#119 From Classroom to Boardroom: Inside WomenExecs on Boards with Rosie Bichard

Welcome to the Proteus Leader Show, a podcast for forward-looking leaders driving transformation in their organizations, within their teams, or for themselves. Your host today is a senior leader at Proteus International, a firm that partners with companies around the world to make true transformation easier through change consulting, leadership development, and executive coaching. If you're looking for fresh perspectives and practical insights, can take back to work today, you're in the right place. Enjoy the episode.

Welcome to the Proteus Leader Show, where we explore how to lead with clarity, courage, and humanity in a rapidly changing world. I'm your host, Marie Hollié. Today, I'm delighted to welcome not only an accomplished board director and investor, but also a friend. Rosie Bishar and I met in 2017 at Harvard Business School on the Succeeding as a Corporate Director program, and we've stayed connected ever since through our shared passion for great governance and for advancing women leaders. Rosie is a non-executive director at UBS Asset Management in the UK and chair of the UBS AM UK Audit Committee, bringing over 30 years of experience in the investment industry to the boardroom. She's a CFA, charterholder, a qualified risk director, and holds both the Corporate Director Certificate from Harvard Business School and the ESG Global Competent Boards designation, all reflecting her deep commitment to responsible business, risk governance, and sustainability. She also serves as co-chair for EMEA at Women Execs on Boards, a network of over 400 senior women prepared for board service. at Harvard Business School, a community that formally came together in 2018 and has since grown into a powerful global force for getting more qualified women onto boards. In this episode, we'll talk about how that group came into being from our 2017 classroom, how it has grown into a worldwide network, what it really takes for women to access and succeed in board roles, and the practical things leaders and organizations can do to support more women at the top table. Welcome, Rosie. Let's dive in.

Thanks so much for having me, Marie. This is great.

My pleasure. Now, Rosie, when we were in the Succeeding as a Corporate Director program at Harvard Business School together, what do you remember about the early spark that led to what became Women Execs on Boards? What made the co-founders think, This could be more than just a course alumni group.

So you and I took the program together in 2017, and I still remember that week very well. We were the second year of the program that Harvard set up in 2016, and I remember hearing before I went to the program about the fact that the women from the previous year had stayed together and were keeping in touch. Via monthly calls to support each other. And that was actually one of the factors that attracted me to taking the program. I thought that's the kind of community I'd like to be part of. Obviously, the Harvard experience, the teaching, but also the fact that you had a network that stayed together. And so when we left the classroom, I jumped in and I started dialing into those monthly calls. And that regularity and follow-up with each other was really important. And a kind of supportive spirit that's looking out for each other, but also the importance of volunteering. And if something needed doing, people would put their hand up. Calls were really about sharing knowledge and experience. We started to suggest bringing in partners and speakers to share ideas and help each other, and also the connections and what had worked. And we had some amazing people on the early calls. The real turning point was when the founders, Bonnie Higman and Lisa Pentt, got together and put together a spreadsheet with everyone's names and addresses and work experience and positions. And they really thought, look at these people, if we formalize our network, we've got something really powerful here, and we can all help each other. It can be so much more than a bunch of individuals. So I think it's the intentional creation of a community that was important and the knowledge that together we're so much more than we are as individuals.

Yes, I definitely felt that spark from the beginning. Now I remember when we first came together, especially in EMEA, it was maybe like less than 20 of us in that first event in Paris. So I'm curious because you've been such a driving force of doing that, How do you grow a group like that to 400+ people around the world and so active?

There have been a lot of things that have gone into it, and particularly in Europe, as you said, we were very few at the beginning. But what we've done, and I think it's been very powerful, has been to recommend the program to other women in our circles and women leaders that we think would enjoy it. They've gone on to take the program, and then they've joined our network, and it's grown like that. And so each person that comes in, they bring their own experience, their own connections, and their own knowledge of what it takes to succeed, and we share it with each other, right? That's been incredibly important. Another thing has been the partnership we've built with Harvard. They're very happy with the way we've worked. It means that the course itself has been a great success, and also that the name and the fact that the women are highly qualified and have really excellent experience in all walks of corporate life—that's meant that we've got a number of partners globally who are very eager to work with us, and they bring us their thought leadership and education opportunities and so on. And again, that's something that attracts women to join our community to take advantage. of those kind of benefits. Women taking the program were often at a crossroads in their career. That was very much the case for you, right? And the same for me as well. I was taking a strategic break, and in many ways you're taking a risk and you're losing your previous work network, which for me was a big deal. But you also You step through another door and you're gaining a community of other women doing the same thing.

