EP141. Celebrity beauty brands

Last week I received a press release from a dermatologist who was analyzing the skin of the British royal family. Now, my initial response was to laugh out loud and say, why on earth do I need to know this? And so I read the press release and I was still none the wiser. But I still read it, despite knowing that I wasn't going to feature it anywhere. Because I, like everyone else, am fascinated by celebrities. And celebrities, of course, realize this. They're business people and they monetize their platform, many of them in the beauty industry. So while celebrities used to market perfumes with their names to them, that has now shifted to the rise of the celebrity beauty brand. It really started in the early 90s, and if we look at that timeline, we can now see people like Cindy Crawford, Rihanna, Jennifer Aniston, Kim Kardashian, Kylie Jenner, Drew Barrymore, Tyra Banks, and Jessica Alba who've all started their own beauty brands over the last three decades. Some of them have done really well, some of them have totally flopped, and some of them are now no longer with us because their brands are closed. And there have been rumblings about celebrity beauty brands for years, with some people grumbling a bit in the background about them using their status to generate more wealth. Now, that grumbling turned into, I suppose, a loud shouting a few months ago when a group of indie beauty brands decided that enough is enough and they wrote an open letter to Brad Pitt to complain. This was then picked up by the media and everyone started having the discussion about whether it's fair that celebrities can start beauty brands so easily. So is it fair? Well, stay tuned and settle in for today's full episode where Anna Green and I will be exploring whether celebrities have a place in beauty. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make or sell your green beauty formula formulations. In my weekly episodes, I explore the sustainability of the beauty industry and encourage you to join me in changing the beauty industry for the better. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallnayer. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school, Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 180 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. And if you want to be the first person to know what's happening in green beauty, and I know you do, make sure you subscribe to this podcast in your favorite podcast app. So in today's episode, I'm joined by Anna Green, education manager at Formula Botanica and long term beauty industry expert. If you're a regular listener, you'll know that Anna is often on the podcast with me and has many valuable opinions that we all benefit from. So I am thrilled to welcome her back today. Hi Anna, welcome back to the podcast. How are you doing today?

Hi Lorraine, I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.

It's always lovely to chat to you. And today's topic I think is going to be quite controversial, so let's get stuck in. What has all the upset been about and what's happened?

There's been a lot of talk on social media about celebrity skincare ranges and a bit of backlash towards certain celebrities, not all certain celebrities bringing out specifically skincare lines. Actually. I think it's worth pointing out though that celebrities have always had alternative business interests. They've always invested in things outside of acting. It's something that has always existed and they've always had a clear advantage when it comes to sort of accessing certain industries in terms of their privilege and cash essentially to be able to set up a business. So it's not something that's new. Celebrities have been faces of things like perfume brands and fragrance brands for a very long time. However, it's specifically skincare that seems to have set people off in the industry. Their involvement in skincare that really seems to have touched a nerve. And there's been some social media posts, some open letters to certain celebrities about their involvement in the industry. Specifically, people like Brad Pitt have been singled out and people essentially saying, look, this is an industry that takes a lot of hard work, a lot of dedication and we don't want you just coming into our industry and essentially taking over. I think people are feeling a little bit overwhelmed by the amount of brands that are launching and I know a lot of smaller brands are feeling the economic climate and everything that's happening. So there has been this backlash towards these celebrity skincare brands that's happened and it caused a lot of chatter on social media.

It's been really interesting to watch actually, because I'd say it's been building. And then it got to the point that about three or four celebrity brands launched at the same time. And at that point everyone just went, ah, really unhappy about this. And as you said, there was an open letter that was written by a number of indie beauty brands, which I have to say that as of the time of recording in November, that website isn't working at the moment. So I'm. I'm not quite sure what happened there. I guess the other question I have for you then is, are there really that many celebrity beauty brands out there?

