EP10. Insider Tips on Working with Beauty Bloggers

Hello and welcome to the Formula Botanica Green Beauty Conversations podcast. If you're interested in taking one of our award winning online organic cosmetic science courses, then please head over to formulabotanica.com and check out our free sample class. In this episode, I interview Eilish Lucas from the Glow Getter, which is a natural beauty and lifestyle blog. We put lots and lots of different questions to Ailish and she answered all of them. So if you want to hear what it's like to work with a natural beauty blogger, please tune in and listen to the latest episode. Hello and welcome to the podcast.

Eilish, thank you so much for having me.

It's an absolute pleasure. We're so excited that you can join us today. So, just a little bit of background. Lorraine and I met Eilish at the Natural Beauty Roundtable last year in Brighton and we were really interested in what she was doing on her site, the Glow Getter. So we wanted to have a podcast and yeah, just. Do you want to introduce yourself and say how you got into beauty blogging and what you do?

Sure, of course. So, hi everyone, I'm Eilish. I run the natural and organic beauty, health and wellness blog called theglowgetter.com and I started off about three years ago Beauty blogging and just focusing on natural and organic beauty. And since then it's kind of grown into health and wellness as well because I am a really big advocate and firm believer in it's very nice having these beauty products, but you need to be eating well, you need to be thinking well, you need to be looking after your body and it all comes as part of a holistic lifestyle. So it's kind of evolved over the last three years. But I started to get into beauty blogging mainly because I was obsessed with natural and organic beauty. I trained in makeup at the London College of Fashion and I also trained in beauty therapy part time whilst I was working as a marketing manager full time too. So I've always had an interest in it. And the natural beauty side kind of came from my own personal struggle with acne and never being able to find something that would really properly work. So I was going down the non natural route for so many years and just being so frustrated and having really, really sensitive skin. So I came across a brand called Pie Skincare about five years ago and tried them and thought, I'll just give it a whirl. And then two weeks later my skin had completely transformed. So I was like, whoa, what is this crazy natural and organic world? And then that's when I started blogging and it kind of just grew from there, really.

That's really interesting. I and I know that a lot of listeners can share your frustration with acne. That's been quite a big topic in our different forums, so it's probably one that I should make a note of to do a podcast on, actually. So for this episode we or episode in the podcast, we've decided to do an uncensored theme. So what we did is we invited all members from our community to ask any questions to a to see if she would answer them. So I'm going to read out a series of them and Ailish can respond. Right. So one of the first questions we got was from one of our students called Parul, and she said, I get quite a few requests to collaborate, but I'm still not clear on how to choose the best blogger for my brand. How do you find a good match, basically?

Yeah, sure. Okay. So just as an FYI, I have not seen these questions before, so it's going to be off the top of my head, but that's the way I like it because I was just saying to you before, my answers wouldn't change had I seen them beforehand. So that's a great question. Normally with brands, I feel and collaborations, I feel like it's a collaboration built on a relationship. So bloggers and brands kind of need to date each other a bit. So that's how I liken building collaborations too. It's a bit like dating, where you check out each other's profiles and your blogs and you kind of see what they're about. So first and foremost, you need to check to see whether their brand values match up with your own. If you like the content they're producing, if you think it's really high quality, also ask them for a media pack. All bloggers should have a media pack, I do myself. And it gives you a range of different ways the blogger will work with brands. Normally it kind of starts off sending a couple of products or one or two key products to the blogger and just introducing them to your brand as well. And then it kind of evolves from there. Now, if you want to do paid collaborations with them, which is becoming more and more frequent, and I do think it's a really important part of blogging, then start off with the product works and then if you'd like to then have some more control over what the blogger says and what message you want to get out there, then that's when you start to talk about paid collaborations. But first and foremost, it's really about does the blogger align with your brand and your brand values? Do you like the content they're putting out there? Would you be proud to say that you are partnering with that blogger and then start from there? Also trust your gut. If it feels right, then you're kind of along the right lines with a lot of things. But if it doesn't really feel like they could be a good fit, then just don't go there because your brand is precious. So yeah.

