694: Skinnydipping in Sound with Sara Auster

You ready to go skinny dipping in sound with me? I know it sounds so much more lascivious than it is, but that's what we're going to do today. We're going to jump into the world of sound bathing. It's something that I've wanted to explore on a deeper level for a long time. So I decided to go straight to one of the masters, interview her, have a good conversation, really talk about what it means to incorporate sound into our other healing and therapeutic practices. So I had the privilege of speaking with the lovely Sarah Oster. And as soon as we get back from this little introduction, we're going to jump on in. I mean, the water's nice. Flow Dreaming, still kinda woo woo is just what it sounds like. An escape into the world of woo. Also a ride into you and how to feel happier, wiser and more self aware in every way. It's your ultimate journey into personal growth and inner power. We'll explore ideas like how your energy self influences the kinds of opportunities you encounter, or how your personal growth can drive your business growth, or even how that feeling of being stuck is really always coming from something else. We just have to figure out what that's right. We're a dash of woo woo. A sprinkle of self care, a heap of problem solving and pattern busting, and a giant cup of encouragement. We're going to relight so much passion, purpose, self love and confidence in you that you practically dagger. I'm Summer McStravik, your host and welcome to Flow Dreaming. Still kinda woo woo. Before I jump in with Sarah, I'll give you a little background. Myself. I have a very short, minimal, minimalist history with sound bathing. And yes, it's just like it sounds like sunbathing, but you're bathing in sound. You're allowing it to penetrate your skin, your cells, your being. You're allowing yourself to float in it. My very first experience, I think with sound bathing was at a place called the Integratron in Joshua Tree. It is a very cool, acoustically perfect geodesic dome. And the practitioners there will play usually it's like the, the crystal healing bowls or Tibetan healing bowls. You and many, many strangers will all lay together in this dominant dome and go on a journey. I thought it was absolutely fantastic, but I was curious what's happening to me and gosh, what's happening to that guy over there who's snoring through the whole thing? Like is any, what's, what's going on? So it kind of led me to look deeper into it after that, I actually brought in some sound healers and some sound therapy practitioners into some of my own retreats with. I run a program called Me School M E Me School. And I always try to give a treat, something a little different, unusual, that I surprise everybody with when they're there. And several times I chose this beautiful sound healing group who would take all of my students into a journey, a beautiful, luscious journey of relaxing, of processing, of integrating. So I've started to build an awareness of what this does, but I wanted to ask a few more questions, like what should I be expecting when I'm in there? Do certain instruments do things that others don't? What do you. What do you get from sound bathing as a. As a therapeutic kind of practice? How do you know if it's for you, that it's working for you? So like I said, I went straight to the lovely Sarah Oster. You can find her@Sarah Saraoster.com check her out on Instagram, where she's got an insane number of like 40 plus thousand followers. YouTube if you want to listen. She's got a great book called Sound Bath. She is internationally well known. She speaks, teaches all over the world, at corporations, with government agencies. She's also got a beautiful soft, centered feeling about her, which you're gonna just dive into yourself right now as we get this interview started. Sarah, I am so happy to meet you. Welcome.

Thank you, Summer. I'm happy to meet you as well.

I've been wanting to do a episode about sound bathing for just years and years and years. And I'll preface this by saying I have been to the Integratron in Joshua Tree. I'm sure you know what that is. And I've been in one or two sound baths myself, but I'm a complete novice besides those experiences. So please share with us, like just first of all, tell me who you are a little bit so people will get to know you besides what I already said about you.

First of all, I love that you use the term sound bathing. For the last 10 years, I've really been hoping that that would catch on. Sound bather. Sound bathing. So it's working? Yeah. I'm a sound therapist and meditation teacher and author. I'm primarily based in New York City, but I travel all over the world facilitating sound bath experiences, workshops and trainings. And I guess if we have a lot of people listening who haven't experienced a sound bath yet, the good news is will have a short experience for you a bit later, I guess. But what Is a sound bath is pretty helpful before we dive into working with sound.

Yeah. Can I interrupt real quick? When you describe it, I would love it from the perspective of, let's say I've never had a sound bath and I'm walking into a room and there you are.

Yeah.

What will happen? What will happen to me?

Really, really descriptive. I'll take you there. You want me to take you there?

Yeah, I want you to take me there. Let's head on in.

