BONUS: Healing in Layers with JJ Flizanes

We think we're over it, and then we're not over it. And then we're over it and not over it. Today we're looking at healing, healing, healing who we are, where we've been, healing what we call our core wounds, those things that seem to travel with us through our lives. And we think, gosh, will this ever get sewn back together again? Well, I have a guest today that I'm going to introduce you to. Her name is JJ Flzanes. And she's going to talk to us about those core wounds, about what healing really is, what it really means, and also why maybe all that therapy you've done hasn't really led you to where you want to be. Oh, we've got some hot stuff. So if you're curious, if you feel like, gosh, yes, there is something inside me that needs to, you know, finally just get through, be done, get healed. Then I want you to meet JJ and just briefly, a little about her. She's an empowerment strategist and she hosts a lot of podcasts, including People's Choice Awards nominee Spirit, Purpose and Energy, which, by the way, I am also being interviewed on, if you want to check it out. JJ works with conscious spiritual truth seekers who want to remove emotional blocks to their success. She helps people identify sabotaging patterns and transmute struggle into joy. She helps by creating a personalized roadmap to your emotional healing. You can find out about her by visiting jjflizanes.com or search her podcast, Spirit, Purpose and Energy. Now let's get this rolling. Flow Dreaming Still Kinda Woo Woo is just what it sounds like. An escape into the world of woo also. So a ride into you and how to feel happier, wiser and more self aware in every way. It's your ultimate journey into personal growth and inner power. We'll explore ideas like how your energy self influences the kinds of opportunities you encounter, or how your personal growth can drive your business growth, or even how that feeling of being stuck is really always coming from something else. We just have to figure out what. That's right. We're a dash of woo woo. A sprinkle of self care, a heap of problem solving and pattern busting, and a giant cup of encouragement. We're going to relight so much passion, purpose, self love and confidence in you that you practically stagger. I'm Summer McStravik, your host and welcome to Flow Dreaming. Still kinda woo Woo. Jj, I'm loving having you here with me today. I've got a billion little questions to ask you about healing and some bombshell questions, too, as it turns out.

Welcome, Summer. I can't wait to have this conversation with you.

Well, you know, we were talking about this a little bit. I'll tell everybody. Yes, we spoke before we started recording. And I said, you know, what is it that you're most passionate and focused on right at this minute? Because, jj, you do a little of everything. You're kind of like me. Like, I could work in any area. We could talk about manifesting. We could talk about intuition. But you said, you know what really gets me going? Looking for patterns, looking for blocks, helping people with core wounds, healing. And I said, that's it. That's where we're going. So the first thing that you mentioned to me that made my hair start smoking was, you have said before that talk therapy is ineffective. Why do you say that? What does that mean?

