In this episode of the Proteus Leader Show, host Erika Andersen interviews her colleague Tessa Tubbs about the often‑overlooked human side of organizational change, especially in the context of the COVID‑19 pandemic. They discuss how the pandemic forced rapid, unplanned shifts to remote, hybrid, or in‑person work and why leaders must consider employees’ personal challenges—childcare, health concerns, vaccine attitudes—when designing change initiatives. The conversation highlights generational differences in how workers respond to change: older generations (Boomers, Gen X) tend to stay but disengage, while Millennials and Gen Z are more likely to leave if they feel unsupported. This creates a "war for talent" where a strong employee experience becomes a competitive differentiator. Tessa outlines five practical steps for leaders to become more change‑ready: (1) scan external and internal trends and stay informed; (2) assess likely impacts on people’s lives and careers; (3) build change‑readiness capabilities; (4) expand personal and professional networks to fill skill gaps; and (5) foster safe community spaces where employees can share feelings and mourn losses associated with change. Throughout, they stress that change is continuous, that leaders must model change fluency, and that leveraging networks and community support helps both individuals and organizations navigate transformation. The episode concludes with a call to explore Proteus’s Change from the Inside Out resources and Andersen’s book on the same topic.
Chapters
You're listening to the Proteus Leader Show with Erika Andersen, where you'll get practical tools and insights for leading, managing, and staying ready for the future. Erika is the founding partner of Proteus, a firm that focuses uniquely on leader readiness. A nationally known executive coach and bestselling author, you may already know her as one of the most popular leadership bloggers on Forbes.com. Ready for something you can use today? Here's Erika.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Proteus Leader Show. My guest today is Tessa Tubbs, my colleague at Proteus and an experienced coach, facilitator, and consultant. She works with leaders to help them realize their potential, and she helps them guide their organizations through changes large and small. Tessa's combination of balanced assessment, Deep insight and real compassion creates a powerful basis for growth. Hi, Tessa, welcome to the show.
Hi, Erika, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to partner with you and your listeners today.
Yes, me too. I'm, you know, I, I know that you've had so much experience with change over the years, and as we focus, we at Proteus focus more on our change practice than ever because, you know, there's so much need. And also our Change from the Inside Out book is just I just thought this would be a great time for us to talk about the people aspects of change, that part of change that's so often overlooked and under-resourced when organizations make big transformations. So we talk about at Proteus a lot attending to the human side of change. Can you share with us, based on your experience, why this is so important?
I, I think this is such a timely question. When we look out across our organization, the fact that there's a global pandemic afoot that has, in many cases, really disrupted the workforce and the traditional way of doing work. So, in essence, every industry, every organization, every geography is going through really significant, unplanned, unanticipated change.
Right.
And as we navigate through this, Understanding how do we figure out what back to work means? Are we going to be remote forever? Will we be hybrid? Will we return to the way things were? The impact that has on the workforce, the people, becomes really important to to pay attention to. That it's not just about an organization regaining footing or an organization being able to open its doors. Doors again or to gain back its market position or expand because many organizations have thrived during the pandemic as well to expand their market position, but it's not doing that in isolation, but at the same time understanding the individuals, the workers, there are implications to them as well, whether it's childcare challenges, whether it's health concerns, whether it's are we safe enough to return, whether it's I have immune-compromised people in my home, or folks who aren't eligible for the vaccine in my home, or wherever you stand on the vaccine debate. The point is those individuals are trying to make sense out of what works for them, as well as organizations trying to make sense of what works for their entity. And so it's when we look at both sides together, I think we can win and get to the best solutions. It's when we look at them exclusive of the other, That we run into challenges and aren't able to realize the fullness of the transformation or change that we're after.
That, that's such a marvelous example. I— every single client I've talked to is wrestling with what's the new, what's it going to look like, what does hybrid mean for us. And, and I've noticed that clients where the leaders are, oh, to your point, looking at them exclusively, are kind of over-focusing on this is what's best for the business, this is what we think is going to work, are— they're losing people. They're losing great people. And the organizations are doing exactly what you're saying, saying this is both a business change and a change that we need our people to come with us. We have to listen to them. We have to accommodate them to whatever extent is reasonable, that we have to look at the kind of nuts and bolts business side and the people side together, or we're going to be in big trouble. They're doing so much better, and they're keeping good people. And those people are productive and committed and all those things. that you want to have happen. That's just a great example. What have you seen? I mean, I told you some of the problems I see, but what problems do you see that arise in organizations around this change or around any change when people aren't helped to move through that change?