Let's go to a sound bath in our minds. Well, I first like to say what it is and then I'll describe the experience in much more detail so you can imagine yourself there. A sound bath is an immersive full body listening experience where we're intentionally using sound and mindfulness tools to invite gentle yet powerfully therapeutic and restorative processes. It affects the mind and body. Sounds affects us on all levels, physical, psychological, emotional as well. And so when you enter in to a sound bath experience, you might be invited to lie down or get comfortable. It's very key to having this experience. You might be offered a blanket or an eye mask if you're in a really cozy space. And then you'll be guided through a few mindfulness practices. Focusing on the breath. There could be a little bit of breath work. And then the remainder of the experience is a guided awareness of sound and listening. So as different frequencies from various different instruments are being introduced into the room, the idea is that your focus stays loosely on the sounds that you hear. Every person has a very unique relationship with sound. So what quote unquote happens to you in a sound bath or what type of experience you have is very unique to you. And not only your personal relationship with sounds, but also what you happen to be going through in your life, emotionally, physically, psychologically, etc. Because sound does have this ability to touch all of the parts of ourselves. And so at the end of the listening experience, then you'd be gently guided back, quote unquote, to the space. And potentially depending on the size of the group, which could be, you know, 1 to 1,000, there might be an opportunity to share and integrate the experience.

Yeah. So when you're lying there and you're being guided through and you're thinking to yourself, should I be seeing things, Should I be feeling things? It's completely individual. I'm falling asleep.

Well, you've heard, I'm sure you've heard this before, but you don't want to end up shoulding all over yourself. Yeah, yeah, that's very key. And it comes up a lot in meditative practices and sound bath experiences, especially an experience that is new to you. Am I doing this correctly? Am I doing this right? What is the person next to me experiencing? You know, I should be experiencing something like them. And the goal is to let that go and let yourself have the experience that is meant for you, which could be quite different from the person next to you. So I could give some examples of what happens. Sometimes people downshift into a more relaxed state, which could be one of the goals. Could be like a dreamlike state, like an alpha state. Some people fall asleep. Sound baths. And what I always like to say is if you fall asleep in a sound bath, it doesn't mean that you're bad at sound baths. It just means that you're tired. And actually you did benefit from the experience because you had a good nap. So, you know, all that to say is if you keep coming back and keep opening yourself up to experiencing sound in this way, you, you'll notice that every time is different.

Yeah. You mentioned frequencies just a minute or two back and how those frequencies sort of penetrate you, whether or not you're sleeping or you're going into a meditative state. How do you perceive the, the frequency aspect of what this is doing to you and in you on all the different levels, from a cellular level to a spiritual level. How do you see that?

Yeah, I mean, you use the word penetrate, which is interesting to me, and I like it. However, one of the reasons why I think the term bath is so appropriate in the experience is, is that I see the role of the sound as more holding the space around. Of course, the nature of sound and vibration is that it is able to touch every part of our being. However, from where I sit, it's happening in a much gentler way. Meaning in my, in my current work, as it is right now, I am not really prescribing frequencies. I don't really subscribe to the idea that there is one frequency that can affect the same exact thing in every person. So until there's, until there's more exploration into that aspect, I just like to think of the, the sound as holding a more gentle space than being as focused as, as, as penetrating. If that makes sense.

Yes, I, I, I. When you're saying that, I'm thinking I've had MRIs. We've all, anyone who's had one, we've had sound penetrate us. It is not a pleasant experience. Experience.

Yeah, yeah. Try not to use that word.

Yeah. Or I was at a concert a couple Months ago. And the bass was so loud, I felt like my heart was struggling to match it, and it was so uncomfortable. And I thought, this is not a good sound path. So I'm sure you see that. That some places are conducive and some other kinds of sound aren't, and you use specific instruments to create that beautiful conducive holding space.

Yeah. And one of the reasons why I like to use the. When I. When I give sort of my. My definition of what a sound bath is, and I use the words therapeutic and restorative as opposed to blissful, and, you know, those types of things, is because therapy can often feel a bit uncomfortable and a bit unsettling, and so can the sounds in a sound bath. And it doesn't mean that it's bad. It's just information to lean into to learn a little bit more about that relationship and what's coming up there. So. Right. It's our sense of hearing and listening and feeling sounds might. First, we think of it as designed as a safety mechanism. Right. When you were standing next to that speaker in that concert, and your body naturally wants to. What's called, entrain to the kind of stronger frequency. But if it's not comfortable for you, then your body is telling you, oh, move away from this speaker. Maybe step out of the room entirely and take a breath of air. Those are all those signals to you saying, maybe I need to move away from this and not into it. But those types of subtleties in experiencing sound and listening to sound is what I'm really interested in for people to have the safe space to explore.

