BONUS: The Nature of the Soul with Kevin Carton

What's your soul like? Like your real soul, your essence, your inner being, your higher self, something that was gifted to you in the beginning of creation. We all have these thoughts on what our soul actually is, why we have it, what is it actually supposed to do for us. If it was an organ in your body, we would be crazy curious about it. But so far the soul continues to be kind of ephemeral and drifty for many of us. That's why today I have a special guest on Kevin Carton who is going to dive into the nature of our soul and we're going to move things from a traditional kind of answer to something very much more modern. If you're curious about your soul, stay with me. Here we go is just what it sounds like, an escape into the world of woo. Also a ride into you and how to feel happier, wiser and more self aware in every way. It's your ultimate journey into personal growth and inner power. We'll explore ideas like how your energy self influences the kinds of opportunities you encounter, or how your personal growth can drive your business growth, or even how that feeling of being stuck is really always coming from something else. We just have to figure out what. That's right. We're a dash of woo woo. A sprinkle of self care, a heap of problem solving and pattern busting, and a giant cup of encouragement. We're going to relight so much passion, purpose, self love and confidence in you that you practically stagger. I'm Summer McStravik, your host and welcome to Flow Dreaming. Still kinda woo woo. Before we dive in, just a little bit more about Kevin. So I was privileged to be on his podcast since science and spirituality. You can look it up. Episode number two one seven two seventeen. We had a fabulous conversation and he goes into those philosophical places that I just love to cruise around in. And it is a gift to be able to really go out there and seek like that. And I just, I just so loved our conversation. I invited him onto my show and so we're here to talk about the soul. Like I just told you, a little background though. Kevin Carton, he specializes in empowering people to discover and live their soul's purpose. His podcast, like I mentioned, Science and spirituality has over 1.2 million downloads. So he kind of knows what he's talking about. He's a speaker, teacher, coach, and he's helped hundreds of people trust themselves and God more deeply so they can make their unique impact on expanding consciousness in this world and perhaps others. So without further ado, put your thinking hat on. Or just be lulled by the sound of our musings as we go in deep about why we have a soul, what it does for us, and why we should possibly be listening a heck of a lot more to it. Kevin, lovely to see your face again and hear your voice for those of us who are just listening. How are you?

I'm good, Summer, how are you?

Great. We're just kind of plowing into this new year going faster than faster than ever. So I would love to talk with you today about one of your favorite subjects, your favorite topics, what obsesses you, if you will, the soul, the being that we call the soul. So we can talk about it from a practical standpoint, from a very spiritual and high end. Wherever we drift is where we'll go. So I've already told people a little bit about you, but I want you to tell people a little bit about you, like how you got involved in this science and spirituality and this obsessiveness with what is our soul and how do we follow it.

Right. I'd be happy to share. So you mentioning some practical ways, what we're going to talk about in terms of the soul and how we are spiritual beings having a human experience, that is really where my entering into this world of science and spirituality began because I went to school to get my doctorate in pharmacy. So very mainstream left brained western medicine path. And I chose that because I love science, I still do. But as I got into that industry and started, I was about three and a half years in when I started working into my schooling. When I got into a pharmacy, I was working as an intern as part of my program. And I worked there for several months. And I started to see more and more that the people who are coming back and receiving their medications month after month, they weren't doing much better than they were maybe five, six months ago when I first saw them. And that I started to realize in this like small little epiphany, like what is actually going on. And it seemed like more and more that I actually looked at what we were doing in pharmacy. It seemed like we were treating symptoms rather than the underlying cause of people's illnesses, diseases, their, the, the things that were going on in their life that they wanted to change. And I also chose that path because I wanted to make a difference in people's lives. And, and while I to this day do agree that pharmaceutical medicine does help, it doesn't really heal. And so that's what started me questioning on my own path, like what am I Doing here, what would I love instead? And that honestly left me in this place. Kind of a darkness, dark state. I would call it like a dark night of the soul. Because I didn't know what I wanted, any wanted anymore. Uh, but I knew that there was something more because there was, there was a feeling inside of me that there's gotta be some other way to help people and actually feel like I, I'm serving a purpose with what I'm doing. And so long story short, after six, seven months of really questioning my path, I decided to not continue to get my doctorate. I graduated with a four year degree and said goodbye. But I didn't really know exactly what was next for me.

