EP16. Beginner's Guide to Branding a Beauty Business

Hello and welcome to the Formula Botanica Green Beauty Conversations podcast. My name is Gemma and I'm the business and relationship manager at Formula Botanica. If you want to find out a little bit more about our award winning online courses, you can check us out over at www.formulabotanica.com. this is our second part in a series on branding and we're chatting to Brianna from Wellness Stories, and she gives us some really helpful exercises, tips and advice on things that you can do to really think about your branding and how you want to move forward. And this episode comes with some really useful workbooks that you can download and I really hope that you enjoy it. Hi and welcome, Brianna.

Hi, Jama.

So we talked a little bit about branding in our previous episode, which is all about branding 101. And we've got the lovely Brianna joining us for this episode to talk about branding in a lot more depth, really? And she's got some great exercises to help you out, which we'll cover a bit further along in this podcast. So before we started recording and we're just having a little chat, Brianna was telling me about how she likes to think about branding in kind of two distinct parts, although they're relatable. So I was wondering if you could start explaining a little bit about that for our listeners.

Yeah, absolutely. So, and this is something that I feel gets pretty confused and there's terms that kind of get thrown around very loosely. But I like to think of branding in these two parts. First, it's your foundation, which is your brand identity. And that is really more conceptual. It's more about you and what makes you unique and your strengths and your audience, your ideal audience, what sort of values do you share? And basically what your why is and your motive, all of that sort of stuff is your, your brand identity. It's kind of like the personality of your brand. And the other part is really your, just what you look like and it's your fonts and your colors. And what a lot of people think of as a brand is really, you know, your logo. But your brand is not just your logo. Your brand is a set of all of these different visuals and how they actually express your personality of your brand.

Great. So we were talking a lot about communication and how you want to kind of bring yourself across. And you said had some really useful analogies. So I just wanted to run through those a little bit because I think it would really help people understand what you meant in your previous statements.

Yeah, sure. So we were talking about how your brand, really, the visual aspects of your brand is sending a message always. It's really a form of communication. So a lot of people think, oh, well, you know, nice branding, you know, that'd be nice to have. You know, it's a nice thing to have. But really, it's absolutely essential that your visual aspect of your brand really relays your message and reflects the quality of your products. So if you have a very high quality product that you're selling at a high price point, but you pass it in really budget packaging, then people who are looking at your product don't even know about how high of a quality of product you have. They're just looking at it and seeing budget packaging. So they're actually assuming that your product is also a budget product. So a really good way to look at this is every single thing that you put out there about your brand, every visual is really a form of communication. So, so it's how are you expressing your brand? How are you expressing the quality of your product? So if you were to write a letter, for instance, to your clients, you wouldn't start with, oh, hey, dude, what's up? Or use some sort of slang terms. You would want to make sure that you're talking with the voice of your brand or the personality of your brand very nicely. How you want your clients to perceive you as professional. And it's the same. Same as when you're actually packaging your product or putting anything out on social media or on your website. You want it to look very professional. So how are you expressing and communicating with your clients? Because honestly, they are getting messages instantly through visuals, and that's the fastest way to actually be sending messages. So if you're putting a photo out there, for instance, that looks like just a snapshot and a quality that you would actually put into your family album, that's not really what people are going to look at and think, oh, this is a professional product, this is a professional company. You really need professional photos. So another thing that we talked about was if you're styling your home versus your office, so that's a very visual thing and it really creates a feeling. So if you're in your home space, you might have furniture that's mismatched, or, you know, there might be a photo on the wall that's a little bit crooked, or you family portraits on your wall, but that wouldn't be appropriate for your office space. Your office space, you want everything to match. You want to create a special certain type of feeling. If you are, for instance, a wellness practitioner, you might want to create A really calm feeling. And you do that through the colors on the wall and how things are set up. For instance, how the furniture is arranged. Maybe you use some feng shui or whatnot. And it's the same, same thing, that same sort of visual appearance that translates through your visuals on your website, on your product packaging and whatnot. It's all that visual aspect of your branding. What sort of feeling are you wanting to relay? And you want to make sure that it's professional.