There are. I mean, this isn't a new phenomenon either. So if we look at, for example, clean beauty and natural beauty and we sort of single those two categories out, you've got people like Miranda Kerr. She's a model. She launched Cora Organics. She was one of the sort of founding brands, really, of the natural beauty industry. You've also got Jessica Albert, who founded Honest Beauty. Again, these are brands that have not just suddenly popped out of nowhere. They've been around for some time. And then, of course, you've got Gwyneth Paltrow and Goop, and you can't. You can't talk about celebrity skincare without mentioning Gwyneth Paltrow. But just this year, we've had Brad Pitt launch a brand called Ledermain. We've had Jared Leto also launch a brand Kim Kardashian has launched. We've had all sorts of other people launch brands. So there seems to have been an influx in 2022. I don't know whether that's because we're post pandemic and people are looking for things to do, but, you know, there definitely seems to have been an influx of celebrities that you wouldn't necessarily associate with skincare. I mean, Jared Leto looks great for his age, but I wouldn't necessarily associate him with having a skincare brand. The same with Brad Pitt. I never knew he had any interest in skincare until he's obviously launched. So I think this is where people have got a little bit upset because there's been an influx of brands that seem to have come out of nowhere. But as I've said, there are so many in the industry that fly under the radar because they're. They're already quite well established. So, Lorraine, as a business owner who runs a school, teaching people, other entrepreneurs, how to start beauty brands, how do you feel about celebrities being able to start a brand so easily?

It's a really good question because that was one of the criticisms that was also levied against some of these celebrities in this open letter that was written. I sit there and I go, well, if you have to have a background in beauty in order to do this, doesn't that preclude a lot of people who are starting beauty brands? And I instantly feel very protective then of our graduates at Formula Botanica who want to start beauty brands and many of Them come from a whole different range of backgrounds. You know, they might have worked in healthcare, they might have worked in education, they might have done something completely different and ended up thinking, you know what, I want to launch a beauty brand. I mean, I used to design onshore wind farms and I wanted to, you know, start my own beauty brand. It doesn't necessarily matter. So I do think that a lot of these celebrities, and you said this at the beginning, you know, they want to capitalize on their brand. They want to create longevity beyond this world of entertainment that is notoriously fickle, because as a celebrity you can be cancelled at the drop of a hat. If social media takes against something that you said, people get really upset about that and that might have a knock on effect in terms of the roles you can get. Also, as we know, once you get to a certain age as a woman, you're not necessarily cast as the love interest anymore. You're going to be the mother or the grandmother and then the roles may well dry up. And we've certainly seen this with TV anchors here in the UK for instance, who reach a certain age and then they're no longer really needed because ultimately they don't fulfill that set role that people put for women, how they have to look and act at a certain age. So I understand that celebrities want to create a business for themselves. They want to create longevity. And ultimately celebrities are also business people. I mean, if we look at Rihanna's Fenty Beauty, for instance, I was reading about this this morning, her brand has generated more wealth for her than her actual music career. That is incredible. I mean, it's been valued, I think at about a billion dollars, which is absolutely enormous. I think celebrities. I'm not here to defend all celebrities because they can speak for themselves, but I do think it's a little bit unfair to sort of go, you have to have a background in beauty in order to work in this industry. Because that criticism can be levied at anyone. And I'm sure many of the smaller entrepreneurs who don't come from beauty may well feel the criticism as well when someone says that. But I will say that any brand that is set up, regardless of whether it's a celebrity setting it up or a smaller business owner, I think that brand should be meaningful and I think it should have purpose. And I've been talking to a lot of different brand owners about this at the moment and they all say so as well. You don't just bring a moisturizer to market because you want to. You bring it to market because it has a differentiator to it. We've seen this with our graduate Sandra from nopalera, for instance. I mean, she's launched with a handful of products and has just raised $2.7 million in investment funding. You know, she's being featured in Times and Forbes and all these incredible magazines and she's doing that. That's happening because of what she stands for, because of her values. I would even say it's almost disconnected from the products. It's the fact that she has meaning and purpose behind what she does. And that I think should apply to anyone starting a beauty brand, whether they are a celebrity or not. So these celebrities also need to know what their values are and what they stand for.

Yes, I totally agree. It is a case of people wanting something meaningful and people understanding when somebody puts something to market and it's not meaningful, I think people really pick up on that. So I definitely agree with that point.

So who do you think we should define as a celebrity for this discussion? Because after all, you know, influencers might be celebrities. They could start a beauty brand as well.

