#78: Making Wall Street More Human-Centered

You're listening to the Proteus Leader Show with Erika Andersen, where you'll get practical tools and insights for leading and managing and staying ready for the future. Erika is the founding partner of Proteus, a firm that focuses uniquely on leader readiness. A nationally known executive coach and bestselling author, you may already know her as one of the most popular leadership bloggers on Forbes.com. Ready for something you can use today? Here's Erika.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Proteus Leader Show. My guest today is Weiss Achiksan, the CEO and founder of Zen Culture Solutions. Weiss brings over 20 years of experience in investment banking at JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley, and Goldman Sachs, and has held multiple leadership roles primarily tasked with turning underperforming teams around through non-traditional Zen-based leadership practices. He has a business degree from the School of Management at Boston University, as well as multiple leadership credentials from Cornell University. Weiss is also one of the co-founders of the Homaira Rahman Foundation, which centers around providing educational opportunities for orphaned children in Afghanistan. So welcome to the show, Weiss.

Thank you so much, Erika. I appreciate it. And thanks for the introduction. Happy to be here.

Welcome. I'm thrilled to have you. You, you know, as we talked before this, you shared with me that you've always had a passion for elevating others to be the best version of themselves, which I love and aligns so well with our mission. And that you're on a mission to bring cultural transformation to Wall Street, so that organizations and individuals can realize their potential in this age of the Great Resignation and quiet Quitting.

Yes, that is right, Erika. Um, it's, it's been a mission of mine since I took on a leadership role earlier on in my career. Um, you know, you know as well as anyone, Erika, when you're privileged enough to have a leadership opportunity, you have so much at your disposal in terms of the ability to make impact on those around you. So the question is, what's your motivation when you have one of those positions? Um, what's your motivation? Is it because you want status? You want you know, financial prosperity, or do you want to use that position to help elevate those around you? And what I witnessed earlier on my career is that I was just a worker bee. I was coming in every day and I would— wasn't exactly content with the way that I was being led in some instances.

Yeah.

And I saw how it impacted my peers. I saw how it impacted myself. I would come in and just not feel like myself, you know, just because of my manager and how his words towards me, the emails, the just the littlest things and how the interaction went. And over time, I, you know, I resigned a couple of times because of my manager. And I said to him, I made a promise to myself, Erika, that if I had a leadership position, if I was given that privilege, I would cherish it and I would value it and I would value every single person who I had, you know, the chance to lead. And I've tried to hold true to that. I'm not perfect by any means. I've made mistakes. But this new venture of mine, leaving the industry, is to shine a light on what we could do better in my industry. I know, look, it's funny because you would talk about Wall Street. It's, you know, it's been lionized, it's been demonized, and, you know, in the movies and, you know, all these things that, but there's a lot of good people. In the industry. Yeah, a lot of good people in the industry. However, it's also tarnished in a lot of ways, and I feel like, I feel like we can do better as leaders. And so we can talk a little bit, we'll look at, we can expand on that, but my mission is to shine a light on how we can do that. Um, and, uh, that's my goal. And, you know, I'm looking forward to the challenges that I know will come ahead and that I've already seen. So.

Great context. I just love that. So given that, given what you've just said and what you're trying to do and, and given your experience, in this industry, what are the changes? What changes do you think are most critical and why?

Look, there's been a lot in the news over the years. Every decade has its own set of news. And with regards to turmoil in the financial industry, right, there's a lot of financial indiscretions out there that I feel like leaders are not held accountable. And so what happens— look at, look at what's happening in the banking industry right now, Silicon Valley Bank and the JPMorgans of the world and those, those big banks are sort of eating up the smaller banks. I feel like that's the trend that will continue. There's a lot of power. It's sort of a monopolization of the banking industry.

Yeah.

And I just feel like, you know, I don't know how healthy that is. And I feel like the way that you help change culture also is it's always been about profits and quarterly earnings, right? Just like any corporate— I understand it's a business. But obviously Wall Street has a certain reputation for being even more so emphasizing, you know, those traits. And it's just that when you do that, you also corrupt the individuals that are required to carry out those missions for those companies.

Yes.

Have to be ruthless to an extent.

Yeah.

Right. So, so, so I understand how they bring the— now I've seen it up close and personal. Then in fact they are ruthless. I can, I can attest to the fact that they are absolutely ruthless.

Yeah.

And so, but I'm saying, well, why can't we— why does it have to be that way? We can still— there's, there's needs out there. We can help. We're helping our communities. The banks are— we're helping, you know, the global economy in so many ways. There's always going to be a need there for the services of a bank. But how you go about your business Is important. And if you wanna do it in the ruthless ways and you bring in those types of people, well, guess what? You will have financial indiscretions.

Yes.

