In this episode of the Proteus Leader Show, host Erika Andersen interviews brand‑building expert Denise Lee Yohn about the growing culture crisis in corporate America and why aligning brand and culture is essential for creating unique, authentic organizations. Yohn identifies three inter‑related problems driving the crisis: massive employee disengagement (only 13 % engaged despite $1 billion spent on engagement initiatives), heightened concerns about sexual harassment and discrimination, and challenges around diversity and inclusion. She argues that many leaders mistakenly aim for a generic, warm, collaborative culture, when the real opportunity lies in crafting a distinctive culture that mirrors the company’s brand promise. By integrating brand identity with internal culture, firms can attract the right talent, deliver unique value, and achieve authenticity. Yohn shares a concrete example from Proteus, whose brand attributes—illuminating, strengthening, trustworthy—have become its cultural pillars. She then offers three actionable steps for leaders: (1) articulate an overarching purpose that aligns with the brand, (2) define a set of unique core values that go beyond industry‑standard “category values,” and (3) accept personal leadership responsibility for cultivating culture, making it a strategic priority rather than an HR‑only function. The conversation concludes with a plug for Yohn’s new book, Fusion: How Integrating Brand and Culture Powers the World's Greatest Companies, and a reminder to visit ProteusLeader.com for more resources.
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You're listening to the Proteus Leader Show with Erika Andersen, where you'll get practical tools and insights for leading, managing, and staying ready for the future. Erika is the founding partner of Proteus, a firm that focuses uniquely on leader readiness. A nationally known executive coach and bestselling author, you may already know her as one of the most popular leadership bloggers on Forbes.com. Ready for something you can use today? Here's Erika.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Proteus Leader Show. My guest today is Denise Lee Young, a brand-building expert, speaker, and author. Denise speaks to audiences all over the world about branding and is called upon regularly by major media outlets to weigh in on hot business topics. She's also written 2 seminal books about the power of brand. So welcome to the show, Denise.
Hi, Erika.
Hi, I'm so happy to have you here.
Me too.
So you and I have known each other as authors for a number of years. And when I found out that you were putting out a new book, which is called Fusion: How Integrating Brand and Culture Powers the World's Greatest Companies, it really sounded like a topic that would be interesting and valuable for our listeners. So let's roll up our sleeves and dig in. The first, the first question I wanted to ask you is, In the book, you talk about a culture crisis that you believe is threatening to disrupt corporate America. So I'd love it if you could give us more insight into what you're seeing in that realm.
Sure. I'll point to 3 things that I think are the trifecta of the culture crisis we're experiencing. The first is general employee disengagement. I'm thinking that most of your listeners probably have heard the statistic from Gallup that says that only 13% of employees are engaged. And what makes that number even more troubling is that apparently according to Burson by Deloitte, organizations currently spend over $1 billion annually in total to improve employee engagement. So as an industry or as a business community, we're spending $1 billion and we're only getting 13% return. So that's the first part of the crisis. The second, I think, is that all of the accusations of sexual harassment and discrimination that have risen in the last couple of years, I think that's affected every organization. Maybe not as publicly as the Weinstein Company or Uber, but I think that every organization, or I should say every thoughtful organization, is asking itself, do we have that kind of behavior or those kinds of attitudes in our organization? And if so, how do we address them? So, there's kind of a, I think, a concern that's raised because of the sexual issues. And then finally, the third part is just that I think a lot of organizations struggle with the lack of diversity in their organizations or the changing diversity and not knowing how to manage that and to work effectively through it. So, we've kind of hit this point where culture has become critically important for business leaders to address and know how to manage and lead.
That's great and very clear. Do you, as you were talking, I was thinking also generationally, because people are working so much longer, we have 4 generations now in the workplace, which also lends itself to like, wait, what are you talking about? And why do you want that to happen at work?
Right. You know, there's been a lot written about, you know, the millennials coming into the workforce and the different expectations and needs that they have. And yeah, I don't think that people have really figured it out yet.