Well, first, let me make the disclaimer. For those of you that are currently in talk therapy and you love your therapist and you feel that they've done a great job, and your life looks and feels different. What I'm about to say does not apply to you. However, there are many of you that are out there who have done therapy, and you like being heard and seen and acknowledged and validated. But it's been going on for a long time, and. And you still get triggered by the same things, and your life kind of still looks the same. And even if you got divorced and you're remarried or out that a relationship or you got a new job, you're still having some of the same complaints. And you're thinking, but I dealt with that in therapy. Why does it look the same? Why does it feel the same? I have a quote that I made years ago in that was guided. That was. It was a download in the heat of, you know, channeling information and coaching to somebody. And that quote is healing is when you're different in the same situation. For most people, they think, if I'm in a bad relationship or if I'm in a bad job, I'm just going to quit my job. I'm going to end my marriage and move on to somebody else. Well, here's the problem. You take you with you, and as I'm sure Summer has taught you upside down and around, you are the attractor of your life. So it is. You are attracting what you are, not what you want. So if you're continuing to take you with you without changing you, you're going to manifest the same situation. Different set of clothes, maybe different set of circumstances, maybe even different Geography, but it's going to feel the same and they're going to be the same complaints. So there are. I did a whole webinar that everyone can access, it's free, called the three Reasons why Talk Therapy is Ineffective. Now, that was couple of years ago, and since then I can probably add two or three more. I'm writing a book right now and I'm at five Reasons why Talk Therapy is Ineffective. But let's just go over one very basic one. When you walk into a therapist, therapist office. And again, I'm talking traditional talk therapy. I'm not talking about all the other tools that are available out there for people to use. Just the act of showing up and having a conversation with somebody and wanting to work on something. Nine times out of 10, you're, you're, you're the victim. You come in because you have a complaint. And we talk about all the circumstances and stories and reasons why you feel the way you do and why your life looks the way that it does. And it's always about the other people and your therapist who you don't know. And you don't even know if that person's gone through something like you. They haven't really earned your trust in knowing that they have been able to learn their, these lessons themselves and apply them in their own lives. They just have a degree you don't really know. I mean, unless you have someone that referred you to them. So the whole first part of therapy is the getting to know you piece. And the therapist listens to you and they may acknowledge you and they may ask you some questions, but the core focus is around whatever story you came in with. And for a lot of people, you never leave that story and you don't learn anything new. There's no looking at the therapist as a guide, maybe as a guide to uncovering how and why you feel the way you feel. But the story never changes. I have had, and again, I have been to therapists and I have been in a therapeutic mindset my whole life. Didn't think I even needed therapy for that reason. And. But when I got married, and even before I got married, I was using coaches and different therapists. And I mean, I've had a really good experience with a lot of different kinds of therapy. And it's amazing to me, even one therapist, I walked into her door and the only reason I wanted to use her was emdr, because at that time I didn't realize I could use eft, which I do now, in the way that they were using emdr. So I thought, okay, I can't do that on myself. Let me find someone that does this. And I walked into that person's office, very clear, telling them I wanted to do emdr. And in six sessions, we did it one time. And every time I would walk in and ask to do emdr, she'd say, well, how are you doing? And I would catch her up to date on what's going on in my life. And, of course, what happened. The entire hour was spent talking about whatever I opened my mouth to say first about the frustrations I had at home. We never had a plan. We never had a structure. You don't know when you're getting any better. And it's why I think most men hate therapy, because they don't understand there's no structure. There's no. There's no point A and point B. And when do I know that I'm getting better? And how do. How can I tell? There's no quantitative or qualitative things that I'm supposed to look for, because I'm literally coming in for an hour and just talking about whatever you ask me for in the moment, which is normally present day.

Yeah, yeah, those. Those would be called mile markers in my language. What's the mile marker we're at? Where. Where were we? Where are we now? I completely agree with the idea that we often get stuck in a position of knowing what's wrong and then knowing what's wrong. Oh, I know what's wrong. Here's what's what's wrong. And I call that being stuck in the identification phase. And I say, how long have you been stuck in identifying the problem? And often the answers are three months, six years, my entire life. So you are literally stuck in phase one. You've identified it, good job. Now what? So you take it from there. How do you then set somebody up for an actual, true course of healing? And I'm speaking about emotional healing, but obviously trauma or even maybe physical healing.

I come from the school of similar quantum physics and epigenetics, which to me are the highest sciences out there, and everything else organizes underneath them. So if you don't know what that means, that means that you create your own reality. That means that quantum physics is basically law of attraction in its scientific form. It's physics and its vibration, and it's so simple, but yet so profound that most people don't believe it. They don't think that, oh, just feeling better is going to help me heal. But in actuality, there are sciences to prove and to lead you down that path. I didn't need to have all of those sciences to prove that to me, but a lot of people do. So when it comes to healing, you know, we have many layers and aspects to deal with. And again, another reason why the therapy, the therapeutic model, the traditional talk therapy model is that I'm going in and I'm using my left brain to recall and to tell a story about my who I am in the world and my interpretation of my relationship to that. And I'm not actually. And that's your left thinking brain, not even your left feeling brain. A little bit of left feeling brain comes into play. But then we're not really dealing with the right brain and we're not really activating the right brain in how to grow or to create new neural pathways to have a different experience in that same situation. So we have that first aspect from a whole. But what I do differently that came out of me going to therapy and going to therapy with my ex husband was to identify the core wounds. And you know, for someone who's very extremely self aware, I have been asking myself since I can remember, I mean very young, I would notice my behavior and ask myself why do I feel that way? Why do I, what do I think is happening here? Why did I act that way? Why did they act that way? I've been asking those questions since I was, before I was 10. Okay, so there's this extreme self awareness. But at the same time, even though I could see the patterns that I had, it wasn't enough to see see it from a different perspective. So when I did a certain exercise around core wounds, it was life changing because I got to see the pattern throughout my entire life. And in that. And I have a Sagittarius moon, which means that I'm a truth seeker. And when I acknowledge or see the truth, it is enough to make behavioral changes. So me acknowledging and seeing this pattern over my entire life of these core wounds was like, oh my God, why isn't everyone everywhere doing this exercise before they step into therapy? So that you have a plan of what the hell you're even working on.