Yeah, that's a great question. And I would say the 2 things I see are people either vote with their feet, they quit, they leave, or they vote with their hands, they stay, but they quit, and they don't engage, they're not as productive, they, they aren't really working towards the mission. And I've seen that response vary depending on the generation that we're talking to. And so, my Generation X and Boomers, when we are resistant to change, or we don't feel supported in the change process, or our our personal needs are represented in the change, we tend to stay and quit. Whereas what I see with the millennials and Gen Z is less of a willingness to stay and quit, much more willingness to walk, to walk, to vote with their feet. And so I think it really requires organizations to step back and think about the war for talent. There are so many of us looking for some of the same skills and abilities in the workforce. We are competing for a lot of the same talent in many industries and marketplaces. And so it really becomes about how do we differentiate ourselves? And I think that differentiation is when we bring in that human factor. Yes, we need to differentiate ourselves in the marketplace. Yes, we need to have a wonderful customer experience to get that customer loyalty, to provide value. But we also need to make sure we're generating and creating a wonderful employee or associate experience.
Yes.
Because we want that associate who's doing the work to support the customer that is driving the market position You want that whole process to work. And so I think it behooves organizations and leaders to make sure we're balancing out the equation. We're looking at the market, we're looking at customers, and we're also looking at our workforce.
That's perfectly stated, I think. And as I'm listening to you, one of the things that I've been reading about recently is that the boomers and the Xers, we can easily forget that the millennials are now the largest generation in the workforce. They're larger than any other generation, and they're increasingly moving up into senior management positions. They're the oldest— I met a woman yesterday, a client, who laughingly said she's the oldest living millennial. You know, she just turned 41. And, you know, so there are people in the height of their career. They're sort of 25 to 40, and they're the people you want. They're often wonderful, and they have the kind of new skills that us older people sometimes don't have, a lot of technological skills. And you're right, they will vote with their feet. They have options. And so I think it's critical for leaders to recognize that. So talking about leaders, as leaders are— I think a lot of our listeners are leaders, and they're listening to us going, oh my gosh, what am I supposed to do about this? And I said this to you, I Feel like it's like in the airplanes when they say put on your own mask before attempting to help others. You know, what, what we've seen is that leaders who themselves are more change-capable and more comfortable with change and more fluent with change are better able to help their people through change, more likely to think about it and better able to do it. So what practical advice would you give to leaders to make themselves more change-capable, more comfortable and fluent with change?
I think that there are some critical steps leaders can take, as well as teaching their associates and employees to do. One is being able to explore future trends that will impact their organization internally and externally. And when I think about those future trends, it makes me wonder, as leaders, where are they getting their information from about What's changing in the workplace? Who's on their computer page or their mobile phone or their tablets or their apps? What are they consuming? What news are they taking in and why? How does that connect to work-related ideas and information? What's happening from a regulatory standpoint within their industry? What's going on inside of their organization? So it's it's just really being able to step back and look at global trends and realities. It's national policy. season change, it's professional evolution and implication. So how are they taking in information? Because sometimes the resistance to change is, I didn't see it coming.
Yeah.
And often I didn't see it coming because I wasn't looking.
Yeah.
I didn't even have it on my radar. I wasn't— my antenna wasn't up. I wasn't attuned to what was happening in my outside world as well as what's happening in my inside world. So I think that's step one for me.
I want to respond to that. I love that advice, and I wouldn't have thought of it. I mean, one of the things we know is that people will change when they see change as being more normal. And that's what you're saying. If people put themselves in the flow of information about all the things that are changing, that change is pretty continuous in their industry, in the world, nationally, it doesn't— it's not going to seem so weird to them. It's going to be like, oh, yes, things are changing. I need to change. That's great advice. Yeah, thanks. What else?