Mm-hmm.

And I think we, although all our experiences were so different, I think we really united around the fact that we were taking a step into the unknown. We brought a lot with us and we were supporting each other with that period of transition, which can be very lonely. And aiming high was in our DNA, right? Everyone in different ways. women in that room were so impressive, and they continuously impress me in excellence, in innovation, in learning. The very fact that we're in that classroom at Harvard shows that we're eager to, to learn more. But also what we felt within that group was that it's about unconditional support for each other.

Yeah.

It's really a sisterhood. And that's been very powerful during COVID when not only were we on that path of transition, which can be quite lonely, but we had that gap in our lives that I think the few of us who've lived through that within our community felt that it became much stronger actually during that period. So we've very intentionally built a culture out of the best of those Points. And our values, which we express when we set the network up, are around connectivity, about courage, speaking up, and commitment to each other.

Yes.

And those things, I think, have continued to define the community. People are very generous with their time and expertise, and they support each other. Personally, when I was interviewing for my first board role, people spent a lot of time with me, even just to help me work out how to do a Zoom interview successfully, because I was interviewing in early 2020 and we'd never done that kind of thing before. That I remember someone saying, you just gotta smile a lot more.

I'm glad you're adding this point because it was critical transition times for many of us. And as you said, it can be so lonely, and find other brilliant women at that. Crucial moment in the career and being able to share what you don't know, what you're afraid of, brainstorm ideas for your career. In my case, I built a portfolio career, which wasn't really developed for many leaders at the time. So it was going on that journey together.

The last thing probably is that it's incredibly global and there are lots of other groups and great networks, but Often they're more local, and I've really enjoyed the diversity of that experience. We've all got the Harvard experience in common, the fact, as you said, we're all committed to excellence, we're going through the transition in our career, but the diversity of the group itself is very inspiring.

Yes, absolutely. I realize I'm on 3 boards in 3 different countries. That's also then what you get because you have all those connections. And it's also linked to your experience, but for people who are looking to have those global opportunities, join a group that has global diversity in it. When you see an opportunity that could be a good match, you reach out to each of us individually. I'm always curious about how you're able to do that and to build one-on-one relationships as the group has continued to grow and evolve. How do you find the time?

I won't answer the one about the how do I find the time because I always just say I don't watch TV. So I think, Marie, to be honest, going back to the building a community, I think I just learned that I loved connecting people. That's a joy for me and a talent that I have. I guess when we were very few, even Globally, we were about 60 or 70 at the beginning, and each year we've added more people from the graduating classes. And then we've added a couple more classes that we take women leaders from. One of them's the Corporate Director Certificate, and the people who come out of that are already serving board directors. As a leader of that group from the beginning, I stepped up and I became vice president of the group in 2019 and then co- president and co-chair, it was really my job to get to know everybody. I think that's the secret of making a community like this succeed in order to be able to represent them to partners and for board opportunities when we were talking to potential board gatekeepers. And so if I knew their profile, then I could represent them and match them more successfully. It's also a joy to get to know people who are so incredibly talented and inspiring, and you're a great example. But we've got people from all walks of life who've achieved some amazing things. But as the network grew past about 150, I think there's a magic number, isn't there? You'll probably know this. Data science tells us that you can't hold more than, I don't know, 150 connections really close. So now I've become a bit more focused on my regional role, and I know I can have more impact there. I can know the people within my group better than I can for the whole network. Every year we have an annual symposium. It was in San Francisco this past year, the year before it was New York. And when I travel, it's a great joy to meet members from all across the world, and they come here as well. One of the great things about London, it's still such a crossroads, uh, and trying to distill what we've learned in the last few years to point people in the right direction. But Really, I think your deepest sense of community, you need to focus on where you can have the most impact.

Yes, I think those in-person meetings that we do, they could be informal, they could be in smaller groups, they matter, and they combine with virtual calls that are more focused maybe on education or bringing partners on board. So I think that the program has found a good mix of offers that are meeting the needs of us around the world. And I think that there's a lot of consultation that has happened with the members to meet the members' needs.