Yeah. Okay. All right. So that's a great setup. And as I was listening to you, I was saying, yep, yep, yep. Seen that all. And the really compelling thing that you're, you know, it's not from what you're saying, it's not that companies are unaware. They're aware and they're trying to spend a lot of money, but it's not being very effective.
Right. Yeah. So I find that business leaders, I talk to business leaders around the world and I find that either they don't know how to cultivate a healthy and vital culture or they're going about it the wrong way.
Right. Okay. And we'll talk, as my listeners know, we always try and be practical. We'll talk about some practical things later. But what I'd love to focus on now is, you know, in your book and even in the title of the book, you make this connection between brand and culture, which I think is really fascinating. So I'd love to hear more about why you feel that integrating brand and culture is so important.
I would say the number one answer is uniqueness. Okay, and let me back up and explain that I think that there's a kind of a myth or common misperception out there about corporate culture that as a leader you need to cultivate kind of a warm, benevolent, supporting, collaborative culture in your organization.
Mm-hmm.
And certainly, you know, there's a baseline of that that must exist at every organization, but beyond that, I think there's a real opportunity for leaders to create a unique culture, not only so that you are attracting the right employees and ultimately the right customers by operating your business in a unique way. But more importantly, that you equip and empower, engage and excite your employees to produce the unique results that your business requires. You know, just as you wouldn't try to imitate someone else's brand, it's kind of almost ridiculous for you to think about imitating someone else's culture in the sense that there are unique values, there are unique attributes, unique ways of working that will set you apart and set you on the track to produce the results you want. And the way to do that is to look at your brand identity and say, what do we want to be known for outside? Or what are we known for to our customers and other external stakeholders? And how do we live that out authentically inside our organizations so that there isn't a gap between what we say we do or say who we are and who Who we actually are and what we actually do. So there is an opportunity to become, I think, much more— to have more authenticity and integrity. But ultimately, it is the uniqueness that you'll get by integrating and aligning your brand and culture, which I think is what the world's greatest companies have figured out how to do.
That's great. So both unique and powerful, which as you're speaking, I can— well, I want to, if you don't mind, I want to give an example. Our little company Proteus is so aligned with what you're saying. And I want to give us as an example, but not weakness, but kind of power that if you are very clear about who you are, both as a brand and as a culture, then it's easier to attract people for whom that really resonates and who will therefore almost certainly be a good fit with both your culture and your brand.
Right. And, you know, companies spend so much money or waste, I should say, so much money on turnover, right? Figuring out after the fact that, oh, this person that you thought was a fit really wasn't. And to your point, if you are clear upfront about what you value as an organization, what it's like to work in the organization, what results you're expecting from your people, then you automatically attract people who that really resonates for.
Yeah. So, I'll give you my little Proteus example. Almost 17 years ago when my business partner, Jeff, and I were first partners, we decided that we really wanted to clarify our brand attributes. You want to interact with— I mean, you know, many times more than I do about grandnephews. And so the 3 that we came up with were illuminating, strengthening, and trustworthy. Those were the experiences that we wanted clients to have in dealing with us. Clarify that they would, they would feel strengthened rather than overrelying on our strength, and that they would trust themselves and us. So as we lived with those over the next year or 2, we realized We also wanted those to be our cultural attributes, that that's how we would interact with each other, that any conversation we had with a client or with a colleague should be in some measure illuminating, strengthening, and trustworthy. And so we've lived those together for 15 years now. And I, I absolutely see the power of what you're saying. And in our consulting space, pretty unique. Am I lined up? Is this what you're talking about?
Absolutely. And I love that you shared that, Erika, not only because it's a great example and particularly this value of illuminating. I mean, gosh, I mean, I want to dig into that and learn more about that. But I mean, just, they're great values. But I would say that you sharing also makes the point that this is not something that large, you know, consumer-oriented companies do and everyone else does something differently, right?
