2. Are you looking for chemical free cosmetics?

Hello and welcome to the Formula Botanica Green Beauty Conversations podcast. If you don't already know who we are, we are the online and award winning organic and natural cosmetic science school. And you can find us over@formulabotanica.com My name is Gemma and I'm the business and relationship manager at Formula Botanica. In this episode, Lorraine, the director at Formula Botanica and I discuss the term chemical free and what it really means. What do people mean when they say chemical free? A lot of people are becoming frustrated with this term and feel that it is not only scientifically inaccurate, but also deliberately misleading. I hope that after listening to this episode that the term chemical free is demystified a bit and we can start to bring the focus back to what is in our skincare and not what is not in it. Hello and welcome, Lorraine.

Thanks for having me again, Gemma.

So, in this podcast, our second podcast, we're talking about the term chemical free and why it is used and how it is used in natural skincare industry. It is a term that's used quite a lot and it's often a term that is used without really considering exactly what it means and the exact message that people are trying to get across. So let's just have a little chat about what the term chemical free means in the natural skincare industry and why people might use it on their product descriptions.

That's a great question. Well, I think people use the term chemical free because that's what a lot of consumers are looking for at the moment. And of course, we undertook our green beauty survey for the first time this year, and we asked people, you know, what drives you to buy clean, green and organic beauty. And almost three quarters of our respondents basically said we want to avoid chemicals or perceived toxins. And we purposefully didn't use the word synthetic in the answers that we gave to people because we knew that when people talk about chemicals, they are generally always talking about synthetic chemicals when it comes to cosmetics. But then we thought a bit more about what does chemical free actually mean to people. And so I think we've broken it down into three sort of main definitions. The first one is that people generally think that skincare product actually does contain no chemicals, because that's what they've read on the Internet. And in that case, we are talking about a lack of understanding of basic chemistry. But that's not the majority of people. By far most people who buy green beauty, most people who make green beauty absolutely understand that all matter is a chemical. The second one is that people think that chemical Free could mean that it doesn't contain ingredients that are not natural. In that case, the word chemical really is replacing synthetic chemical and people just leave the word synthetic out. And the third one, of course, is that some people then want to avoid ingredients that they perceive as harmful. So they use the word chemical free to suggest that that means that a cosmetic wouldn't contain any perceived harmful ingredients. But I guess the main point is that people use the word chemical free because it's almost like a shorthand term for something that people understand, that consumers understand when they're buying green beauty. And most people understand that all matter is made of chemicals. But yeah, we're using this term to really try and explain what isn't in the cosmetic product.

So just to be clear, I mean, the term chemical free is actually a bit of a misnomer because it doesn't actually exist because like you say, all matter is in fact a chemical. So you're never going to be able to have anything that's chemical free. But people are using it so that they can get the idea across that there wouldn't be anything that could be considered harmful within their product and that the product is natural.

Absolutely, yeah.

Just talking about natural. We did record a podcast previously to this discussing the term natural and what natural means. So you should have a listen to that for a long in depth discussion on the topic. But why do you think it's so prevalent, this term in the natural beauty industry?

I think people are more interested at the moment in what isn't in their skincare products and hair care products than what is. And we've seen a lot of people come to the green beauty world because of this almost fear or concern around what is in mainstream beauty products. So in order for the green beauty industry to set itself apart, it's chosen to do that rather than focusing on what is in their products by looking at what isn't in there. And chemical free is almost like an umbrella term that captures really everything that isn't in your product. So although the mainstream chemistry industry and world will be very scathing when they see the word chemical free, because of course, even water is a chemical. People are generally using this term because they mean well and they're trying to put something use terminology for their customers that they will understand. There's a hilarious website called dhmo.org which I recommend all of our listeners go and visit. It's based on dihydrogen monoxide, which is a colorless and odorless chemical compound. And when you go to the website, it basically says, yes, you should be concerned about it. It's been classified as a toxic or carcinogenic substance and it's a constituent of many known toxic substances and can even be lethal to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful. Now dihydrogen monoxide is of course, water. And someone's created this spoof website around it to show that people get very, very excited and angry and upset about the idea of chemicals in their life. So I think that the green beauty world has embraced this term to try and give a word to their customers that they will understand. And in that case, it's chemical free.