You're absolutely right. What's been wonderful, probably the most rewarding thing, has been finding great board roles for individuals. And some of that has happened through deliberate effort and reaching out to potential partners, and some of it has just happened by accident through conversations that have worked through some of those meetings. which have been facilitated. It's also been really rewarding seeing the people in our community develop strong friendships.

Yes.

Through the network. They've started to write books together. We've got at least 2 examples of that. Invest in each other's businesses, even go on holiday together. It's been quite impactful. So that's been fantastic. It's also really exciting, as you say, when you bring in new partners who are really impressed by what we've brought Together and meet the women and are just taken aback by the level and the richness of the conversation. The meeting that we had in London with WTW the other day in November, that was a very precious day because I think the theme, the depth of the conversations we had were just very impressive. So that's been great.

Hi, Gunica. You're talking about writing books together. What about doing podcasts together?

Exactly. Even that can happen, right?

Yes. Now, you bring this amazing combination of perspectives, having been an investor, having deep sustainability and risk governance expertise, multiple board roles, audit chair. From that vantage point, how do you see the landscape changing for directors on boards? And what are the barriers that still persist, especially to bring in first-time directors?

When you think about what boards are facing today, the landscape for directors overall has become much more challenging. It's much more complex. The role itself has become much more time-consuming, and overall it's just a much fuller job than it used to be even a decade ago, and therefore it needs board members who are qualified, who are really well prepared, who've got time and energy to commit to this. And you need to be able to marshal all of your experience, which has been built on decades of economic cycles, and be able to stand back and think strategically. However, you also need to be able to have the energy to support management to seize opportunities and build their innovation pipeline in this very fast-moving environment. You need to be highly experienced, but also young in spirit and curious and able to take risks. So everyone needs to be better prepared. They need to be more focused on fewer roles and more deeply engaged. We do definitely need a different breed of director, and I think that's changing. I think boards have started to see actually they need to bring in people with different kinds of expertise, more reflective of the way their businesses are evolving, and the pipeline has been changing quite a lot. I think sadly some of the rollback on things like diversity initiatives, and also to be honest, the huge wave of funding to technology and the need for speed and concern over some of the changes, has meant that there's less priority being given to newer board members, first-time directors in particular. Boards are less willing maybe to take risks, and that means that there are more serving directors being appointed to other roles. So that's still a bit of a challenge.

I've experienced it myself. This journey to your first board role is so challenging, even if on paper you have the credentials. I think I got at least 27 rejections, but this is where our group Comes into play because you need the support, you need people who believe in you. And so persistence is the first skill. And then I strongly believe that if you keep at it and find the exact opportunity where you have the exact skills that are required, then you'll get that first board role. What do you think?

I completely agree. It needs to be a good fit and it needs to be a good fit for you and a good fit for the board. And, and also the board members need to feel trust that you'll be able to complement the existing skills within their group and bring something new. And, and so they need to have trust that you're going to be the right person. That's difficult if you haven't got that board experience already, and that's why there's always the reluctance. But when it's the right place and the right time, then it works.

And you said something I think that is very important, is a kind of new skill set that are required for board members, that curiosity, willingness learn, to adapt. Because I think even if you're a first board member, once you're on that board, you can demonstrate the willingness to learn and then help educate actually board members that have been there for a long time, but maybe they didn't have as much of a learner mindset because they didn't need to. So I think it's becoming more and more an important skill with all the new hot topics that we need to be very fluent with.

Yeah, absolutely. And maybe it's just the willingness to ask questions and to look a little bit ignorant sometimes. The work of the board can be very complex, and a lot of the companies that we serve operate in very technical areas, sometimes very highly regulated. I work in financial services, and you can't know everything. And particularly as a board member, there's a great asymmetry of information.

Yeah.

Sometimes just saying, I'm sorry, I really don't understand that, or help me understand this.

I love this.

Could you tell me more about this? And then quite often when I've asked those kinds of questions, other board members come to me and say, I'm really glad you asked that. So I decided I'm not afraid of seeming a little bit stupid occasionally and asking the very simple questions, because if you don't understand them, there's a high likelihood that someone else doesn't either.

Yes.

And then you're not doing your job properly as a board member.