Right, next question from one of my students called Lisa. She said, and this is a great question, actually one I've been thinking about since she posted it, it says, in a very crowded space, what makes you, aish, sit up and be genuinely interested in someone like a small brand who might reach out to you?

Oh, that is a great question. I think the main things for me that help really small brands stand out is the building the relationship, being open to different ideas and open to different ways of collaboration. So for example, it's never just about, oh, can you do a one off sponsored post for me or a one off video to help promote my brand and I'll pay you. That's really transactional. And I really don't feel like the industry is there anymore. I feel like it's moved along to building relationships, working collaboratively where it and then it grows. So if you're a really small brand, then for me to get to notice brands, and I am not a massive blogger at all, but for me to get to notice brands with the amount of emails that I get sent, you want to like, it needs to start off with the basics. You need to get my name right, you need to have gone onto my site and you need to have seen, say a video that I've done and you've made a comment on it because you've made the effort to watch it. If you can start off with those basics, which so many brands don't, they'll come in and you can tell it's a generic email, they've blanked it out to every blogger they can possibly find. So if you can keep it personal and start off there, then you're first of all more likely to get a response. And then secondly, like, just look at, like have your website something that's really attractive and your branding as something that's really attractive. That gets me excited. So everybody loves good packaging. Everybody loves a really nice website, everybody loves a nice blog and an Instagram page where they can go and be inspired. Like bloggers love to be inspired. So if I can then see that you've got a really, really nice brand. Then I'll be like, okay, yeah, that's cool. I really want to work with you because this is kind of a bit of brutal honesty. But if your branding isn't right and your products just don't look great, then I'm less likely to kind of email you back and start off that relationship. Because it's like I've got to have things that look nice as well. And it doesn't matter if your product is absolutely incredible. If it doesn't look nice, then I'm not really going to want to put it on my Instagram page. Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of. But going back to the original question, like, get the basics right in terms of contacting the blogger. Also get your basics right in your business and like, if you're not there with it, then just hang fire for a few weeks or a month, get everything right and then start contacting bloggers.

I mean, you know, it's an interesting question that. Because you can still form relationships with bloggers even if you're not going to be using them imminently.

Yeah.

So that's often the way. We've met a lot of people just looking at what they're posting on Twitter, looking at what they were posting on Instagram, responding, commenting, just saying, hey, I really like this, or, oh, well, what you're doing right now. And that way you already have a rapport. Yeah.

And it makes it so much easier to then get in touch with that person. Because then if you've commented on say some Instagram posts or my YouTube videos or Twitter, like, they don't go unnoticed because we love being able to like, hear feedback and interact with people when we've done a piece of content. Like, it takes a lot of time and energy to create this content for free constantly for our subscribers. So one of our like mini hits is we when we get a comment or somebody saying they enjoy it, then it's really great. And then that also is a really great, like kind of branch into starting to talk to that blogger like you guys have done on a longer term basis and then moving forward.

Yeah. So something to think about, guys. To YouTube and Twitter and start commenting. Stop saying hi. Stop saying hi. Yeah. Let's go to the next question from Joyce. She says she wants to know how you got started blogging.

Yeah, sure. So I got started blogging about three years ago now. And that was basically because I wanted something for myself and I wanted to work for myself as well. I was in a job that I didn't really like and kind of knew that beauty and makeup and health and wellbeing was an area that I really loved and I wanted to start talking about it. And I felt I had some things to say. I think most people do and that's. And I just decided to take action. I think there was a whole year to 18 months of umming and arring about stuff, buying a website, like a domain name, and then not really doing anything. And I feel that, like I might be way further along had I used that 18 months to actually start some stuff and take action rather than just being like, hmm, what should I call it? And how should I do this and how should it look? So yeah, that's kind of how I started. I mean, I'm not sure where you, you want me to go in terms of like how I actually got started with blogging in terms of the tech aspect or what? I don't know.

But yeah, maybe. So you said you felt you had some things to say, so yeah, well.

