#109 How To Get Your First Board Role

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Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Proteus Leaders Show. I'm your host, Marie-Olive. Today's episode is for all of you thinking, how do I get onto a board for the first time? My guest is Jackie O'Dee, a former headhunter with over 2 decades of global executive search experience. And a deep commitment to helping executives make the leap into non-executive roles. She's a longstanding coach and advisor on board readiness programs, including at the London Business School, where we work together, and the Financial Times, where we met. We launched the How to Get Your First Board coaching program at London Business School together in May this year. Jacqui brings a unique blend of insider insights, practical tools, and encouragement for anyone looking to secure their first NED role. I'm so excited for you to hear her perspective on what boards are really looking for, how to stand out, and how to navigate this often opaque world. Jacqui, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

So happy to have you here. So Jacqui, you've worked with many boards and aspiring NEDs, What changed or stayed the same about what boards are looking for in first-time board members?

I think there's a lot of talk these days about this changing world with global uncertainty, geopolitically, technologically, and so on. But actually, if you look back over the last maybe 25 years since the time of the internet boom, and then the burst of the bubble, then we had the financial crisis, then we went into the COVID global crisis. So actually, boards have been working pretty much in a state of permanent change for many years. So to be honest, the fundamentals of what boards are looking for haven't really changed. They're still looking for expertise, they're looking for that independence, and that sort of good judgment. And so I suppose, as boards these days have become more professionalized, and I don't know whether that's as a result of more regulation, or whether it's just a changing expectation of board members, but Certainly, the NEDs today need to be more flexible, more agile in their thinking. It's a much more fast-paced world that we all work in today.

I would add time, because what I've realised on boards, especially when you have those crises, it's much more than 1, 2 days a month. You have to make yourself available. So I think there is a bit of a misconception sometimes about the time you would need if you're on a board. What do you think of that?

Absolutely. And I always say to people, if you get that job description from a headhunter that says this will take you 25 or 30 days a year, in my view, double it and add a bit.

Yes.

Because it's never going to be that 25 or 30 days. You've got to think about the board meetings themselves, the preparation that's needed for that. And some of the board packs can be quite extensive these days. There's all the committee meetings because new board members will very much be encouraged to join board committees as part of their learning, conversations in between board times, strategy days, meet the board days as part of workforce engagement, strategy away days, socials, all sorts of things. It is a big commitment and you really have to be dedicated to want to do this.

Yes. And informal meetings also, that they're not scheduled, but you are more effective as a board member if you have them one-on-one before the board meeting.

So those conversations you're having with the chair or the senior independent director before a board meeting, or even with your colleagues, the other NEDs, and particularly if you're a new board member, it's always a good idea to sort of buddy up with somebody who's relatively new to the board who can help guide you through those first board meetings and so on.

Now maybe there's been a shift, and I'm hopeful about that, around diversity. Can you tell me a little bit what you've seen on that end?

Yeah, I mean, diversity has become this sort of buzzword, but I think this broadening of experience generally generally around the board table to improve decision-making is the main aim here. And so that diversity is of thought, is of background and experience. And so it's not just limited to, say, gender or ethnicity. It's much broader than that. In fact, we're seeing a desire to have younger board members. The corollary is that the younger board members obviously won't have the depth of experience and have that pattern recognition and that context to be able to work with, but may bring other specialist skills. But that broadening of background means that instead of going to the traditional sort of C-suite leadership that we've seen in the past, boards are much more willing to look at candidates from a wider range of background. And therefore they may come from the public sector, from government, from academia. So it's really broadened the candidate pool, which you think would make life easier. For people who are aspiring to be on their first board, but actually it's still a competitive market. There are only on average 10 or 11 board seats around the table. So it's still going to be competitive. And you don't want board members to come onto a board and go off a board too soon. They need to have that longevity in role to be able to contribute. And so therefore the turnover is not as fast as it might. I think the average length of time on a board roughly is around about the 5-year point.

And on that note, I think also they're looking for more subject matter experts in all those kinds of emerging fields, digital, cyber, AI, climate, you name it. So you more and more have to be very proficient in those domains.

Yeah. And I think it's important for non-executives to always think that once they've got that first board role, they haven't stopped learning. They're learning as they go through and therefore always add to that learning and background. I think an important point to make is that whilst There will always be those hot topics that come up from time to time, and AI is the current one. We must have somebody on the board who knows something about AI. But you've got to ask, what for? How will we deploy this? Have we got somebody in the organisation already? Do we need to give up a board seat just for the person who's the expert on AI? It's going to affect every part of business, and therefore everyone eventually is going to have a good level of knowledge of that. The important thing to say about the specialists is that they need to be broad enough as business leaders in order to contribute properly to the discussions around the board table. If they're just there as the marketing person or the cybersecurity person, that won't be enough.