Right? Because the values are compromised.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

By any means necessary. I'm just simply saying that let's look at the way that we evaluate bringing in people into leadership positions and perhaps value more of the human elements.

Yes.

And, and, and perhaps, you know, those values will ultimately supersede And any other of those, you know, when you're at those crossroads, when you have to make that decision, you know, do you want to go the route of, okay, I'll do this, I'll probably get slapped on the wrist for it, it'll be better for the bank, right? We just have to write a check for the SEC. Or do you want to go to the route of let's do the right thing by the people, by the community? And most likely you'll get the same result, if not better.

If not better. That, I mean, you know that I agree with you. We've already had this conversation.

Yeah.

And that balance that I've, I've always loved that phrase of doing well by doing right. There, there is that underlying thing that, yes, we have to, we want to grow our business, we want to be focused on profit. And at the same time, as you say, we want to balance that with the human element to be moral, to value the people that work for us, the communities that we do work in. with the belief and understanding that if you balance those things, it will be better long-term for everybody concerned, including the business.

Absolutely. I mean, we were so short-sighted and just looking at our quarterly earnings. We're so, you know, and if we could just look at the macro and understand that when we— and then there's the whole talk about DEI everywhere, right? The last couple years especially. Well, what I saw, what I witnessed in the industry is that, and I, faced this firsthand, is that true cultural transformation has to start at the top, obviously, right?

Yes.

The top of the house. Your numbers with regards to diversity inclusion is one thing, but unless you have diversity inclusion at the top of the house where you have, you know, when you have different people representing from different backgrounds representing the firm, Well, guess what? You're gonna have ideas and thought processes that are varied, that are culturally different.

Yeah, yeah.

Right? So inherently you will transform the organization through these differing perspectives.

Yeah.

Right? And that's how you change the culture. Now, what we see right now in my industry, and I mean, you may see it in other industries as well, is that yes, the numbers of DEI are going up, However, it's only happening on the ground levels, the people doing the jobs, right? In those cases, the policies are not changing. The way they conduct business is not changing, right? So, so I feel like the numbers have been misconstrued in terms of what do they actually represent, in terms of does it really make a difference in terms of change. So those are the things that I want to shine a light on, and I think we can do better.

That's great. So, so then What do you see, knowing the industry as you do, what do you see as the biggest current impediments to making these kinds of changes?

Oh yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a, you know, um, I have a lot to say there, uh, but, but I have to tread cautiously. But the fact is that the old guard is still in charge, right? It's an old industry with— the world has evolved tremendously even in the past 5 years. But the industry has it along with it. Now, when you talk about innovation and technology and all those things, in that sense, AI, obviously that's gonna disrupt the industry. We always, in any job I've held in my industry, we've always talked about transfer change with regards to technology and how could we, you know, enhance efficiencies, you know, from an operational perspective, those things. That's, that's great. And there's always gonna be change in that regard. But where is the transformation when it comes to our approach to, to the culture and the industry and the way that we lead?

Yeah.

Right. And, and there's no transformation there. It stayed the same. It's been a constant.

Yeah.

And so, so with the world changing, I feel like we need to, to change with it.

Yeah.

And that means a different thought process. That means less hierarchy.

Yeah. Yeah.

There's always, everyone's gonna have their titles, but But we need to recognize talent when, when the right time comes for that individual, regardless of whether they're an associate, an analyst. If they have the talent and the skills and the capabilities, then there's no reason where their voice can't be heard.

I was gonna say, I love that because I tend to— it's funny, I feel like because I'm old, I can talk about people are too old, but, but it's kind of ageist. And, and really, it's what you just said. It's, it's mindset and thought process. I mean, there could be somebody who's 30 who's just stuck in an old way of thinking about things, and these are the kind of people we want, and this is the kind of hierarchy we need. And you're saying that just needs to get unstuck.

It needs to get unstuck. And I've seen a lot of talented young people, um, leave because they feel like their voice isn't being heard. And guess what? We're talking about a next generation coming in, and there's so many clichés and so many stereotypes associated with Gen Z. But guess what? They are our future.

Yes.

So look, just look at the statistic that McKinsey has out there, um, that Accenture has out there, showing how the younger generation is not lasting long in the industry.

Right.

So, so why is that? Well, when you have the old guard in charge, then their values don't align, their communication styles don't align, and there's a disconnect. We need to bridge that gap if we're gonna attract the brightest, the Harvards, the Dukes, the Michigans. They're going off to— they're going off to different industries, technology startups, fintech, all these other. But, but, you know, so for me, it's very fundamental changes at the top levels. And that's the main impediment, Erika, is just that the— also there's no accountability. So when you have these financial indiscretions, as we talked about earlier, as I alluded to earlier, There is no, you know, what's the true punishment? These are— we're talking about white-collar crimes essentially in some cases.