In the blogging world, I think it was just. I just discovered all of this natural, organic kind of loveliness and I was looking at ingredients and I was becoming more shocked as I read more and more about the ingredients that were being used in products. And also the industry wasn't really regulated. So I really wanted to kind of start talking about that, but not in a scaremongering way because there were so many people doing it at the time. There still are so many people kind of scaremongering with these facts and figures which most of the time they're not true. So I wanted to approach it in a more fun and friendly way by saying, okay, yeah, like these ingredients aren't great, but let's focus on these amazing brands and these amazing products that are doing really cool stuff. So that's kind of where I started off and I still feel like I'm very true to that now. If I don't like a product or I don't like a brand, then I'll just not cover it because I also know that there's people behind that brand and it's a business as well. But so if, say there was a brand that I like, we just didn't get on in terms of the products and stuff. I'd just given feedback and say, I'm really sorry I can't cover it for X, Y and Z, but wish it the best of luck. But for the brands that I thought were really phenomenal, then I just wanted to be a cheerleader for them and really, really champion what they were doing. So that's when I started to reach out to brands and kind of say, I really love what you're doing. Is there any way I can help? And then it kind of just went on from there, really, and grew naturally. So say, for example, there was a brand in the US Called Beauty Heroes, which I was doing a project called the GLOW Summit, which is an online series of interviews with key green beauty and wellness people, which I'm actually going to be running again in a few months. And as part of that, I'd heard of this brand called Beauty Heroes, and the owner was called Genie. And I'd really love what she was doing.

She.

And just her whole ethos, and I got really good vibes from her. So I reached out and was like, I would really love to interview you for the GLOW Summit. And then she ended up becoming a sponsor for it, and then I became an ambassador, and it kind of grew from there. So I guess it's going back to the question beforehand, like, about just building relationships and then things evolving naturally, which is a really nice way to be. But that's kind of how I started off blogging. And then I started off reaching out to brands, and then. And then it kind of tipped a little bit. But I still reach out to brands now and it's. Yeah, just. It's grown organically. And I love it. Absolutely love it.

You can tell from your website I feel inspired when I go there.

Like, oh.

Okay, right. Let me go to the next one. Oh, okay. So Liz says you're such a natural on screen. Did you train? Did you just get better over time? I would love to hear Alisha's tips on natural screen presence.

Oh, well, that is a compliment. Thank you so much. Yeah, I think I've got a couple of videos from when I very first started, and I was like, oh, my goodness, it was so cringeworthy. It was hilarious. But you've just got to start. And the only way I still do videos now is by telling myself, nobody watches them. So I, like, stop taking myself so seriously and it's completely fine. And so I first started off just kind of talking to the camera, and I realized that you need to be a very, very exaggerated version of yourself sometimes on video. Now, I'm not saying not like yourself, but just more kind of upbeat version because sometimes when you hear yourself talk, you sound so monotone and you're like, oh, my goodness, I'm the most boring.

Person in the world.

So you have to use the like your ups and downs and your tone a little bit more. So that would probably be the first thing I'd say. Kind of just use variation in your tone. Second thing would be also just be yourself. Like, as you spend more and more time on camera, you get used to just staring into this camera lens and waffling on. And I think of it as my best friend. The camera is my best friend and I'm sat there having a chat with her rather than it going out on YouTube and then anybody who's anybody can see it. So, yeah, just be yourself. Also think about your camera as your best friend who you're chatting to if you want to go down the YouTube route. I didn't have any training. I've done drama before when I was younger, which I'm sure that helps in some respects. But no, I don't have any training on it. But there are loads of YouTube channels where they tell you how to speak in front of a camera if you have loads of problems with it or you're a bit shy. So definitely just check them out. And then I'd say the final tip would be just do it. Like, don't worry about who's watching it, just start. You'll get better as you go along. I've got so far to go, but I'm definitely a heck of a lot better than the first video that I did.

Oh my goodness.

I'll try and find it and you can include it in the show notes for a giggle. So.

So I'll make a note of that. Okay, what. So next one from Daniela. What would be the ideal strategy for indie brands in terms of blogging? So start local or approach international bloggers from the very beginning, even if they don't have a proper international presence. Or slash distribution in place.

