EP12. Meet Gaffer and Child: A Californian Dream of Gender-Neutral Skincare

Hello and welcome to the Formula Botanica Green Beauty Conversations podcast. If you want to find out a little bit more about our award winning online organic and natural skincare and hair care courses, head over to formulabotanica.com and try out our sample class. In this episode, I speak to another inspiring brand owner called Grigor from Gaffer and Child, which is based in California in the US and we talk about quitting the 925 and pursuing your dream and gender neutral skincare. Enjoy. Hello and welcome. Gregor.

Hi. Thank you for having me.

It's an absolute pleasure. I know we've been trying to arrange this interview for a little while and I'm glad we finally got a date set because when I was contacted about your brand, I thought it sounded really, really interesting. And it's always great to have an inspirational guest on the podcast.

It's really nice where, you know, I started this four years ago and people are interested and this is just been my passion project and something that I've been doing with all my heart for such a long time. And it's, it's nice that we're getting a little bit of recognition for what we do today.

Yes. Good. So without further ado, why don't you tell everybody, introduce yourself and tell everybody about your brand and what you do.

Okay. So I'm Grigor. I'm the founder of Gaffer and Child. It's a project that started around four years ago when I was having. I was really disappointed with our options in the organic skincare industry. I found that products were either not clean or clean and not effective. So I went in there and at home I was mixing my own skincare products and I stopped buying things from the store. And that sort of worked a little bit until I started creating this line and teaming up with a really good chemist that has 20 years experience in the industry and formulated the set based off of things that I was mixing at home and ingredients I was using at home. And we took to the farmers markets with it four years ago. So I was at the farmers markets in Venice beach in the LA area, just selling the product and in person.

Yeah, just connecting with people.

Connecting with people. And it made me feel so alive when I was doing it. I mean, at the time when I started, I was. I remember I was going to the office Monday through Friday, like a regular 9 to 5.

Yeah.

Like most people have. And I'd worked my way up in that industry. I had a reputable position for a great company. And on the weekends I would go with My dolly and my easy up to the farmers markets. And there were points in time where I thought, like, I was questioning my sanity, like, what are you doing? But I just had faith that things would work out eventually.

Yeah. And they have, haven't they? I think so far it's been.

The response has been overwhelming. People have been so warm and appreciative. And also right now, as we're growing as well, we're trying to improve as a brand, not with our offerings, but more with our messaging, because I've noticed we've gained a bit of popularity recently. So I think it's important that our message is accurate and we're using the space responsibly because it is, you know, we're part of your morning regimen, your morning routine. And this is a line that's not just for men, but it's for men and women. And it could also be shared with children because it's clean.

Yeah.

So we've teamed up with some great people and we have some exciting changes that are coming up and I'm excited for you guys to all see them.

Yes. I mean, one of the things that attracted me when I was looking at the website and everything was firstly, the packaging, because it's quite eye catching. But secondly, your slogan, which is conscious skincare for mindful living, which I thought was quite interesting. And I was kind of mulling that over a bit. And so what does that mean? Like, what message do you want to get across with that? And, you know, how did you come up with it? You know, what were you thinking about when that kind of popped into mind?

It was, you know, the morning regimen is a powerful one and I have one. You know, a lot of people have morning routines and regimens. But one thing that's consistent is everyone, for the most part, a lot of people are washing their face in the mornings or doing something skin care related before they leave out the door.

So.

So I said, this is a powerful area of someone's life that we can influence in a positive way, get them involved with what it is we're doing. We're sourcing ingredients from small family farms. So if you're using our products in the morning, you're helping with that. Cause, you know, I grew up in the pre iPhone era where we didn't have phones around. And a lot of my friends know me these days. If I'm in a personal setting with a friend or we're going out to grab lunch, I put my phone face down and I'm really, really busy. But when I'm there, I like to be present and I just wanted to bring some of that warmth back to people and giving them products that are really personal, high vibrational, full of good, positive energy. That's why it's a vegan line as well. I've been vegetarian since I was 16. I went to veganism. I think it was like towards the beginning of this business when I started is when I went full, full blown vegan. And it wasn't really that difficult because for me it was more a question of values and what works for me. And I feel like vegan living is. I can't find the word.