Okay, define core wound. Let's just backpedal a little bit.

Core wounds are the beliefs or stories that you have based on your upbringing. So for instance, if your parents were both working and you didn't get a lot of attention, you would have assumed in your before you were 10, you would have made that mean that you're not important, that you're not good enough, that you're invisible. So a Core wound is being invisible. A core wound is feeling abandoned. Right. And that can happen in many different ways. It doesn't have to be physically abandoned. It could be emotionally abandoned. It could be made to feel guilty. Is another core one being controlled is another core wound. When we can identify a few of the top core wounds, now we have something to do. Now we can notice in our now how we're living out that wound from the past. But if we're just using a story in a circumstance, then it's always about the story and the circumstance instead of going back to the beginning. Because the other thing that I've been working through, I create programs around these. So I have a, had an empowerment strategist certification program where I taught these tools and then that moved into a six month deep dive because I didn't have a better name for it. And now I'm in the rewiring your core wound patterns program. Because I'm under, because I keep going like layers deeper and layers deeper with it. Because not only did that thing happen, that then put in your subconscious, I'm unimportant, I'm invisible, I'm controlled. And then all the feelings and then the habits, the immediate actions that happen because of that, right? You have, the core wound goes, here's the belief. The belief is I'm invisible. So then here's how I feel. I feel sad. And then what do I do? I withdraw. So when we understand the pattern, now we know what to look for and now we know what to reprogram. So we have to be good.

Okay, so yeah, well, so, so the technique, you said, you know, if, if you could just perform a technique before you even think about therapy, is that the technique really coming to just discovering, you know, digging down, being archaeologist and, and figuring out what is the core wound that I want to or I need to work on. Is that like the number one and how do you, is there a technique for that? Like how do you do it?

It's my program and I, I, I got the original exercise out of the imago work with Harvl Hendricks and his getting the love that you want workbook. But it's to be done in a couple situation and it's not necessarily for individuals. But when I did it in a couple situation I thought, well what the heck, I mean this, everybody needs to do this individually. If we would have done this individually, we wouldn't be here right now. And not to mention this is going to shortcut years of therapy when you, and when you can identify very quickly the exercise takes about an hour. It's an in an hour you can see your patterns. Doesn't that is so much value to now go now what do I do with that? And I think that most people spend therapy, they talk and they talk and they come and they come and again, it's all about what's happening now. It's all about what's happening now. Sometimes we'll talk about the past, sometimes it's now and then how many years go by and we can maybe identify a core wound, but we don't know the pattern of the wound, we don't know how it gets triggered, what do I feel and then what do I do and how do I act? So that's the first level. I call it. I create a, it's called a core wound map. So once you do the core wound exercise, we extract from that exercise the map. And the map is showing you when I get triggered, it's one of these beliefs that gets triggered. Then this is how I feel and then this is what I do. Okay, great. Now what? Well then we have to look at, well your, your core ones happened in the past and we once we could kind of look at that. We have to say, well, how am I contributing to that? So I look at a map, I make the map go to the next level of how are you continuing to re trigger that and to strengthen that belief in your own life. So if you feel invisible, and that's a core wound of yours, are you constantly being quiet around situations? Are you never advocating for yourself? Are you. How are you continuing to activate that wound daily in your life because you have to take responsibility for your fuel to the fire, so to speak.