So I think the key message here is invest, make, make the investment. It will be worthwhile.

Yes, absolutely. And I really do stress, I feel like so many people think that, oh, that's something you. Branding, quality branding or hiring a brand professional. That's something that I'll do eventually when things get off the ground. But that's very much a reason why things may not get off the ground, is that you're not actually making that an essential necessity. I mean, if you want to get your products into department stores, for instance, they're not ever going to allow a product on their shelf that looks amateur or that looks just home done or diy. They're going to have certain levels and standards for the way their products are presented and the products they choose to have on their shelves. So you've got to also think about, okay, what are the venues that I actually want to get into, how do I want to position myself in the marketplace, and what sort of standards do I need to meet with my packaging, with the visuals that I'm putting out, the photography that I am putting out and delivering to them to use in their catalogs or their magazines? What sort of level do I need to get to? And that's what you need to make sure that you're investing in.

Great advice. So the reason why we're doing this series and that we did our webinar before together is because branding and imagery is one of the things that we get the most questions about. And I know that a lot of people struggle to conceptualize and figure out what works and what doesn't. And Rob, in our previous episode gave us some great starting points to think about, but Brianna is going to talk us through some exercises that I think everybody should use, if I'm honest, when they are starting to think about their brand. So should we start with the first one and probably my, my favorite one, the mood word exercise.

Yes, absolutely. So, and this is when you're at the point that you are transitioning from your brand identity and the concept and the personality of your brand to your brand image, so all the visuals that you are going to be displaying to represent and send those messages out. So I am not sure if I made this clear at the beginning, so I just definitely want to make sure I make this clear. Your brand image, when you're going to choose fonts and colors, and all of that really should not be done until you establish your brand identity. You really get to the heart of who you are, what makes you unique, what your values are, who your ideal clients are, and how you can connect those values and just how you want to really represent your brand through your overall personality. So once you really dive into that, and I do have some helpful kind of prompts in the workbook to really get into your brand identity, then you can finally transition and all of that will be used to help you choose your fonts and your colors, because those fonts and your colors are going to express all of that brand identity stuff. So the mood word exercise is absolutely my favorite exercise and it's so valuable. So if you ever find yourself feeling very scattered, like, oh, I really like this stuff, like these style of fonts and, and this sort of look and these different colors, and I can't figure out what's best for me. This really helps you out because a lot of times when you're going in to work with a professional brand designer, they're going to ask you what the mood is, what the overall mood is that you want for your brand. And it's really interesting because I heard this, someone said this the other week. She said, I'm working with this professional brand designer. And the designer asked me, what's the mood that you want for your business? How do I figure that out? And so it was really interesting because a really good brand designer will help you figure this out, but it's really helpful and it's very valuable if you can present and go to the table with them with an idea of what you want for this. So the exercise is to think about how do you want people to feel when they interact with your brand? And really, a memorable brand and a successful brand really connects with their clients on emotions. So really figuring out, okay, what is my ideal customer struggling with? What are her values? And how does my product really fit in to make her life easier or better or enrich her life? And then thinking about, okay, if these are her struggles, how do I want to make her feel instantly when she visits my website for the first time or when she sees my products on the shelves, what sort of feeling do I want to relay? So come up with five words that really describes the feeling that you want her or him to have when she interacts with your brand. And those five words will really help you when you're weaving together your visuals, when you're thinking about, okay, you know, what's my copy going to sound like? How am I going to speak to this person? What sort of colors should I choose? And overall, just how to stay cohesive with your brand.

So just to let everybody know is that these exercises that we're talking about with Brianna are all packaged up nice and neatly for you in a downloadable workbook, which you will be able to find in the show notes accompanying this episode. So don't panic. You don't have to do it all by yourself. You will have a reference guide to use. And let's talk about some words that might come up. I mean, you know, for instance, you're a. Well, in the wellness industry. I mean, you know, what are some useful words that people might be thinking about?