Yes, because as you said, there are only 10 board seats. So if you needed an expert in all those areas, either you would need like 20 of them. When people are reflecting and thinking, am I ready for this first board role? What does readiness look like? What should they think about before going down this path, in your opinion?

Yeah, I think that's a good question. A lot of people say, what, what qualifies me to be a board director? And it's not just about seniority. It's not just for the sort of the CEOs and the CFOs who've probably got some good board experience anyway, as executives. I always say there are sort of 4 Buckets that I would use as a sort of a test. The first one would be leadership. It'd be great if, you know, you've got that operational leadership experience, but not necessarily as a CEO. You may have been a leader of a division, a department, a region, something like that. But if you've run a P&L, for instance, that would be a good leadership qualifier. You might've led a function, finance, HR, something like that. So leadership would be the first one. The second, and these are in no particular order, strategic, obviously you need to have that sort of breadth of thinking, that ability to look at the bigger picture. So you may have worked in strategy or developed policy or just been involved in large-scale, perhaps transformation and change projects, something like that. The commercial side, obviously there is a commercial imperative here usually, even in a nonprofit board there'll probably be a fundraising element or something. Somebody from a sales and marketing background, for instance, would be interesting. So some sort of idea of the commercial imperative of building, growing, and the long-term nature of sustaining the business. And then finally, finance. You don't need to have come from the financial function to be on a board, but you do need to be able to read the balance sheet and ask the right questions of the finances. So of course, different people will have different kind of balances between those 4 pillars. As a sort of a rule of thumb, they would be the things that I would ask people to have a look at.

I love those 4 pillars, and I think you need to look at those in conjunction with the type of boards you want to join, because we talked about that quite a lot with our students, is that there are many boards, like from non-for-profit to government boards to publicly listed or private boards, and they will require different combinations of skills. I mean, fundraising could be very relevant for earlier stage company.

Absolutely. And so you've got to really understand what your value is and know based on the experience you've got, what kinds of boards are going to find your experience valuable. So to be able to say, I know what scale I've been operating at, I know what type of sectors I've been working in, I know how international I've been, to shape what kind of boards to target. And I think that's really important because the more focused you can be about targeting the right type of boards, it makes your job search so much easier.

Mm-hmm.

So really understanding that value of what you bring in terms of specialist skills you may have in sector experience, international, and the other specialist skills that we talked about earlier. And then of course, there's the all-important soft skills. So temperament to be a board director is so important. It's not for everybody. Some people just like to do stuff and make things happen and be more operational. Whereas for a board role, you've got to kind of sit on your hands and use your wisdom and get things done through influence. It's all about asking the right questions. And I liken the Ned role really to ASC, A-S-C, advise, support, and challenge. And if you can do those things in a way that isn't going to be asking questions for the sake of asking questions. You've got to have asked the right questions. You've got to have done your homework and read the board packs properly and really think, is this question going to be helpful about making a decision, or am I just curious about something?

Yeah, I cannot agree more. The soft skills, I feel, become even more important, and maybe the underlying one is that listening skill we talk so much about, because this is What will help you to ask the right questions at the right moments, help you not to speak. I find that's quite a good one to hone on a board. And I still remember when I followed the Financial Times Ned Diploma that the first module was all about soft skills and coaching skills. And I was like, am I at the right course? And I was.

That element of coaching and advising the executive is really important. And often board directors are asked to coach those who actually on the senior management team aspiring to be on the board as executives in the future. So coaching and mentoring is really important. But also as well as influencing skills and asking the questions in the right way, you've also got to have a certain humility because, you know, as a board director, you're not going to have the answers to everything. And you need to know, as you say, when to speak up and when just to listen. And also to have that right level, then it's a balance of Self-confidence and low ego. And somebody who's always asking the question for the sake of having their voice heard is not helpful around the board table.

I think a good tip would be to remember why you've been brought on that board. What are the particular skills that they wanted? And so those are the areas where you need to contribute the most. It doesn't mean you can't say anything about the other areas, but just remember why you're here.

Although I have seen chairs question somebody that they only contribute on their area of expertise. And I think, again, that's where the confidence level comes in, that once you get confident on a board, you will be expected to contribute to the other broader areas of decision-making. And that's why, as we said earlier, you're not going to get specialist seats on boards. You need to be a broad business leader and business decision-maker as well.