Yeah, exactly. It becomes, it sounds like it's a, it's a kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. I always say what you are on the inside is what is reflected on the outside. Meaning the world around you is a perfect reflection of who you are. So if you're constantly reconfirming this core wound, I'm invisible, so I'm hiding myself. And so it's like of course, which is the chicken or the egg kind of situation at this point. So when you take a person like that or when somebody starts, you know, this, this path of, of real deep inner healing. And obviously the reason we're healing is because we want to reach that state of true inner power as well as awareness, authenticity, all the rest. But what's the first step, you know, once they've identified this wound? Like how do you actually go about the healing? I Think that's a really murky and confusing area for a lot of people. They just think if they learn more, they'll somehow heal themselves through just learning more. But I wonder if it's learning, I wonder if there are things you actually do.

Oh, you have to do them. There's no other way to reprogram and do the neural reprogramming of your brain. So it's the thing. And that's why this rewiring your core wound pattern program came to be. I had tested out a three month version of my six month empowerment strategist course and it was too much data, it was too much learning and it wasn't enough doing. And I thought, okay, three months and too much, too much data, it can't work. And then I went to the six month deep dive and I had a whole bunch of air signs. And for anyone that doesn't know astrology, air signs are great thinkers. They, they, they love thoughts and ideas, right? And so it wasn't about the thoughts or ideas. I realized that if I don't make them do something, they're not going to reprogram this. And we need to create new, new neural pathways, which means you have to go up against the thing that skills scares you and do it anyway. It's that feel it until you heal it, or you gotta feel it to heal it. And so that's how that program got created. Because for me, as a sag moon, yeah, my awareness is enough for me to make a behavioral change. But for many people it's not at all. In fact, they need, they need something completely different in order for them to, to make change. So there is, there are actions and we specifically through the mapping process of your core wounds, figure out what that is for you. There has to be action and it has to be uncomfortable action that pushes through your comfort zone. That is the only way to start. And repetition of some things that are easier can help over time, but it's usually the bigger thing that causes the brain to go, what? Right, like when it's that idea that neural reprogramming happens when. Because anything that we're afraid of, the brain goes danger, danger, danger. This is going to be scary, don't do it. And so you go, oh, okay, I'm going to listen. But if you understand from the broader perspective of your intuition and your logical brain that that isn't going to kill you because you're not going to die because you cried. You're not going to die because you did this thing that's really scary. The minute you do it, the brain repatterns and goes, oh, I'm not going to die. Oh, that wasn't that bad. And then you do it again, and it's like, oh, well, hold on, this is actually kind of easy. Then you do it again, and the brain goes, oh, I kind of like this. And you do it again. The brain goes, oh, I really like this.

But.

So we have to take action. But we have to figure out what specific action per person based on your wounds, based on how you. How you're keeping that pattern alive. So it's not random. It's doing hard things, but not randomly, like jumping out of, you know, bungee jumping or doing some crazy thing. It's only about the specific for you and your individual needs.

So let's say you have a person then who, you know, the core wound is. I grew up feeling invisible, and therefore I felt unvalued as well. And it's playing out in my life right now in that I'm not earning what I should be earning because I'm not seen. I don't show myself. I don't ask. I'm not valued by my friends. I'm constantly just giving to them and being taken advantage of because I'm trying to overcompensate for that feeling of, I'm not seen enough, they don't like me enough. So would you then say, okay, the next step is, you have to go march up to your boss, do a presentation of exactly what you're worth, and leave it sitting on the desk. Or you have to talk to your friends and say, I feel like I'm really unvalued in this friendship, and I want to know what I mean to you. Like, what would that be? Would those be examples of the cringy, uncomfortable things that you would do to try to start mending this?