Yeah. Do you find that, again, certain instruments create more of that effect than others? I mean, what are. What are some of your favorites? Crystal bowls or chimes? I don't even know which one you. You name them, not me.

What are we talking about here? I don't know.

What do you play? Tin cans. No, I'm joking.

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, right? You could. I have a funny story about that. Yeah. But typically, the sounds in a sound bath are. Are being created by a variety of resonant or overtone emitting instruments, which could include crystal singing bowls, Himalayan singing bowls, tuning forks, gongs, chimes, you know, various. Various different instruments. And it has more to do with the intentionality of how the instruments are being played and the sequencing of the instruments than what's being played. I facilitated a sound bath up in Martha's Vineyard once in October. It was just the peak of fall foliage and beautiful dried leaves on the ground. And I love the sound of dried leaves. And so as I was going in to set up, I grabbed a branch with some dried leaves on it, and I thought, well, this would be great and appropriate to the setting. And I integrated it in, to the experience. And at the end of the sound bath, when I had participants sort of share what come up, what came up, this really powerful, moving experience for a lot of people. This one woman said, and then there was this moment you played this instrument. It just. It sounded like dried leaves, and it was so beautiful, and it made me feel like I was walking through a forest. And I turned behind me and I picked up this branch with dried leaves on it. I showed her, you know, it was. But it was. It was the. It was the setting. It was her awareness. It was her openness and willingness to hear, perceive, and receive sound with a different kind of focus and a different kind of perspective that helped her to. To. To really be blown open, I guess, by the sounds of dried leaves. That woman went on to do my. One of my trainings, and now she's facilitating sound baths herself. So you can see that. That powerful connections of sounds that she had.

Yeah, yeah. I. I'm thinking too, of the. The dried leaves and the sense. I'm wondering if, you know, you use the word entrainment when you're guiding, say, a group like this, and you knew that it was time to bring them through this autumnal transformation. Connecting to the. Are you in training with your participants? Are you kind of following them and they're following you, and you're all following the landscape? Is there. Is there an intuitive aspect, or are you kind of more following a formula?

Yes.

Yes to both. I love this question. Okay.

Because that's the answer. The answer is yes. The answer is, I have a sense, from working with sound for many years, the potential effects and outcomes of different combinations of sound. I know very well how my instruments and tools work and how I play them and how I get them to make different sounds. So that's all very. That's all very intellectual. Right. Is what. Having an understanding a bit about music theory, having a background as a musician and a meditation teacher, and knowing about the physiology and the psychology of sound, and all of that is very important. And then when you step into the room, you have to be able to. To be in conversation with what's happening. So as I'm facilitating, I am taking in the environment. I am in conversation, in a sense, with what's happening in the room. I'm able to notice breathing patterns of different Participants, of course, I notice if somebody falls asleep and they're snoring. And so all of these different cues that I'm picking up help to inform what I choose to do next to continue to hold the space for the group.

I'm thinking how all violins have a little different sound, and you're an instrument as much as the instruments that you're playing. And the woman you taught is an instrument for her students. So you act in a way that really can't be duplicated. I mean, neither can she. Right?

It's, oh, exactly 100%. And even though I teach my particular method, it is so important that my students really understand that when they're facilitating, because they have to understand, you know, what particular tuning they're in before they enter into the space. And as any kind of healer, facilitator, or podcast host needs to do when they're holding the space for another person is just show up clear. Anything that happened before, you just kind of sit it outside. Anything that's going to happen after that stays outside, too, so that you can be fully present with what's happening in the moment. And that goes for the facilitator as well as the participant. This is why it's not exactly a passive experience for the sound either.

Yeah, it doesn't feel passive at all. I mean, aside from perhaps sitting down.

It looks passive.

It looks passive. Yeah. And I, believe me, I've sat in judgment of the person snoring in the room, but I will no longer do that, I promise. Shifting gears, I want to go back to the. Those natural sounds again, the leaves. Do you feel that soundscapes that are just naturally around us in the world also have effects on us? I'm thinking of the noisy city. I'm thinking of the sound of, you know, I go sit at the beach. I live right by the Pacific Ocean in California, and there's a sound, and I receive a certain thing from these different places. So how do you feel about that? I mean, are there forms of healing or anti. Healing. Anti. Therapy in some places?