Yeah.

Right now, a normal person would go behind bars, and in some cases they do. But in a lot of cases, they just write a check because it's under the umbrella of the organization. So you can just write a, you know, a check to the SEC and you're scot-free. So Unless we truly hold our leaders accountable, I just feel like it will continue.

Well, I think into my last question, which is, you know, we always want practical takeaways, and I want to get down to the personal level now. So if we have listeners who are in this industry or in an industry like this, what, from your perspective, can they do to be the kind of leader day to day who attracts great people, builds strong businesses for the future?

Sure. No, thanks, Erika, for that question. I think it, you know, to me, I've always looked at any leadership role as put the team first. It's very basic, very elementary. So it's people first, clients second. Wall Street, for example, is a client business, right? I can tell you this flat out, Erika. I dealt with hedge funds most of my career that were my clients. And I love the people that I dealt with. However, they were not my priority. They were not my priority. And, and that's how I looked at it. My priority was my teammates. Absolutely. I was focused on them, on their development, on their growth. Yes, we had a job to do, but if I can get that piece right, they will do the job and they'll do it at their optimal levels.

Yeah.

Right. And, and so, and I, and I proved this to myself time and time again. Again, I wasn't the perfect leader, but our teams flourished.

Yes.

And our clients were, were happy and my team was happy. And, and, you know, and so, so putting the people first, less about the clients. The thing is, it's such a competitive landscape that it always has to be about getting that next client, high-profile client. And then when you do, keep them, keep them at any cost.

Yeah.

And, and so I just look at it, I wanna flip the script on that. You know, and, and making it about— it has to be employee-centric in any business that you run.

Yeah. Any business.

And so, yes, sometimes you're gonna have tough messages, and sometimes you're gonna have— you're gonna have to let people go. But the way that you do that can be in a humane way.

Yes.

Right? Communication, transparency, um, authenticity. Again, what is your motivation when you lead? What is your motivation? You know, My motivation has always been elevate others, like just do the— try to do the right thing. You're not gonna be perfect. You're gonna make mistakes. And when you make mistakes, own up to them. Let your team know that you're not— look, you're— it's on me, right? And I have so many examples, Erika, of where, you know, where we— where it was so evident that protecting your team, you know, and— but there's always that conflict of what the organization wants. versus kind of what you're trying to do within your own bubble. But it shouldn't be that way, right? We should have— we should be similar, we should be consistent organizationally. However, what you'll find in a lot of our organizations is that there'll be subcultures.

Yeah.

There'll be subcultures created. So as a leader, what you can do to answer your question is to try to protect your team, try to have them grow individually, have them ultimately flourish and become leaders. You want them to become leaders. Some don't have that naturally, don't have those dispositions, but that doesn't mean they can't do well.

Yeah.

But, but how, how they then— how then does that then translate into fitting into the fabric of the organization if it doesn't align with your values? That's where this— that's an interesting struggle. That's a whole other topic. So I didn't mean to veer into that topic, but to answer your question, I would make it people-centric. And focus on the human elements. I would focus on bringing in talent has to change the way that we look at bringing in talent. We, we so much focused on their skill sets in terms of the job requirement that we overlook the human elements and whether or not they have the emotional capacity to, to function, you know, in such high-pressure situations, in team environments and those things. And so what happens is You bring in those people and they're typically gonna be good at their job, but then they'll be given leadership positions ultimately. And then, and then what will they do with that? Right. And so, because they don't have that skillset. So for me, it's all about looking at how we can bring in talent, looking at it differently and focusing on the human elements because anything can be learned.

Yes.

Anything can be learned, but the human elements, it can be developed, right? We all have it in us. So that's, for me, recruiting is really, really important in how we change the dynamic of culture, leadership.

Boy, and I totally agree with what you're saying, that especially in the kind of high-stress, high-pressure, fast-paced environment the financial industry is, well, I've seen it, that when people feel like their boss really has their back, really is there for them, they're there for each other, it makes all the difference in the world. So thank you so much, Weiss. This is an important quest that you're on, I think.

And, uh, it can't be done alone.

Yes. And listeners, if you'd like to learn more about the support that WISE can offer leaders, just go to www.xenculturesolutions.com. And zen is X-E-N, xenculturesolutions.com. And to find out how Proteus supports leaders to be more conscious and more effective, go to proteusleader.com, click on topics, and choose accepted leader. So thank you, Weiss.

Thank you very much, Erika, for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

This has been great. And as always, thank you for listening. And until next time, here's to creating the life you truly want.

We hope you're feeling better equipped to create the career, the business, and the life you want. For more insights and tools for leadership and management, join us at theprudentialeader.com. Have an excellent day, and thanks for listening.