Yeah, they can and they do. And there are many, many influencers. Skincare brands. I did sort of a bit of a search for this podcast and there's a huge amount of influencers that have launched their own brands off the back of building their following first. So anybody, I think, with influence online could be classed as a celebrity these days because they have influence. They, you know, they're well known, they have their own platform. They might not have a profession like acting, for example, but they, you know, building their own platform. So we have people like Naomi Smart, for example, who was an influencer online. She's gone on and she's launched her own skincare brand. She's in Natural Beauty world. We've got somebody called Hiram. He launched Skincare by Hiram. He was really big on YouTube and, you know, created his own sort of following and launched his skincare off the back of that. And then we've got examples that are a bit closer to home. So, for example, our very own graduates by B Beauty built their platform as influencers before they went on to launch their brand. And I think this probably gave them a lot of good insight into social media marketing, building their name, you know, and all sorts of other skills that they need for building their brand. And they studied with us to learn to formulate. And look at them now, they're, you know, they're stocked around the world. They've done amazingly well. So I think in terms of creating a Brand, having built an audience before that you can market your products to, obviously has a definite advantage. It's not going to be the strategy that everybody takes, but it's, you know, it's a strategy that many influencers use. They realize they built that influence, they build their platform and then they realize, actually I can now pursue interests, whether that be skincare or whether that be another business, because they have a platform to market that to. So, yeah, anybody, I think with, with influence can also be classed as a celebrity. We have seen some criticism of certain influencer skincare ranges exactly the same sort of thing. You know, if they lack authenticity, if they don't feel right for that particular person, but then there's lots of others where somebody's launched something that they're clearly passionate about and that sort of flies under the radar because, you know, people don't feel threatened by that because they're clearly doing something that they really are invested in.

Yeah, that makes complete sense. Ultimately, people who have a platform want to monetize it. If I had a platform with 10 million followers, who knows, I might have my own skincare brand. I mean, it makes sense, doesn't it? If that's something that you think people want to buy from you and you can bring that meaning and value behind it, why not?

Absolutely. So Lorraine, why do you think we're singling out celebrities in this discussion? What is it about celebrities that have got people, you know?

Yeah, well, you touched a little bit on it already by, by just saying that people sort of look at it and go, you have all this head start in terms of money and connections and brand and the face and everyone knows you. And let's face it, celebrities do. Influencers do as well. You know, you mentioned some of the influencers out there who have millions of followers. So they start from a, a place that's slightly ahead in the race, I suppose. And some people maybe think that's unfair. And I think also celebrities can be an easy target because they're well known. You could apply this criticism to a very wealthy person entering the industry as well by saying they have all the connections and the money and they can afford to have their own fancy packaging made in high minimum order quantities. But I think it's worth also pointing out that celebrity beauty brands aren't necessarily guaranteed to succeed because there will be many flops along the way. And I know there have been already. And it depends entirely on whether they get it right. And that's where that authenticity factor comes in. I also think celebrities are singled out because they seem to elicit such a strong emotional response from people. People seem to be either horrified or thrilled. And I find that fascinating because, let's face it, the majority of people out there worship at this altar of celebrity. I mean, we've created this monster, right? The whole reason that celebrity brands generate so much interest is because people are fascinated to know how they live their lives and how they got to where they are. Last week, for instance, I received a press release from a dermatologist analysing the Royal Family's skin. And it's just ridiculous. I laughed out loud when I got it. But, you know, we've created this monster. And I should also add, the beauty industry has been complicit in this all along. I mean, think about all the celebs that we've watched promote big cosmetics brands over the years, and then they stand there and they tell us that their photoshopped skin or their shiny curtains of hair are, you know, worth it. Celebrity sells, basically, and it's been selling for over a hundred years. I mean, if we go back in history, the first woman to promote a cosmetic, or in fact, any commercial product was the actress Lily Langtree, who began advertising and putting her name to pears soap in 1882. So this has been going on for quite a long time. I think one of the main criticisms, though, is that celebrities, or many of these celebrities, don't necessarily use their own products and aren't necessarily hugely interested in them. And for them it's just a business venture. And I get that. And when you work in the industry and you see someone treat your industry basically as an investment vehicle, I can understand that that might grate a little bit. But I wonder, does everyone who works at l' Oreal or Clinique use their own products as well? Is that a prerequisite to working there? Is it a prerequisite for anyone starting a business in the beauty industry? I would argue that it probably isn't. I can understand that it makes you more authentic as an indie beauty brand, but I'm not going to go out and criticize celebrities for not necessarily using their own products all the time. It's a business for many of these people and it's a business for many other people in the industry as well. So. And I should add, I also think that celebrity skincare brands can create this illusion that celebrity has gained their amazing, flawless skin as a result of using the products that they're selling, when some of them might be using cosmetic procedures or fillers. And I've seen people criticise them for that too. But I will say I think this probably applies more to women because of course, we're always singled out far more for our appearance than men. So I do have some sympathy for both sides of this debate. But ultimately, I think that complaining about celebrities in the beauty industry is just fighting a losing battle. And honestly, we're probably all better placed to focus our energies elsewhere. What do you think?