It's.

It's not just conscious, but I don't know why I'm blanking. It's an ethical thing where we're not harming any animals, we're not doing any animal testing, we're just putting out good. And I feel like when you put good out into the universe, it provides essentially and it takes care of us. So it's all about putting out good energy with everything that we're doing. And that's why the changes are coming too, and because we want to put more of that good message out there so people understand. Because what we're doing is very different. I don't know if our packaging currently reflects that. I mean, it is nice, it looks nice, but it's not reflecting what we're about as a brand. And that's important to me.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it does. When I looked at it, certainly together with the website and together with the messages, it did kind of convey to me how important veganism and sustainability were to the brand. And that's another thing that I want to ask you about because obviously it's very, very closely related to gaffer and child. And you know, you can see it on the website and obviously when you have spoken, I've read some of your other interviews, you, your mention about how close those sorts of things are to you and what you're doing. So I mean, do you feel that your products kind of address sustainability in the move towards using less waste? And I know that you said you sourced the ingredients from, you know, and organically grown. Yeah. So because there's a big drive here at the moment for kind of zero waste and I know certainly based where you are as well, waste is becoming more and more of a thing. And, you know, as we, like you say, as people move towards veganism and sustainability to address the issues of waste, I mean, how do you feel like gaffer and child is that A part of your values as well.

It is. That's why. Well, we use glass in most of our packaging because it's recyclable. We're using the amber glass. It's. All of our packaging is recyclable at the end of the day. But I feel like we could be doing even better.

Okay.

I'm someone that's always. I'm hard on myself, and I have really high standards for the business and the business we're running as well. And I think we're a young brand who's growing, and it's important to keep improving. And, yeah, that's an area we could do even better. Like, our pomade is in a box. Is that necessary? Not really. You know, we could come up with another way to deliver this that would be a little bit more sustainable and reduce our packaging waste and things of that nature. And, yeah, we're not perfect, but we're trying really hard to improve constantly. I think that's where my approach is a little different. Instead of putting out 20 different products and saying, here's a special cream for the inside of your elbow, we're giving people general use products that they can incorporate into any routine. So a woman could take one product from the line and incorporating into her routine, and instead of coming out with a million different things, we're just trying to improve ourselves with our messaging, with our packaging, with our beliefs and our values. I think that's the important part.

Yeah. And I think it's interesting that you've mentioned about. Because a part of zero waste is obviously a drive to simplify our lives. And so, yeah, having a smaller range but with products that really, really work and are effective is probably addresses some of those issues anyway in terms of zero waste and trying to be more sustainable. Because like you say, you know, the cost of producing 25 different products and the waste associated with that, is that necessary?

It's not. It doesn't make sense. Like, our facial oil is great for everywhere or hydrating serum. It's a good facial moisturizer. It's a great aftershave because of the lavender essential oil that's in there a lot of women use as a primer before applying foundation. Our face wash is a makeup remover and face wash. In one, the shaving butter could be used as a lotion. It absorbs nicely into the skin. When you need something a little heavier, it's a great lotion. So a lot of times when I was creating products or when we were designing the line, we wanted to create these products. That were multi use, multifunctional. The facial scrub is another one too. That's great for face. It could be used on the body if you'd like to. It's great on the lips. It actually tastes really pleasant and it's safe. So you're not worried if you get a little bit in your mouth? So, yeah, I think that definitely works on efficiency and we're kind of a brand that's a zero fluff and not too much. We want to be straight to the point and we want to give people what they need and that's it. And aside from that, just make sure we're putting a good message out there to the world. Leaving something behind that's better than what people have today.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. You know, I, when I was looking at your website, I was thinking it was kind of designed more for men, but then when we were talking, it's obviously it's a unisex brand and is even suitable for children. So. So that in itself is quite interesting. I mean, did you set out to when you first conceived of doing this and you were kind of making your own products in your kitchen or wherever? I mean, did you think, oh, I want to start a nail line or did it kind of evolve? And you thought, well, these products are so good, everyone could use them. It doesn't have to be, you know, gender specific.

