivery systems, and just seeing opportunities where our company could perhaps help them with either connections or with insight or research? I think that's where you start to build that relationship. And then ultimately, you gain that entitlement to come back with maybe a higher value, more capital intensive connection with that client. So we're also looking for sellers that can not only give the client what they're asking for, but potentially challenge them, Marie, and say, look, we're seeing leaders in your industry do different approaches. There are other options or other ways to think about managing operating expenses versus capital expense, et cetera. And so giving options back to the client, even if they didn't request them upfront. That takes a certain degree of emotional courage and intelligence about what's the right approach. So we're looking for sellers who really can not only come back here to the headquarters and say, hey, we need a different capability set or a different way to propose or create value, but also we've challenged the client to think about managing their risk, managing their capital deployment different ways. And we're going to need the whole company to get behind us to explain how that's going to be the right solution for that customer as well. So I think those are just some of the areas that we're seeing. Also, in our world, we're an engineering culture as well, Marie. So we're finding that a lot of salespeople have entered into our profession by coming through the ranks of delivering the solution as well. So that's very powerful when you can have sellers who not only really understand how business gets done and deals get made, but they also understand how the technology of that particular industry works. And being able to bring the two together, but more importantly, bring the whole team, all the real subject matter experts, that's really changing. So we're asking our sellers to be more comfortable to become the client expert than maybe the traditional technology or product expert, a dynamic that we're looking for when we're either recruiting new salespeople or as we're coaching and training and stretching our own incumbent sellers who are awesome as well to do that.

Yeah, it feels another level of selling because you really need to understand the technology. You need to be able to challenge the client with new solutions. So almost becoming a problem solver for your client, and that requires that kind of knowledge really, and courage.

And courage to do that.

Yeah. Yeah.

We have some phrases that might be fun. We talk about zippering. So literally finding ways where the salesperson is creating connections From the C-suite down all the way through into operations, procurement, even legal, HR, IT, and in the field, or maybe with supply chain and other partners as well. And when that zip ring is very strong and the seller really is orchestrating that and managing that, the client gets a lot more confidence in how we can help value justify for them, as well as they can see how that relationship is going to go throughout the delivery and the lifecycle of that solution that we're offering. And Marie, I know you would be upset if I didn't mention they've got to be, I think, a new generation of much more being data savvy.

Yeah.

Really understand how to go use the data that's out there, turn that huge amount of information that's out there into insights, leverage AI and other search capabilities. Think about that omnichannel experience. So we're looking for our sellers to be more strategic, really understand how sales and marketing and strategy all comes together And really take the signals from the client when they're ready, when they're really thinking there's a higher propensity for them to be approached or engaged or go to the next step. So really using all the data that we have to make a much more comfortable, more credible, compelling journey with the client as well.

Yeah, so they, they have a number of skills on top of the ones we talked about. They connect us at the client, but also internally.

Absolutely.

So, you know, all the relationship building skills and they have to be data savvy. How do you help those sellers that might not have all those skills from day one to keep the motivation to keep learning? How do you do that at Black& Veatch?

With us, it's a very integrated fusion of our strategy team with market research and insights coming together with our government affairs team that are looking at the regulatory environment. And then our marketeers are thinking about how do we create different ways of finding the client where they are today? Where are they researching? Where are they making critical decisions? So is it an infographic? Is it a podcast like this, Marie? Is it something more informative that helps them break down complexity so that the salesperson can bring all those tools, all that content at the right time to the client? We're also investing in more of a back office support for our key account managers. So we're looking at sales development reps who are helping the seller to manage all the many tasks they have. They have a certain account load and they're trying to treat them all incredibly well and they can't do it at the same intensity. So again, leveraging technology to curate the agenda or the notes from the meeting and the follow-up, making sure that everyone's aware of what the next meeting's about and there's a lot of preparation done. And the follow-through and the follow-through. So really helping the client drive the decision process that they want. They want to have a big outcome and they're excited about that. And then how do we make sure we're trying to use technology and everyone working collaboratively well, that velocity through the pipe is reduced.

Mm-hmm.

And we're, we're also being very mindful of where things are pausing. Is there a hangup? Is it on our side? Is it on their side? Maybe is it exogenous, like a regulation that's diffuse or uncertain right now in today's world? How do we be more empathetic about where the client is in making those decisions themselves and then with their core of colleagues that they're going to have to bring on board as well?

Yes, so they're getting a lot of tools and processes in place to support them. Curious about how you're able to provide feedback to them, because I imagine they also being observed sometimes in action, sometimes they're by themselves, but sometimes a number of people are in the room. What's the process of giving feedback so they get that in-the-field kind of continuous improvement?

It happens in a number of ways. In our business process, certainly for a very large capital commitment, the salesperson leads what we call an executive review board. And here we pitch the project or the opportunity to work with the client to our executive team. And so by this point, we've done a lot of work with the salesperson explaining the strategy, explaining the account plan, the competition, the history. Why have we won in the past? Or maybe why have they not selected us in the past? What's going to be different about this opportunity? So that internal preparation really helps the seller understand how the company is excited to support them, but what they need to get proof points back so that we can commit resource and inventory. for these very large, complex designs and engineering that we manage for the client. Once they're out in the field, a lot of it is, I call it riding shotgun. So are you there with the seller, Maria? Are you out with them, right? Maybe it's a Teams call, a Zoom call, and you can observe and contribute, or you're literally riding in the passenger seat in their car, observing how they're preparing for the meeting in advance, even in, in the parking lot outside. What's the 3 things we've got to come out with at this particular call?

Yes.

