In this episode of the Proteus Leader Show, host Erika Andersen interviews Laird MacLean, head of the change practice at Proteus, about why leaders must be "change‑capable"—able to navigate change themselves and help their people do the same. They explain that the value of any change is only realized when it is adopted, so leaders need a post‑announcement plan that includes measurement, reinforcement, and follow‑through. They discuss the psychological side of change, emphasizing the change curve and the need for leaders to give employees time to process endings, learn new ways, and accept the future vision. By communicating empathetically and supporting people through disruption, leaders can shorten the painful period of change. The conversation then turns to the downsides of poor change leadership: missed opportunities, wasted investment, lowered morale, and loss of employee trust that makes future changes harder. Practical advice follows: (1) pick the right change—one that addresses a real problem or opportunity; (2) engage the stakeholders who feel the pain or see the opportunity from the start; (3) consider feasibility, impact, and timeliness, especially when juggling multiple changes; (4) be an effective communicator—clear, frequent, WIIFM messaging, and listen to feedback. The episode closes with a plug for Proteus’s services and Andersen’s upcoming book, Change from the Inside Out.
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You're listening to the Proteus Leader Show with Erika Andersen, where you'll get practical tools and insights for leading, managing, and staying ready for the future. Erika is the founding partner of Proteus, a firm that focuses uniquely on leader readiness. A nationally known executive coach and bestselling author, you may already know her as one of the most popular leadership bloggers on Forbes.com. Ready for something you can use today? Here's Erika.
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Proteus Leader Show. My guest today is Laird MacLean, my partner at Proteus and the head of our change practice. Laird partners with organizations to catalyze positive change using tools, insights, and approaches he's developed over decades. I've seen how Laird's ability to listen deeply and build trust while distilling complex situations down to a few key challenges makes him a hugely valuable partner, both within Proteus and with his clients. So hey, Laird, welcome to the show.
Erika, it's a pleasure to be here.
I'm so glad to have you here. But as we're focusing on our change practice more than ever, because the need is so great among all of our clients, and also because our Change from the Inside Out book is coming out soon, I thought this would be a great time to get your sense of why it's so important for leaders to be what we call change-capable, that is good at moving through change and helping their people move through change. So you up for having me pick your brain about that?
Yeah, you're absolutely right, Erika. It's— change is ever-present. And so looking forward to having the conversation today.
Okay, great. So let's just dive in. So based on your experience in this era we're in of, as you say, nonstop change, What are the biggest benefits to leaders of being able to move through change well?
Well, I think I'll focus on 2 things. The first one is I always talk to leaders about that the value of change isn't realized until it's adopted. When leaders are planning change, they talk about the when we're going to announce it, how we're going to announce it, train our employees, and then we're done, and employees will automatically adopt the change and, you know, we're on to the next thing. It's really important to have a plan post-announcement and implementation of the change to ensure that the change actually gets adopted. And you can do that through things like measurement and reinforcement, etc., and we can put a plan in place to do so. So that's the first thing is, you know, making sure that you are diligent about follow-through And making sure the change is adopted.
How can they— this is sort of— think of this as question 1B. What are the benefits when leaders are good at helping people go through their own psychological changes they have to go through in order to make change?
Yeah, you know, we often talk about the change curve and making sure that people have the opportunity to process what the change is about, get a vision for how it's going to look in the future. And sometimes what happens is leaders have been talking about it for so long, they forget the fact that employees are maybe hearing it for the first time and also need the same, same time to process the change and go through their own, you know, endings, as we talk about, in terms of kind of leaving the past behind.
Yeah.
Understanding the new way of doing things. Learning how to do the new things and accepting it as the new way that they can be successful going forward.
When leaders can have that empathy in a way and help people through that shift, through the change arc, then that's a huge benefit to the organization, I would think.
Absolutely. That leads to my second piece with regard to the benefit, and that is that change is often disruptive. And so if they— if leaders can become good at change, they can either lessen the impact that the negative impact that that change has by being communicative, by helping support people through the change process, and then kind of lessen the duration of that disruption.
Yes.
So it's important to acknowledge the disruption and then help people work through it.
That's great. So faster and less painful, basically.
Exactly.
Yeah. So then let's look at the dark side. You know, what are some of the problems that you see in organizations and, and for the leaders themselves as a result of leaders being poor at making change?
Well, the first thing is you're making a change for a reason. Either it's an opportunity you're trying to capitalize upon or a problem you're trying to solve that's getting in the way of doing things and accomplishing your goals. And so if you're not good at you know, moving through the change process, including the adoption piece of things, then you're either going to miss the opportunity, or— and so that the investment in that change will, will be wasted, or the problem will continue. And you'll continue to be frustrated, morale can take a dip. And so it's really important that you do it well, to really, you know, realize those opportunities that you're going after.
Oh, that's great. Yeah, I think sometimes we don't think about that, that Hopefully you're making a change to solve a problem or to make something work better or enable the organization to do something it hasn't yet been able to do. And if the change isn't made well, then all of those benefits won't happen.
