https://www.listennotes.com/e/f4d5ab701f4642b386c9956f7bd3ccba

Today we're diving deep into the world of psychoastrology where you'll get to see what the effect of one tiny planet comet called Chiron has in your life. Yep, Chiron holds the wounds, the wounds that we want to heal. And you'll learn how to find out where your Chiron lies in your chart and what core wounds it tends to create there. Our episode today is is all about healing and I want to invite you in. Flow Dreaming still kinda Woo Woo is just what it sounds like. An escape into the world of woo. Also a ride into you and how to feel happier, wiser and more self aware in every way. It's your ultimate journey into personal growth and inner power. We'll explore ideas like how your energy self influences the kinds of opportunities you encounter, or how your personal growth can drive your business growth, or even how that feeling of being stuck is really always coming from something else. We just have to figure out what. That's right. We're a dash of woo woo. A sprinkle of self care, a heap of problem solving and pattern busting, and a giant cup of encouragement. We're going to relight so much passion, purpose, self love and confidence in you that you practically stagger. I'm Summer McStravik, your host and welcome to Flow Dreaming. Still kinda woo Woo. My guest today that will be exploring all things Chiron with is named Lisa Tahir and she's actually a licensed therapist, the host of All Things Therapy podcast, an artist and the author of the Chiron Effect, healing our core wounds through astrology, empathy and self forgiveness. Not only does she blend traditional therapy with astrology as well as other modalities, but her work has been endorsed by his Holiness, the Dalai Lama. You can find her at her website, nola.com n O L A and with that, let's get this interview rolling. Lisa, Lisa, welcome to Flow Dreaming. So kind of woo woo. How are you?

So I am awesome. It's so nice to be with you again after I had you on my show discussing Flow dreaming and, and the beautiful paradigm that you see life through. I am awesome.

Wonderful. And for everybody, again, that's All Things Therapy. You should look up that podcast, it's excellent. And let's dive in here. Okay, so you have a beautiful focus on, well, being a therapist, but you have this great book, the Chiron Effect right here and it's all about what you'd call psychoastrology. Would that be a good way of discussing what is that? What is that?

You know, simply, I love words, Summer and Psychoastrology is simply in my thought processes, where your personal psychology, your upbringing, the way that the paradigm, the lens, the glasses you see life through, where that intersects your natal astrology, your birth chart, astrology. And specifically in my work, this has to do with the astrological placement of a minor planet named Chiron. C H I R O N. And this placement is very therapeutic for us to understand because Chiron reveals an area of our thought patterns where we might have some limit limiting beliefs, thought patterns where we might feel vulnerable up to and including core wounding, when there's been experiences like trauma, sexual abuse, domestic violence, and the meanings we make about ourselves that cause us to live less joyfully than what I believe we're intended to live. And we make these glass ceilings, so to speak, either that others have said to us or that we say to our own minds. And I want to help us really release those so that we can be joyful.

So how did, how did Chiron get this special quality to it? What is it about Chiron? It's rules? It sounds like most of our power leaks and scarcity thoughts. Why did, why is, why did, why did the universe kick it over to Chiron?

Poor thing. I love that question. So no one's ever asked that. It's just interesting that in astronomy, Chiron is designated as both a minor planet and a comet, I believe the only designation of that type. It was discovered in the 80s and named Chiron, referencing the Greek centaur Chiron, the healer and founding father of medicine, of therapy, of botany. And we see a reference to Chiron whenever we go to the doctor, at least in America. The staff of medicine, the two snakes around the staff, Chiron gave that to Asclepius, whom he tutored. And so this placement of Chiron is really all about healing and it's all about how the places where we have been wounded, where we feel vulnerable, are actually where our message often comes from, what we become, what we start to teach, who we actually can embody. Once we realize these aren't deficiencies or negative bad things about us, they're gifts that help us have, I find more empathy. The key to discerning that is through self forgiveness and through empathy. And when we really stop trying to hide or shame ourselves for feeling these certain ways, like we're not good enough in patterns of people pleasing, for example, with Chiron in the astrological sign of Aries points to when we neglect ourselves because we were neglected. Chiron in the sign of Taurus, Taurus speaks to that neglect. And one's Upbringing and you might neglect yourself emotionally, spiritually, physically. Chiron in the sign of cancer speaks to abandonment that you experience an abandonment that caused you to believe you're unworthy, for example. And when we really lean into these parts of ourselves and tenderly and gently, we can start to feel stronger and more put together and have more confidence in ourselves and in life.