But.

But there's an age old saying that when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And my first mentor and teacher did appear and her name is Mary Morrissey. And so she just riveted my attention when I first heard her speak about how we all have thoughts, emotions and behaviors, but we are not those thoughts, emotions or behaviors or even our physical body that we are more than that. And I had some conceptual understanding of that because I grew up Catholic and went to Sunday church every Sunday. And there was talk of that, but it wasn't as clear and precise. And then had some backing of scientific research that showed that yes, we are more than these things. And the psycho, the psychology approach as well as psychotherapy. And because Mary in her background, she was a counseling psychologist before she ever went into these more spiritual approaches to helping people in their life. So it riveted my attention and that really is what began this whole journey of discovery and viewing life from a spiritual lens. And that's been 10 years now at the recording of this. So it changed my life.

Yeah. They say that the root of illness is not necessarily in the body. So you come from this classical upbringing of pharmaceuticals and Catholicism, you know, very established and sciency traditional, how else can I say it? A very normal upbringing. Right, right. Not in this world. This the woo woo and spiritual at all. So at a certain point you, your path forked and you began, you know, to what? Take the road less traveled. We're going to throw in all the references today. So here you are discovering what is the root of illness? How does the non physical self play into it? Or the soul self. And maybe we could talk about what do you think a soul actually is?

It's a great question.

It's a big question.

It is a big question.

Do your best.

I will. And I like to make it as simple as possible. I believe that that's who we really are. It's the simplest way I can put it. But we can unpack that more and more. But as I was mentioning before, that awareness and in psychology we call it metacognition or being the observer that just by the. By the very fact that you can notice what you have been noticing, notice that you can notice your thoughts or your body or your emotions or your behaviors. It's positive proof to me. And I've been on this journey of discovering, like, how do you access that more and more frequently in your life because it changes your life by means of that. So who we are really is a spiritual being is a soul. So I believe the soul is. You can call it a light. Like we are light, we are energy, we are love, we are consciousness. There's many different synonyms. But the soul, I think is an all encompassing word that we can use in the human language to give meaning or give some substance in this physical, tangible reality to what is going on in the invisible, intangible reality as who we are. And there's. There's interesting experiences that people have of like near death experiences or children or kids that are very young age, like 3, 4, 5 years old, talk about their past lives, like things like that. That to me seem like even more evidence that this is absolutely true, that we are more than just this physical body and our personality and our name. So the soul is who we really are, that is detached or is more inherently than anything that we can even point to or use our words to describe.

I'm thinking of a synonym, our essence. Yes, the essence. Yes, right. The distillation of us. Now this again to like contrast it to a more classical interpretation where the soul is a kind of scorecard. Right? You're racking up good points or you're racking up, you know, sins, and it all shakes out in the end. You've sort of expanded on that or moved away from that idea. The soul instead becomes something that leads you or propels you. Like, how would you describe that?

That's a great way of putting it. You know, I don't know if I've ever defined it in those exact words because I honestly, after many, many years and discovering my own ways of not only experiencing this, but then teaching it, I honestly forget that the more traditional viewpoint of a soul is like, yeah, like sins and like favor. Like heck, in Eastern tradition is. It's called karma. Right. Like, but in my experience it's more of, like you said, agree that it's something that does guide You, I mean, we speak of it in terms of say like following your heart, following, for example. Although now even more so, science has pointed to that the heart actually does communicate more with the brain than the brain communicates with the heart. But that, I believe, is a way in which our soul does come through is in the form of love, joy, happiness, and those kinds of more uplifting experiences. But you're right, it absolutely is a guidance system for us in this human journey. Because in my experience, and what I believe is that we are here as a soul, in this human experience, in this finite human experience, to go through experiences so that we can grow as a soul. A lot of people are focused on the growth in the human experience, in the human self, but that's. We're just vessels. This is just a vessel for us of who we really are as a soul to go through these human experiences that we can grow.

So if we think about where this leads, all these billions of souls growing, developing, collecting experiences and greater self awareness, like you mentioned, the ability to, you know, the definition of consciousness, the ability to recognize your own thoughts and reflect on them. Where do you think this leads? Okay, we're going straight to the big questions, apparently.