No. That might be a second step, but it has to start with how are you doing it to you? And it's about your. How you carry your own self if. If having a conversation. This actually just happened today with one of my groups, somebody who is, I think. I don't know if her core wound is invisible, but she's very quiet. And in a class that she's in, she didn't get the response that she wanted from the teacher. And so now she's really mad and she's really upset. But I also know that part of her pattern is to be quiet and to keep it stuffed and to not make waves and to not bring it up. And so I said, as we were going through her feelings and needs. I said, in fact, it's sitting in front of me right now. I said, I think you feel frustrated, angry, sad, helpless and discouraged. And your needs are for acknowledgement, effectiveness, integrity, respect, and inclusion. Now, this is an exercise that I teach. It's called the feelings and needs list. And it comes from the work of Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, when I said she needed all those things. The thing is that you can't need it from somebody else. You can notice that you're not getting it through the mirror of somebody else, but you have to be the one to give it to yourself. So in the case of I need acknowledgement, she needs to be able to see and acknowledge how she grown in this class, how she'd been able to increase her skillset, and is she proud of herself and is that enough? Is it that? What is she actually looking for in this class? The effectiveness anyway. So when you go through it, you have to say, so in the case of a person who isn't making what they should be making or think that they should be making, the question becomes, well, am I in my zone of genius? Am I even in a job where I am using my skills and talents in the best use for my purpose here on the planet at this time? Is this what lights me up, or am I going there for money? Because if the focus is on money, we are disrespectful, Respecting ourselves by not being in integrity with who we are and what we need to do in this world so that it leads to different kinds of conversations. But ultimately it's not about destroying outside circumstances yet. They may naturally shift and they may work out the way you want them to, but it has to start with your own inner dialogue, interpretation, and feeling about those circumstances. And then being able to look at yourself in the mirror and say, well, am I respecting myself? Am I respecting myself from being here? Am I prostituting myself? Am I here to make money? But I hate my job because do you think that that's going to be in alignment with asking for money? Of course it's not. But then the reality is you're probably afraid to actually do what you really want to be doing, which is also it disrespecting yourself.

I think half the audience is just shaking their heads and, and, and ducking right now and like, oh, she's talking about me. She's talking about me.

Yes, well, we've all been there. We're all, you know, in different circumstances. We've all been there. But that's part of the growth and learning, because if you can identify that's where you are, you're probably not going to do it again. If you're uncomfortable enough to grow through it.

Yeah. Do you feel that any form of healing, though, actually contains pleasure? Like, do you feel that healing can be a pleasurable process or a joyful process?

Yes, absolutely. So there is. So I have somebody in the current group, and she. One of the first things I told her to do was to. Well, I do a lot of things that. Whatever your love language is. So that person's love language is words. So I said, I want you to. And she's very critical of herself. And I said, I want you to look in the mirror every day, and I want you to tell yourself all the wonderful things about you. And I also want you to come on the Marco Polo and tell us every day all the wonderful things about you. I add dancing and movement into most people's programs. I said, I want you to get up and do five minutes of dancing every day. And she was like, ugh. Really? Like, really? And then the first time she did, she's like, oh, my God, I love this. This is amazing. Right? So, yes, there are definitely pleasurable things. It's not just the hard things. But here's the thing. Once you get over the first hard thing, you're like, whoa, I feel so much better. Because it's the thing that you. That had power over you. If you're so afraid of something, it has power over you. And so until you take your power back, you're always going to feel that way. And even though it's hard in the beginning, once it's done, you have this rush of like, you're. You know, you've now expanded yourself into a new place, and you have a new confidence about your. You have. You have less fear, you have more trust. And so it's almost like an orgasm, in a way. Like, you have that new experience that goes, oh, I get it. Doing the hard thing that scares me brings me this sense of. Of confidence in myself and. And peace and joy and lack of fear. And now I feel hopeful, and I feel right. So it. But. So everything isn't hard. Um, there are definitely pleasurable things, but even the pleasurable things, people can't. You know, I do workshops. I know you do a lot of things, too. I have live events and the first manifesting manifestation bootcamp that I did. You know, I did a rampage. I'm thinking, oh, this will be easy for people. Rampage appreciation. That's easy. Yeah. Because I've Been doing it forever. So I get. Everybody stand up. I'm thinking this is going to be a 30 minute exercise. Grab a partner. Here's what we're going to do. Three minutes, you're going to rampage about what's good in your life. Oh my God, they sucked at it. I'm like, oh my God, you guys are terrible at this. If you can't have positive energy about good things in your life for three minutes, wow, do we have a lot. Look at what can come to you. Like, this is a really.