Oh, yes. Let's see. Where do I begin? How you listen is how you live. And so you can go into any environment and explore that environment through your listening and your relationship to sound. Are there some environments that can potentially be literally dangerous to your. Heal your hearing? And yes, the answer is yes. I live in New York City. You know, when you. When you're. When you're walking by, a jackhammer or a siren drives by, you know, please, it's fine to cover your ears. And protect yourself. Right. Except simultaneously, you can also explore your reaction and your relationship to that sound, which is something that I had to do very often when I used. For 10 years, I lived across the street from a firehouse in lower Manhattan. And so the sirens would just go on, you know, blazing many times a day. And at first I just. I would feel my body tense up so much until I started to shift my relationship to the sounds. I talk about this in my book is whenever the sirens came, I would feel myself tense up, and then I would say, you know what? They're going to help somebody in need. And what I can do in this moment is wish them well and hope that the traffic clears so they can get through so that they can do their job to help somebody. And I started to notice over time that when the siren would go off, I wouldn't have as strong of a. Of a physical reaction to it because I started to shift my relationship to that sound. And so when you go into nature, for instance, when you're. When you're by the beach and you're listening to waves, that's a whole different kind of, maybe more beautiful entrainment to connect to the earth, to connect to the frequencies of nature by the beach, in the woods. Just really, really be open to. To notice and explore how your. How your physiology and how your emotions shift with that as well.

Yeah, you really. Obviously, I think I'm preaching to the choir. But you're talking about sound as a tool with a certain use, just like we might use medicine for a certain use or therapy for a use. How does one know if sound is going to be their tool, is going to be the one that really sings to you, that makes you shift?

I think the first step is to be open to try it, knowing that you don't have to label the experience as good or bad. I think the same goes. You use therapy as an example. Right. I assume that you're talking about psychotherapy. You might say, I need to navigate this difficult situation in my life, so I'm going to go to therapy. And you might be open to going to therapy, but you might not really have the best match of a therapist. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try necessarily to go talk to somebody else. Right. Because like what you said about my student and me and everyone being a different kind of tuning, I think it applies certainly in a lot of different modalities and tools that can help us, like medicine, for instance. You know, you can try something that. That might help to alleviate the symptoms. But it might not be the exact right prescription and then you try something else. And I think that that is the, the important, the most important thing to remember in your individual healing journey is that it is, it's not one size fits all. So you kind of, you can keep reaching for these different tools but give yourself some time for reflection and self inquiry so you can really assess what is, what is helping.

Yeah. Ah, makes me think I need to go back and have a few more sound paths and maybe do it a little more consistently because I'm always the first one to preach. Do your practice consistently. You're not going to have a mind blowing single time experience that changes everything forever. Or you might, but it's probably going to fade. Go back, keep doing your practice, let it be cumulative. Feels like this is the same in that sense. What about the sound? We haven't. Maybe the most important sound, the voice, the human voice. Do you ever incorporate that?

I always incorporate it. I do think it is a powerful tool and instrument, one that we all have, one that's free, one that's very important and to know how to access, to express yourself. And so vocal work is usually a part of the experience that I facilitate and certainly part of my training for sure. One of the motivating forces behind the work that I do is to make it accessible. And so the fact that people can use their voices to access healing with sound, it doesn't get more accessible than that. You don't need to buy a very expensive singing bowl or have a very expensive private sound bath.

Yeah.

And so it's one of the reasons why I work with the voice and one of the reasons why I have many accessible recordings of sound baths as well.

I know finding your voice, I mean, that's such a cliched term, but it has so many layers to it. When you're working with somebody and they can't find their voice, you know, they're afraid to. They don't want to express, they don't want to incorporate. They want the sound. They want to lay inside someone else's sound, maybe not create their own. Do you see where I'm, I'm not sure where I'm going with this question.

I see where, I see where you're going. Okay, so. And I think about, you know, finding your voice implies that it's lost or you're lost. And I think that everybody has the potential to connect to their voice. And if they, if you understand that the voice has multiple meanings. Meaning like if you're having trouble expressing your vision or manifesting your dream or something like that and that. Then, then work on your vocal voice, then do practices where you can access the literal sound of your voice. And when you do that, your voice becomes embodied in, in you. If you can, you can follow me along. I'm using my hands a lot as I'm talking, so I'm trying to describe with my hands. Sometimes people who are restricted in their self expression might feel some restriction like literally in their throat. And so when you do vocal work with your voice, you start to notice that your actual sounds of your voice drops down into your body and there is a very specific correlation that happens. And so if you feel like you're disconnected from your, from your self expression or from your work, go right into the literal practice of making sound with your place.