Did we ask about it? How can I help you maybe just remember those one or two things that we wanted to leave with the client? And then certainly leaders should be observing, did we give our sellers the tools? Is our sales pitch really helping, or is it just talking about us and not really mentioning the client? Did our proposals or our quotations, did they really answer the question in the right way? And in some cases, maybe they're even disqualifying us because we're just not listening or reflecting the vocabulary of the language that the procurement team or the decision makers are looking for relative to the competition as well. So certainly that coaching on the field real time is super important. And then behind all that, Marie, is just a constellation of real-time metrics. We're living in a world where I think sales, you can't hide, and the numbers and the data is very transparent. I love it. And just teaching our sellers how all their own information is helping them manage their time, their priorities, which clients are really ready and which ones need more nurturing. That is a, I'd say, a culture change. It's a behavioral change. But again, it's really giving feedback to these sellers about, hey, look, this is what better practice looks like within our organization. These are the ones that are doing better. These are the benchmarks in maybe the broader industry that you could be aware of. And just having that constant continuous improvement and that competitiveness. So we do a lot of gamification. Some spiffs, some compensation, just really trying to drive the right behaviors. And we're big believers that if you do the right things, ultimately the right results will follow through as well.

I'm glad I asked this question because it seems to be quite a complete process and it has coaching at its core. And you know how much I value coaching. And I believe this probably also improves retention because you really invest in those sellers, providing the tools, the access to knowledge, but also that ongoing feedback that is invaluable.

Absolutely. Yeah, we have a big program around sales as a community, and we want our sellers to really believe they can be successful for the rest of their career in the profession of selling. It is as honorable as being a great engineer or a great finance person or a leader in HR. Obviously, a lot of sellers aspire to become leaders of sellers, so we have a program about top talent recognition and how do we kind of groom them? As you know, Marie, not every great seller becomes a great sales leader, so you really have to look for different behaviors and coaching and learning and listening. There's different kinds of skills. And then also, can sales become a platform into other leadership roles within our organization as well? So we look for how to really build the professional side of being in the career of sellers. I would argue it's a very lonely job relative to other functions. They're out often on their own. They're representing the company. Many times they don't come back to the headquarters or the hub, so they really are trying to communicate and convey everything that we can do when they're almost riding solo in front of the client. So really having that empathy for how to give them that kind of toolkit. And then we're thinking about compensation and recognition. How much is at risk? How much is guaranteed? We do a lot of team selling, so we want to make sure that They can benefit from making a team-wide decision versus a personal individual decision, and then really giving them belief that as they do well, we're going to kind of up the upside of their recognition and compensation. It's great that we pay our sellers well. When they do well, the whole company benefits. And good example, Black& Veatch is an employee-owned company, so everyone shares in our profits, and we like that. So successful sellers are good indicator that we're all going to do well. I think clients, they pick up on people that are confident and zealous and really just passionate about doing their job. And so successful salespeople invariably are ones that are successful again and again because the clients see a pattern and they see a process that's working well by that sales leader. And they're able to feel confident that this person gets them and can help them make their decision well. So All those combinations coming together, Marie.

We love leaving our listeners with some practical tips. I'd love to help people who are leading sales teams or looking to improve their sales effectiveness, for you to give them like 3 practical tips they can implement today to drive better results.

First thing I would say is go to the data. I mentioned data a number of times, but have a, have a relevant dashboard of both leading and lagging indicators. And it will give you a spectrum, particularly where you've got teams of teams and maybe all building up at a divisional or global level. Understand what is maybe generic across the whole organization. Maybe our strategy isn't working. Maybe we need better marketing pipeline development, all the way down to, are we seeing things that are maybe connected at a leadership level or a sub-regional level? Is it a behavioral thing or a strategy thing as well? So We're trying to give indications of, is it go get more pipeline or is it we're not doing the right behaviors, the right activities, the right hygiene, so to speak. When you've then got that working dashboard, get out in the field, be empathetic, both virtually and physically, go to trade shows, sit in with conferences, and really understand how our sellers are working to approach, to engage, to advance, and then understanding, is our sales methodology correct? Are our content and our tools really mapped to that? And then lastly, Maria, make all the internal connections that you can with the sellers. So make sure that they know that we have researchers, we have people in procurement or legal or marketing that can really help them, government affairs, resources they're typically not too aware of, or they don't know who the players are. And bring those people out with you to conferences or out in the field or be on calls with the client. It really gives the seller a lot of confidence that they have a great team behind them. They can marshal and leverage those people. They know how they make decisions and prioritize their time. And obviously the client sees that you're bringing a very compelling A-team to help them with their challenges and opportunities too. So that's very powerful as well.

Fabulous. So start with the data and then show your face in the field. Get out there, be on the road. You're always traveling.

Love it.

I love being on the road.

Yeah. And finally, the last one is maybe sometimes underestimated, but have that cross-functional leadership. Be a connector within the organization because then you can build a team that will make the deal process more successful. Yeah.

You said it really well, Marie. Thank you. Great tips.

Patrick, thank you. This has been an insightful conversation. Thank you for sharing your expertise on sales excellence and business evolution.

I'm gonna write down these tips and tricks too, as well, just so I can remember them as well. Thank you.

So for our listeners, if you're looking for more insights on sales excellence, make sure to follow Patrick on LinkedIn, and you can also visit proteus-international.com on leadership and transformation. Thank you for tuning in, and until next time, here's to creating the success you truly want.

We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business and the life you want. To find out more about how we support our clients in leadership, learning, and change, visit us at proteus-international.com. Have an excellent day, and thanks for listening.