Let's do it.

Okay, ready?

I'm ready.

I'm always curious, like, what are the, the results, you know, that we're working through that other people have discovered? So what do you think?

I think it's us giving the oneness of life, God, source, spirit, the opportunity to experience individual life or having an individual experience and to learn whatever it is that we can learn that is about a more expansive life. Because that taking a scientific approach to the oneness of life, that if we look at anything in nature, from the macro of our galaxies and the universe at large to even the micro of say, a plant, like even just a blade of grass, what is that doing? It's simply expressing more and more life. It's wanting to grow. In our macro view, the galaxies, they're literally expanding at ever increasing rates. And there's actually, in the last 10 to 20 years, I think it was actually more so in the last 10 years. Their astrophysicists have now have new study, new research or evidence that our galaxy is expanding even faster than they had originally thought. So what is the nature of life? Expansion, growth. And so I think that we as souls coming into this human experience is just for the same purpose. Just we have unique purposes of growth and expansion. And we can see that in our human life and what we want more of or even healing and what we want less of, but it really is just for the growth and the experience of greater life so that God, source, spirit, the infinite can experience more of life itself and what it is to have an individual experience. Because God couldn't actually experience what it's like to be alive if God the Creator didn't create something.

Right. Little vessels of exploration.

Yeah.

I often say it's like I feel like a cell in God's body. Right. Just like I have a cell in my own body. We're all layered together, we're all part of one another. You know, the cells in my body are thinking of my body as its ecosystem. I am part of the ecosystem of Earth and Earth is part of the ecosystem of the galaxy and galaxy is part of the ecosystem of the universe, which is part of the ecosystem of all that is exactly. So yeah, very. I think you and I think along very similar lines in that case. So if we are here collecting experiences and awareness and expansion and we bring it right back down from the ethers or the heavens where we just were to our individual day to day lives, you wake up in the morning, you yawn, you have a glass of water, you start to do all the human stuff. How do you infuse the soul into a daily life like this? What is the practice? What's. What do you do?

Two of my favorite number one is meditation. It's classic, it's. I don't believe you can actually get around that of not, not that it's a need, but it's such a powerful tool to help you reconnect with who you are. Because as soon as literally as we open our eyes, we're thrusted into this human experience and our five senses start picking up on the environment and then our thoughts start to go and we're easily taken up by this physical experience, the forms around us and then the reflection of that in our mind and our heart and our emotions. So if we don't carve out time for us to connect with that part of us that is who we really are as a soul, then it's it over time it'll gradually slowly slip away out of our awareness. So at some point we forget that's who we are and we'll wake up maybe weeks later, a month later, even years. Some people go throughout their entire life and never know, but hopefully and I believe that we all do have opportunities to awaken, will awaken like oh my God, where did these last X amount of weeks, months, years go? Because I've been just living the same general Pattern. But what we want is obviously to grow, to expand, to change patterns. So that's the one Practice meditation. I rarely go a day without meditating, at least for 10 to 15 minutes. If I'm, like, really, like, time crunched and I woke up late or something like five minutes at the least. But then the second practice, even if you don't have a meditation practice and it doesn't call to you, the other tool is to use your breath. Because when you take a nice, deep breath, slow inhalation, slow exhalation, and just go within, you don't even have to close your eyes, but just feeling that ability to breathe, that automatically, even if you don't consciously think of it, but it does, at the very least, subconsciously connect you with who you are as a soul. Because we cannot breathe once on our own. And some people may argue with that, because we do have conscious control over our breath. It's a voluntary thing, but most often it's involuntary. We are being breathed by life itself. We're given this gift of life today, but the other way of viewing it is that our heart, we can't beat our heart once on our own. That's not something we can voluntarily control as easily as our breath. But notice how the breath moves right through that center point of our being, right at our heart. And again, we're given this gift of life. We're given an opportunity to live and to grow. So just taking a deep breath for me helps me reconnect with that truth of my nature.

Yeah. I wonder when you are experiencing this connection with your deeper self. Right. It's something that so many of us aspire to, and we find the different modalities, meditation, breath, and so on.

Right.

What is it really like when you do feel like I am in communication with my soul, Is it even describable in words? Or is it one of those things where you just have to, like, you know it when you know it.