Yeah, and that's exactly right. And maybe the more insidious effect is that if you do change poorly, the next time you want to make a change, you've lost the confidence of your employees.
Yes.
And so, you know, we talk about the flavor of the month and people being skeptical of what management or leadership is trying to do. And And, and, you know, people don't have to change. The reason they do it is because they're, they're understanding what the benefit is, both to the organization and to themselves. And part of that has to do with the trust and the faith that they place in leadership. Yeah. So if leaders have not done well by them in the past with regard to change, it's just gonna be that much harder to do it in the future.
Oh man, that's a great point.
I—
you and I, everyone has seen organizations where when a change is proposed, people who have been, you know, sort of dropped on their head by changes in the past just kind of step back and say, yeah, well, we'll just wait for this to—
Yeah, you get the eye roll.
Blow by. Yeah, exactly.
Here we go again.
Here we go again. Yeah, yes, exactly. And you don't— you definitely don't want that lack of credibility to get in the way of making needed change. Yeah, that's helpful. So, so we always promise our listeners practical takeaways, right? So Based on your experience, what would you encourage leaders to do to help themselves to become more change capable?
Yeah, I mean, we've touched on a couple of these already. The first thing is really, I always say, pick the right change. And it's maybe a flippant way of saying, you know, make sure that the change you're going after is addressing a real important problem or opportunity that you're acknowledging. And the best way to kind of set the table for adoption down the road is to engage the stakeholders who are feeling that pain or who see that opportunity in helping them define the change. So it's not just kind of sitting in a back room saying, here's what we need to do, let's announce it. It's really engaging the people who you're going to need to help you implement the change, who understand the challenges that it's going to take to implement the change. So you can, right from the start, begin to define the change in such a way that it's going to be more easily adopted and ultimately then help you again, capitalize on your opportunity or address the problem that's being experienced.
I love both those suggestions. And they're both very practical. So the first one is, if, if, if you have power and influence on this, make sure that the changes are necessary and will most likely be beneficial. Because sometimes people get kind of change mad, and they just like, let's change everything. It's like, no, change is hard. So let's make sure that the things we're changing are the, are the right things and the necessary things.
An executive once I worked with talked about the most difficult thing he does every day is decide what not to do.
Yes.
So you really have to prioritize what's most important because there's only so much change capacity within an organization, even if you are change capable. And so it's really important to go after those most important things.
Yes. And to think— and to just add to that, and I talked about this some in the book, as you know, that You know, when you're thinking about change, you think about feasibility, impact, and timeliness. And then if you're thinking about more than one change at once, as we so often are, think about the feasibility, impact, and timeliness of all of them together. Because one change might be feasible, but then when you are doing 2 other major changes at the same time, then feasibility just goes out the window. So you really have to think well and holistically about the impact and the feasibility of the changes you're making.
And furthermore, so I just had a call this morning with a client where they're talking about making an organizational design change at the same time as they're going to change process.
Yeah.
And so as we talk to the employees about the change, we're not talking about them as 2 separate things. It's— we make the connection about how this one change and the 2 aspects of it is going to really benefit the organization and those who will be put into the roles that are new.
Oh, I love that. And that hooks back to the second thing you were saying before about make sure that insofar as possible, you, you loop in the people affected and the stakeholders. Sometimes there are people who are strong stakeholders who aren't directly affected, but they can really either get in the way of or help the change. And the more you make those people a part of the process, the easier it is for you as the maker of change both to understand what needs to change, but also to help— that helps overcome their hesitation when they see, oh yes, you're asking my point of view. I've— okay, this is starting to feel easier. This is starting to feel more rewarding. This is starting to feel more normal, right?
That's exactly right. And, and so that kind of leads to the second practical takeaway, and that is, you know, really focus on being an effective communicator. So once the change is defined with the stakeholders, Really be clear about what the messaging has to be to help people understand what is expected of them, what the benefits are going to be to them, the whole what's in it for me, and do it frequently because sometimes people need to hear a message more than once. Sometimes people don't pay attention until right before the change is about to be made because they have so many other things going on. And so if you can be an effective communicator, including listening to the feedback from your employees as you go along, you're just much better set up to make the choice.
Yes. Oh, we, I know we could talk for hours longer, but we always promise our listeners we'll keep it short and sweet. So thank you so much, Laird. I really appreciate you coming and talking to me.
Well, it's been a pleasure, Erika. Thank you for having me on.
Well, I love having you as my partner and I love being able to share your wisdom with our listeners and listeners. If you'd like to find out more about how Proteus supports clients to change, just go to proteusleader.com and choose the leading change topic. And look for my latest book, Change from the Inside Out, coming in October on Amazon and at booksellers everywhere. So thank you for listening. And until next time, here's to creating the life you truly want.
We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business, and the life you want. For more insights and tools for leadership and management, join us at proudestleader.com. Have an excellent day. And thanks for listening.