Yeah. I was looking up in your book of course, to find out where is my Chiron placed. And maybe you could explain to everybody how to find where theirs is placed short of looking up the diagram. But in my case it was interesting to see it in Aries.

Aries, interesting.

I was like the whole generation of the Gen Xers are self sufficient, had to do everything on our own. It's become kind of an Internet meme. It's funny and it's like, well, yeah, I guess a whole generation does kind of get impacted by the certain lengthy transit, if you will. Yes. So how does a person find theirs and what does it mean that we do have these sort of generations all with the same core wounds?

Well, what that speaks to is that that minor planet, Comet Chiron moves very, very slowly in outer space. It has an elliptical orbit, an odd elliptical orbit. It was the first of the Centaur class and astronomy, therefore being named after Chiron the Centaur for that reason, it takes about eight years, two to eight years for Chiron to orbit these planets and go through the 12 astrological signs. So that's why Chiron and Aries. I share that with you as well. Being born in the 70s, yet for me the house placement due to our time of birth might be different. And that's how this vulnerability slash core wounding, when you've experienced deeper traumas like abuse and neglect, where they show up, if it's in your self esteem versus in the workplace or in your romantic relationship. And you ascertain this by entering. I have an interactive website. Through my website you can find them other places as well. But you can enter your date of birth, your place of birth, and if you have it, your time of birth and it will generate your Chiron placement as well. As in my book, there's a chart. And so for you and I, with this placement of Chiron in the sign of Aries, we've had to heal ourselves from things like performance based achievement and love, valuing ourselves because of what we do. Has that been accurate for you Summer? Like really like, like sourcing our value and worth through our productivity, through our achievements. And while those are wonderful things, it can cause stress and even health problems. When that's the only way we're deriving our self esteem and value is having to do. Because we often don't allow ourselves to smell the roses of our own achievements and feel like we're worthy and good enough even if we never created another thing, which would be a hard one because we both like doing things of meaning and value. But it's learning that your meaning and value is just because of who you are in this world and in this universe. And what we do is like an outsource of the joy that we feel not having to do that, to feel like we deserve. And untangling, uncrossing those wires and even people pleasing patterns. Chiron and Aries reveals people pleasing patterns to really be amenable and go with the flow. And maybe sometime we not we don't want to, but we might want to avoid conflict and learning how to have, how to really be our authentic selves and speak our authentic voice with people.

Yeah, yeah, all of that rings true. Okay, so speaking of all of these, you're referencing core wounds and these areas where, like you said, people pleasing, etc. What is your understanding of a core wound? How do we get it? How do we go through it? What's it there for? And what are some examples? I know a lot of people have heard of core wounds, but I always like to. What's your understanding and interpretation?

My understanding and interpretation is when defining moments happen in our lives. And in my book, I walk you through a process of remembering both when you felt loved growing up and the meaning you made about yourself, and then the times you didn't feel loved or you were not loved and the meaning you made about yourself then. Because those meanings, those little micro decisions that we make perpetuate and cause ripples throughout our lives. And as an adult, for instance, when we've experienced childhood sexual abuse or neglect, we tend to feel like the world isn't safe. So we create a bunch of compensation methods. Being it to, you know, throw oneself into work because that's an area we can master and derive positive results. But we might not allow ourselves time to play or just be. Because the quiet might feel anxiety producing because growing up when it was quiet, it probably meant the other shoe was going to drop and something bad would happen. And so we might busy ourselves without learning how to really create peace. A core wound are those wounding moments that happen in the context of relationships through our lives. And for some of you, you didn't experience these traumas and I'm so glad that you didn't Experience abuse, trauma. And these are just areas of vulnerability. It's more like an ouch for you where you might have experienced something in a relationship that was, ooh, like, like touching, putting your hand on the hot stove. I use that analogy in my book. I'm never going to do that again. But you might kind of close yourself down to sharing your vulnerabilities or your innermost thoughts with others because they might reject you or criticize you and. And that keeps you from really expressing yourself. So for you, the healing might be starting with trusted loved ones and sharing some of the things you think and feel, knowing you're going to be accepted and. And, you know, figuring how you might want to be more authentic. I think we're really happy Summer when we're authentic. What do you think about that?