Right. Well, you know, obviously when I was making my own products at home, I was making them for myself. So I would add certain fragrances that I gravitated towards. At the time I was really into patchouli, so I was playing with patchouli. But we moved to lavender and I really like lavender for its scent and also functionality. It helps act as a preservative, natural preservative. It's actually a naturally antimicrobial antibacterial. So I find it keeps the skin clear, it also reduces redness, calms the skin and it's therapeutic. So that's why we incorporated the lavender. You're going to smell it throughout the range, but it's not a fragrance. It's the actual essential oil. So it makes it pleasant, but it does dissipate. So we're fragrance free, essentially. And when I was designing the line, you know, I grew up very close to my mom and she's someone that taught me the value of self care and taking care of yourself, not for vanity reasons, but like, you know, you want to make sure you're working on your fitness and you're eating right and you're improving yourself and you're using clean ingredients. And that came from my mom and I was really involved with skincare growing up and she never told me it was for men or women or whatever. And I make products today that we both use. My mom loves our line, she uses it daily. She always calls me, bring me your serum. You know, like I ran out again. And that's really just like a moisturizer, just a no fuss daily moisturizer that's super light, absorbs nicely to the skin, it's not going to leave you greasy. It's a great tool. I always have it in my bag too.

Yeah, just for everyone. Yeah. So you can, yeah, just. And it's in quite a small bottle as well, so you could just take it on the go. You know, like you said, if you're working on your fitness and you're gonna have a quick shower at the gym, you know, straight on afterwards.

Right. Or if you're, I mean, moisturizer. Is that one thing people ask me, you know, do you, what do you suggest as far as skin care and, and things of that nature? And my approach to skincare has been much the same really. No fuss. I think the best skincare is like diet, exercise and actually you don't even want to be washing your face every day. If you're not wearing makeup, there's no reason to wash your face every day. So I tell a lot of people that and it's great because you know, right now we're in Erewhon market and it's really nice because sometimes like the teens will come in with their moms and their moms are trying to find them a skincare product to clean up their face. And I'm doing all my own in store demos so I'll go in store and meet with the customers. And I'm so grateful for the opportunity of being able to shape someone's skincare routine and tell them, look, you don't want to use all this industrial strength stuff on your skin, you want to be gentle with your skin. But you do want to moisturize every day. Yeah, moisturizing is a non negotiable but face washing, I don't, I think it's just too much.

So do you find that you actually get a lot of teen interest? Because I guess people have considered that a difficult market to crack in terms of like the kind of green beauty. So it's interesting that you say you get families come in with teenagers wanting to talk to you. Do you see that happening more and more now?

Well, I see it more and more, but then again, the store that I'm in is kind of different demographic as well. Like the people, like, what is it? The Kardashians go grocery shopping at Erewhon Market. And they have a lot of celebrity clientele, so most of the clientele are they have the means financially. And it's a little bit different too. Like, when I was younger, my mom wouldn't take me to Erewhon to go buy skincare. Just being honest, we didn't. Yeah. So with teenagers, I think the line is a little bit. It's not really geared so much with our branding and everything else towards teenagers, I feel like. And that's where I feel like we could do better as well, because we're creating skincare for everyone. This is not just for men, it's for everyone. And we've opened a number of kids. Like, there's a kids salon on the east coast in New York called Milk and Cookies. And it's nice that they used our products at opening. And it's a kids salon and they can because they're safe. But that's kind of the direction we're going in. The next. I think it's this year we'll be working on it. I've actually got the next couple months. We'll be wrapping it up. We're in the creative process right now, so you guys will be seeing that very soon. And it's a really exciting time for me. I've gotten the opportunity to team up with some people in the industry that I look up to as mentors and draw inspiration from. And we're working together on this new set, making sure our messaging is on point and the packaging is along with it. So I'm excited to be able to share that with everyone soon.