So to. So that was. What would be the strategy for brands to contact bloggers, whether they're local or international? I would say it depends on your distribution. If you can send products internationally and you have an international presence, then great, go for like international bloggers as well. So say, for example, if you can get your products over to the US and you can sell in that market as well, then definitely look at the bloggers over there. I think that's a really good strategy. If you say are just in the UK and you've only got your distribution in the UK, then it's kind of a catch 22, because half of my audience is in the US and half are in the UK, so sometimes brands won't work with me in the US because they're like, well, I want 100% of an audience in the US rather than some of it in the UK as well. But if you are just in the UK, I would start off focusing in the UK. There are some great natural beauty bloggers and also health and wellness bloggers out there who you'll be able to speak to. And again, just start off. I think the strategy would be to start off commenting like we said, on their YouTube channels or their social media, getting to know them that way, supporting them that way, then email them to say like having you brand, but I'm like, this is what I'm doing. How can we start off the relationship? Is there any way I can help you? And then kind of go from there with it. So definitely start local and if you've never done it before, like dip your toes in the water and see how it goes before you then start to get in touch with say the bigger bloggers who will straight off want probably like to do sponsored content with you because they get so much. So don't be offended if you get a media pack back straight away from, say, bloggers who are a bit bigger because that's kind of just how they roll, especially if you've not built a relationship with them. So, yeah, that would be my strategy. Start local, then go global.

Okay. So actually, Lorraine has asked a couple of questions. She says, I want to hear the worst pitches Eilish has ever heard from a brand. Like, what are the biggest no nos you've seen from beauty brands approaching you? Some juicy gossip would be good. Not naming any names, of course.

Great question. So the worst pitch I've probably or pitches I've ever got are, first of all, they're like, hello friend or dear friend. And you're like, really? And then it will be a case of, oh, yeah, there was one brand where they'd said that. So it was kind of. You knew it was a blanket email and they'd said, we would really love to collaborate with you and we want to, I think it was send you some product and you will review it and you will include this wording in your review and you will include 10 pictures of the product in the review and we can pay you £25 for this. And it is an amazing opportunity. So when would you like to start it? And I was like, first of all.

Like, who are you? I've never heard of you before.

Secondly, it was just like, where is my name? Do you even know? Like my blog? Like, do you know what I do and talk about? It's Quite clear that you don't because you've just sent a blanket email out. Secondly, a collaboration, it's where you send product and in exchange for potentially a review. But it's never 100% given, especially with me, because of the amount of product that you get sent. I will always, always, always try to do a review on it, but it's just not possible, like especially with skincare, when you need to spend three weeks trying the skincare product out. So it could be like a six month lead time. So yeah, going back to the question, like just not saying anything about my blog was a big no. Then saying that you want to pay me £25 for a collaboration. Well, firstly that would be paid content. And then if it is paid content, it's a lot more expensive because you have to spend time and effort taking pictures, writing thoughtful posts and words that people want to read, putting decent links in there for the brand, making sure that you're getting across what they want to say in it properly. Like, so there's a very big difference between collaboration and sponsored and paid content. And they really wanted sponsored and paid content for £25 and a product. So it was just a big no, no altogether. So that was probably, obviously I'm not going to name any brand names, but they were just really big no, nosy. So if you are going to approach a blogger, then just understand what the word collaboration and sponsored content mean and the difference between them I think is really helpful for you. And then at least the blogger kind of knows that you know what you're on about. Again, going back to what we said before, like try and comment on a few like of their social media posts and videos before you then contact them because then it sticks in their mind. They're like, oh yeah, I saw you before. And that kind of starts you off on the right foot anyway. So yeah, definitely comment on and pick out something that's specific. Like we all like to be flattered. You know, we all like to say, oh, that was a really nice thing that you said, or I really like the way you shot that. And then it's like, okay, yeah, okay. Also understand that if you send product over, there might not be a review and that is a risk that you have to take unless you want to pay for it with some of the bigger bloggers, some of the smaller bloggers will obviously not do that. They will just, they're happy to receive product and then do a review on it. But if you're working full time and it say like, I am like you Got to pay the bills. So if you want to have a say over what goes out on my specific channel, then that's where the cost comes in. But that's okay, you know, like, it's not for everybody, but it is for some people, and some really amazing creative work can come from that. Also, if a brand actually approached me recently and they were like, I'm so sorry. I'd sent them my media pack and they were like, I'm so sorry, we just can't afford what you're charging at the moment. But we'd really love to work with you in other ways. Are there. Is there something maybe slightly less we could do, or are there any other ways that you're working with brands? And I thought that's absolutely brilliant because it's never just a yes or a no thing. And especially if you're a good businesswoman or man, you know that everything's negotiable. So if you can open yourself up to that conversation, then that's really cool as well. So the bloggers are people, and brands who are trying to set up businesses are people as well. So I think it's just remembering that. And then you can only like go up from there. As long as you remember that they're people.

