EP143. The brand creating mascara tubes to last 2,500 years

All of the plastic that humans have ever created is still here on Earth. Let that sink in for a minute. The toothbrush you used as a child, still here. Your first deodorant. Packaging, still here. The first cleanser you bought. It's still here. Now, of course, there is a chance that this plastic may have been recycled or repurposed or even incinerated. But in general, it's probably still here. After all, plastic typically takes more than 400 years to break down. And that's a problem when you consider just how much plastic packaging waste the beauty industry produces. And it's easy to think that our response to this crisis, where we are literally drowning in plastic, should be to work with packaging that won't still be here hundreds of years from now. We talk a lot nowadays, after all, about biodegradable packaging or no packaging at all for solid formulations. But imagine flipping that idea on its head and instead creating packaging with the intention of it lasting for millennia. Can you picture yourself handing down your mascara tube to your great grandchildren? After all, people hand down kitchenware and linen art, musical instruments, books, jewelry, recipes, dare I say it, even cosmetic formulations to the next generations. So why wouldn't we do that with our beauty packaging? Well, my guest today has come up with a model that embraces that entire ethos and it is fascinating. So settle in for an episode that will make you think twice about the packaging on your bathroom shelf. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy and use, make or sell your green beauty formulations. In my weekly episodes, I explore the sustainability of the beauty industry and encourage you to join me in changing the industry for the better. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallmeyer. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school, Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 180 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. And if you want to be the first person to know what's happening in green beauty, and I know you do, make sure you subscribe to this podcast in your favorite podcast app. So in today's episode, I'm joined by Shannon Goldberg, Founder and Chief Zero Waste Officer at Izzy Zero Waste Beauty. Now, I first discovered Izzy Zero Waste Beauty when I was a judge at this year's Blue Beauty Awards. And Shannon took home the top prize and I knew I wanted to invite her on the podcast ever since. Shannon founded Izzy with the goal of creating a premium zero waste beauty brand that checked all the boxes. Clean and cruelty free, performance driven, planet friendly and easy for the on the go professional who craves sustainable luxury and doesn't necessarily have the time to manage the logistics of reuse. Shannon's hope is that Izzy will challenge the beauty industry to try harder, work smarter, and make sustainability a business imperative. Hi Shannon, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?

Thank you, I'm good. How are you?

Yes, I am thrilled that you're here. I can't wait for this conversation. It's going to be so inspiring. So can you please introduce Izzy Zero Waste Beauty to our listeners? How does it all work?

Of course. So Izzy Zero Waste Beauty launched about a year and a half ago as the world's first premium certified carbon neutral and zero waste beauty brand. We are different in so many ways. Not only are we 100% recyclable, but all of our formulas are certified clean, cruelty free, vegan friendly and gluten free. So we really try to walk the walk and talk the talk with all of our products. We are a D2C brand, so you can only buy us online at this point. We have one time purchases as well as a membership program. The beauty of Izzy is that it arrives fresh at your doorstep every 90 days in a reusable mailer made from upcycled materials. It's prepaid, so you really don't have to do much work on your end. But just going into the product a little bit, we were actually inspired by the medical and dental industry. Something I realized in Beauty is that we sort of use the same materials over and over again. And part of the big problem that you and I both know is that in our world, we go through over 120 billion units of unrecyclable plastic a year in beauty. So change has to happen. Change has to happen now. And a lot of the sustainable options out there fall short. Unfortunately, most people don't realize that PCR plastic can only be recycled one time before it's ultimately chucked in landfills or waterways again. So when I said we were inspired by the medical industry, we chose to work with medical grade stainless steel. The reason is it can be washed and refilled more than 10,000 times. So if the circularity behind our brand is respected, then essentially this guy can be around for the next 2500 years. I could maybe hand this down to my great grandchild one day.

Fingers crossed. Absolutely amazing.

Yes. And it really does stand the test of time. I mean, there's, it's also the same reason that a lot of utensils are made from stainless steel and they're passed down from generation to generation. So just keeping with that idea, instead of PCR plastic, we use a plant based resin called Palm Eco V for all of our wands, wipers and brushes. And what's really cool about this material is that when we get our empty used products back, we can actually melt it down to its original resin and remold it and make it new again so even this piece of our product doesn't end up in the landfills. And then the last piece, another big question that I tend to get is how do you know for sure that your products are actually clean before they're received back? So again, just borrowing a process that's already been used forever in the medical industry, we put all of our products through a triple medical grade cleanse that removes all microbial and bacteria buildup and also gets rid of all of the excess goop in the packaging. So we really make sure to get that certificate that it is fully clean before it gets put back in circulation. And then the last piece about Izzy, I know it's a mouthful, but we wanted to challenge ourselves to shrink our imprint as much as possible. So we know that a lot of times components come from Asia. Your formula can come from maybe like Italy, then your products can be assembled and maybe New Jersey, and then they ship to the retailer and then to you. So rather than sending our products all the way around the world before you receive them, we shrunk our imprint to a 400 mile radius in the northeast of the United States. So you can run our entire supply chain on one tank of gas or two Tesla charges, as we like to say. And it's as easy as that. It's this beautiful circular supply chain. We keep everything really tight so we can react quickly and get the job done as fast as possible too.