Right. I think I agree. Yes, it is one of those things where you know when you know it. And it's. I think the description can pale in comparison to the actual experience, but I think words can do it justice to some degree that will help inspire us. Right. It's like, why would we even want to go through these sometimes arduous practices? Right. Like, sometimes I don't feel like meditating or sitting down and just actually doing nothing and focusing on my breath or, like, focusing my thought on just my breath or mantra for a certain period of time. But for me, the experience, I find, is the first word that came to my mind, Summer, was bliss. But another way of putting it is a. It's a relief. It's kind of a relaxing into just this. Like, I'm actually at a loss of words right now.

I knew I was gonna say, I don't know if you can put it in words. I don't know if I could put it in words, frankly.

Right. But I think the best is emotion. Like I said, is like that feeling of relaxation or relief that, yeah, there's nothing I need to do, nothing I need to be, and nothing I need to change. Just there's this isness of life and that I'm not alone as well. I think there's a good comfort in that, that there's. There's a presence there, there's a power that's with me.

So I have a strategic reason for asking that question. You talk a lot about living into your soul's purpose.

Yes.

I want to make sure that I really am in touch with my soul so that I'm really hearing its purpose. Right. If I don't feel I'm connected there, then every time I have an impulse to do something or experience something or become the next thing, I would question it. Is this really my soul's purpose? Is this my soul?

Right.

So that. That's the angle here. Like, getting to experience your soul self so that you can then begin to trust its guidance. Because, I don't know, in my own life, whenever I start not trusting, it means that there's some part of myself I'm not trusting or the outside world that I'm not trusting. And then I can't follow any kind of guidance. Does this make sense? Like, do you 100% see the.

Okay, yeah. The trajectory you're paving is exactly what I work with clients on. Because it's so easy to get lost in the mind chatter. Right?

Yeah.

And thinking like, well, again, the questioning. Or in other words, doubt. Is this my soul's purpose? Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? But that's all in the mind. And you know, our mind is a great tool. In fact, this is Einstein, to paraphrase, his quote, says that the mind, the intellect, the logic is a powerful tool. And our intuition is the sacred gift.

Yeah.

And so to know deeply. And that's. I believe our intuition comes from our soul self or comes from, like, guidance from the infinite, guidance from God or spirit, which we are intimately and one with, when we are knowing we. Who we are as a soul. Um, but yeah, it's. It's essential. And I want to say one of the thing reason why it's essential. And I'm glad that you're bringing this up because like I said, it's easy to get lost. And the reason why is because we all have programming. We've all been programmed from a very young age, which is necessary by the way, to actually even be human. We need programming. We need to learn how to pick up a fork and a knife and eat food. We need to learn how to play well with others. Walk. Yeah, exactly. We need to know how to love and not hurt others. So all the programming we got, whether it was good or bad, it just is. And we all have good programming, we all have bad programming. And it's our job to evolve that so that we can allow our soul self to shine through. It's like we're creating more and more of a clear channel for our soul self to be expressed in this human journey. So if we don't is the pitfall is that we eventually we inevitably end up expressing programming rather than expressing our soul.

Yeah, so that, that clarifies it. Because if I'm aware of what my soul self is and is yearning for and wanting, because I've reached in and tried to discover that, and then I began trusting what my soul self is wanting as opposed to saying, well, maybe that's not right for me, or maybe that's not my path or excuse me, all the programming, as you say, that gets in the way. The next question is this purpose thing that we're expressing, it feels like it's unique to all of us. We all have a unique purpose or do we have a collective purpose? Or how do I, how do I know what mine is?