Yeah, exactly. And you are essentially still doing a job.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Right, so next question is, what's the typical day of a beauty blogger? Like, I think some people probably imagine a beauty for blogger's life to be full of glamour and spa days. What's the reality?

That is hilarious. I would love it to be full of glamour and spa days. So because I work for myself and I do this full time, I have quite a strict routine. So my morning routine is kind of set where I get up at 6 and I'll go to the gym and then come back and make myself a green smoothie, do some meditation, do some reading, and plan out my day. So I have a planner which I write everything down in, and I try and keep everything structured during the day just because otherwise I'll just end up like, looking at really nice companies and brands online and then never getting anything done. So it's normally about half past eight by the time I'll start work. And that starts off with writing a blog post, planning out my YouTube content, planning out any projects that I'm doing. So say, for example, have a green smoothie challenge going on at the moment, and then that leads into me selling me my online course called the Glow Life, which I created. And that's a six week online course for people to sign up to for $97. So that's part of like a business side as well that I am growing. So the blog kind of helps to complement that. So that will be one of the projects that I'll work on. Then say there's another project that I work on which is quite large, called the GLOW Summit, and that's a series of online interviews with key green beauty and wellness people. And that is to help anybody who subscribes to get insider tips on how to glow from the inside out. So from that and then look for sponsors for that. So there's a lot of brand pitches that go out for those projects. There's a lot of contacting and rearranging of interviews and then making sure I've got all the social media sorted for it. So it's kind of like there's a lot of projects going on. Then there'll be brand work where there's projects that I'm working with brands on, so that'll be liaising with them. There's a lot of emailing that goes on, also working creatively to decide the content for that, then shooting and filming it and then editing as well. Because brands, if they work with me, then they get one or two iterations of the video for feedback before it then goes live. So it can be any and any number of those things. Also then I've got. I upload to YouTube three times a week, so I need to create that content as well. So there's an awful lot of time spent in my bedroom because that's where I work out of. And I can go stir crazy. I do make myself go out for a walk at lunchtime, which after this podcast I shall be doing, which is where I then go and listen to something which is really inspiring just to kind of help me crack on with the day. And then after that there's a lot of replying to social media because obviously if somebody's bothered to make a comment on my YouTube video, then that is just incredible. Like, I value those comments so much because somebody's bothered to sit there and watch your content that you've created and then taking it a step further to then want to comment and say something nice to you or unnice. But most of the time my community is just the most supportive ever. So, like taking the time to like speak to them and get to know them as well. So in terms of like a full day, it's just. It can be really all over the place with so many different projects going on. There's just never like, for example, there might be a couple of days where I'll be invited to go and get some treatments or something. But that is lovely. But then I'll also use that as content for my YouTube channel. So it's never just swatting around in a spa and being like, oh, just do my nails and oh, give me a facial and then that's it. There's always work related behind it and how you can help the brand. If they've like asked, would you come and like have a treatment done? So it's really busy. Like I'll start work at probably like 8 o' clock and then I'll normally not finish till like 9 o' clock at night, especially with all the projects that are going on. So yeah, that's kind of, it's all over the place. But if you can keep your morning routine structured from the beginning, then I feel like you're off to a good start.