That's incredible. I mean, the whole idea of having a two and a half thousand year old mascara tube sort of blows my mind. Actually. I can't even really wrap my head around that. But I love the vision you have. I guess the question that probably a lot of listeners have is how hard has it been to set up a refilling scheme for mascara as well as a mascara formulation that can be refilled and that meets all of your standards?

So setting the vision was probably step one is just figuring out, you know, there's this very normal supply chain that we're used to going through in beauty, but then we had to find a way to get the products back in circulation and reverse that supply chain and then close the loop and keep it going and going. So that was really the hardest thing, was to just sort of reimagine what a circular beauty supply chain could look like. The second piece is getting your vendors to agree to a process like this. So we had to look beyond beauty, really. In beauty, you don't see stainless steel components. So we had to go into the military sector, and we found a vendor, you know, that works for the government and produces everything from machine guns to swords to mascara. Now. So it's, you know, reimagining what a supply chain could really look like and then just really doing our homework. We actually have a sustainability consultant who actually came on board to help us with all of our material sourcing. So rather than using that PCR plastic, we found Palm Ecob, which has been amazing for us and a huge solve. And then the last piece is finding a filler that is willing to work with lower minimums. So normally in beauty, there's fill minimums of about 10,000 units. So it's really hard for small brands to sort of play in that arena. But what about a brand like us who wants to get those refills done quicker, sooner than possible, rather than waiting to collect back 10,000 pieces before we do our next refill? So we found an amazing vendor who's working on this, what I call a staircase plan that we do. We start at 500 units and then we work our way up there. But it is quite interesting. And everyone down from our fulfillment partner down to the lab, down to the vendors who are actually making the pieces, everyone is sort of on board. And that's the beauty of it, is because we all realize that change needs to happen and everyone is sort of holding hands to make that possible.

That's incredible. I've always said that change in the beauty industry, sustainable change, will happen thanks to the real entrepreneurs. And I think you absolutely fit the bill for that. It's incredible to hear how you went and sourced those stainless steel tubes. That's amazing. So you've made your refilling scheme part of a subscription for your customers, which I think is fantastic, because obviously it makes it much easier to sort of return and expect the next one to come in. So how has the subscription scheme been received so far?

It's good, you know, and thankfully, people have been doing it long before me, so we respected processes that are already in place. I personally, I Rely so heavily on subscriptions just to, you know, sort of breathe through my life and get it all done. So I mean everything from like the food delivery boxes to rent the Runway for fashion or even like my snacks or you know, clean eating from the Thrive market. I mean my whole life is automated at this point, which is great. So a lot of it was about borrowing ideas that are already in place. So we just mimicked things that people are already doing. And then in terms of the clean formula, it's the same thing. It's a lot of borrowing. And I think because people are already aware of these types of products, it doesn't feel that far fetched. But I will tell you this, people don't like to go out of their way to be more sustainable. I think you can count on people to recycle maybe, but doing anything more than that, I think we're still trying to figure out like what is our part. So making it ultra easy was very important for Izz. So literally the only work on your end is once you're done with your empty component is you simply put it in our reusable mailer. There's really not much work at all. There's no tape or cardboard involved, so prepaid, you stick the label back on the mail or walk it to your mailbox and it's off to the races. So it's pretty dummy proof, so to speak. You can't really mess it up.

Absolutely. I mean we've talked a lot about convenience here on the podcast and previous episodes and it sounds to me like you've got that one absolutely nailed. So on that note, what sort of return rates are you seeing and what's your target?

Man, I wish it could be 100% but that is so not where we're at. We're really at about a 75% return rate, which is not bad. I thought it was going to be more like 30, 40 in the beginning. So to be beyond the 50% mark is really all we can ask for in year one. And I think as the school circular economy and business model becomes more popular, I really do feel in the next five years we should be a well oiled machine and getting returns, you know, as a more regular thing.

Yeah, that's incredible. And I think 75% sounds pretty decent to be honest. How long have you been going now?

We're 18 months old. 18 months on the 22nd.

Amazing. And you've already got that sort of return rate. I suppose it's just a case of getting to know your customers even better and building up more loyalty. And do you find that you're attracting in customers based on the principles of the business as well, that people are sort of coming to you because of the fact that you embraced sustainability and circularity in such an amazing way?