Yes, I would agree. As we've already said, you know, celebrity skincare and celebrity brands are not something new. And, you know, I think there's lots of other issues in the industry that would be better placing our energy in sort of looking at really well.

So one of the criticisms that's been repeated, and I know I just covered some of this, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. People say that it's not right that people with no experience at the beauty industry should start a celebrity beauty brand. In fact, the open letter to Brad Pitt, let me read some of it to you. It even went as far as saying, you, dear celebrities, have no experience in this industry. You've never interned in this industry or started as a low level employee. You will never have to haul your day's orders to the post office or learn to code your own website. You will never not sleep because you don't know how you're going to pay your staff or for your inventory. But you will get recognition because you are a celebrity. We can't waltz into your industry and star in a movie. So do you think this is a fair criticism?

Well, I think this is a criticism bigger than just skincare. I think this is a criticism of privilege and life. And, you know, celebrities have a certain amount of privilege that means that they can walk into an industry. But as you've already pointed out, it doesn't mean they're going to be successful. It doesn't mean people are going to automatically buy, because we know that launching a brand is one thing, making a brand have longevity is a different thing entirely. I understand why it would be upsetting to see somebody apparently waltz into your industry and have an easy time. The reality is we don't know what goes on behind other people's brands in some ways as well. We don't know how hard people have had to work, what kind of involvement they have in the brands. I mean, I think every celebrity will be different there. So I think lumping everybody into, you know, the same basket is a little bit unfair. And I do think that I said this before, but the criticism isn't being weighted equally across all celebrities. And I think that is because it's not purely about somebody's celebrity status, it's about that authenticity and people becoming increasingly skeptical, I think, of people entering into business purely to make money. And I know that sounds strange because business is about money, but I think people are expecting more from businesses now. They're expecting businesses to have a purpose, a higher meaning, and really be driven by passion and, you know, wanting to do good rather than purely making a profit. I think it also ties in with the ongoing drive towards sustainability, being more eco friendly. You know, people want to see people who are passionate about what they do in an industry that makes sense. And if someone is the face of a perfume brand, for example, it seems to be widely accepted that that doesn't mean that they will have anything to do with the product or actually running the company. They're simply the face of the brand. Whereas the criticism raised of certain celebrity beauty brands here imply that being the face of a skincare brand, if you're not involved in other areas, such as product development and other areas of brand, that that's problematic. Whereas isn't for something like perfume, for example. I found that interesting because we're sort of making a distinction between different parts of the beauty industry and what's acceptable and what isn't. Something you've also picked up on as well is that celebrities have access to top dermatologists and procedures that are out of the price range. For most people, their faces are part of their brands and so a lot of effort goes into maintaining those faces. However, it does make it a little bit harder to sell when they tell us that their skincare ranges are all they use, because for the most part, we know that not to be true. They will be showered in gifts from all the expensive beauty brands in goodie bags at awards events. They will have access to cosmetic surgery and all the latest procedures, and they won't have to pay for a lot of that either. A lot of that will just be gifted to them so that, you know, clinics can use it as part of their promotion, for example. So skin care is part of a much larger equation when it comes to their looks. And so I think that ties in with the authenticity element that we're talking about. People are skeptical about whether these products work because obviously they have access to so much that we don't have access to. So it's an incredibly tricky thing. So I think ultimately my conclusion is that what people are objecting to here is the privilege, the privilege of being able to walk into any industry and work in it because you have a certain amount of money and status. But unfortunately, this is the nature of the world that we live in. And it does not mean that if you don't have this privilege, you can't still create an amazingly successful beauty brand. Because we actually, we have many, many graduates that are proof that it can be done even without a celebrity status. So I don't want people to feel discouraged.