You had to do that exercise over and over. Like half the morning was gone before you finished.

Well, it was definitely. We did an hour at the beginning, but then I stuck in another hour the next day because I thought, no, this is a muscle you need to strengthen. You cannot want something that you've never had before without stretching into the place to receive it. You can't say, I want something, I want this thing I've never had before, but I don't want to grow or change. Well, then you're not going to get it because that's part of what, that's what manifesting is. It's about growing into a frequency to receive the thing that you've never had before. But that means you have to change. You just can't get it because say the same.

Exactly, exactly. So, yeah. Okay. I love how first of all, I'm going back in my mind a little bit to when I was saying, okay, we go out and we take these external actions and you reframed it as the internal action has to happen first. Otherwise kind of like you said in the very beginning, it's like getting up and moving away or just leaving the job or just et cetera. Right. So that internal landscape is where the modifications begin. That sort of overflows then into your external actions and the things that you're actually doing. Right.

Yeah, yeah. If you're.

I just want to get precise on that.

Yeah.

If you make sure I got. Got it right.

Right. So the person who's, you know. And again, this is a made up person. The person who feels invisible, that's a core wound. Invisible. And then I feel sad and then I withdraw. So the first thing is to take that, whatever I normally do and do the opposite of that. So instead of withdrawing when I get triggered, you speak up, you ask questions.

Yeah.

You get curious, you do the opposite of whatever your normal reactions. That's a very small, easy shift. Not. It's not easy.

Right.

It's simple to understand. It's not easy Right. But it's actually being able to get over just saying, hey. And I have tools where people can learn to do that. So you know, everything from a couple's dialogue and a safe conversation script that you can use with somebody. So you're not just going in blind to, you know, lots of different way that feelings and needs list. So you can say it in a way that takes responsibility for you. Because the worst thing you can do when you get triggered is to turn around and blame somebody else. Well, you made me mad. It's like, well, that's not. Your wound is in you, not in them. They were the mirror.

Yeah.

Don't shoot the messenger. They're the mirror. Trust me. It's never about them. It's always about you.

Yeah. And when you say, you know, you do the hard thing, and immediately your brain rewires and says, oh, that doesn't feel hard anymore. Huh. I guess I can do that again based on this new experience. I know being an entrepreneur myself, one of the things I taught myself years ago was, if there's a hard thing you have to do today, do it first. Very first thing. Because if you don't, that thing settles in you and it weighs on you. It's the email that you can't quite send yet or the conversation you can't have. And the hard thing becomes bigger and bigger and bigger. Whereas the minute you take care of it, poof. You've now just changed the equation. You've moved onward. You've eliminated all of the stress over it, essentially.

Yeah. No, it's great.

I can see that as a form of healing. Like, if there was a hard thing you can do internally, instead of saying, I can't, I'm not ready yet, I can't. Well, let's just try a little bit of it. Right? Let's just try a little bit of it. Get it done first. Let's go from there. So, yeah, I can see. I can see an analogy there pretty well.