Yeah. So, and this is really great because these words can be so unique and they can be very. You can choose words that are very different from each other and then they come together. It creates such a unique brand. So some of these words might be organic, soothed, edgy, sexy. There's so many. Empowered, so many. Any sort of very descriptive words could even be playful or youthful. So if you think of these words, you think, okay, they're bringing a very different picture to my mind. And you can tell then how these words, whatever words you choose, are going to really help guide you in the branding process and choosing all of your branding elements. Because if you have the word sexy versus the word youthful or, you know, playful, they're going to have very different, you know, colors and very different fonts that are going to fit these. So these are very. Yes, they're very helpful words.

Yeah. And they can, I guess they can help inform consistency, which is one of the things we discussed in the previous episode. You know, be consistent. And I guess if you have, say, five keywords, those words will just be everywhere in, you know, the imagery, the words. Like you said, it would just bring a consistent message. So if you can establish these first, then you would probably feel less scattered, right?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it's just. I mean, it really. It just really gives you a very nice, solid visual and it really helps you to describe your brand as well. So if you were to use the word masculine versus feminine, you know, it's really describing your brand and just helping to guide you along the way through all of it. Definitely helps you feel less scattered.

So if you've sort of done the mood word exercise and you're feeling quite okay, what are some other exercises that you could move on to?

Okay, so the other exercise that I share in the workbook is a really fun one because I feel like sometimes branding or the term branding can feel very scary or confusing and people can't really grasp, okay, what is this? How do I transform this idea of my brand into visuals? So, as I mentioned that there's the brand identity, which is more like your personality, and then there is more of your brand visuals. This exercise is really fun to help combine them. Just ask yourself, if your brand was a party, what kind of a party would it be? And I really like it because it's a fun exercise to do, and it helps you to look at your brand in a very different way. So think about what type of a venue would it be hosted at? Who would be invited? What type of music would be playing? What would your invitations be like? What sort of material would they print it on? What sort of paper or other words? And what types of refreshments would you be serving? You know, just really get into the details, and it helps you to really visualize your product and your brand in a whole new way. And for me, you know, you could. You might have a very luxurious party, and it's in a loft somewhere in the city. And it also helps you to really give an idea of, okay, these are my types of clients that I'm really, you know, targeting, and the types of people who I'm going after and I'm marketing to. You know, really ask yourself, who are you inviting? Maybe you're inviting moms and their children, or maybe you're inviting some, you know, young, hip city executives. There's very. It really paints a very, very different picture, and it really just helps you to just get a much better understanding of, okay, this is what branding is about. It's about creating, you know, the communication and, and figuring out who are the people and. And what exactly am I offering to them?

And I suppose you can get a really good, you know, picture in your mind of this. If my packaging was then on a shelf or my product was on a shelf, how. How is that relaying what my party feels like? Yes.

Yeah, I love that. Yes. And another way, you know, this is another very similar exercise. You can also ask yourself, if my brand was a person, what type of person would it be? And what. What would she be wearing? What brands would she be wearing? Where would she be shopping? You know all of that sort of stuff. So that's another exercise that's very similar, but it'll still give you just a different sort of perspective.

And I think this is, that exercise is interesting for people who are struggling to figure out what their target market would be. Because I guess once you've worked on the mood, the mood word exercise, and then you've worked on your party exercise or your person exercise, whichever one you choose, you're gonna get a much clearer idea, like you said, about who your target audience might be. And there's some people who figure that out beforehand and that's fine.

And it can be, you know, it's also something that I feel like as our products are evolving and we are evolving because branding is not stagnant and businesses are not stagnant, products are not stagnant. We're always changing. And so who you are targeting can become more clear as you are trans, you know, evolving and your products are changing. And sometimes you think, oh, these are the people that I'm targeting. I know that happened with my business. I thought, okay, this is the type of person that I'm targeting. But I started attracting a totally different crowd. And so I realized, oh my gosh, okay, that's actually not my target market, this is my target market. Or it's a combination of both of them. So it's, it's kind of just figuring it out as you go.