Oh, yeah. Authenticity and being able to express who you are and putting up. Sometimes people call it a healthy boundary, being able to say, no, for instance, or I need this and I'm worthy of having it. That all to me falls under the umbrella of authenticity.

Yes.

And yeah, we struggle to get that. I also love what you were saying about the busy, busy people. Another. Another very trendy thing right now is to identify yourself with adhd. And I think probably a lot of us have adhd, but one of the characteristics that's often talked about is we keep so busy that we don't have those quiet pause moments. Those quiet moments are very uncomfortable, and yet we can feel so overwhelmed that we end up freezing in place.

Right.

And I'm wondering if a lot of trends nowadays are actually related to some of these deeper core wounds or somehow overlapping or what's the word comorbidities for with one another.

Comorbidities, yeah. And then the judgments that we. We say to ourselves because of the things we've experienced. And in our culture, it's this messaging to just keep going, to not take the adequate time to really grieve a loss when someone passes away, for instance. Other cultures are so much more insightful at honoring the passing of. Of a loved one's life and making their transition. And in the US it's like to just keep performing and, you know, the woo, woo. The magic of life, I think, is found in these quiet moments when we're receptive to receive the ideas, the solutions we've been asking for. And it takes quieting our minds. I have a meditation in the book that I guide you through. I meditate daily. It's become like a sacred time to really receive from the universe. That's my Language, the insights, the awarenesses, the, the downloads of what to do and not to do. And we really. I encourage you listening to find those moments. And if you notice feeling anxious, as some of you were saying, inquire, what does this anxiety mean? Our emotions are information. They want to communicate with us. Ask what is this about? How come I'm in discomfort? Maybe it's because I'm mistaking this peacefulness for boredom and I'd like to change that. How do I find some enjoyment with peace and going on a walk without music, for instance, trying some new things and seeing what outcomes, what manifests in your emotions. If you're feeling happier, more centered, for example, and really play with doing different things in this way.

When you, when you start on this path, like of, you know, inner perception.

Yeah.

And you discover this is the wounded area, what are the first steps that you take people through to start to heal that is it the same for everybody?

How do, how do you begin a first step Summer? Yeah, a first step that I begin with that's consistent with everyone is the self empathy is really like, hey, like really asking oneself. And a tool that I use in my own life and offer others is when there's something you've been through that was painful and you didn't receive an apology, which I think any of us that have lived life, that's happened and it's kind of like a trigger. I see it as an unhealed, energetic attachment and it's kind of dormant and someone might step on it or we hear something that triggers it and we're suddenly in some, in some stress and some hyper arousal and we tend to try to move away from that so quickly instead of really giving oneself some healing. Like, you know, I'm just so sorry I went through that to ourselves. I'm just so sorry you went through that, Lisa. And speak your own name and really take a moment with your hands over your heart. Like, what did I need to hear from that person or come out of that situation? What did I really want to happen and what do I need to receive? And like really stay there with yourself until you feel in your heart an opening. And that's a process of self forgiveness, self empathizing. And maybe you're holding, you're critical of yourself because a part of you knew better or whatever we say to ourselves, it's okay. Like, we needed that experience somehow to bring us to more of what we want. I do believe. And if we can just really set aside the criticism incrementally and learn to receive the message and the information that wants to help us next time around and really just slow down with yourself. So I, I always start with empathy, Summer. And just a pause and some gentle loving talk to oneself.