I think so. Right now in the beauty industry, I personally felt like the clean story is still being told in terms of like clean ingredients, non toxic ingredients. And I do feel like the sustainability chain is sort of what's next. That said, I sort of feel like Izzy's for early adopters. It's not that we launched five years too soon, but there is a market for, it's a niche market and we know it's only going to grow from here. We also know like this is so, so much of what Gen Z cares about. That said, I'm just, I'm, I'm really hoping that it becomes more normalized in the next five years. Let's see.

I have no doubt that you will be one of the pioneers at that point and people will look back and go, only we'd set up five years ago with this sort of refilling scheme.

I hope so.

Yeah. So you've created an incredibly tight supply chain as well, which I find fascinating. So you said in the beginning, everything's produced and created in a 400 mile radius around your main facilities. How hard was that to achieve and what have been the main benefits?

I'll tell you this, it's not that hard because vendors are everywhere. I think it's more about, you know, if I look at my past lives and the other brands that I was on. A lot of times we do things because it's the way it's always been done and you're afraid to question decisions from upper management and supply chain or there's this world where we're all forced to chase the trends pretty fast, right? So then it's, it really becomes about how quick and how cheap can I launch this product? And a lot of times we have to bend and we have to source from Asia or, you know, from other places just to get the job done. So for us it was more just about. All right, this is the goal. The goal is to shrink the imprint as small as possible. Now, are there the right vendors within this mix close by? And the answer is yes. So it really is. Unfortunately, you have to break up with some of the vendors that you're used to working with, but it really, truly is for the greater good.

Wow. It must have been a big undertaking though. So I mean you have for instance, your manufacturing Facility, you have the refilling facility, you have. You work with vendors who clean the bottles and clean the stainless steel tubes and grind down the mascara ones. You have your ingredients. I mean, all of that within 400 miles.

Yeah. Yep, yep. And a lot of times we kill two brick with one stone. So it's really about four vendors right now. Some of the vendors can do two jobs at once. So it's really, it's really not that bad. Our entire supply chain really takes place between New York, New Jersey and Connecticut at this point.

Incredible. I'm sure there are a lot of beauty brands listening at the moment thinking, wow, you know, that must. If only we could all do that. And I mean, obviously you're saying it's achievable, and I think that's probably the main message for our listeners to take away as well. Because as you said, it's very easy to sort of go, I have to outsource it because it's cheaper over there. But that's not necessarily always the main driver, I suppose.

Exactly. It's easier. I always say this too. I'm not here to disparage any brand. It's a lot easier for someone like me as a startup to reinvent the wheel rather than a huge mega brand to turn the entire ship around. I mean, it's more money, it's time, it's resources, it's a lot. So I would say like, one step at a time, we can all stand to be more sustainable and. But it really is just like one product at a time, one launch at a time, one brand at a time. It's not going to happen. These big sweeping changes are not going to happen overnight. It really is just like one little change at once. We can get there.

Absolutely. I agree with you. So tell me how it works from a practical perspective. You're at your facility and you receive all of these mascara tubes back. What happens next? You collect them. Where do they go?

So step one is we collect them. We have to collect and sort them.

So.

So once upon a time, 12 months ago, when it was just a mascara, this whole process was much easier. But now we have five different products to collect and sort back. So what happens is we wait until we collect at least 500 pieces back. From there, the parts get disassembled. So the immediate first step is to take apart the one, the wiper and the brush and make sure that we grind and melt those resins down to the original resin. The next piece, once the, you know, the products come apart, is we send the bottles off to be cleaned from there. That's just a few days. And once they're certified clean, we then send them to the lab to be filled and then they just go right back to the warehouse to be shipped back to the customer.

Amazing. So how does the grinding process work? I'm fascinated by this. Do you guys do this yourself?

Yes. The brush is the only thing that actually gets grinded down the plant. The palm Ecobee just gets melted down into one virgin resin and then it gets sent to be remolded.

And does that happen at your facility?

It does. Yep. It happens at my co founder's facility. He's sort of the magician behind the curtains who understands how to do all this. I'd be lying if I said it was me. I sort of leave that in his very capable hands. He knows what he's doing. So I'm just like, do your thing. You are like the great wizard of Oz.

Well, I would hope it wouldn't be you because you have a brand to run anyway. That's amazing.

Yes. It's beyond my. My brain.

So what's your vision for your refilling scheme in the future? Where would you like to take this?

I think so. One thing we talked about from the very beginning is how can Izzy become more of a global brand? And the only way for that to happen is rather than me shipping my products out from New Jersey to other countries, the goal is to have hyper localized supply chains in every country. So Asia would have its own is a 400 mile radius. Same thing for Europe. And that's something we would really, really love to do. In terms of crazy product expansion, that's never been our goal. We know who our customer is. She. She's someone who is anywhere between 35 and 65 years old. She's a lot like maybe you or I, who is a parent who needs, you know, automation from the brands that she loves and she trusts. So she's also not someone who's using big, fancy, sparkly eyeshadow palettes. She's someone who uses a very minimalistic collection. So in terms of how we launch and just making sure that we can check every single box, every single launch. The idea is to launch very pragmatically, you know, slowing down and launching products very mindfully. So not huge product expansions with multiple shades. That's never going to be the goal. It's just slowing down and launching products correctly.