Absolutely. The second thing I would say is, it piggybacks on what you've just talked about. It's then being able to think about what's the likely impact, understanding that change on their lives, their careers, their choices. And sometimes that allows people to even get in front of change. It allows people to begin making different choices at home or different choices around reskilling and upskilling, or different choices in which department in the organization you might pursue your next opportunity because you're aware of those trends, those cultural trends, those social trends, those global trends, etc. So it's really understanding the impact of the change, what's on the horizon.
Yes.
And then the The third piece of this is building the capability. You just referenced it earlier where you said, you know, sometimes that younger generation, the Gen Z and the millennials, have technical skills that Gen X and the boomers don't have. And so right there alone, what are the new capabilities? How do you stay fresh? How do you stay competitive? And one of those capabilities is how do you be change ready? Right. So how do you build your change readiness skills and abilities? Because what is guaranteed is there will be more change.
Yes.
And so what, what are we doing to keep that fresh? And then the last thing I would say is to extend their network. How do you extend your network to support you? We're not intended to do these things by ourselves. There are, there are There are abilities and traits and interests that others have that I will never have, but I can glean and I can learn from them, just as hopefully they can glean and they can learn from me. And so how do you expand your network to help you fill in these gaps? And maybe it's, it's through your network that you stay connected to the trends. Maybe it's through your network that you understand what new skills are on the horizon, how to have a conversation with your employees, how to help your employees do the same thing.
Yes.
It's not always something we have to solve from inside of ourselves, but sometimes it's solved through the partnerships, the networks, the communities that we're connected to in order to bring solutions to the needs of the situation.
Oh, I love that. And as I— as you're talking, I'm thinking those connections with people not only who have new skills that will be necessary in new contexts, like technological skills or process skills, but also to your point, actual change skills that we probably all have friends who are better than we are at helping other people through change and helping them make the mindset shifts and helping them understand the impacts. That's great. Yes, it does take a village. So I love that.
Just one more point. You mentioned earlier about the journey. I know you cover this in your book about how to normalize change. How do we take the, what makes it uncomfortable and weird that drives that resistance to change. I think one of the things, even as leaders, we can benefit from is just having safe community where we can talk about how it feels to go through the change. Because sometimes we can, you know, we can become isolated and think, well, I'm the only one feeling this. This is happening to me and me alone.
Yes.
When in fact it's not, right? And, but I don't know that until I start talking to other people. I don't know that until I either make myself vulnerable or I build that that social capital with others, that we can begin to unpack the mourning of the loss. I mean, I know as a Gen X, for me personally, thinking about how important technical skills are becoming in the workplace, that's not my strong suit. And so, just stepping back to say, oh, suddenly I'm more likely to be passed over for opportunities because of what's needed. And I don't bring the same skill and capabilities. I don't compete in the same way.
I was—
Watching a documentary about a football player, and he said, you know, at 39, he's like, the clock is always ticking, right? And, you know, we know it's a lot much younger in that space, but his point resonated with me is he's going, I'm aware at some point I'm going to become obsolete. At some point I won't be as relevant. But he had a community of people that he engaged with and was already planning for what's next. So that's also sometimes part of it. It's, yes, how do we stay connected to build, to go on to the next thing, to innovate and create? But sometimes it's also how do we stay connected to just mourn our losses, to acknowledge the shift and the changes that we may be going through in order to get to the new normal, if that makes sense.
Oh, I love that. Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right. I talk about this in the book. We're wired for thousands of years to see change as a threat. and a danger. And so it's an— it's a legitimate, common response. And just to have people to talk to about that, to help you through that is— I totally agree. Oh, wow. Thank you so much, Tessa. This is— we can clearly talk for a couple of hours about this, but we always promise our listeners this will be short and sweet. So thank you so much. And listeners, if you'd like to find out more about how Proteus supports clients through change, you could just go to ProteusLeader.com and choose the Change from the inside-out topic. And look for my latest book, Change from the Inside Out, on Amazon and at booksellers everywhere. So thanks again, Tessa. Thank you for listening. And until next time, here's to creating the life you truly want.
We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business, and the life you want. For more insights and tools for leadership and management, join us at prettiestleader.com. Have an excellent day, and thanks for listening.