Yes. And it's back to humility and how you ask the questions. I think it's very constructive. It's open-ended. You can say, can you take me through your thinking? And that curiosity in the questioning, then the executives don't feel attacked and they're going to be open and explain. Thank you for sharing that. Now for our listeners, you've already shared so many tips. And it would be great to maybe summarize the key practical actions that aspiring board members could take into account starting this year, this new year, to move closer to those board opportunities and to open also more boardroom doors for others, for those leaders who want to support board diversity.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity. I think the first one For everyone, and I wish I'd been able to put this into practice myself a little earlier, is really to think strategically, particularly earlier on in your career, about how you can broaden your experience. Now, Marie, you did that because you moved from a finance function to a general management function. And I think there's always a lot of things happening when you're early in your career. You're trying to keep up. In my case, I was really focused on getting the job done and doing a good one. And the other thing is that companies and industries evolve around you, and you're trying to figure out where you fit into the next stage. Being strategic and having much more two-way discussion with your boss about what else could I do that would be really helpful, instead of just saying, am I doing a good job?

Yeah.

Particularly women tend to focus on excellent delivery rather than anything else.

If I can share an analogy that I do a lot with my coachees, think of yourself as a company with assets, right? And if you have this board role idea at one point in your career, think about what assets you might be missing. If it's general management, if it's a deeper knowledge of an industry, if it's AI. And then as you think strategically about that, as you said, You can take the roles or the trainings or have the conversation that will build those assets for you, and then your enterprise, Rosie Enterprise, becomes stronger and stronger as you go.

Yeah, and I've definitely started to do that since I've had a bit more flexibility in my career since you and I first met, and taking training. And as you said, that just builds up step by step, your experience, but it's difficult to do earlier in your career, but it's worth it. It would pay off. I think the second learning for me— we all know this, but networks and communities really work, and we need to invest in them. You need to find your tribe, and if it's not there, you need to try and create it around you. We've definitely done that, you and me, in our network, but also approach that community from a sense of giving as well as receiving. If you give, it'll give back to you. And that's a huge learning for me. I've had board referrals, I've made deep friendships, I've had wonderful travel experiences, learned so many new things. I think the last thing, again, probably for women and people earlier on in their career is be explicit about your goals. But if you ask people, how can I help, you'll be remembered. And so come across as trustworthy, patient, and someone who helps and is there in a two-way mindset. And again, that will help. For managers, senior leaders, how you can help build the pipeline of new board talent or new senior leadership talent is not a secret. You just got to be quite intentional about referring people and connecting them. Even just very simple things like if you notice someone is doing a good job, tell their boss. In Europe, maybe we don't have quite such a positive raise culture as they do in the US. And I always find that quite refreshing. Sometimes it's a little bit over the top, but generosity of giving positive feedback is very important. And even if it's only a small thing, it can mean something big to someone earlier in their career. Get pushing candidates forward and just saying, you should try for this. Just give people a little bit of support and it goes a long way.

You did that for me. I remember for my first board role, go for it, you know, but we need that little push. So in summary, thank you for those wisdom nuggets. You need to be intentional all along your career by thinking strategically where you want to go and be proactive about that. Find your tribe and build it if it doesn't exist, like you did with Bonnie and others. Then I really like that third one about generosity, giving to others and without thinking about it, and naturally it will come back to you. And I've lived that principle, not just for boards. I've lived it since my grandmother told me, do good, forget about it, do bad, think about it. And be persistent in your career journey, because if you build it, it will come. Rosie, thank you so much for this conversation and for the work you're doing every day. To bring more qualified, values-driven women into the boardroom and for your friendship. You've shown us how a shared experience in a classroom can become a global movement, how community commitment to each other and preparation can change careers, and how stronger, more diverse boards ultimately lead to better, more responsible business. For those listening who would like to learn more about Women Execs On Board, you can visit weob.org and you can connect with Rosie directly. And if you're looking for more support on your leadership journey, including how to grow as a board-ready leader, we'd love for you to visit us at proteus-international.com. Thank you for tuning in, and until next time, here's to creating the boardroom leadership you truly want.

Thank you, Marie.

Thanks for listening to the Proteus Leader Show. We hope you're leaving with ideas you can put use on your team, in your organization, or in your own career. To learn more about how we support true transformation through change consulting, leadership development, and executive coaching, visit us at proteus-international.com. Until next time.