Do you have suggestions for that? Do you suggest a certain kind of chant or certain words or.

So in my practice that I offer to other people, I usually like to leave out any kinds of chanting or singing because it can feel restrictive or maybe like a barrier to entry. And so I always start with a practice called vocal toning. And vocal toning is not singing or chanting. It's just the elongated adding sound to the elongated breath. And so it's just a, it's just a hum basically. And I can, I can give you an example right now. You just invite a full breath in through your nose and then exhale any tone on a long hum. Just until all the air is out and then you take in another breath and you do it again and you take in another breath and you do it again. So it's not, it's not an om, it's not a bija mantra. It's not singing, it's just adding sound to the exhale and vocal tone and then you can start to explore with different vowel sounds and that gets really, really fun. But it's a really simple, accessible practice.

It's the weirdest thing. When you did that, I heard a didgeridoo.

Just my voice.

Yeah. No Sarah, you're a didgeridoo. Yes. Anything special about Australia?

That's my other job.

Oh, that's funny. Oh Sarah, it's been wonderful. I, I, I'm, we're going to play a mini sound bath here in a couple of minutes. But I really want to thank you for coming and sharing and tell everybody again. Saraoster.com no h s a R A your book Sound bath. Beautiful by the way, gorgeous light cover. I love exploring it earlier and just it evokes the feeling.

Thank you.

Also, Instagram, Sarah Oster and YouTube is a good place to see your stuff. Anything else I didn't mention or you want to pop in with?

Yeah, just stay, stay connected and explore and feel free to, to reach out with questions. Certainly through my website and on Instagram, I. I love following people's journeys and explorations with sound.

So do you still, do you know, what do you call them? Well, you call them sound baths, but I was gonna say concerts. Or do you mainly just train other people to become practitioners at this point or do both?

Yeah, good question. So I just got back from Rome. I was working with the World Health Organization as faculty for a brand new course that they're offering for leaders in public health. So I was teaching a course on mindfulness and sound therapy to leaders in public health from over 20 countries in the EU. So that is something that I'm currently doing. And I also have an ongoing series this year with the New York Philharmonic. So I have some events coming. If you're in New York, I have some events coming up with the New York Philharmonic. You mentioned Integratron. I. I rent out that space a couple of times. A couple times a year to facilitate my own sound baths there. So I'm. I am traveling a bunch, will be in Japan in a couple weeks. So if you're interested, definitely sign up for my newsletter, my website, and I'd love to. I'd love to see all your listeners all around the world and I'd certainly love to see you in LA too.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Sarah. It's been a wonderful conversation. So just hang out, everybody. We're gonna go listen as Sarah leads us through a little sound bath.

Take a comfortable seat or lay. Allow your body a moment to relax and settle. Let your eyes close or gently look downward. Softly bring your awareness to your breath. Invite a slow breath in through the nose and exhale gently through the mouth. Now begin to listen attentively to any sound that arises. If a thought comes into your head, let it rise up like the sound of a car going by. And then let it fade away. Simply come back to listening. Sam sa. Slowly open your eyes, inviting in the light of your space, noting if anything has shifted in your body or your awareness. Thank you for listening.

I kind of feel like I'm breaking in, breaking the silence, the mood. But we do have to wrap up this episode, so I hope you all really enjoyed the sound bath with Sarah. You'll maybe start thinking about the different kinds of materials we can use in our lives to wash, scrub and soak ourselves with or in. It's not just a bubble bath. Again, you can find Sarah online. Look her up. Sarah Oster A U S T E R and I will see you all again for another episode of Flow Dreaming. Still kinda woo woo. So this show is in its 19th season. 19 years folks. Which means if you want to see baby sleep, summer and all that she was obsessed about you, can I just put 10 seasons of archives up into Apple Podcasts and at the moment there's a seven day free trial. This means you can binge to your heart's delight. You'll hear hundreds of Flow Dreams, all kinds of specialized manifesting topics. So much all you do is go to Apple Podcasts on your iPhone or get the Apple Podcasts app on any phone or even just google the search words Apple Podcasts Flow Dreaming. Anyway, it was a big endeavor but I'm so happy to re release so many hundreds of episodes for you. Check it out.