Yeah, I mean, interestingly, obviously, the kind of green beauty sector and the green beauty movement has typically been dominated by women. Whereas, I think, you know, at one point, you know, male skincare and male grooming and the idea of men really indulging in self care was sort of a bit vilified in the mainstream, you know, that all that stuff is not for men, which is obviously a horrible message and, you know, shouldn't have been promoted at all. And we are seeing, I mean, our students are kind of 98% female, but we are seeing more and more men coming into this market and wanting to develop skincare. And we did a really interesting interview a couple of weeks ago with Josh from the Regal Gentleman, which is a brand here in the uk, and they Were talking about, you know, when they first started telling their friends that they want to start a male grooming range, it was a bit like, oh really? I mean, do you see that changing now? You know, it becoming kind of more, you know, this as the ideas of masculine and feminine break down a bit more in our society that, you know, men are becoming more interested in their self care and their grooming regimens.

I mean, to be honest with you, I always gotten a lot of resistance while I was growing up and I kind of grew up in a traditional household where, you know, it wasn't masculine to be into skincare and it was kind of vain for me. It was never about that. Skincare was always like self healing and you know, when you're going through a hard time, life, you know, life is stressful, things happen. And when you do a mask, you feel good. You know, a man or a woman, like you feel good and why are you gonna deprive yourself feeling good? So I've always been the type of person that relies on self care to help kind of weather the storm.

Yeah.

And incorporated some sort of routine to keep some sort of organization in my life. And yeah, all the hardest points of my life that I've been through, I remember like I relied on self care and routine regimen and working on myself, improving myself, getting to know myself to get myself through those issues. You know, a lot of times in today's world I find, and what's worse, you know, you're going through a hard time, you're going to go out and party and be self destructive or you're going to dive within. And I think that's so hard to do for a lot of people these days because there's so much noise. But sometimes we just have to quiet the noise and search within for answers. You know, don't be so codependent. A lot of friends know me a lot of time. My biggest relationship advice for people when they're going through a hard time or if they went through a breakup is okay, now start dating yourself for a little bit.

Yeah.

And spend some time with yourself and really get to know yourself. And that's kind of what the skincare line is about too. You know, just giving you tools to get in touch with yourself every day. But yeah, going back to it, growing up it for me to have a skincare line today is so liberating because I've always grown up with the stigma of skincare is not for men. Or if you're a man, you don't know anything about women's. Skin care and doing it. So what are you going to say now? You know, and it's funny because the people that were kind of always gave me a hard time have now become my biggest supporters. You know, people that are close to me. I'm not going to mention any names, but they've become my biggest supporters. And it's great because I am now being myself 100% and I'm able to express myself without any inhibitions. And I have people that support me for that and it's great. And I feel really grateful for that too, that I was able to shift their perspective and open mind a little bit.

That's really good.

I think it's good that men are getting into it because self care is not just for women, it's for everybody.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We feel ashamed of kind of breaking through the stereotypes of what, you know, the mainstream says is, you know, one thing or isn't another. Like you say, it's for everybody. So before we, we finish our interview, I just wondered if you would chat a little bit about how you got the name for your brand. Because we were talking a little bit before we started recording this and you were telling me an interesting story, so perhaps you could let us know.