Yeah. Well, it's beautiful. I agree. I think that that's a very illogical way to handle it, too, because then it doesn't distract you from the other things that you're doing. And again, like I said, that action list of what people are to do because you have to change your behavior. The behavior. And it's. You know, for a long time, I was all about the subconscious mind. And the subconscious mind absolutely still runs your show. But after years of hypnosis and different kinds of healings and blah, blah, blah, and that's all still very worthy it's if we don't change the computer, if we don't change that 12% of what you interpret and the stories that you tell yourself, then I find that all the subconscious work takes a lot longer because you're still interpreting a situation and in a, in a smaller way or in. With only so much information. And part of what I want people to do is learn other things. When, you know, I do this, the three reasons why talk therapy is ineffective. And I go through this list of inter, like things factors that influence interpretation. And I think they're like 20. And I know that's like a short list, but there are 20 factors of that will influence how I will look at something and make it mean something and, and therefore have feelings about it. And you look at the same thing and have a different interpretation and then different feelings and then act differently. So if we can't for a second just take a broader perspective that just because I'm looking at something and telling a story, that doesn't mean it's true. In fact, I can tell you most of the time it's not true. But we, we use these beliefs and these interpretations as benchmarks. Everybody else is in agreement and that it's reality and it's not reality, it's our interpretation. So until we can change the way we look at things. It's Wayne Dyer's quote, when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. You have to learn. Again, another reason why I talk therapy isn't effective because I don't know anybody who's getting you to look at things differently from many different levels or perspectives. And I'm giving people tools and tools and different ways to interpret things. So you have different filters and you're not just stuck with the same. This means that. Well, does it?

Yes. Yeah. What do you think? I think this is a really good question to kind of wrap up this whole line of, you know, discussion. Do people ever fully heal? I mean that for us, it's like we want to reach a state where we can say, I am completely healed of this. This is no longer a pattern, this is no longer a disruption. Do you think that's possible or do you think we're kind of always in continuous here?

Well, a little bit of both. So I had a client in the three month program that I did last year that I assume even though, I mean massive transformation happened with those people in that program, I just felt like it wasn't enough time for integration. I. My expectations set on. I've been Doing six month programs and they're so much more effective than three. But we had had in the very beginning a conversation about something that he'd been holding on to for years about his dad. And his dad had died and was angry at his dad and man, did that play out in some violent and just crazy ways. I mean jail and addiction and the whole nine yards and, and he had gone through the 12 step program and you know, but it wasn't enough. I mean he was in it and he was sober, but it was like he still had all the same feelings. Right? So now his addictions control. So be clear everybody. If you're, you know, someone has drugs or alcohol addictions or substance abuse, they normally don't heal that thing in the 12 step program. They just switch out. Whatever the thing is, it could be, it could be look healthy like exercise or bodybuilding or right, like, but, or control. And most of us have control addictions. So we are in the program and for him, and he didn't have a sag moon, but I think it was a cancer or Pisces with a cancer moon. But he had, you know, he told the story and I heard the story and I said stop. And I gave him a different story. I pointed out what I knew and I gave him a couple different tools. And all of a sudden, I mean in that moment his entire past had changed. He went from looking at his dad from the viewpoint of that my dad didn't love me to all the ways my dad loved me that I couldn't see before. And so all of the pain in his heart that he'd been holding onto and acting out from for 30 plus years turned to love and appreciation and gratitude. And in an instant when he changed the story and saw from a different perspective. So do I believe it's possible? Absolutely. Is it going to happen on every subject? Of course not. We're human. We're constantly evolving and expanding. But it's, it's again, it's like graduating from school. You don't just go to school for one year or one day. You're continuing going through school to learn different subjects. Subjects and different things. I don't know why we stop at grade 12 and then we go to college for only four years because we're in life school and life school is going to continue to show you the lessons you need to learn to get to the next level of what you want to manifest. Because again, you can only manifest where you are. So if we, if we have an endpoint which we don't we have an end point of where we are, then we have an end point of. This is as much as I'm going to allow in, but if I want to allow in more, I got to keep growing. And it doesn't have to be painful and doesn't have to be. It's reality. You're either growing because you're conscious of life and conscious of what's going on, or you're looking to just sort of, like, slide by and think you can still be peace and joy. And I think that we work as hard as you want to work. If you want something that you don't have, you can grow in a way that you enjoy. And again, I think that the reason why people don't like this healing conversation is because they're afraid of feeling pain. They're afraid of feeling discomfort. Telling you that it's either discomfort and the growth of the. Of think of it orgasmically, right? The. Not that having an orgasm is uncomfortable, but there's this tension. There's a tension. There's a tension and then this explosion of like. Of beingness that feels so amazing. Well, it's the same thing with growth. So same thing with anything you want can be looked at as hard or uncomfortable. So it's the pain of staying the same and not getting what you want, or the slight discomfort you may have to get to. To feel better and more joy and more peace and more love and more abundance than you ever have in your entire life. You cannot get there without passing through. You know, having a baby, you can't pass through. You can't have a baby without some kind of discomfort happening, whether it be C section or going through, you know, your vagina. So it's the same thing. Growth is the same thing. For me, it's a beautiful experience that. That will have its, you know, bumps in the road, but that's what we're here to do on this life. School is experience. All of it.