Okay? And now we've got a Facebook group that we run called the Skincare Entrepreneur Mastermind. And we've actually had several discussions in that group about this term. And it often comes about where someone's posted about something else and then someone chimes in and says, oh, you can't say that or what do you mean by chemical free? And they start prodding a little bit to the person who might have posted or made a comment. And those discussions have often been really, really heated. So it seems that it's quite a contentious term within the natural beauty industry as well. And there were people in some of the discussions. I know you've got some of the information from those discussions up with you, but there was interesting people saying they were trying to say that maybe people are not taking us credibly in the green beauty industry because we're using terms like this. Wouldn't there be a better way of describing it? And maybe people are fear mongering. And so I wanted to talk a little bit more about the types of discussions that our community is having. You know, having this conversation around the term chemical free or toxic free or. And you know, like you mentioned earlier, the Green beauty survey did show that people were getting their information from blogs and websites that might not always be completely credible.

Exactly. Yes. A couple of years ago actually, our cosmetic chemist Elham posted up this, this thread in our big free Skincare Entrepreneur Mastermind group on Facebook. And it basically said, you know, all matter is made of chemicals. And whether a chemical is made in a lab or obtained from nature tells us precisely nothing about how safe or dangerous it is. And whether or not you can pronounce a chemical's name is totally irrelevant to the discussion. And she was putting this up in good faith, thinking, well, everyone knows this, everyone agrees with this. Haha, look at this great infographic. And there was an absolute explosion of comments underneath it. And yeah, it got very Very heated. Those were in the days as well that you couldn't turn commenting off on Facebook, which was maybe a bit unfortunate, because, of course, we woke up to another full explosion of comments. And so basically, people were coming at it from both angles. You know, there were brand owners in there saying, oh, yes, absolutely. You know, I've spent half my time battling questions like this, Is this chemical free? And these are questions they're getting from their customers. And then on the other side, you know, people were saying, I don't understand why you're saying this, because this is very condescending. I already know this, and I would never say this to my customer because they would feel like they were being lectured or patronized. So I thought it was very interesting to come at it from both angles, because, of course, on one hand, you want to educate people on one hand, you want to educate people so that they understand that chemical free doesn't actually really mean anything from a scientific and technical perspective when it comes to your cosmetics. But on the other hand, you want to speak to your customers in a voice and a language that they understand. So what is the happy medium? And that's obviously a lot of something a lot of people are really, really struggling with. And in particular, the people who got upset, you know, they were saying, this is just snarky. I don't really understand what you're trying to say to me here, because of course, we already know that. But then on the other hand, there were people saying, actually, I didn't know this at all. And I published a blog post on this topic about three or four years ago on one of the websites that I used to run. And I had the same sort of comments underneath it. You know, people were commenting, saying, how dare you try and lecture me. I already know that everything is a chemical. Why are you telling me this? But I wonder why people get so offended by this. Because on the other hand, you have to spread the science and the knowledge to get people to understand that actually everything they're putting on their face and their skin and their body and their hair is made up of chemicals.

Well, it then begs the question, if people already know that it in fact doesn't exist, then why are they still using it? Why are they still using that term? I mean, I know we said, you know, it could be an umbrella term, but it's interesting to think from the customer's point of view. If you see a label like that, you know, what are you getting from that? Are you definitely getting, okay, it's, you know, it's got nothing that's harmful to me. Or are you thinking, okay, if it's chemical free, then what is in it? Because often we see on bottles of cream or shampoo or whatever, you have this long list of what's not in it and then an equally long label of things that are in it. And then how, as a customer, do we kind of figure out what these ingredients are and what impact they might have on us?

I think that's right. I think a lot of customers are probably driving this terminology of chemical free to a certain degree. I think the brands are as well. So it's a bit of a vicious circle. People think that people want to buy products that don't contain chemicals, so they then start to market to that and there will be a long list of things that aren't in products. You know, no parabens, no sls, no nasties. That's a term we see a lot which is not a term I like at all because I don't think the word nasty should be anywhere near your brand if you're selling skincare. But that aside, I think the, I think the industry has a large role to play in this and I think we need to start focusing more on what is in our product than what isn't. And I know quite a few brand owners who have over the years woken up to this and removed the words chemical free from their labeling as they started to realize that actually that wasn't necessary and they could start to market their products based on the fantastic ingredients they were using. And I think that's really where we should be heading now. One thing you touched on which is absolutely right, is that a lot of skincare, all skincare labels, particularly here in the Euro, have to be labeled with inky words in key terminology. So using the international nomenclature nature for the cosmetic ingredients in key and those terms and words are often very hard to understand if you're not in the world of cosmetics. And they've been chosen because they can therefore be standardized around the world. And that's the beauty of it.

Let's just, I'm just going to interrupt you really quickly. Give us a common, common thing that you would see on the back of a bottle or a tub, that that would be the inky name for something that's just quite a common ingredient.