I think as well it's worth saying here that I would say take your time with these exercises because you want to approach it like you are throwing an actual party. Get a whole massive piece of cardboard out, map it all out, because it's going to give you a lot of information, I think moving forward. And if you can get these things right from the start, it's going to save you a lot of time and effort, I think.

Yes, absolutely. And I also think that especially with a product based business, thinking about the things that are tangible in these exercises are really going to be important and helpful as well. So just like talking about the invitations, what are they looking like? What sort of paper? What's the paper feel like? What color is the paper? Just really thinking about that sort of stuff because you're going to be moving into choosing the packaging for your products and every single piece of your packaging makes a difference. It's so important. It's not just, oh, I'll just choose this and it's fine because it's the cheapest option. It's really, you have to put so much thought into it. It's such an art. And at the end, you have this beautiful product that is. It is your brand identity, it is your font, it is your color, it is, you know, the bottle that you're packaging the product in, and it's the box or what, whatever you're actually packaging the bottle in. All of that is such a beautiful work of art that really is expressing something about you and your business and your values and your clients, really.

And I guess you can think of, if you spend a lot of time constructing this invitation, it's going to be like your packaging would be representative of that invitation. So someone is invited to then look at your product. And, you know, if you go into the detail of what does it feel like, how does it arrive? I mean, if you Google party invitations, you're going to get loads and loads and loads of different examples just there. And you can start narrowing it down from there. I mean, do you want the sort of invitation, you know, where someone arrives in a box and pops out? I mean, obviously that's a, you know, an extreme example of someone who's really invested a lot of time and money in their invitations, or do you want to go kind of, like sleek and, you know, just with, like, a disc? I once got a party invitation. It was just a small, like, Perspex disc. And it does make you think, oh, I want to go to that party. You know, it is. So in terms of exercises, are there any other things that people could be doing?

Those are my big exercises that I'm sharing in the workbook, and I think those are already just like you said, exercises that you're going to want to spend a lot of time on. And those are just very helpful for, as I mentioned, transitioning and taking your brand personality or identity and really turning it into your brand image. And then when you're feeling like, okay, I'm getting the hang of this, this isn't making a lot of sense, then you can actually transition more so into choosing your visuals.

Okay.

And I have this in the workbook for you so you can follow along. But the first thing that I would recommend doing, once you really have your mood words and you have this idea of, okay, this is what the feeling of my brand is going to be. Because, remember, we always want to approach our branding as though we want to create a feeling and an emotional experience for our clients, that's really what makes you memorable and what makes you stand out. So once you do that, you can actually start creating sort of a vision board or a mood board, and you can do that. On Pinterest. And so I just go in and I create a secret board and then I start researching. I start actually using my mood words and I'll type them into the search bar and I might add something on the end like photo or design. So if my mood word is edgy, I do edgy photo or edgy design. And then just start seeing what comes up and just start collecting any of the images that really stand out and make me feel like, okay, this feels kind of like what I'm envisioning for my brand. And just start collecting them freestyle. Don't filter it at all into your secret board. And once you get around 40 photos or so, you can just stop, take a look and just feel like, okay, is this feeling good? And then you start actually filtering it and whittling it down until you have around eight to 10 photos. And this process is not something that you should do really fast either. The entire branding process is really a time commitment that you're going to want to take and really sit with for a while and take your time. Because once you whittle down to eight photos, you're going to want to walk away and come back and really feel like, okay, am I absolutely in love with the feel of these photos together? Do they really embody my five mood words? Do they really create that balance? And these are photos, you know, you could be collecting logos or you could be collecting color palettes, or it could just be just an image or a photograph. Anything goes, really, that you're collecting on these boards. So finally, once you get down to your eight photos, then that is really going to be the basis of what your visual image is going to be based on. So you can actually use it to help guide you through choosing your fonts and your colors and all of that sort of stuff. So that is really the first step in the more, you know, visual aspect of choosing your branding.