Yeah. 100%. Well said. Fabulous interview. My. My brain is just struggling to take in all these concepts. I'll be thinking about it much later. I'll be thinking, gosh, what is my core wound? What should I be doing about this? I bet a lot of people are pondering this, like, strangely motivational, like, oh, my God, now I can. I need to find this thing. It's like looking for the biggest radish in the garden. It's going to change everything. So, jj, thank you so much. If you guys want to hear more from jj, she's got, like, an amazing number of podcasts, Spirit, purpose and energy is the one that I found first of hers. I really encourage you guys to, to look at that one. What else do you think is like a really good next step resource for anybody who wants to like me, go, oh, I'm gonna look at this more. There's something here.

Well, I have two free webinars on my website that you can go to. And the first one is the three reasons why talk therapy is ineffective. So and I give that tool that I talked about, the feelings and knees list with the paper that I'm holding that you can't see because this is not video, but somewhere you can see.

Hi, there is a paper, I swear.

But you get the download and you can do the exercise and at least start like I'm giving you a free tool. So if you go do the three reasons why talk therapy is ineffective, you're going to get this free tool and you'll at least be able to start looking at your life through a different lens that gets your needs met. Because the bottom line is any, any negative emotion that you're feeling is because there's a need that's not being met or the perception of a need that's not being met in your life. And so I'm giving you the tool to literally get it met so you can move on and feel happy. So that's the first one. And then there's also the how emotions affect healing and disease. So that's also a free webinar on my website. So it's jjanes.com and of course, yes, spirit, purpose and energy. And you know, I, I'm doing some ads myself now too on Instagram and Facebook. And somebody, some negative person came on and said, well yeah, cause you're going to sell me some expensive thing that I can't afford. I really hate practitioners that don't care. And I thought I have over a thousand episodes of free content for you that literally someone came on my fourth hundred episode who's been listening to me entire time and said, anyone can go back from episode one to 400 and they will be a different person on the other side of that. So I have a ton of free content. You'll. It would take you years to go through it, but please have at it and search out whatever that you need. And if you need more than what you can find, reach out and let me know.

Wonderful. And I'm sure we all will. Thank you so much. Jj, this has been fabulous. I just love how you marry psychology and spirituality. I mean, and and personal empowerment. It's. Oh, it's my, it's my, it's my thing. Here's somebody else just go off on. It's like I'm floored listening the whole time. So I think our audience will be too. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Well, there we have it. I hope you really enjoyed that interview with JJ Flanes as again one more time. You can visit her podcast Spirit, Purpose and Energy or her website, jjflizanes.com until next time. I will see all of you again. Lots of love and hugs and get ready for the next episode of Flow Dreaming. Still kind of woo woo. Hey friends, I just want to point you in the direction of a couple of resources that might just light up your day. First, I have an app, it's called Flow Dreaming for meditation and manifesting and it has hundreds of flow dreams and playlists that you can use download Enjoy to start start sculpting these energies of your life now. Second, there is a YouTube channel for flow Dreaming. I know. Who'd have guessed the best thing you can find on that channel aside from. Also, this podcast is a tutorial. It teaches you how to Flow Dream. I'm right there on the screen with you, leading you through several beautiful and gorgeous flow dreams that we do together. So go check it out. Look up flow dreaming on YouTube and have a good time. Enjoy yourself with these beautiful free resources and if you feel the urge, reach out to me. I am always available summerlowdreaming.com and I'll help you and together we'll discover what maybe a perfect personalized Flow Dreaming program for you could be like. To find out how to do that, just go visit my website website flow dreaming.com until next time. Love to you all.