How do I discover that it's actually a. Both end to what you had shared? We all do have a unique purpose, but we also all have a collective purpose together. It goes back to like, just to answer that first one or the, the most recent one, I just said collective purpose is to grow very simply, is to expand or in other words, love life more. Create a life that you love more and more. Because what the world needs is more love, more experience of love and togetherness so that there's more peace. That's just a more uplifting experience, no matter how you put it. So that's, I believe, what we're here for as a collective. But individually that can come in many, many different forms. And you mentioning it's unique, I like to say we all have a unique soul print. It's just as unique as our Thumbprint. I'm holding up my thumb here that scientifically there has not been one same thumbprint in the history of humanity. Scientifically. I mean right now Currently there are 8 plus billion people on the planet. We just crossed 8 billion in the last few years. And so there are over 8/7 billion unique thumbprints on the planet. And then that has carried throughout time as well. And so we all have a unique soul print as well. And that sole purpose comes through based on what you feel called most to do. And it's usually the thing that keeps coming back to you. It might not line up logically with what maybe you know, again programming had you think that you should be doing or for either work or maybe in a certain relationship or how you're like treating yourself and your body and how your health is going, what you're doing for your in your free time. Like we all have these different aspects of life, but the purpose comes through as what really most uniquely calls to you. Because some people like to say that purpose is like oh, what are you doing for humanity? I don't agree with that. I think purpose can come through in any area of life. Some people, their purpose is to be the healthiest version of themselves. That's it. Like they'll have a traditional 9 to 5 job, make decent money, they'll be fine there. Not really care much about, you know, starting a business or writing a book or finding out their unique purpose there. Like that actually doesn't call to them. But what really is called to them is like I want to find out what my physical body is capable of becoming. That's my purpose. And that feels most like it gives them most life. But it's the funny thing, right that again programming looking at society is like oh like you got to have like, you know, a great job, like love your work, make tons of money. It's like not a lot of people care about that. And so that's okay. Like you don't have to just buy into the programming or what is being sold and marketed to us in the world. That's why it's again so important to first connect with who you are as a soul. Meditate, work through with your breath and notice your programming so that you could really acknowledge what your purpose is and it could come through in many, many different ways.

How do you know when you are not in your purpose?

Let's go back to the impulse of life I shared in the macro and the micro. It's for growth, right? What is growth? In what do we experience when we Feel like we're growing. What does that feel like? It's expansion or it feels better. We even may say it just feels lighter or I mentioned before, uplifting. So it's this, all these different words that describe this experience of going upward or going outward. Like there's this again, expansion. So when we are not living into that, there is the opposite. It's just contraction, going inward, hiding out, just not feeling good enough. Like those different experiences in the human journey are clear signs that we are not fully living in our purpose.

A sense of retraction.

Yes, exactly right.

Pulling in. And I'm just thinking about the material ways that that plays out in our lives. Feeling stuck, feeling burned out, feeling like we've hit a wall, feeling like we're with the wrong people in the wrong family.

Right.

All of those are types of resistance, or I would call them negative emotions that come up as a response.

Right.

But those are cues to what? Turn around, find, find your direction. What is the number one thing you would tell people to do? To start with that, like when you're working with somebody, what do you, I mean, you obviously mentioned meditation and breath work, but what else is there?

Oh, it's doing some of the most difficult work in the world is acknowledging what you really long for and acknowledge what you're discontent about, what is not going well in your life. But key, the key here is from a place of awareness that you're not judging, that you have to accept it. Which is, that's what I'm saying is the most difficult because we're programmed in our human journey to resist or not focus on what's wrong or just, oh, just focus on, you know, what you want to create. Well, yes, but the first step is getting very, very clear on where you are right now. The problem is actually not. People don't know where they want to go, what they want to create. The problem really is just that they're not aware of the current paradigm or the current belief system that is running their life and is the pattern in which they're viewing the world. It's like we have these glasses on and they're not rose colored, but they're like they're dark. Like they're dark colored glasses. And we view the world or ourselves from this very limited point of view as, oh, this is not good, I'm not good. And so we just resign to that viewpoint of life, not realizing that we are the ones who put on those glasses. So the most difficult work is acknowledging and accepting and not getting sucked into that despair of oh, woe is me. And oh man, this is not going to change. Which is difficult when maybe a pattern way of living has been there for months, years, heck, sometimes even decades.

Yeah, I always find too in my work that's one of the first areas to open up. You don't know what you don't know, so let's go find what you don't know. And for me, that's always kind of an exciting journey both inside myself and with others. Because you're asking people to allow themselves to consider different ways of thinking that they've never perhaps felt permitted to think before or never felt validated for thinking about, or they were put down or told, you're too small, you're too old, you're too ugly, you're not good enough, you know, so stay within the structures that we've given you. Those are the ones that have worked for us, therefore they should work for you. And the moment you kind of free yourself to say, oh, wait a minute here, you know, life is a limited time experience. Maybe I should just find something I want to believe in that makes me feel good right now. You know, there's a lot of religions that would say, I don't know about that, but I think a lot of religions also have that at the core. Right. You are supposed to feel good, you know, that's the original intention of many.