Well, there you go exactly. Water. The inky name for water is aqua. Now most people will get that around the world, but obviously you can't write water on the label in a country that doesn't speak English. So therefore using Aqua is something that is standardized and it will be used all around the world, everywhere where inky terminology is legally required. And it is legally required in most countries, apart from, unfortunately, the U.S. and Australia. So there are obviously many other countries around the world that don't adhere to inky labelling. But most countries around the world are starting to follow the EU regulations, and this is something we strongly support as well, because they are very strict and they enforce safe and stable products coming onto the market, which is something that I particularly don't see in the us, unfortunately. So I think inky labelling is a very good thing. But when it comes to plant names, for instance, what they will often do is use the Latin name, and that can be quite overwhelming and scary for a customer if they're not used to using Latin biological names for plants.

Yeah. Let's have another example of something that's really common. What about shea butter?

Oh, that's quite a long one. That's Butyraspermum parki. And that's quite a complex one. And actually that isn't even the common name, the common Latin name used for shea butter anymore, I believe. So they're using a terminology that has gone out of date in the biological world as well, which means no one will ever know what that means.

But you look at it on a label and it's really long, and then you think, what is this thing? When in fact it's shea butter.

Exactly. And that's why a lot of brands get around that by putting the word shea butter in brackets behind it. But when you have a tiny little lip balm pot or tube, you don't necessarily have that much space to cram all of these words onto a label. And of course, the legislation is becoming stricter in some parts of the world, including here in the eu, and that means that certain terms will have to be included over and above what's already on there in the future. So I think brands are probably looking at where they can cut words from their label rather than add words onto it. So I understand the struggle that people have. And that's where I suppose the conversation that a brand has with their customer is so important. Because if you're talking to people and explaining, this is what I make my products with, maybe showing people, people photos of you making your products, showing the raw ingredients before you use them, your customers will become more comfortable with what you're doing as well. But it is an ongoing journey for green beauty brands, I'd say. It's not something that's going to be Cracked overnight?

No, no, it's quite complex. And I know that we were talking about terms that are used on the front of certain products like alcohol free. And I guess we have to be quite careful as well.

We do, we do. And that's where the EU regulations play a very interesting role in that. So the words free from are more heavily regulated here in the EU than they are for instance, in the USA or other parts of the world. And what they say here is that they don't want you to really focus on what isn't in your product, particularly if its synthetic alternative wouldn't contain that ingredient either. So you use the term alcohol free. That's a perfect example. If you were making a lip balm, you would never put alcohol free or paraben free or SLS free necessarily on your lip balm label, because you wouldn't have to make a synthetic lip balm with those ingredients either. And that's, that's an interesting issue that I think a lot of smaller indie beauty brands haven't necessarily considered. And I certainly recommend anyone who's starting out making a green beauty brand that they do go and read the regulations in some detail, particularly on cosmetic claims, because you can get into trouble with that.

I mean, what's the repercussion? So just to expand on the issue quickly, are you saying that because you wouldn't make a normal kind of standard lip balm in the shop with those ingredients, that you can't say that yours is then without it, because it doesn't make a difference, you'd be breaking the law.

Exactly. Now, at the moment, there aren't any huge repercussions for that in the eu, but saying that the authorities are starting to look at this in more detail and they have already undertaken a large scale surveillance survey looking at the entirety of the EU and how people are using these free from claims and other cosmetic claims as well. But in general, there's not much policing going on at the moment. The interesting thing is that here in the EU we focus on regulating claims for what isn't in your product. Whereas in the US the regulation there is a lot more focused on regulating what you say about what is in your product. So it's much harder to make anti aging claims, it's much harder to make statements about the effects that certain plants could have in your skincare, for instance. So you might be using lavender essential oil, use it as an example, which can be highly anti inflammatory, antibacterial, antifungal. Lavender is practically anti everything. But you cannot say that on the label. Because then of course you veer into pharmaceutical medicinal territory and that is highly, highly outlawed. So I can see that it would be a lot easier for a US brand to start to make these free from claims, chemical free claims in particular, because they're not allowed to really market what is in their products. And personally, I think this is absolutely mad. I think the regulations in the US need to be totally overhauled and brought more in line with the UK and the eu, because quite frankly, why should you have to focus, why should you legally be forced to focus on what isn't in your products than looking at.

What is and therefore create more confusion.

Exactly, yes. So in effect, in some ways the regulations are causing this. Now, there's another interesting example here in the eu, I'm on a roll now, where a lot of brands use the term preservative free.

Yeah.

