#76: Making a Career Transition

You're listening to the Proteus Leader Show with Erika Andersen, where you'll get practical tools and insights for leading and managing and staying ready for the future. Erika is the founding partner of Proteus, a firm that focuses uniquely on leader readiness. A nationally known executive coach and bestselling author, you may already know her as one of the most popular leadership bloggers on Forbes.com. Ready for something you can use today? Here's Erika.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Proteus Leader Show. My guest today is Marie Olive, my colleague as the director of our transformation practice at Proteus and a senior advisor for us. Marie's unique background spanning engineering, CFO and audit, CEO and board member roles, and her extensive experience in global industrial and media markets allows her to understand deeply how businesses work in this digital age. Marie began her career at McKinsey and Company, then joined General Electric, where she was fast-tracked through a variety of roles all over the world. She then moved to NBCUniversal, where she ultimately became divisional CEO of their international networks. As a senior advisor for Proteus, Marie supports clients in clarifying their personal or organizational vision and strategy, identifying obstacles, and inspiring them to discover new ways to achieve success. So welcome to the show, Marie.

Thank you for having me, Erika. I'm delighted to be here.

Oh, I'm so happy to have you. You know, you, you and I have had so many wonderful conversations over the years, and I thought it'd be especially helpful to our listeners to hear about your experience and insight in the realm of career transition, especially given that so many people have been rethinking their careers over the past couple of years.

Yes, COVID has been a huge factor for that. I've seen the increase in demand and change, and I've changed career myself a few times.

Yeah, you also speak from your personal experience. All right, great. So let's get started. So what have you seen as key indicators that a career transition might be beneficial or even necessary for someone?

I can think of few indicators, both internal and external. So I'll talk about the first 3, which, you know, I consider from data from the inside.

Yeah.

So first, if you find yourself constantly dreading going to work or feeling unfulfilled in your current role, you know, that's one indicator. Second, along the same lines, if you feel constantly stressed, exhausted, or overwhelmed, you know, by the job, it could be a sign of burnout and you need to watch out.

Yeah.

And then third, if your personal goals have changed and your current job no longer aligns, you know, with your values and aspirations, maybe the picture of success that you have for yourself, then it might be time to consider career transitions. So those criteria are more from the inside.

Yeah, yeah.

But then, you know, there are a number of external factors, and we mentioned COVID earlier, but it could be, you know, external considerations such as changes in the industry, job market, technology. You know, for example, right now the financial services industry is under pressure, same for the tech industry. And so it's important to stay current and relevant in your industry, and sometimes that means learning new skills or making a shift. Into a different field.

I mean, a shift. Yeah. I love—

I—

those are all so practical and so good. And I love the internal ones because what it— what they imply to me is that you're saying that somebody has to be very conscious, mindful, and intentional about their own experience. I think sometimes people get just kind of— they get— they go on automatic and they start like, I've been at the job for 8 years and I just go every day and they don't notice it's gotten a lot more stressful or they've gotten more unhappy or Or they, they're not thinking clearly about how their goals have changed, but they know that something's not right. So, so what you're encouraging people to do, it sounds like, is just be more conscious, just spend some time thinking about how is this job actually working for you now.

Yes, reflecting and kind of knowing yourself. And, and if you see there is this fear of change that is also not helpful in those moments.

Yes. Yeah, because even when people— I mean, I'm sure you've talked to people that you coach too, but I've talked to people who they're Just when you talk to them, you realize they're just deeply unhappy in their jobs. They're not loving it. They, as you say, they're stressed every day, but they just kind of don't want to think about that because it would imply having to change, having to do something different. Okay, so how do people tend to do transitions badly? That is, you know, kind of what are the pitfalls, the minefields to avoid?

No, I love that question because to think about pitfalls will help us to think about, you know, what to do.

Yeah.

So I would say pitfall number 1, not knowing yourself and the environment. You know, back to what we said, it's kind of not listening to that internal voice. And often I tell my coaches to think about themselves as an enterprise. What assets do they have? You know, what assets are they missing? What is their risk profile? What is their value proposition or competitive advantage, right? And so this is important to spend that time As we said earlier, reflecting on, you know, where you start from.

The, the pitfall is just when you don't have that self-knowledge, really, you can stumble in all kinds of ways. You can go for something that doesn't suit you. You can not sort of present and market yourself properly, all that stuff, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's kind of not knowing where you start. And then the pitfall too that I see is not building a clear vision. Right? What does success look like for you?

Yes.

And this is where I find, you know, the Being Strategic book you wrote is so helpful, not just for companies, but also for individuals as they're trying to build a personal vision and strategy. I definitely used it myself when I wanted to transition from being an executive at NBCUniversal to building a portfolio career, you know, a job that wasn't really written, and I kind of thought about what do I want to do in that new career, what am I missing, and working on that transition. So pitfall number 2 is when people want to change but they don't take the time to think about, you know, what their success will look like for them.

Yeah, that's a great insight, and I think just listening to you, it's especially important in situations where, as you're describing, where you're going from a kind of standard job, but what you really want is to put something together that's unique to you. If it's not, you know, kind of all written down already, then you have to get clear what it is, right?

Indeed, indeed.

Right.