So it's not all about just yeah, getting products, using them.

No, not at all the products. And using them is actually like probably the last thing that I focus on because that's normally either in the morning or the evening. Then I'll be like, okay, I need to test out these products, try them on. And then over a three week period you're like, right, okay, how did I find that? Review it at the end. So yeah, that's kind of the last thing.

I had a quick question. As a blogger, how kind of resilient do you have to be in terms of. So I mean like, so we're all in the kind of health wellness industry and I was chatting to someone the other day about how hard we work in that industry and a lot of that is also kind of our emotional health and well being. And sometimes like when you're on social media a lot and when you have email, sometimes there are the not so nice people and we've had experiences that Formula Botanica and sometimes, you know, they really, you don't want to really take them on board but you know, sometimes it is very upsetting and you know, we've got strategies for coping and managing with that now and that's great and we have a very supportive team. But I'm wondering like you by yourself essentially and you know, if you get those, you know, negative comments or someone who sends a really nasty email, you know, how do you manage that?

Firstly, I feel a little bit like it's. If it's somebody who's sending a nasty email, firstly the feedback that they're sending is it really super important. Is it the end of the world if you don't take on their feedback that they are sending? If it's coming? It's kind of a difficult question. I personally try not to take any negative feedback that comes on board if it's not constructive. Because if it's constructive. If it's constructive, then I will always look at it and think, okay, well, how many other people have said this feedback to me? And if it's a case of it's one person, then I'd be like, well, nobody. You're not for everybody. So that. And they're entitled to their opinion. If it's a case of like 10 people have said to me, you need to do this because it's not right, then I'll be like, okay, well, I probably need to work on that. But you're never like, you can't be liked by everybody. Like, even avocados can't be liked by everybody. So, you know, so it's just, I am a very big. Have a bit of a barrier where I'm like, if there's amazing feedback, that's awesome. If there's not great feedback, then awesome as well. Like, everybody's entitled to their opinion. But as long as I know my. My values and I know how I feel about what I am doing, then I'll take on board what they've said. But I won't let it get to me. There's a great book which I read recently called the Subtle Art of Not Giving a.

Yes.

Yeah, that one.

I've seen it around. It keeps popping up in my face everywhere I go.

I think you need to read it then the sign. But that is. It's basically all about, you need to decide what care and emphasis you give on what things. Because there's always going to be people, the past judgment about what you're doing or don't believe in what you're doing, or say certain things to you where they just have a different view to you and that's completely fine. Most of the time it kind of comes from a place of their own fear rather than yours. So you need to kind of send them a lot of love, forgive them if they've been really horrible, and then just let them go on their way. Like, you don't need to take that all on board. So it's a process. Like I. It is hard when you're on your own and you're just like, oh my God, this person's just said this to me. But for the most part I've not really had it. I think I've been quite lucky. There's been a few comments on say like YouTube or something or where they've been hilarious more than anything else. You know, where you're like, I need to take a screenshot of this and do a video of all the comments where people have been messing up nasty with a glass of wine because it would just make me laugh even more. But in terms of say, like a business, there has been feedback that I've had where I've been like, okay, well, I actually could have done that better. So you just kind of take it on board, take the good bits from it, leave the bad bits and just stay true to yourself. Really?

Yeah. I think that's really good advice and I hope whoever's listening that you take that on board because I know that a lot of our community and our followers, you know, they're women, often are working by themselves, trying to, you know, build their business from scratch. And, you know, I know and Lorraine knows how hard it can be when suddenly, you know, someone will send you a comment that is not flattering or, you know, really like you say, you know, kind of co spun in your dreams and it can be very disheartening. So I just, yeah, I hope everyone listens to what Alia says and tries to, you know, send them on their.

Way, forgive and just like let them go.

Okay, I'm gonna check if we've got any more questions. Okay, there's one quite interesting one that we can finish on. I know. So they've asked. It was Nelly. They've asked what are makes you interested in certain product? As a blogger and I know that you mentioned about the packaging and things, but they've asked about it. Could it be the ingredients, the country of origin or something else? Like what is the most appealing for you in skincare and what actually makes you want to collaborate with a certain company and maybe turn product into a hype?