And I know this is something we've talked about as well on other occasions, and it's something that we get asked a lot as well, is. So I've gotten to this point now. When do I start working with other people? When do I get someone on board to help me with this stuff? I mean, how far can people go by themselves?

Yeah. So all of the exercises that I have talked about here are really great for you to do from the get go. It's just really great exercises for you to really dig deeper and figure out more about, okay, what am I really going for? And once you get to the point, I really, it's Very different for everyone. I feel like when you're ready to actually hire a professional, because the professional can help you, a really good professional can help you with all of this. Some of the branding professionals actually just expect you to come to them with an idea and they're just gonna hash it out. And I do want to say that one common mistake that I see made is that a lot of people launch their business and they immediately go into having a logo design, and they, this is my brand. So the brand, the logo is not your brand. And in fact, it should really be put off until you have all of these other things established. You know your branding identity and you know your branding image, what types of colors and fonts. So, and if you have already gone through. If you're listening to this and you have already gone in and had your logo designed and you're feeling like, oh, no, I'm doing this out of order, it's totally okay. Because if you're not at the point where, okay, you've got all your branding, you've got your visual identity, you've got all your packaging and your logo, and it is on par and it's ready to hit the shelves, it's okay to go in and revisit these things and then decide, okay, I'm at the point that I'm ready to really take the next step and bring my products to a whole new level and start putting it out there and getting on the shelves and just go, it's okay now where you're at, to go ahead and hire a professional designer. And if you're just starting out, I would say a lot of times we're in kind of that egg stage where we're trying to figure out, okay, what is going to be my big product, what's going to be the product that I'm going to take to the market. And a lot of people just start with one product. And I like to use, actually, Schmidt's deodorant. I don't know if you know Schmidt's. It's a natural deodorant. And it's actually, the designer is here in Portland, Oregon. So I watched her go from, you know, she was out there in doing, like, little craft shows, giving out samples of her deodorant. She did not have her branding down. She was still testing out the market. Then she figured out, okay, I've got a really good product, this deodorant. A lot of people have tried it, a lot of people love it. I'm ready to take this big. I'm ready to actually get this onto the shelves of department stores and be a mainstream product alongside all the toxic deodorants that are out there. So she knew that she needed to up level her branding and her packaging and make it look like the quality of the other products that were on the shelves. That's the point that she decided, okay, I'm going to hire a brand designer or whatnot. She really got serious about her packaging. And so I think that's a really good example of your question. How do I know when it's time to work with and hire a professional brand designer? I think that is your answer once you've tested out your product. Because I know that when we're in the starter phase, we're not ready to invest thousands of dollars in professional branding. And it's really, if you're still in the testing phases of your product, you're not sure exactly which one's going to take off. It's not quite time for you to invest in professional branding and you can actually go through and do this on your own or you could go and hire a budget branding designer. For instance, on Etsy you can get find really decent logo designers on Etsy. So it's really important from the get go that you have something that is least is passable. But when you're ready to actually get your product out there in whole new ways and go big, then you're definitely going to want to work with a professional designer. And we had actually talked about before joining this podcast, we were chatting and I used Herbivore as an example. And Herbivore is a natural, more organic skincare company that started up in Seattle, so that's pretty close to me. And they had started testing out, selling their products on Etsy, which is a very common place to start. They realized that they were just, you know, using like the typical Kraft paper looking packaging and very handmade looking packaging. They were quickly just having to compete with everyone else on Etsy because they were all doing the same thing and looking exactly the same. So they knew that they needed to leverage themselves through their packaging and their branding. And so that's when they decided, okay, I've been on Etsy, I've been doing pretty well. I know I've got a solid foundation for my products. These are awesome products. And then they had to think about where did they want to actually offer their products? How did they want to leverage themselves in the market? And they knew that they wanted to get into higher end apartment stores like Nordstrom. So they decided we've Got to come up with packaging that's totally unique, that helps us stand out and is the quality that is going to actually be accepted in stores like Nordstrom. So that's when they decided to do their packaging and really invest. And I know it's a, it's a duo, so they were very lucky actually. One of the, the co owners had a background in design so he actually designed their packaging. But they chose a very simple design for their packaging and their logo and everything. It's very, very simplistic. So it really represents the clean, simplistic products that they offer. But they also wanted to really market to people who would purchase higher end products who were willing to invest in their products and were more maybe modern and kind of forward thinking people, I guess. And so they made sure that, you know, they were using these beautiful glass jars and everything. All their packaging, even their boxes are, they're just white boxes, but they have this very satiny feel that feels a little luxurious. So they really combined this very simplistic, clean sort of look with the little hints of luxury. And it's really in every single detail in their products is just so beautiful. So that's how they leverage themselves. And they ended up getting into a really hip department store here and then they just ended up going from there.