Agreed.

Well, oh my goodness, I could just keep going on and on, like talk for an hour and a half about this, this soul. It's one of my little passions to philosophy philosophically. You and I, you teach people, you take people on a journey of kind of discovering theirs. You put together tools, you have a program for that. Do you want to just share for people who want to follow up and they're, they're feeling quite curious and intrigued.

Yes, be happy to. So simple way of connecting with me and my work. And you are. On our podcast, me and my brother have a co. We co host a podcast called Science and Spirituality. We talk about this all the time, almost every episode because it's the basis or the foundation of anything else we share. But other than that, as a coach, I do have programs. I have an event. So my event is a one day event, virtually at least right now. It's one day might be expanded to beyond that, but it's called Soul Builder Live. And that is a journey that I take people on. Anyone who attends journey to tap more deeply into who they are as a soul, remember that more frequently in their human journey and then go through the process of Getting clear of like where they're at in their life right now, what they would love instead, what's the vision? And how to believe in yourself so that you can consistently follow up action to actually create that change and grow into that version of yourself that you want to become. So that one day event is some of my favorite things to do. And I host that about three, sometimes four times a year and go to soulbuilderlive.com to find out more. And then as you mentioned, yes, I do have programs to help clients through this too and I have many different programs I offer.

But yeah, that sounds fascinating. I was just thinking that that's going to help people answer the question. You don't know what you don't know. Well, we're going to go discover some things you haven't thought or seen about yourself before. Let's go figure it out. One last thought that popped in kind of randomly, even though we're, we're reaching the end here is when you start living this soul driven or soul fueled life, there's an assumption built in that you will be supported in it. Can you just wrap up on that idea? Because I think that's the clincher for a lot of us. If we knew we were fully supported, we would all do it without a second thought. But obviously we don't all feel like we would be supported. Right. That's why we hold back. What do you think about that? Are we supported? What is that?

Yes and no. It's another one of those answers, the no part about it, which is the more commonly known. We're not supported because when we live from our soul, it's going to challenge a lot of the ways in which we've lived up until now. And many of those ways in which we've lived are so normal and accepted by others, family, friends, even a significant other, children. And those patterns are going to be challenged. Like if you start living in a different way, it's like, hey, I'm going to take a half an hour in the morning every morning to now meditate. Wait, but what about our time together? It's like we're talking about significant other. Or like when I chose to leave pharmacy, that, that felt like a really strong soul driven decision. But my parents were livid. They were so mad because, and I would honestly, I understand where they're coming from because they supported me through college for most of it with their hard earned money and so, and they were thinking that, oh, I'm making a mistake in my life, but it felt right to me. And so you have to really start to know more deeply and connect more deeply with again who you are and be supported by your own voice, by your own inner voice, and reminding yourself of you're going toward a life that is what you would love, what is expansive for you. And over time, it may or may not really help others. Like over a year, it was like a year or two later that my parents ended up being proud of me for the decision I made. So it helped them realize that, you know, life is not this linear path, although they knew that to some degree as well, but they really thought I was making a big, big mistake. But, yeah, anyway, the other way of being supported, though, because we all are inherently supported. That's where my yes answer came from. The no is again, in human form, with our human relationships, it's most likely that there's going to be some pushback, but we are always supported by the infinite, by God, by source, by spirit, because that is literally the driving force for growth in all things, and it's all one. And so you answering yes to that impulse of life within you is inherently being supported by life itself, by source, by spirit. And that usually shows up in ways of synchronicity as you start to live more in alignment with what you feel called to do.

Yeah, that is a beautiful answer and a beautiful wrapping up to this conversation. A beautiful conversation. I just feel kind of light and lifted and I hope everybody listening right now, you're. You're considering like, oh, the soul stuff. Yeah. Oh, wait a minute, hold on. That's a lot more central than I was thinking. Because often personal growth does go down a rabbit hole of just getting better for ourselves, you know, drinking more green smoothies and, you know, getting more money in the bank. And we forget maybe a larger goal of personal growth is to discover the entire being, the entire person.