That's true. And you need to continue to learn, as you were saying earlier, so then you can add value on those new topics. AI wasn't on the board agenda 5 years ago. So—

Exactly that. We're all learning.

Yes. Now we've delivered board readiness programs at London Business School. You also worked with Deloitte on this topic. I'm curious about what are some of the most common misconceptions for Aspiring NEDs that are trying to secure this first board role?

We touched on it earlier. The first misconception is probably about the time commitment and the longevity of the engagement, that tenure, checking out how long am I going to be expected to serve? What is expected of me? What's in my appointment letter? What will I need to think about? What are my legal responsibilities? And that's really important to understand what the legal responsibilities are in that jurisdiction, wherever it is in the world, and for that particular sector or for that particular company, for instance. What is it that I need to be aware of? It will take a lot of preparation. So whatever you can learn about boards beforehand will be really helpful. There's a misconception that I must get my first board role, so it's kind of a race against time, and I'll just take the first one that's offered to me.

Totally.

And that's a mistake because you'll have to go through with this and probably, and sit there for your 3 or 5-year term or whatever. And that mistake will be on your CV forever. So think very carefully about that first board role. If it's not right for you, say thanks, but no thanks, and wait for the next one. Because you've got to be engaged. You've got to be prepared to do all that reading of the papers, engage with what that company is doing, what's going on in the sector, what are the trends, what are the competitors doing? And remember, you're serving not just shareholders, but also all the other stakeholders, whether they're customers, suppliers, employees, and the local community and society at large. Having that interest is really key. And that interest also in governance, to be that non-executive asking the right questions. So make sure that you're going to have fun.

It's not for everyone, as you said earlier. Sometimes people would tell me, just apply to Many, and it will work in the end. And I think what I've realized is the board search is very different from an executive search. They're looking for specific skills, real added value, so you need to have a targeted approach and be very clear about what you bring.

And as we said earlier, understanding your value and the kinds of boards that are going to benefit from what you bring. So really understanding what your contribution is going to be to That particular board. And how will you find that out? Being self-aware and asking yourself those questions, but actually ask for feedback from other people. And that leads into things like networking. So asking for that feedback and making those inquiries early on, even before you get to the point of being active, perhaps in your board searches, just say, do you think I'd make a good board director? To somebody who you trust and who's gone onto boards and knows a bit about it. And just say, what's it like being on a board? And doing that sort of proactive learning and asking for advice and feedback yourself. Other people see you in the way that you don't see yourself.

I think you told me once to stay away from the spray and pray approach.

Exactly.

I love this saying. And then you're talking about networks. I love to spend a bit more time on that because we all hear networks are key. And so For someone who doesn't have those boardroom connections, what practical steps can they take to build that visibility and credibility with the right people?

People have this idea about networking that it's somehow putting themselves out there in a place that they're uncomfortable. I always say, if you don't want to go on panels and be a presenter or write any thought leadership or put yourself out there in conferences and so on, Don't do it. Do something that works for you, that you're comfortable in, and keep it simple. I mean, networking is simply getting in touch with people and asking them for some advice and help. And if that's just getting in touch with somebody in your own network that you're comfortable with, a former boss perhaps has gone on to do something, another colleague has gone on to do board work, or somebody in the LBS network has Organize something. Look at your own network, maybe your university alumni or whatever it happens to be, and think about who would be the top 5 people I'd have on my list. You don't have to talk to hundreds of people. Talk to the top 5, 10 people, and then ask them for views. And everybody you talk to, ask them for 2 other people that you should be talking to who could be helpful. And suddenly your network will— snowball and you'll end up talking to the right people. Yeah, we all made mistakes and sometimes we talk to people and go, hmm, they weren't so helpful, but you move on. And I think the important thing about networking, it is networking. It's building a rapport. It's building a relationship. It's not, have you got a job for me?

It's—

Right. Let people know what you're looking for. And a lot of people won't know that you're looking for a board, particularly if you've been a very successful executive. all your career, they won't necessarily know that you're looking at this sort of pivot or looking to take on a non-executive role alongside your executive career. So, just getting that message out saying, hi, we haven't talked for a while. Would love to catch up. This is what I'm thinking of doing. Would love your advice. And ask them specifics. Can we meet for a coffee or can we have a Teams call for half an hour and talk about this? Be very specific because people are busy. And you just want to tell them what it is you're looking for. And can you have that conversation? And then when you talk, all sorts of other things will come up. You can ask for feedback, ask them what it's like, what was their route up. Headhunters, the most helpful to them. Talking of headhunters, again, it's building a relationship with them and letting them know that you're looking for board roles, because even if they know you and have you on their radar, then they might just assume you're very happy in your executive career.