I love the idea of having sort of regional hubs around the world because you're right. I mean, beauty brands try and Expand really quickly, and then shipping obviously becomes this big thing. I interviewed some of our graduates by Bee Beauty on the podcast, gosh, I think over a year ago, and they were saying, you know, if we didn't have to take the carbon footprint into account for our shipping, we'd be fine. But actually, the shipping component is the hardest part. But if you have those localized hubs, I suppose you don't have that to deal with, which would be incredible. When do you foresee that maybe happening?

We are in this really fun and not so fun process of fundraising. And it's really like the idea is there, the goal is there, we know it needs to happen. So it really is about raising the proper funds in order to make that happen. Izzy in itself is such an expensive brand to produce. As you can imagine, these tubes cost way more than plastic or glass tubes that we're used to working with. So it really is about getting the funding in place in order to do this. It's. It's always, I guess it's always about time and money in this business. Right? So it really is. You know, hopefully in the next five years, we can make that happen.

So I suppose one of my final questions then is about the beauty industry as a whole, because obviously you have a background in beauty. You've now been running your own brand for 18 months. What would you like to see the beauty industry change in order to become more sustainable and more circular? Moving beyond just Izzy, Zero waste, but looking at the entire industry.

Wow, that's such a big question. Such a good question. You know, going back to my earlier point, I don't know if there's a world in which we can see those big, sweeping overnight changes. I don't think that's going to happen. And I'm claiming to be perfect in any way, but I know that we're making really big changes in the industry and we're asking a lot of the industry. So even, you know, a perfect world for me. I always say this. When it comes to Izzy, there are no sacred cows. Borrow my ideas, do what we're doing. It's all for the greater good. Right? You know, people who are in a position of power to drive meaningful change, they should be. If you are sitting on top, you should be making these decisions. So overall, even if, let's pretend a big makeup house uses the palm ecobee resin that we work with and melts them down and regrow like, awesome, or if someone can start, you know, deep diving more into refills or just understanding, you know, making sustainability a business imperative rather than a nice to have all of these little things add up to really big changes. And it really is little by little, day by day changes. And I think we all sort of have to humble ourselves and sort of admit out loud most of us aren't sustainability experts. Most of us have beauty backgrounds or fashion backgrounds and this isn't what we know. So don't be afraid to admit that you don't know what you're talking about and you don't know what you're doing. It's the first thing I say is I was a complete novice to this space until I entered it, but once you learn the information, you can't unknow it. And the numbers, the statistics are devastating. So it really is just getting curious and taking step one. That's all you can really ask of people is to take step one, get curious and the rest will unfold.

Well, you may have been a novice when you started, but you certainly have embedded sustainability at the very core of what you do, which I think makes you an expert moving forward. And what you've created here is absolutely amazing. I love the whole concept and I know that our listeners will too. So if people want to find out more about you and about Izzy zero waste Beauty or if they want to come and buy your lovely mascaras and other products, where can they do say? Sure.

So head on over to our website which is your izzy.com and I would love to offer a discount for your listeners as well. Izzy FF20 will give you 20% off across the entire website. So whether it's a one time purchase or a membership, I'd love for you guys to try Izzy.

Oh and I hope I get to try it one day as well. Thank you so much Shannon. It's been really lovely chatting to you today.

Same to you. Thank you so much.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Do you also immediately want to go and buy some Izzy mascara just to see the tube? Because I know I do. And how would you feel about passing your cosmetic packaging down the generations? It's a fascinating concept. So please do come and leave us a comment on our social channels as both the Formula Botanica team and I love hearing from you and if you want to hear more about some of the topics we've covered, please do delve back into the podcast archives. Go and listen to episode 69 in which Anna Green and I unpick the really complicated topic of biodegradable beauty in quite some detail. Simplify it for you. Well, listen to episode 109 where I interview Tara Pelletier, founder of Meow Meow, Tweet about their refilling scheme or episode 126 in which I ask the question, are we ready for Refillable Beauty? There's a wealth of information in our old episodes and I do encourage you to go back and listen to them. Thank you for joining Shannon and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I really hope you enjoyed it and if you did, please do leave us a five star review so that other people can enjoy the subscribe these conversations too. Make sure you subscribe to other podcasts on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever your favorite podcast app is and stay tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanicaormula Botanica on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter or LinkedIn and come and give me a follow at Lorraine Dalmare on Instagram. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com and sign up for our free online formulation course today. Sam.