Yes.

The essential self, the soul. Thank you, Kevin. That was beautiful. Again, I keep using that word, but I do, I feel beautiful right now. You're beautiful. All right, so again, like Kevin mentioned, you can find him at his website also kevincarton.com and the one that you mentioned earlier, what was that? Dream Builder. No, Soul Builder.

Soul Builder.com Soulbuilderlive.com Soulbuilderlive.com if you want.

To dig into that. And of course, please go listen to his podcast, Science and Spirituality. We had a wonderful and deep conversation together on that as well. So thanks so much, Kevin.

Which, in case anyone wants to listen to your episode, let me give the exact number it was. Episode number 217 because we have all those of ours listed so that you can go back to it whenever you. You find this episode.

Ooh, numerologically, that is a 10 or a 1. I love it.

Nice.

All right, take care and we'll talk again, I'm sure.

Sounds good.

Mmm. Delicious. I keep using that word. It does. It just fills my soul's tummy with, I don't know, higher thinking. Sometimes we need to just go into those spaces and question and reflect. Like we were saying, you don't know what you don't know and asking ourselves questions. Re examining set beliefs is often a way to break into that next I don't know state of awareness. So I want to give you a couple more references, places you can go if you like this kind of conversation. One of them is to visit VenusAndrecht.com also known as God is always happy.com Venus is my mom. And about a decade ago, or maybe more. Oh, I've lost track. She put out a beautiful set of. Well, it was a cd, but now just downloadable audios called God is Always Happy. And these largely reflect on the nature of the soul and the nature of God, the purpose and point of this kind of exploration that the universe may be doing of itself. And I narrate, which I felt very privileged to do. But it will also get you really thinking, get your mind spinning. The other thing is the book that I never really talk about, sort of like the red headed stuff upchild. It's called Creative Flow Dreaming. It was my second book and it's really filled with a lot of philosophy about flow and why we're here and thoughts about where we're going, why we're all even doing this experience. It's underpinned by many of my own life experiences and the work that I've been doing with many thousands of people. And in it I go into what, what are we, why are we here? The big questions. So if you're curious at all, you can also find that book, Creative Flow Dreaming on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, your independent bookstore. Wherever, wherever you want to go, grab it. But they're both really good resources to delve deeper into this quiet little passion of mine, the nature of who we actually are. With that, I'm gonna give you guys all kinds of love and I hope to see more of you in the Flow Dreaming Mastermind. Just gonna put that out there. Yes, it is my new program. Yes, you can join anytime and you can leave anytime, but you'll get access to 37 of my courses and 45 plus flow dreams. It's a membership and I just thought it was time to put everything in one big pot and stir it and say look, go and get what you need from this. Plus we do these crazy amazing live events every month with me. I take you through all kinds of ritual and Flow and Flow Dreaming and manifestation. It's pretty good stuff. Anyway, go to my website flowdreaming.com you can find so much more about it. There's and I hope to see your bright beautiful face at some time in a future meeting. With that. My love to you all. Take care. Maybe you remember one brilliant thing. My Summertime Manifesting Challenge. Well, I wanted a way to keep that energy going all year round. That's how I ended up creating the Flow Dreaming Mastermind. This is different than any other program I've offered. For one thing, it is packed with teachings. Not only do you get immediate access to 36 courses and all the accompanying Flow Dreams and worksheets, but you and I will get to Flow Dream together each month. Live each month I plan and a special event. A Flow Dreaming session coinciding with the full moon or other potent day. And we gather to create huge manifesting energy. Think of it like a series of special events and you're invited to every single one as a Flow Dream Mastermind member. A Flowy if you will. And best of all, it's affordable. Costs as much as taking a family of four to Applebee's each month. No kidding. You'll get to connect with like minded souls around the world for Flow Dreaming parties. Joyful Energy Cleansing Flow Dreaming. Some woo woo rituals that show a little of my witchy side and just a heck of a good time. Because the lighter and brighter you are, the lighter and brighter your life is. Check out the Flow dreaming mastermind@flowdreaming.com because our next special event and party is just around the corner.