Yeah. Inner forgiveness.

Yeah.

How, how do you know where you're at in your healing or your journey? You know, let's say I've identified. Okay, I know where my Chiron is. I know where all my stuff is hanging out. I'm being compassionate. But sometimes I feel like in personal growth we get on this endless hamster wheel. Like I'm healing and I'm still healing. I'll never be healed. And that almost becomes a detriment because we lose hope versus the people who think I'm completely healed. I will never have that again. How do you know where you're at and how do you interpret that?

Well, Summer, I was that person. I was in therapy as a client for 20 years while being a psychotherapist, a licensed psychotherapist. A lot of healing, a lot of insight and I wasn't happy. And that's when I started to hear Chiron in meditation. I was asking universe, where what is going on? That after all of this therapy and even clients of mine that are so intelligent, why are they and why am I still feeling some depression and anxiety? What is going on? And that's when I started to hear Chiron and research this, this, these thought patterns that I had around not being good enough and like this endless performance hamster wheel of achievement. And I, when I learned that's associated with Chiron and the sign of Aries, I could really let myself off the hook. Like, you know what this is? You're overperforming. And I want you to go, I want you to go hike, I want you to go to the beach, I want you to book time with friends, I want you to work less. And that was really a big ask Summer at first to really change the way I derive my self esteem. And I started to feel joy. I started to feel like everything I wanted worked out. I when I would just really lean into my joy. And I love Abraham Hicks. And that's been their message all along. Like joy is the key. And it never resonated until I kind of suspended for 30 days the way I did things to do a personal experiment of what brings me joy first. Because you might not know that I had to ask what brings me joy. And it's the littlest things like a walk in my local park. It doesn't have to be the big vacation and you want to find as many approachable, easy things that bring you some joy, peace, even neutrality. And that started to change my life Summer and I start helping people with that, like, okay, you know, to really put down, like you said, we can go endlessly on this personal growth and development journey without ever having the experience of it. And I want you to have the experience of healing, which is joy, which is peace. How do you see this? Because I know you speak about the same things.

Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking you're describing your emotional barometer, which is, you know, your so called spot or place it or level. I don't want to say level because that makes it sound like there's a, an A plus and an F you can be getting but your certain place in your healing journey based on the greater amounts of positive emotion that you're experiencing. And so you describe it as joy. I would just look at it in the view of I have fewer lack thoughts around this. I have fewer anxiety thoughts around this.

I like that.

I have fewer depression thoughts around this. I have more day to day contentment.

Contentment, yes.

This must be an indicator that I am healing and that I am definitely somewhere ahead and I'm getting in the.

Right direction for sure.

Until you reach the point where every single day you're feeling positive and, and the lack and the scarcity and the not good enoughs and the have to do mores and all the blame, shame, all that stuff just recedes.

It does, it turns down, yeah.

Especially in the areas where it's been most challenging for us. And some people, of course, it's relationships, others going to be money or your health or your body image and so on.

And contentment is the key word because we, we tend to want these peak point emotional experiences and it's wonderful when they happen. Yes, to all of them. And I think we can reside with more ease in contentment, which is really like the feeling of well being. And even though things are still unfolding in various areas of our lives, we know they are and we have that trust and expectation that it's working out. And that brings a lot of mastery to us about navigating life and finding, discerning our path and being able to handle and cope with the 70,000 thoughts a day we're thinking and not having to give air time to all of those and learning to choose to give more bandwidth to the thoughts we want to grow and less bandwidth to the thoughts we'd like to peter out. And that becomes an art and a science in itself to play with during Your day as thoughts arise and the feelings come about, do I have to give this my attention? And I would say no if it's causing you to feel badly. And what do I really want to happen? Is something somewhere. I'll ask myself in this situation, what do I really desire? And. And becoming very clear about what I want to experience it and just feeling that for a moment and then letting it go and being on to the next thing. Learning to use our mind as a tool.

And I totally agree with you. To go back to contentment. Highly underrated state of emotion. Yeah. I mean, even if you say the word contentment, people are like, yeah, yeah, content. Not great, not terrible.