And I think that's a really good example of how two like different mood words like simplistic but luxury could work together in a way you might not have expected.

Yeah, exactly. That's what's so brilliant about that exercise. You really see how, okay, you know, it seems like it would be so opposite, but you can really definitely differentiate yourself with these words that are so different from each other.

And I think one thing I just wanted to mention from our experience running Formula Botanica is that these exercises are incredibly useful because if you do them yourself and you work through them, you can end up putting together a portfolio and a branding document. So we actually have a kind of a PDF document that outlines our philosophy and has all of our colors and our fonts and our logos. So it means that when you want to work with someone, so say your business takes off and things are going well and someone like Brianna contacts you and says, hey guys, do you want to work together? You have a document that you can send to someone and say, yeah, I do want to work together. These are our branding guidelines. You know, we, you know, we want to, we want to make an affiliate package with you or something and then it gives the other person, even if they haven't tried your products, Necessarily so. I'm talking about, like, you know, working with other businesses. It gives them a clear idea of who you are.

Yes. It's so true. And it also maintains the quality of your appearance anywhere across the board. So wherever your brand is represented, it's represented in the way that you want it to be represented. Which is so important.

It is so, so important. And I think that, you know, having these documents put together. So we put together a branding document and then a media kit as well that complements that branding document. And it gives people information about. Yeah. Your media statistics. And it's something we could maybe cover in another podcast if people are interested. But it means that when someone contacts you and wants to work with you, you're able to easily send this information over to them. And it gives a really good digestible format for them to understand who you are and what you're about. And it gives a really professional vibe. And I think that that is. It's useful doing. It's useful having. It's useful taking the time to compile it and have it as a really good resource for your business.