I think that's such a lovely point to make and I'm really glad you made that, because you're right, it doesn't matter if you're a celebrity or not. If you have a mission that is bigger than yourself, and so many of the graduates in the Formula Botanica community that we've met do, then you can absolutely turn that into a very successful brand. And I don't think we really need to get too worried about celebrities. But, you know, who am I to say?

Absolutely. Absolutely. So as an industry, should we be worried about celebrity beauty brands? Let's finish off there.

Well, I've just answered that one. And you have a little bit as well. I don't think so. But, you know, I may yet be proven wrong. I do understand it's a tough economic time at the moment for everyone, and I can completely understand that when you look at others entering the industry who have lots of money and status, you might just go, ugh, why are you here? This isn't right. I've got it hard enough as it is. Why do you need to add to my problems? But I also think some of these brands, not all of them, but some of them are incredibly expensive as well. So they won't necessarily be competing with many of the smaller brands. You know, I looked at Brad Pitt's Le Domain Skincare this morning. His serum costs 290 pounds. I mean, what is that? 330 US dollars? Something like that. It's a ridiculous sum to pay for a serum. But, you know, he's not necessarily competing with the people who are selling their serums for $50 or $30 or whatever price tag you want to put on it that's smaller. So I don't think the beauty industry is going to be fundamentally changed as a result of celebrity brands. We need to just let this one go and focus on the sustainability aspect, which you also raised earlier. And I also think ultimately, if people are upset about celebrities and you don't want to buy from celebrity beauty brands, then please just stop obsessing over their appearance in the media and talking about them. Because, you know, the two things go hand in hand. And we, like I said earlier, we've created this monster as well. So I think we need to take a little bit of ownership for that too. Maybe a tiny bit of tough love there. But ultimately, as you said, and you're absolutely right, you. You can still be a success in this industry without having the platform and the privilege and the background in beauty. You've just got to be passionate about what you do. What do you think?

Yes, I totally agree. I think we need to focus on making this industry as a whole more sustainable, better for everybody involved, more diverse. And I think if we stop obsessing over every detail of celebrities lives and clicking on, you know, every detail of when it's published online, I think that would go a long way to stopping some of this sort of obsession that we have with celebrities. I think ultimately the beauty industry will carry on. It will always be a place where there is a wide diversity of people involved and lots of people in the industry changed careers to enter this industry, never having had any experience before. And I think that's one of the beauties of it because then people bring experience from other industries and, you know, we're building a better industry as a result of having that diversity. So I don't think we should be cross about people entering necessarily. I think we should be focusing more on how to create longevity with a brand, how to support those brands that are doing good things in the industry and that really do need our support right now in the tough economic climate that we're in.

I completely agree. Thank you so much, Anna. Great chat. Always a fascinating topic to cover and I'd love to hear what our listeners think as well. So hopefully we'll get some feedback on social media.

Thank you so much, Lorraine.

Thanks for joining me. See you again soon. I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Do you feel upset about all of these celebrities entering the beauty space? Maybe, or have you bought any of their products? What do you think? Please do come and leave us a comment on our social channels as both the Formula Botanica team and I love hearing from you, you. And if you want to hear more about some of the topics we covered today, please do delve back into the podcast archives. Go and listen to episode 91, in which I interview Formula Botanica graduate Sandra Velazquez of Nopaleira about why her mission matters so much behind her indie beauty brand. She's just raised $2.7 million for her brand. She's incredible. Go and listen to that interview or listen to episode 87. In which I interviewed Elsie and Dominika from Bybee Beauty, Also Formula Botanica graduates on their brand mission to become carbon negative. They're hugely successful. They've raised over $10 million so far. Or go and listen to episode 92 in which I set a challenge to you to formulate change in the beauty industry by creating a mission that's bigger than yourself. There's a wealth of information in our old episodes and I do encourage you to go back and listen to them. So thank you for joining Anna and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please do leave us a five star review so that other people can enjoy these conversations too. Make sure you subscribe to our podcasts on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever your favorite podcast app is, and stay tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanica at Formula Botanica on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter or LinkedIn and come and give me a follow at Lorraine Dharmaer on Instagram. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com and sign up for our free online formulation course today. Sam.