In this interview segment, host Evan Carmichael asks guest Steven Bartlett how service‑oriented entrepreneurs and charity workers can overcome the guilt and stigma of being paid for doing good. Bartlett argues that the stigma around "do‑gooders" needs to be dismantled by treating charity work as a legitimate business. He recommends paying charity staff fair wages, citing modern‑slavery‑act‑driven movements toward equitable compensation. He suggests practical, tax‑efficient giving options such as salary‑sacrifice programs and the UK’s Gift Aid system, allowing employees to direct a portion of their salary to charities while amplifying the impact with government matching. Bartlett also critiques entrepreneurs for undervaluing their time, urging them to raise prices by at least 30% and to view money as a neutral exchange of value rather than an evil force. He links negative money mindsets to upbringing and stresses that breaking this belief enables greater impact, larger teams, and broader societal change.
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Next up is Rishi Cup TV, Steven and Evan, your favorite.
I love Rishi. Yeah, I love it. Love Rishi. Love those questions.
So she's writing, uh, Steven and Evan, I find that service-minded people, or do-gooders in quotes, can have a very hard time also being paid for what they do. Any advice to get over that mindset hurdle?
Actually, do-gooders. So again, that's got a kind of stigma attached to it because I just think what we're talking about becomes natural. I think the other thing I think as well in terms of some of the community— I hope I answer this correctly, Richie, because I'm not absolutely certain how— do you want to monetize the do-gooding? Because I kind of think probably that's not the purpose of what you're seeking to address. I think, um, in terms of this, it could be how do you make a difference? So you could just walk down the street— well, number one, innately, if you just reach out with your friends, your partners, say what's really important to you, what are you passionate about, where you could make a difference to vulnerable people, you know, whether young people or disabled people or people less fortunate than us. And then the second thing is you could probably walk within a quarter of a mile of where you live and find something, a charity or people working really hard to make a difference where they could do with some help. Now, yeah, it could be financial, but quite often the best help they can have— because every charity is a business, you've got amazing business skills, you're entrepreneurs. You can probably help them run their business almost like as a mentor, maybe sort of a director type, and you can make a big difference to the efficiency of that business, to their reach, and all those sort of things. So I think we have to be quite creative about what is, what is going to be of real value to that business. And obviously, you know, in some respects, a part of that is from, you know, if they recruit do-gooders, as you say, charity workers, people who are passionate about an issue, I think it is fair to pay those charity workers a fair wage. And actually something we, you know, there's a whole kind of raft of things happening in Canada and US and most developed countries around the Modern Slavery Act, around paying people a fair wage. And I think this will become a movement as well because I think We want to share the wealth that we create with a wider population of people and not just kind of the executives. And I think what you can do is shine a spotlight to make sure that those kind of charity workers who are really giving and pursuing their passions get both obviously fairly treated but also reasonable compensation for their efforts. And I think that's a key role you can provide.
So as you were talking, there's been this chat happening around it, and she added that sometimes people who are service-oriented feel bad about receiving money, that it might change them, that they feel greedy for taking money for something they're doing that is doing good. And other people are saying, yes, I have— I struggle with that a lot too. So as an entrepreneur who's trying to do good, that fear of making money because they feel like they're being greedy when they're just trying to help. Getting over that mindset that, you know, money is bad.
Yeah, well, Rishi, one thing I— for your company, one thing I think is a great idea to do, very practical, is you can do, you know, salary sacrifice for what passion they pursue. So if you had a colleague who got paid, say, $30,000 a year, you could say, do you want to give this charity, they could name the charity, and then they can get 10% of that going every month to that charity. So if they feel— and if they're in a charity and they don't want to get paid for it, why don't you give them a fair wage? And then they can make the personal choice. Do they actually want to— they could give some of that money back to the charity. And the, the attraction about that, in some countries there's some really efficient tax ways where some countries and some governments gross that money up So certainly in this, in the UK, I think they give, I think it's another 25%, and there's a whole process called gift aid around that. So not only that would make me feel really good if I gave, as a colleague working in your company, Rishi, I gave up some of my own salary because I didn't feel worthy, but I knew that the government contributed more and made that dollar go further. So make every loonie go as far as it can.
The loonies. That's for our Canadians.
I love the loonies.
I think in general just entrepreneurs don't value their time enough. They don't value their contribution enough. They underprice themselves. I think most entrepreneurs should be increasing their prices at least 30% from where they are right now. And a lot of entrepreneurs have a hard time asking for money and it holds them back. And it's recognizing that money, money itself is, it's just an enabler. Money itself is not the end goal ever. Money is not evil. Money is not good. Money is just an exchange of value. And so for those people who feel like money is evil and you're going to be greedy for taking money, it's really just recognizing that you're providing these people with a lot of value and you've had a major impact on their lives. And that money will also now enable you to go off and have a greater impact and touch more people and hire a team. And now your team can go and help people as well. Keeping your, your mind clear of money being evil— and it often comes from our parents who, you know, they feel like money is evil, and now we feel like money is evil— you have to break free of that mindset or you're always going to live small. Your business is always going to be small. You're going to make just enough to survive and not enough to really build something special. And in that growth is where you can have an even bigger impact on the people around you, on the community, on the world. So breaking through that money is evil, greedy mindset is important.