Yeah. And ultimately it ends up saving you so much time when you're not. There's something about, you know, when a business is just starting out, and there's. I feel like there's this mindset for a lot of people who are starting out, like they just can't afford things. They've got to do anything on the cheap and cut corners and all of this. And one of the major things that seems to be cut and which shouldn't be is branding and figuring out all your fonts and your colors. And it's so interesting because if you don't figure that out and you're constantly reinventing your brand, every time you go to post something or, you know, you have a new product and now you're creating a totally new look and you're choosing new fonts and new colors. It just takes so much time. And you're really hurting yourself by not developing that brand recognition, which is developed through being consistent with your look and really sending this strong message. And there was a quote that I had put into the workbook, actually, and it was about how if you want to be a successful brand, develop a lifestyle and your audience will follow. So people really love to feel like they're a part of something when they buy your products. So with Herbivore, you know, every time I have some of their products and every time I go into my bathroom and I open up my medicine cabinet and I see those products, it makes me feel like, oh, I've got this beautiful upscale product. It's so gorgeous. I feel so modern, I feel so hip and yet it's so organic and it's just a high quality product. So it's giving me this feeling, like this quality feeling of this lifestyle. I don't even live in a loft or anything like that, but I kind of feel loft feeling when I look at these products and I use these products. And that's something that, you know, develops through consistency and being very clear on what is this message that you want to be sending, what is this lifestyle that you want to actually be creating for people. And again, it gets back to creating a feeling and creating, connecting on emotion through your product. So it's not just about the product. And another good example of this is with photography, there are totally different feels with different types of photos. For instance, if you are going to have a photo of a simple product in a magazine, you might want to just have photo of your product alone with white backdrop to just highlight the product. But if you're on a platform, for instance, like on Instagram, you might end up, you know, just putting a photo of your product. It doesn't create that feeling for people that people are looking for on Instagram. And so they're really looking for a feeling and a lifestyle when they're following feedback. So they prefer a photo that is actually maybe a lifestyle photo of your product grouped together with some sort of a lifestyle scene. Maybe it's in a bedroom and the sheets are all disheveled and you've got someone's feet in the photo and a bottle of body butter there and a book that's open. It's like a beautiful lifestyle scene that pulls you in. So there are different ways to create this sort of lifestyle and this sort of emotional connection for your audience. It's all through branding and connected with marketing. And it's all so important. And you just really have to know, okay, on different platforms, what's appropriate and how do I want to actually be representing my brand and connecting with my clients.

And you can do that quite easily by going into Google and searching what are people looking for when they look through Instagram? And there is hosts, because I was looking at them recently. Hosts of articles about social media trends, where things are going, what people are looking for on the different platforms. I mean, there is just so many you can choose from and it can really help you, like Brianna said, communicate what your brand is about in a few simple shots. And it's important from the business aspect as well in terms of people that you want to form relationships with. Because, for example, I get emails every day from people saying, hey, we want to work with you. Or hey, do you want to do an interview with me? Or hey, I'd like to do this for you. And I often come back and say, okay, first thing I want to know what are all your social media handles? Secondly, all your website details. And thirdly, do you have a branding pack, a media pack or an affiliate pack? And it's surprising how many people a don't include their social media handles and websites in an initial email or direct you to them and then won't have any packs put together. So it then I am unable to get a feel for who they are, what they're about and if they're going to fit with our ethos and if we can work with them. So I think, you know, you obviously you're wanting to sell products and you're wanting to create something for your customer, which is great. But then there's also the other, the other angle, the business to business angle, which I think sometimes people forget about it a little bit because there are loads of people we want to work with. But if I can't get who you are.

Yeah, yeah. I think that you are spot on in terms of what differentiates a successful brand from someone who's constantly, just always in that perpetual state of trying to get things off the ground. Willingness to invest in your brand and your product and the dedication. Because I feel like, you know, someone who's constantly in the perpetual state of trying to get off the ground, they're not dedicated enough and willing to actually invest in what it takes to bring your product and your brand to that next level, to that professional level, to what's required really, in order to work with these companies that could actually make your product go viral, bring it into a whole new marketplace.

And I think we'll probably leave it there for this episode and it's definitely something for you guys to think about and think, yeah, people who I want to work with, they could make my product go viral. What am I communicating about myself when I get in touch with them? So I just want to say a massive thank you to Brianna for joining us.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Gemma.

And I hope that everyone enjoys the worksheets and as usual, if you've got any feedback, get in touch. Thank you, Brianna.

Thanks, Gemma.

I just wanted to say thank you again to Brianna for joining us and for providing some really helpful exercises. Irene, enjoyed the one about thinking about your brand as a party. I hope that you found it useful as well. And as usual, you can give us any feedback over@helloormulabotanica.com if you want to find out a little bit more about our courses and what we offer, you can check out our website, formulabotanica.com and if you want to join in on the conversation, come and join us on Facebook at the Skincare Entrepreneur Mastermind Group. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at formulabotanica. Com. Once again, thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us and thanks for your continued support. Bye.