Right.
But that every organization, regardless of size, scope, type, Longevity, that it can benefit from this alignment of brand and culture. So, thank you so much for sharing that. That's great.
Oh, you're welcome. I'm glad it helped prove your point. And it leads us right into my third question, which is I really want to offer our listeners some practical steps that they can start taking right now. And to your point, it's not, you know, you don't have to be working at some big company. It can be any company. So, steps that they can take right now. Start right now to start building a healthier, more effective culture in their company. So what are some things you might suggest?
Okay. So again, I'll do the 3 things. Okay. The first is I would say start laying the foundation with articulating an overarching purpose for your organization. Now, I will say that most organizations I think are pretty good about having some sort of mission statement, right? But what I found is that oftentimes that mission statement is very disconnected or unrelated to their brand identity or their aspired brand identity. So they might say their mission statement is to create value for our shareholders, customers, and employees, or something like that. But then their brand is very specific about the kind of value that they're creating or the kind of experience that they're creating. And I think that what happens is when you have disconnected statements like that, your employees at best are confused about, okay, how do these 2 things relate? And at worst, they can often end up working at cross purposes.
Yeah.
Think about companies that prioritize as a business profitability or efficiency, but then on the flip side, they say that they want their brand to be known for great customer service and being really generous with their actions. And so, employees are like, wait a minute. I'm not sure what we're trying to do here. So, I think having an overarching purpose, one thing that you are aspiring to, is critically important for every organization. So, that's number one.
Yeah, overarching purpose, it sounds like that aligns with your brand.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So, it really takes into account what value you're trying to create out in the marketplace out there. So, it's not something, again, that's kind of irrelevant to that or off to the side from that.
Yeah.
So then number 2, kind of along those same lines, is to articulate one set of core values. And again, I don't think the idea of having core values is new to any business leader. What I find though is that again, the opportunity is to identify the unique values that distinguish your organization. And I differentiate between category values and core values. Category values are things that every organization in your industry or in your business needs to ascribe to. I always say that fast food restaurants need to value being fast, friendly, clean, and good value. So, if you were to say those were your core values, you're not really saying anything about your organization and the unique role that you want to play in the world.
Right.
Whereas, if you identify core values that are unique and really do kind of say, this is how we're going to operate differently. And that's what I love about your your values, illuminating, strengthening. I mean, those are things that, that, that I don't hear from other consulting firms. And so that really helps me. It intrigues me. And I'm sure as I learn more about what you do to, to, to live out those values, that would help me understand why I need to work with you specifically. And, you know, what differentiates you. So having unique core values that then you live out is the second thing. And then the third thing I would say is understand that cultivating culture is a leadership responsibility. It's a strategic management responsibility in the sense that it's not something that you can delegate to HR or kind of think that, oh, it just kind of happens by itself. But as a leader, you need to actively, proactively cultivate your culture, define what you want your culture to be like. Start with your purpose and values, but then really think through, okay, what is the employee experience that we want to create? And how do we get people engaged in that? And how do we reinforce that in everything we do? So, and then of course, you know, you might have your partners or your functional leaders actually implement some of the initiatives or programs that need to happen. But if you don't own it at the top of your organization, It's not going to be a priority. And so, accepting the leadership responsibility for cultivating your culture is the third thing I would say is super important.
Those are great, really good things that people can start thinking about and doing just today. So, I really appreciate this. So, it seems so timely, everything you're saying. And listeners, if you're interested in finding out more, Fusion: How Integrating Brand and Culture Powers the World's Greatest Companies is now available on Amazon and in bookstores. I'm looking forward to reading it. And for additional resources, you can also go to ProteusLeader.com and select the company culture topic. So thank you so much, Denise, and thank you everyone for listening. And until next time, here's to creating the life you truly want.
Thanks, Erika.
We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business, and the life you want. For more insights and tools for leadership and management, join us at ProteusLeader.com. Have an excellent day, and thanks for listening.