Okay, great question. So like I said, the packaging is. I'm a sucker for packaging, but it doesn't have to be the most expensive, beautiful packaging in the entire world whatsoever. Some of the brands that I absolutely love have just got a brown bottle with a really simple white label around it with a pop of color. Like it's just. It's super simple, but it's sleek. So that's probably one thing that I look at also then say, like the website and social media just.

Is it.

Does it look good? Is it consistent? And yeah, just does it look inspiring? Unlike people want to work with that brand. The second thing I would say is for. In terms of origin, like, it doesn't really matter. The most important thing for me is if it works, I want to know that you've. It's been proven to work because I feel like there's so many brands out there now who. And this is no disrespect to where you're starting from. If you're listening and you're brand new, like, loads of people start off on the kitchen table. One of my very good friends in New Zealand started off there. So everybody has to start off somewhere. But I need to know that it works for my skin because I'm turning 35 this year. I've got hormonal acne from coming off the pill last year. And I am fed up of trying these lovely products, which they are very lovely for people whose skin is okay and they might have a little bit of dehydration. But I need something that's actually going to clear up my acne and really, really work. So if you can have those before and after pictures from people where, okay, they're not the prettiest thing to look at, but if you can have them somewhere on your website where you've got case studies that it's proven to work, then amazing. I want to know about that. I also want to know, like, yeah, ingredients are really important and definitely great to talk about them, but it's all about the results, really. And if you can show me that you can get results, then that's going to make me want to be interested in your product, particularly with hormonal acne right now. So say, for example, I. Over the last year, I've tried so many products which have said to help with hormonal acne. None of them have worked. And then I tried. I met up with a brand called Skin Owl and the owner is called Annie and she is over in the us, but she was over in the UK for a little bit of time, just kind of doing some work over here. So I met up with her and she took me for a coffee and I got on with her really well and I was telling her about my plight in awful skin. And she had created her range specifically for people with hormonal acne because she used to have really, really bad skin. So she was like, okay, I really need you just to try these two products. And I was a little bit hesitant about it because I'm like, I've just tried everything. I think I just need to, like, go to a dermatologist and get it Sorted. And so she was like, look, cut down on everything for the time being. Go and try these two products and see what you think. And within two weeks, my skin had got significantly better and I was like, finally, like, I want to get behind a brand that does products really well that really work. And this was one that was just phenomenal. And I ended up talking about it so much over on YouTube and the. She's had loads of great people buying and giving her feedback on it. And it's just if you can really show and tell people why you've put the ingredients in the products and why they work together and what the outcome is going to be, and oh, by the way, here's a case study about it of how it's worked super well for these people, then I think that's a really, really great start and you just can't go wrong with that, especially if it's been proven.

Yeah, great advice. Okay, I think that was it for our questions. Did you have anything else that you wanted to add? Words of encouragement, support, or, I don't know, some final tips?

Just, firstly, thank you so much for having me. It's been really fun and I hope I've not waffled on too much.

No, not at all.

And secondly, just I think what you guys are doing is absolutely incredible. Like, I love what you're trying to achieve and helping everybody with their dreams is such an awesome job and an awesome feeling and an awesome business. So congrats on that. And then for anybody who's just like, at the beginning of their journey or at the middle, like, just go for it. Be unapologetic about what you want to achieve and what you want to do. Like, this is your life. It's not a rehearsal. So just go for it. You'll face more no's than you will do yeses, but that is completely fine. So just go for it.

Well, thanks so much for joining us. Eilish and I will include all of Ailish's details and links to the Glow Summit and all of her stuff in the show notes for this podcast, so please do check it out. Thank you, Ailish.

Thank you.

I really hope that you found this interview with Eilish useful and if you had any comments or feedback as usual, we would love to hear them again. Head over to formulabotanica.com and check out our free sample class if you're interested in giving natural and organic cosmetic formulation a try. Thank you again for listening to our podcast and thank you for your time.

Sam.