So you were telling me you were from England and growing up we've been huge football support in my house. And the house is torn three ways where my dad's a Manchester United fan, my brother's a Liverpool fan and I'm the Chelsea fan. But we grew up with this, waking up at 4 in the morning to watch the games together because here they start really early. But I remember growing up they'd always be calling the coach the gaffer. The gaffer. And we use the word gaffer in reference to a mentor and gaffer and child. Sort of illustrates our very first relationship with skincare, which comes from our mentors. For me, it was. I remember my grandfather had taught me how to shave and I don't know if these brands are still around. Well, I know Old Spice aftershave is still there. That was my first aftershave Barbasol shaving cream. Then they had this grease for hair. It was like brill cream. Those were my first products. And what I wanted to create was a range where adults can use it and then they could turn around and show their kids what to use and this is what they should be using. So it was important that it was timeless in a way and it was gender neutral so both men and women can use it and pass this on and along with passing it on, they're gonna pass on the values of gaffer and child and the brand and what we're all about. So I saw it as a great opportunity to put something good in this world that can be passed on from generation to generation. A good friend of mine, he just got married and there was. I was at the wedding, and I see he's with his son and they're getting ready, and he pulls the pomade out of his shirt jacket and starts fixing his son's hair with it. And I'm like, that's what we're about. Because his son is going to remember a gaffer and child when his dad first put it on him, and he's going to use the growing up. And we've already got someone else converted at that point, because we're doing sustainable products that are vegan, organic. They're good for you, they're good for the environment, and you're using them every day and you're supporting that cause and we're making that shift together. So that's what I wanted to do with the skincare. I look at it like it's a valued space. You know, people have brought me into their homes, into a very intimate space, into a very important time of their day, the morning, which sets out the tone for the rest of your day. And it's important to me that we're really responsible with that space and we're giving them something of value and something they could pass on to their kids.

Yeah, that's what. It's such a nice story.

I was a philosophy undergrad, so I tend to be a little bit chatty, so I apologize if I talk too much.

No, no, absolutely fine. We want people to talk. This is a space which you can talk. I mean, it's such a lovely story. Yeah. To be able to, like you say, to have that link and to remember those first products that you use, because I'm sure we can all remember. Like, you know, you have your Old Spice and whatever. I can remember, you know, what my mom and my dad used or they showed me, you know.

Right. You still know what those are.

I do.

And when you see them in the store, you almost want to buy them still, but, you know, they're not good for you. Well, I don't know. Some of them might be.

Yeah. No.

Yeah.

But it's just like. Yeah, you might have moved on, but you have a memory of it. Yeah. And it's. It stay.

It makes you feel good. So what if we could create products that make people feel Good. Give you that nostalgic feeling. But it's still good for the environment and it's still a move in the right direction. So we're kind of doing it.

Yeah.

It'S fun. It's really exciting. Like, I can't believe that you're calling me to talk to me about something that I started, like four years ago just out of. I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it.

Yeah.

I was getting older. I didn't have kids yet, and I was just like, if you don't do it now, when are you gonna do it and just try it out? Who knows? I wasn't thinking it would be anywhere near where we're at today. And I'm so grateful that we are. And every day I'm even more. I mean, we just gotta. What is it? Erewhon Marcus displaying our product right now. They have a full wall with our product on there. And I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, that's the line. This is happening.

I've done it.

So I'm still trying to get used to that because I'm just, you know, I'm a regular guy and I. I'm just had a passion for skincare and now I get to share it with people, and I'm so grateful for that.

That's really nice. It was so nice talking to you and hearing all about your stories and accompanying this episode or show notes. So everyone will be able to find Grigor through the social media channels and the website details and everything that I'll be posting together with the show notes. So I just wanted to say thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you so much to Grigor for joining us and talking about his experiences with starting a skincare brand. If you want to check out or try the gaffer and child products, head over to gafferandchild.com and enter. Enter the discount code FB40. That's FB40 for your exclusive discount. Thank you for joining us and thank you for listening again. We really appreciate all of your feedback and your input. It's so lovely to hear from our listeners. If you want to find out a little bit more about Formula Botanica, then head over to formulabotanica.com you can also find us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter ormulabatanica. Thank you. Bye, Sam.