But that's not contentment. Contentment is surety. Contentment is. That's not contentment. That side of this factor. It's a certainty that things are unfolding. You could even feel delight in that and some real pride and certainty and assurance, 100%.

You also mentioned that a lot of times people don't even know what their joy is. And when you said that you will give people exercises to just go relax and unhook from their need to constantly prove themselves. I give the exact same homework to some of my clients.

That's awesome.

It is the hardest homework they could possibly do. They're like, I'm so behind now. I didn't get it done now. I gave myself a time limit and then I just couldn't give myself any more. And I'm like, I bet you do that with vacations too, right? You can. Can have one week, but you can't have six. They're like, oh, I could never do six. Why not? Why did you give that limitation to yourself?

I love that.

Because we only give ourselves so much of it before we have to pull back and get back to the other thing. But that leads to that point where you actually don't know what your joy is. And I think that's something a lot of us forget. We assume we know until we try to take this detox, if you will, and detox from the productivity and the trying to keep the self worth going or whatever it may be. And just say what makes me happy right now? When you have a person like that sitting in the chair across from you, how do you tell them to begin when they say, I don't even know what makes me happy? I really don't really know.

I encounter that often summer, and I walk through them like, what is it? Tell me a time that you last remember even feeling some happiness or joy. And if it's not coming up. I'm like, no, take your time with this. Like it can be anything. It doesn't have to be extravagant. Just like. And it might even be petting their dog or taking their dog on a walk. Often it's something like that or going to get an ice cream. I have a client just going out to get an ice cream with their spouse. And you know, it's usually the simple things. It's rarely a big extravagant memory. It's something that you're able to give yourself more regularly. And I'm a believer in these 30 day experiments. Even two weeks, if 30 days feels too long for you, Summer, when you were saying, the person that believes they're going to fall behind, instead of get ahead and get a handle on things, try something new like this for two weeks and baby step it. You might not to get to a six week vacation might take some time, but to give yourself that, that experience that brings you peace, say three times a week for the next two weeks and schedule it like you would a meeting in your calendar is very doable. And get rid of your device. I do cell phone free time every day, Summer, even if it's 20 minute walk. To really disconnect from our devices so we can hear our inner voice and the thoughts being sent to us that want to help us. Our intuition, our intuition. We can hear it in more quiet and peace. So put down your devices and see what starts to change in just two weeks.

Yeah, I do something very similar. I used to, every time I was in a car, I'd have on a podcast or you know, some talk thing going on or learning something. Book on tape. Book on tape. Oh my God, how old we are.

Yeah.

Or me. I'll speak for myself.

Me too. I know. Books on tape. Yes.

And eventually. And the same for being in the shower. I'd listen to music or have something else going, just filling the space. And of course today, now it's our cell phones that fill every single space. Even standing in line, everyone's looking down at their cell phone in the pharmacy line, right?

Yeah.

When I jump in the car now, I will not turn on anything and I will just be present. And driving is one of those things where you're just kind of there and kind of not there.

It's a meditation.

Dare I say that? But it's a space.

It can put you in. A meditation.

Yeah, yeah. It's a space where thoughts and ideas will come in that couldn't overshout all the clutter that I was continuously putting in. You know all the rest of the times. And so I began to look for periods during my day and in my life where I could let those whispers come in. Like taking the walk without having a phone, without having music again, showering, or even just going and sitting outside in the sun for 20 minutes.

Yeah.

And doing absolutely nothing. And that's always where the best stuff comes to me, frankly.