Yeah.

And wouldn't dream of picking up the phone to talk to you about a board role. So you've gotta tell them what you're looking for and the sectors that you excel in, the company types and scale that you are familiar with.

Yeah. I love so many things in what you said. The first is build connection. So to reframe that, it's not about getting a job directly in that first meeting. Second is Just let your relevant network know that you're looking for a board. It's not obvious, even if you're working on your positioning. And then you have to be ready for a long journey. You know, some people might get lucky and get a board in the first few months. It took me 28 rejections before I got my first board. And that was fine with me because I was determined and patient to get there at some point.

Yeah, absolutely. You have to learn to be comfortable with rejection. And despite me saying things like, always ask for feedback, you've got to be prepared for the fact that some of the feedback will be negligible. Feedback from a headhunter, ask them about feedback on your CV or why you didn't get the role. Was there anything you could have done differently at interview? Always ask for feedback, but bear in mind that many times you won't get it.

Yeah.

Be patient, as you say, be resilient. It can take a lot of time and just keep at it. The more you keep at it, the more I think you will be able to hone your pitch. Practice, practice, practice. You will get better at it, and as you get better at it, it will be easier to explain the value you have and how you can contribute to boards, and that makes it easier for other people to remember your story.

You don't want to get on a board because you need it. I always warn people, you need to really have strategies so you're not desperate, because it shows.

Yeah.

And also then you might get on the wrong board. And as you said earlier, it's a time commitment. And if you leave in the middle, it will harm your reputation in some ways. So that first board role is very important for your future as a board member.

Yeah, definitely. And the first board role also sends a message about what you might be looking for. So people will look at it and go, oh, okay, that person's stepped onto that particular company type or that particular sector and so on. Maybe they'll be looking for something similar next as they build their portfolio. So yeah, it definitely sends a message about the direction you're going. But that said, many first board roles are the smaller, unpaid, perhaps charity, pro bono roles to get you into board work, to, as a soft entrance into board work before you get that first commercial role. And that's fine. No problem with that at all. And people recognize that just because the charity board was your first one doesn't mean you only want charity board roles. It does show that you're willing to be taken seriously as a board member or a trustee, and you are making decisions around a board table. You're building your experience all the time. There again, of course, you've got to be prepared to give up more time because you're giving up all your time and not getting any reward other than the love of it.

Yes, and as you said earlier, as you think through your value and what you bring, you also need to think about What am I missing? It could be experience, and then you need to build up that experience through charity or startup board roles. And so really, you need to be self-aware about what you bring, what you don't bring yet, but you can build over time.

And often the thing that's missing is confidence, and therefore stepping into something smaller or unpaid gives you that confidence to know, actually, I do know what I'm talking about. I can help with decision-making. I can help the executive to be more effective. So a lot of it is about confidence building.

Finally, as we always do on this show, Jacqui, I'd love some practical takeaways for our listeners. So what are your top 2, 3 tips for listeners who want to get serious about landing their first board role in the next Yeah.

Be realistic, really understand what are the things that you bring to the board table? What is your contribution and your value and to what kinds of company boards and types that you will be most appreciated? So be realistic. You're not going to aim for your top Fortune 500 company probably as your first board role. So be realistic about scale and type and so on. Be patient, as we said, be patient, be tenacious, keep at it. That resilience in your search strategy, just to keep going. You will get there. Keep up with the networking because the first board role is most likely to come through your network. It's people who know you and who can vouch for you and advocate for you. So actually more likely to get your first board role through your own network than say through the headhunting community. And of course, be proactive. Get out there, do whatever learning you can do, get that experience maybe on a smaller order pro bono board, but really show that you're willing to engage and put the effort in.

Awesome. So be realistic, be patient, and be proactive. Simple to remember and so true based on my experience. Jacqui, thank you so much. Your insights have been incredibly helpful. especially in demystifying the process and offering such clear guidance. I know many of our listeners will feel more confident and better equipped to take that first step toward the boardroom.

It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for inviting me.

My pleasure. And to our listeners, if you're ready to take the next step in your own leadership journey, head over to proteus-international.com to explore resources, coaching, and ways we support leaders at every stage of growth. Thank you for tuning in, and until next time, here's to creating the board leadership you truly want.

We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business, and the life you want. To find out more about how we support our clients in leadership, learning, and change, visit us at proteus-international.com. Have an excellent day, and thanks for listening.