And that one is basically an extension of the term chemical free. And I've seen a lot of cosmetic chemists on the Internet get very, very angry over this. In fact, some of them are a bit like a pack of wild dogs, you know, attacking people and ripping them to shreds for using terminology that they don't like. But to use a preservative in the EU and actually define it as the preservative in your product, it has to legally be contained within the regulations. There's an annex that lists all the preservatives they let you use. Great. You think, okay, I'm going to choose my preservative, I'm going to choose it from the regulations. But then you go and look at it and you think, actually this is quite limited, particularly when you're making natural or organic cosmetics. So you think, well, I found this really innovative new preservative very exciting. I want to use that. But in order for a new preservative to be allowed to be used in the eu, it has to be listed in this piece of regulation, piece of documentation. And in order for it to be listed on there, it has to be tested on animals because it has to fall under the REACH regulations that we have here, the chemical regulations. But testing on animals for cosmetic purposes is now not allowed in the EU anymore. So here you have this amazing catch 22 where you're not allowed to use new preservatives and define them as preservatives when you're working with your safety assessors and your chemists, but you can't get hold of any either because they're not allowed to be listed in the regulations themselves because otherwise they'd have to be tested on animals, which has been outlawed. This horrible vicious circle. So then you can understand why someone would use a preservative that isn't defined as a preservative under the law and call their product preservative free.

Why do the chemists get so the. Why do they get so upset? Is it because there is actually a preservative in there?

It's either because, well, in some cases, people don't preserve their products properly, but they. They view preservative free as something that is misleading people. A term that is misleading people. Okay, but what I'm saying is, of course, the mainstream industry has created this vicious circle whereby sometimes you're creating a situation where you can use the word preservative free. I wouldn't recommend it. I think all brands should be proud of preservation and proud to include preservatives in their formulations. But I understand why a brand would go down that route because there's this legal loophole that allows them to do it.

Wow. It's quite an interesting.

It's quite hard to explain as well. Yeah. I get this question a lot on social media, and then when I try and explain it to people, they're just sat there sort of going, oh, my God. Really?

Because it's not as simple as it sounds. Because really, people are using terms as a way to circumnavigate other terms and other regulations that prevent them from saying things that they probably really want to say. So it's not just a straightforward solution, as we saw in that conversation that we had in the Facebook group, because people are saying, well, I do know what it means. I do technically know that this term doesn't exist. However, I'm not allowed to say X, Y, Z. So I'd rather have that and talk to my customers about what that means than not have anything on there.

Yes, exactly. And just to follow on from what I said, I see a lot of cosmetic chemists in particular. I mean, as I said, there's quite a pack of them who like to chase people around the Internet. They. They get very upset because they feel that people are misleading customers and that they are producing their cosmetic claims based on marketing. But the mainstream industry is no different. They embrace this free from as well. And if you go into the shops and supermarkets, you will see the free from labels everywhere as well. And they take it the other way too, where they're advertising what is in their product and focusing on botanicals which are then present in less than 0.001% of the overall formulation. So it swings both ways, to be honest. And I think in reality, the regulators have a piece of work to do to look at the cosmetic chemistry world as a whole, the beauty world as a whole, and look at how their regulations tie into how people market their products. Because there probably needs to be a little bit more flexibility and probably more regulation on how people are actually using certain terms.

Yeah, I mean, I know we discussed it in our previous podcast. The term natural is obviously bandied about quite often and it's often a term that is heavily criticized because there is no regulation around it. You can just use it as and when you like, which obviously means that the natural beauty world can use it, but also the mainstream. And it can be very misleading. And it's interesting because I guess from the chemist's point of view, they're saying it's misleading because it's not scientifically accurate. The terms.

Exactly.

Which is true. It is true. But like you say, there hasn't been a lot of options for people to use other sorts of terms.

Yes. Well, we'd like to see people use more positive based terms when they're advertising their skin care. I think that's worth saying is when you have beautiful natural skin care or hair care products, you want to really focus on what's in them. So you want to be talking about them being botanical and plant based and possibly organic and natural. And that way you can really sell your products to the public based on the positives of your formulation rather than what isn't in there.

Yeah. Okay. Well, it's been a really, really interesting discussion and I'm sure we could carry on for ages and ages about it. But thank you for explaining so many aspects of this term and why it's used. And hopefully whoever's listening will find it, enlighten and will join us for our next episode.

Thank you very much.

It's a pleasure. Thanks for listening and I hope you found this episode interesting and I hope that the term chemical free is a bit clearer and what it means is a bit clearer. You can find more information on us over on our website, formulabetanica.com and on our social media platforms, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram Formula Botanica. If you, if you wish to join in on the conversation, you can find our online forum at Facebook Skincare Entrepreneur Mastermind. And if you have any questions or queries, you can email us@helloormulabotanica.com thanks for listening. We really appreciate your time and we hope you join us for our next episode. Bye.

Sam.