So it is. I've been driving as well and quiet and just feel like just noticing, especially in California. I've been doing hikes in Pasadena and just the hills and the mountains and just noticing other thing, like noticing just the little things. And I, I'm like, okay. And I'm. I'm kind of cultivating. I've been cultivating this intentionally because it helps us to manage when things come up. We have actually now the tools our mind is able to screen out and focus on what's needed to be focused upon. Our mind is such a tool. And we're not taught that summer as kids. I hope more kids are now, but that we can really use it to focus on what we want and not look at what we don't. And consumption for me is more than food and drinks. It's what I'm listening to. It's what I'm watching. There's certain shows I don't watch, certain music I don't listen to because I want to have a really good life. And there are certain things I'm going to consume and feed myself with to ensure that that happens more easily and so that I don't have the fearful thoughts that some of my clients and friends do. Watching, say, horror things like, I don't want those references in my mind, you know, watching awful things that people can do to each other, even like true crime stuff. And I know that's a big genre now and if it's your thing, I get it, but you know, for me it's not my thing. Like I'm too sensitive and I've learned we have to learn what to give ourselves and what to refrain from.

In short, yes, I, I completely agree. All right, Lisa, you. You have, you meet with people and kind of help them start this journey. Tell me about that and how people can reach you and what you offer.

Yeah, I'd love to work with any of you listening. And as summers, you know, people, I would love to offer you half off a first time session with me by phone or Zoom. It's normally 190, so it's 95. Instead, just mention summer or this show and you can find me through my website, it's NOLA therapy.com it stands for New Orleans Los Angeles therapy.com Lisaola therapy.com for email and NOLA therapy on Instagram. And I'd love to support you and really having the kind of life you. You would love to have. It's possible by taking baby steps and really believing new things, believing good things for yourself and healing the places within yourself that have been wounded and are vulnerable. So that it's not a, like, trigger point for you. You're saying you're secure there, you're feeling whole and complete, and the volume of that has turned down to zero, to just periodically, maybe a little spike. But it's not influencing your life anymore like it once did. I know that's true.

Yeah. Life decision making goals, what you are allowing yourself to have or not have. The whole thing. Yes.

Yeah.

Lisa, this is like zipped by so fast, as it always does. I've loved having you here and sharing this, especially, you know, bringing in the integration of therapy because you are traditional therapist, along with the sort of other energetic and astrological aspects. It's always wonderful to see people kind of bridging two different genres and bringing them together like romanticies, you know, the romance and the fantasy novel. You get the romantasy. Now you're kind of like that. You're like a romantasy. So thank you.

I love that it's important. Thank you. And I love you and your show and your work. I'm just delighted to be connected with you. Thank you, Summer.

Wonderful. And of course, all those references you just gave to how to reach you are going to be in the show description, if you haven't seen those already. All right, thanks a lot, Lisa. Take care.

You're welcome. You too.

Well, there you go. And I hope you loved the interview. I certainly did. And I learned something about myself. I encourage you to find out where is your chiron located and is it actually perfectly reflecting your core stuff? You can again find everything you need to know about Lysa Tahir inside the show notes that accompany this podcast. And with that, my dears, I'm going to say goodbye for yet another week. I'll see you then. In the meantime, do visit flowdreaming.com Remember, I do private sessions with people all the time. So if you're interested in learning more about flow, dreaming or yourself or having a session, just reach out to me. I'm@flowdreaming.com and I'll see you next week. Maybe you remember one brilliant thing. My summertime manifesting challenge. Well, I wanted a way to keep that energy going all year round. That's how I ended up creating the Flow Dreaming Mastermind. This is different than any other program I've offered. For one thing, it is packed with teachings. Not only do you get immediate access to 36 courses and all the accompanying Flow Dreams and worksheets, but you and I will get to Flow Dream together each month. Live. Each month I plan a special event. A Flow Dreaming session coinciding with the full moon or other potent day. And we gather to create huge manifesting energy. Think of it like a series of special events and you're invited to every single one as a Flow Dream Mastermind member. A Flowy if you will. And best of all, it's affordable. Costs as much as taking a family of four to Applebee's each month. No kidding. You'll get to connect with like minded souls around the world for Flow Dreaming parties. Joyful Energy Cleansing Flow Dreaming. Some woo woo rituals that show a little of my witchy side and just a heck of a good time. Because the lighter and brighter you are, the lighter and brighter your life is. Check out the Flow dreaming mastermind@flowdreaming.com because our next speaker, special event and party is just around the corner.