And then once you have that set up, then it's if you don't do enough research and planning. Yeah, right. Because that takes work to go from one point to the other. So often people, and that's my pitfall 4, underestimate the learning curve. It may take time and effort to become proficient in the new role. In the example I gave, you know, for my transition, I undertook coach training, also corporate director training, because I felt, you know, I want to be a recognized, skillful coach and independent director. I want to build that confidence.

Yeah.

And that's kind of the internal need, but then also building the credibility when you make those transitions. So those 2 pitfalls are very important. The one around the planning, the work, and not underestimating the learning curve.

Yeah, and I really like that, underestimating the learning curve, because there are 2, at least 2, there's probably a million, but at least 2 aspects of it is One, underestimating or just misestimating how different where you want to go is from where you are now. So underestimating or misestimating the distance and then not being clear about the literal learning curve, what you are going to have to learn to make— to bridge that gap. I think both of those things are problematic. Yeah, that's great. That's really helpful. Yes.

With my coaches, we spend time on that to identify the potential obstacles they could face and the skill gap that we talked about is a common one, right? But there might be others, and one of them, and that's pitfall 5, is the network, right? So when you underestimate the importance of networking, because your professional network can be a valuable resource during a career transition, but what I've often, you know, seen with my coachees is that your immediate network might not be the one the most useful when you do those transitions, because you're looking to transition to a new career, maybe new industry. So you need to kind of grow that network.

Yes.

And again, there's a lot of analysis and kind of thinking that has to go into that.

Yeah. And how— I imagine, how is your, is your current network connected to that? Are there— do they have connections to people who would be better in your— for your new network?

Indeed.

Yeah. Okay, that's great. Okay, so we almost always promise practical takeaways. And so what if somebody is making a career transition right now? What are some practical steps that you would encourage them to take sort of today? How can they start?

No, thank you for that, because I love finishing with some practical advice, and, and they really— those steps mitigate the risks we just mentioned, right? So number one is very clear, is know yourself. Reflect on your strengths, interests, values. I'm going to share with you a tool that I absolutely love. It's called the Ikigai framework, and it's a Japanese concept that translates to a reason for being. And it's a simple framework that I, you know, use with my coaches to help them think about, you know, what they're good at, what they love, you know, what they can be, what does the world need, and what can they be paid for. Because when they kind of look at those 4 circles, the intersection of that is a sweet spot where they can go. So, so it's a wonderful exercise. And usually when people have an ikigai, they live a more fulfilling and purposeful life. So that's Love that. Tip number 1.

Yeah, okay. What they love, what they're good at, what the world needs, and what they can make a living doing. Yes. Yeah, that's great. Perfect. I love it.

And second, we talked about it, to build your vision, right? So to really— and, and as you know, we talked about for being strategic, everybody has that visionary skill.

Yeah.

So you need to be able to tap into that And imagine, you know, a job kind of yourself day to day enjoying what you do. What does it mean? What does it look like? And doesn't need to be exactly maybe a job title, but identify the career elements, you know, that are most important to you. So that's number 2, I think. Yeah.

Yep.

Then we talked about the importance of having, you know, that planning. So, so once you kind of have some ideas about what's important to you, then identify those career paths. You know, do some research, networking, experiments. You know, sometimes some of my coaches do some not-for-profit work or part-time jobs, you know, like because we might have an image of, you know, oh, this is a great job. But when you actually try it, it's not exactly what you imagined.

Yeah.

So I think it's, it's develop that kind of plan and include experiments that would help you validate Oh, I love that, like doing flight simulations to see if you're really a pilot. Because it's a big decision, right? And sometimes people haven't done those extra steps and then, you know, it's too big of a risk. And yes, you don't want to fail in that transition. And this is why, you know, kind of the other element I would recommend is to build that network and get support, right?

Yeah.

So, so important to surround yourself, you know, with the right people that would help you be thought partners. And, you know, it could be a coach, it could be a mentor, it could be family, but also people in that network maybe that you need to create that will know more about, you know, the profession you want to do.

Yeah.

So those are key elements, and I would say then we shouldn't forget about tactical things nowadays, which is to build your brand on all social media, including LinkedIn, you know, thinking about your resume, cover letter, you know, and also don't forget to tell your network what you're looking for.

Yeah.

Because you'll be surprised how helpful people are and, you know, how many ideas they might have about how you can make that transition.

Yeah.

And in terms of the mindset, I think it's probably the most important is to have that growth mindset.

Yes.

And to know that it takes time and effort and you need to really be persistent and patient and be ready to learn new skills. Be bad first, as you say so well in your book. But I would say don't get discouraged by the setbacks and rejections and stay committed to your goals.

Yeah. Oh, thank you, Marie. I think this will be so helpful, such useful advice for people who are making a transition or even contemplating making a transition, a way to kind of get into it. So thank you so much. This is great.

You're welcome. Thank you for having me again.

Oh, of course. And listeners, if you'd like to find out more ways in which Proteus supports leaders to create their best career, You can just go to ProteusLeader.com, click on Topics, and choose Managing Your Career. So thank you for listening, and until next time, here's to creating the life you truly want.

We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business, and the life you want. For more insights and tools for leadership and management, join us at ProteusLeader.com. Have an excellent day, and thanks for listening.